Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

morganv · February 2004

My husband and i might be from the country, but we are not stupid. we've run the values through every conceivable test and found that the difference between chevy, ford, and dodge is miniscule once you figure in that the difference is in the price paid. for the dakota, its actually much better than the ranger or the s10 trucks and they are a heck of a lot more truck!

m bowke, you sound like a car salesman or a dodge hater. probably the latter since a car salesman would know that the values between the trucks are based on retail values. besides, ive run a business for over 25 years and i've picked up a little knowledge along the way. We always knew there were a lot of dodge haters out there (not so much in the country, but the cities) and that men, especially, have this thing about which truck is better and like to cut each other's machinery down. in horses its testosterone. I think the same thing applies, especially to big boys toys. My husband and i really dont care what name is on the truck. we stuck it out with ford because we at one time thought they made a good product. Well, we paid the price there too. so now someone else will get our business. We like the dodges at lot and have been real surprized that neither one has had to back to the dealer yet. with our fords it was always after the first month or so. even if the ford was worth $500 more than the dodge we wouldve spent half that much in gas by now just shuttling it back and forth for service!

bowke28 · February 2004

ive been selling cars for years, and my point was about trade-in values, which have nothing to do with retail value. like i said, "wait till you try to TRADE it..."

morganv · February 2004

You are a car salesman?!

m bowke, i think you missed my point. trade-in values are just about directly proportional to the retail values. the more you spend, the more youll get back. around here the dodges have been the premuim truck in the last few years and there are few used ones to find. like i said in my earlier post, after 6 years and 150,000 miles i think the resale question is moot, anyways. when we traded out last ford off, there were chevy people saying the same thing. so we asked a friend in the used car business (not a new car dealer) and he said theres almost no difference. aNd when we checked the dodges that were for sale, they had higher prices than the fords around here. so i know youre not right on this. ive done my homework. Besides, at this point i'm not sure it would matter to us. my husbands so angry that he's considering trading the ford tractors we have, although im going to have to rein him in on that one, i think.

bowke28 · February 2004

"the more you spend, the more youll get back"

try this one instead...

the more you spend, the more you lose.

vehicles depreciate by percentages, so if you buy a $10k car, you will lose about $5000 in the first 3 years (retail). but if you buy a $30k car, you will lose about $15k in the same amount of time. yes, you get $10k more for the $30k car, but you are jumping over a dollar to get to a dime, my friend.

morganv · February 2004

Let me see, "the more you spend, the more you lose". So we bought a Dodge that had a retail almost $2000 less than a comparable ford, and that's about what we wouldve had to spend if we bought a ford. yet youre trying to tell me that the dodge is less valuable at trade in (you didn't say by howmuch), but then you say that the more i wouldve spent the more i wouldve lost. You know, i do believe you are a car saleman!

bowke28 · February 2004

by your logic, the ford DOES have better resale since it cost more. you are assuming that depreciation is in fixed dollars. you are mistaken. it is by percentage. this falsehood is perpetuated by idiot salesmen who say:

"yup, the sunroof makes it worth more at trade-in"

this is a tool used by morons to get you to buy what is in front of you instead of what you want. if you want a sunroof but they dont have a vehicle with one, they say "if you get this one, you save THOUSANDS!!!"

but if you dont want one, and they have one with a sunroof, it becomes "you will get your money back at resale"

unfortunately, you have fallen for this trickery. you arent the first and you wont be the last either.

now...dealing with your dodge/ford comparison, you are right. resale is about equal. however...my comment was in relation to the titan, which is what this board is about.

jcmdie · February 2004

Resale value is based on the amount the vehicle reallistally was bought for, the current demand for the vehicle (or lack of demand), and its perceived value to the pool of potential customers. I guess that bowke doesn't like Dodges and don't want them on HIS lot.

bowke28 · February 2004

i run away when 1-3 year old dodges drive up. 90% are buried more than $3k. fords are not much better, but neither is as good as nissan.

nvbanker · February 2004

Back on the topic a little more, I have been looking at, and following the new F-150 a lot lately - and I just can't get into the look. I don't think they improved it, and I wasn't crazy about the old one. I like the looks of the F-250 + much better, and better than about anybody's, except maybe the new Dodge. But I'm not convinced on the Dodge yet. So, onto the Titan? Don't care much for the looks of it either - but it's no worse than the F-150.

keanec · February 2004

I gotta agree on your comment about the "look" of the F-150. IMHO, I think the old one looked better. The small windows, high bed height, and sharp angles just doesn't do it for me. I drive by our Ford dealer and they have 50 or so of them on the lot, and i just think they are the worst looking of all the big trucks. I will admit that you can make them look a lot better by adding accessories such as the side tiedowns.

But remember, looks are personal taste and i am not knocking anyone if they don't agree with me.

bowke28 · February 2004

like the f150, except for the bed size. im only 5'4", and the bedsides are so high, it makes it impossible to reach anything. the titan isnt much better, but it has the utilitrak that can make things a whole lot easier.

ANT14 · February 2004

Depreciation is just one factor to consider. I know someone who owned both an Camry, and a Taurus similarly optioned. After they factored in the insurance (higher for the Camry because of it's theft rate)... The gas (higher on the Camry because it required premium), maintenence (higher on the Camry), depreciation (higher on the Taurus). Etc. The only difference after owning them for 4 years was really a few hundred dollars come time of trade in.

At one point or another, you eventually pay for it either way. Some at start up, some during the length of the ownership, other's at the end....

nvbanker · February 2004

OTOH, I LOVE The interior of the new F-150, a ton more than the Titan...... The bed does seem very high.

trucker49 · February 2004

Hey bowke to your knowledge has Nissan got the brake pressure senser issue resolved....or is it an issue? Have you seen many Titan's with this problem yet?

bowke28 · February 2004

ive seen no problems yet...the only reason we've had a titan in was for installation of a bedliner on an XE.

morganv · February 2004

No, bowke, you are misunderstanding me. A chevy equiped the same as a dodge and the same trim level, will retail more than a dodge 9about $3000). At trade in time the same 2 trucks are worth roughly the same in percentage from their retail prices, but the chevy will return more because you paid more for it. Believe me, i havent fallen for anything.

As far as the ford Dodge comparison, I thought this was about ford too. You were the one that brought up trade in value of the Dodge.

bowke28 · February 2004

im also here because of the nissan if you read my posts.

you said: "At trade in time the same 2 trucks are worth roughly the same in percentage from their retail prices, but the chevy will return more because you paid more for it."

you are SOOOO lost. the chevy will return more, but with the same percentage of depreciation, you've LOST more money. step back and punt.

ANT14 · February 2004

Another point on depreciations on trade-in's.... While you might be getting a good deal on your trade-in vehicle's value when it's appraised by them (and sounds too good to be true), they can nail the difference on the new vehicle your about to purchase.

OR in reverse senario, they can give you a great deal on a new vehicle, while placing the difference on the trade-in vehicle, making it seem like your really getting nothing for it.

Either way, most are very sneaky and will try to screw you over one way or another. Best thing to do is get your information online, compared, look at blue book values, look for rebates, and just inform yourself as much as possible. And even better, just selling it yourself if you have the time.

nvbanker · February 2004

Which is why I lease most of mine, 3 out of 5 anyway. If they turn out really good, and I still need them, I buy them at lease end and keep them forever.

bowke28 · February 2004

thats the reason i lease...i like having the OPTION of dropping it or not.

nvbanker · February 2004

Also is nice, when the bottom falls out of your value on your gas hot, because oil prices are up - you aren't met with that 90 minute stare at the car lot as they tell you your trade in is worth bupkis. The residual is preset. Let Ford worry about it.

morganv · February 2004

No, im not lost and i would appreciate it if you'd stop talking down to me like i was a child, or worse, a woman. youre trying to have this conversation both ways at trhe same time, and im begining to think just to me me look silly. If you are a car salesman you are not doing anything positive to improve the image. And if you're here to talk about nissan why did you engage me only about the Dodge?

bowke28 · February 2004

all i said was this:

"you think your dad had a bad time trading a chevy?! just wait till you try it with your dodge!"

it is common knowledge in the car business that chrysler products have some of the worst resale values. this is not in dispute. this is from real world facts. it is also factual that nissan products hold value better than all domestics. all i was trying to say was that you wont have any advantage in trading your dodge than the chevy. this is the point ive been trying to get across, but you seem intent on telling me that my years of exerience mean nothing. am i talking down to you? no. my statements are backed up with facts. if you feel spoken down to, then its the facts that are doing it. not me.

actually, i find it rampant on here that dodge truck owners, while they own the vehicles, will say almost anything to defend the decision to buy it...but when trade-in time comes along, most will say something to the effect of "ill never get one of those dad gummed things again!"

morganv · February 2004

You said "you are SOOOO lost" that is a very condescending way of saying something. As far as what you call "common knowledge" in the car business, is plain old fashioned bs to everyday people. You used the term "chrysler products" which obviously means cars AND trucks. The subject here has been trucks, but you are once again shifting the conversation, and I think its just to be argumentative. You may be a car salesman, but does that mean you must be right and cannot be challenged?

You must think im a dunce, or something. Earlier you said "now...dealing with your dodge/ford comparison, you are right. resale is about equal." now suddenly, again, you are trying to say "it is common knowledge in the car business that chrysler products have some of the worst resale values" in a discussion about Dodge trucks! as to Dodge truck owners regretting their purchase because of resale, ive never heard one say it. In fact, in recent years theyve been saying the opposite.

bowke28 · February 2004

whatever you want to think, go ahead...im done arguing with you over things that will present themselves in due time.

jcmdie · February 2004

Don't bother argueing with bowke. He has all the facts and knowledge about cars. He knows the only vehicles to obtain (never purchase according to bowke) and how and when to work out a deal. Just ask him.

nvbanker · February 2004

I don't think bowke was beating up on you, at least not personally. There are tons of dealers and salesmen here, and they are just so entrenched in the business, that they speak "matter of factly" about their experiences, without sometimes much diplomacy that outsiders expect, and call respect. From one outsider to another, I think he's right about what he's saying, actually. Certainly in the past, a Dodge truck is as popular as an Olds diesel at trade in time.

morganv · February 2004

Your comment about a lack of diplomacy is an understatement. As to "beating up" on me and not being personal, i dont understand how talking down to people is not being personal. however, i suspect you agree with him and thats why youre coming to his defense. What i believe is that when and if a person uses the "D" word this kind of thing happens. What i know is that, with or without "years of experience", Dodge values are pretty much on par with ford and Chevy. What ever difference is so small as to be inconsequential. Ive also benefitted from going in to the "nissan v tundra and Dodge forums and i can see now what is really going on.

bowke28 · February 2004

appreciate the backup. the only reason i get a little "touchy" is because with the resources available, people still make comments about buying a dodge truck "for resale value" or "for high quality" or "for great reliability". it just gets old after awhile.

to morgan...

by no means did i intend to get personal. if you took it that way, then its a communication problem.

there are hundreds of gigs of information, much of which is about dodge trucks. i just left the hemi/titan discussion where people were intentionally insulting me, salespeople in general, asians as a race, etc...

im sick of it, and i mistakenly lumped you in with them. sorry.

morganv · February 2004

maybe youre too quick to lump people into stereotypes. i guess, "i get a little "touchy" is because with the resources available, people still make comments about buying a dodge truck "for resale value" or "for high quality" or "for great reliability". it just gets old after awhile", means that youre offended when people honestly believe something you dont. As to the "resources", the one here at Edmunds say that Dodge resale is what you said earlier, about the same as ford. as to quality and reliability, weve owned fords for almost 25 years and despite what consumers reporets say, we havent had any where near the luck. so "I" dont believe them. (people lie on those reports. i know. ive got one in the family!) the people we know who have dodges are not having any problems with them, so i pay attention to what my good neighbors are experiencing. as to reliability, dodge trucks last longer, dont they? or is that a "resource" you dont believe?

landru2 · February 2004

"No, im not lost and i would appreciate it if you'd stop talking down to me like i was a child, or worse, a woman."

Nice insult to 50% of the human race.

bowke28 · February 2004

besides owners bulletin boards that describe dodge trucks as long-lasting or reliable. heck...their commercials and sales literature dont even claim it.

dustyk · February 2004

>>>...owners bulletin boards that describe dodge trucks as long-lasting or reliable. heck...their commercials and sales literature dont even claim it.<<<

Wrong again - on both counts!

"For 2004, RAM still rules as the longest lasting full-size pickup on the road."
- Dodge RAM sales brochure #74-383-2408. Based on R.L. Polk and Company Vehicles In Operation (VIO) statistics for trucks, 7/83 - 7/02.

Morgan, since you are into horses you know that a healthy horse is not merely judged by what somebody with self-proclaimed credibility says, especially the seller. Nor would you rely solely on what someone said about somebody elses horse when they're trying to sell you another. That is why you look a horse in the mouth. Right?

You will note that examples of claims against Dodge have not been readily forth coming. You are expected to allow the opinions of someone in sales to be rammed down your throat.

I could most certainly throw in MY credibility card since I have at least as many years in the automobile business as anybody in here (fortunately, not in sales), but I won't because what I say does not need to rely on "credibility."

With respect to resale, you are right, Morgan. Not only that, but there are local market rules that make a broad statement about resale very foolish indeed. Around here Dodge truck resale values are higher than Ford. That's probably not true for eastern seaboard or the southeast, where Ford is thought of more fondly. In the Rochester, New York Truck Trader for January, there were 258 Chevys, 60 GMCs, 213 Fords, and 31 Dodges for sale used. It cannot be good for dealers selling Ford or GM trucks when the market contains so many.

My company has run Ford F-series for a number of years. Sorry to hear of your sour results with Ford. I would not judge them so harshly, but that is your priviledge. You're most certainly not the first. But as we shift from F-series LDPUs to Dodges, we've found two things. One, we are taking a killing on F-series resale value. Two, the new RAMs we've got in service so far have been the most trouble-free of any PU we've ever had.

You've obviously got a strong sense of identifying bias an bs. If you're expecting fair treatment in conversation, I advise you to go into another forum.

Regards,
Dusty

morganv · February 2004

we have a friend in the used car business and he tells like you do. sine we are in a rural area, he says that Dodge is actually stronger here than both fortd and Chevy. are you saying that your company ford trucks havent been to bad? weve had almost everyone on my husbands side of the family switch in the last few years. they were all diehard ford people. my brother in law even sold fords here in town for quite a while, but has now gone to selling Chevys. fords got a poor reputation around here. Of, course, my dads a real diehard Chevy man. He wont even allow people with anything else park in his driveway! (we dont see him much)

PF_Flyer · February 2004

Remember that this is a public message board full of a lot of OPINIONS. And you're not likely to agree with everything you read. BUT...one of the hardest things to do, in my experience, is to write a message board post and have it say EXACTLY what you mean and/or have everyone else who reads it interpret that meaning in the way you intended.

A lot of the problems we run into on the boards are because people don't take things the way they were intended, or read something into a posting, then reply... and that reply gets interpreted as something, etc, etc... and things escalate.

Please stick to the topics and avoid commenting on each other. It makes for a much smoother ride!

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

aggiemph1 · February 2004

this is not a dodge board...that one was closed for various reasons, I'd like to keep this discussion open b/c I am interested in buying the ford or nissan in the future.

Thanks and Gig 'em

bowke28 · February 2004

im sick of people assuming that what i say isnt credible BECAUSE i sell cars. my profession has very little to do with why i come here. it does, however, give me certain pockets of expertise that i can share. on MY OWN time. i dont get paid for this, nor do i harvest business from here, so those who think there is some ulterior motive for my presence, please re-think your position.

thank you

-rant over

nvbanker · February 2004

Many of us understand your positions, and your opinions are valid opinions and helpful to some of us.

As the Titan gets out there, I keep hearing some pretty disappointing complaints about leaks, squeaks and rattles that surprise me. I like Nissan, always have, but lately their initial quality is disappointing. I think I would wait for second year before considering one. Even Morganv's transmission is inadequate. This is an unproven truck in an unproven size for Nissan. I'd give it some time. Meantime, although I don't like the exterior looks of the new F-150, the interior is first class, and I love that. I do think the Dodge has the best looking outside appearance. Wish I could put the Dodge look on the Ford power train with the Ford interior. No?

bowke28 · February 2004

that wasnt directed at you...several others know who they are, though.

keanec · February 2004

If you check the board titantalk.com you will see many new Titan owners who are VERY happy with thier purchases. It is dedicated to people who own, or want to own a Titan. This board has alot of people who are more interested in spreading disinformation. Some of the owners at Titantalk have had some small problems, but no big problems. Two people who were posing as Titan owners (you have to be very careful about this) were listing problems and making up stories. The lesson is, always be careful what you read, especially if it is in a forum that pits one make against another - like this one.

titanup · February 2004

Drive the Nissan Titan and you'll be glad you did. We just purchased our Titan two months ago, it's the best move ever. You'll be impressed with torque, horsepower and how quiet the ride is. There is no wind noise at all. It'a comfortable and secure truck. Nissan has definitely thought of everything when manufacturing this truck. My only qualm is the gear shift tends to block the rado volume when in drive. Hopefully they'll change that on future models, however it's tolerable. The heater kicks butt, hotter and faster than a Ford, which is unusual. We've owned an F-150 in the past, and I can honestly say we'll never go back. It's that comfortable, that powerful, and just that awesome.

ANT14 · February 2004

"Two people who were posing as Titan owners (you have to be very careful about this) were listing problems and making up stories."

So is this to say, that every person on that board that discusses something negative about their Titan, is perceived not to be real and making something up just because it's negative, and only to believe the one's that say something positive because it's convinient and acceptable?

kjdenahy · February 2004

"So is this to say, that every person on that board that discusses something negative about their Titan, is perceived not to be real and making something up just because it's negative, and only to believe the one's that say something positive because it's convinient and acceptable?"

Stop reading into the posts. Actually to the two people on Titantalk who posted false information were a friend of one of the members playing a joke on their buddy.
Nobody ever said the Titan hasn't had any problems. Name one vehicle that doesn't have ANY problems....you can't.
If you have any questions about the problems people are having with their trucks, look at the NHTSA website and look at the difference yourself.
I'm not going to put down any truck. I test drove the Big 3 and was set to buy a '04 F-150, then test drove a Titan just to "make sure." I bought the Titan.
Test drive all of the trucks before you buy and make the decision off of what you need in the vehicle and like the best. You can't go wrong.

mariner7 · February 2004

"He estimates that 100,000 Titans a year will cut Ford's annual profits by almost $1 billion."

Only 100K Titans are doing a lot of havoc to F150's and other trucks. Difference is: Ford's financial health is so dependent on F150.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/auto24_20040224.htm

keanec · February 2004

"So is this to say, that every person on that board that discusses something negative about their Titan, is perceived not to be real"

Nope. I only said to be careful. Lot of people took what those two pranksters were saying as real and posted their crap on other boards - including this one and people (not mentioning names) on this board and others have taken to using this misinfo as gospel.

As I said before, I am sure there are going to be issues with the Titan (like there are sure to be issues with the new F-150) but if you listen to true owners of the Titan - they love them!

Yes, there are going to be ones who don't too.

aggiemph1 · February 2004

I know that your dealership sells Fords, I wanted to ask you about your experience's with selling to people eligible for X plan pricing. I like both of these trucks for different reasons, the Titan for its powertrain and features, and the Ford for its quietness and refinement, so whichever one I can get the cheapest is prob. gonna be the one I buy. I've never bought anything with X plan and was wondering how much difference it made in negotiations.

Thanks.

AG

bowke28 · February 2004

...in negotiations. there ARE NO negotiations. the price is set by ford, and if a dealer changes it, they lose their a/x/z plan priveleges.

you automatically qualify for all applicable incentive programs on top of that.

its a common misconception that you get less for a trade. what you actually get is your trade's ACTUAL value, instead of some fake number.

normally, x plan will be about 1-2% below invoice.

however, if you are looking for a crew cab, a titan and f150 will have very similar transaction prices.

example:

titan XE CC 2WD-MSRP $26760
f150 xlt CC 2WD-MSRP $31605

these are equipped the same.

x-plan on a model like this in the ford will be ~$27k.

the only difference in the 2 is if you finance for 36 months, you can get 1.9% on the ford.

oldharry · February 2004

Individuals buy more Chevy trucks than anything else, while Ford has the definite edge for fleets. That may be because it seems easier to get a "plain jane" Ford while the Chevy dealers push top of the line models. The Dodge people are fewer, but love their trucks.

I work on them all, and they are all good trucks. The Japanese labels seem to have more problems with structural rust after a decade than the US labels, however. I don't have a website to post the pictures as links, but I have some of a 1991 Nissan 4 X 4 , that broke in half from rust when I tried to raise it on a hoist to find a bad tie rod last Wednesday. Scary thing!

Chevy/GMC, Ford, and Dodge trucks about twice that age are still running as daily drivers around here. ( 1979 is the most common old Ford truck I see, and 1977 for Chevrolet.)

If someone wants to post a couple give me an e-mail address, and I send them to you.

Harry

jrc346 · February 2004

Do you know much about 79 F-150's with the 302? I have a spark knock issue that has plagued mine for the last 30,000 miles. If you have any ideas, I will describe the problem in more detail.

nvbanker · February 2004

Those old 79 302s ALWAYS had a spark knock problem. Retard the timing, or buy higher octane. That's the only fix I know.

Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

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