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Hemi vs. Hybrid! Japan goes Tech, US goes ICE! Who's really winning??



  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    that would make it the first PZEV V-6 equipped car! The Escape hybrid will use the 4-cylinder in concert with the electric motor. If the Accord hybrid engine has a higher compression ratio, will one have to buy premium to get the hybrid gas savings?!

    xcel: I figure the Accord hybrid will be at least $24K, and I am hoping, not much more.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    The regular Accord LX V6 is $24k, and the EX with leather is $27k. I think it unlikely that Honda will be able to sell a hybrid version at $24k. Consider the uptick in price of the HCH compared to the ICE Civic.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    I would expect Accord Hybrid to carry a price tag of at least $26K (if based off LXV6) or $28K (if based off EXV6). Not bad IMO considering what it could offer at content and power levels besides everything that is currently expected in a hybrid (improved mileage and reduced emissions).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Anything starting at $20 grand will feel like an econobox compared to a near-luxury car like a Lexus.

    Get in an Echo, though, then climb into the Prius. I'd argue the Prius is closer to your Lexus.

    And to be honest the IS is not a good comparator, it's sporty and cramped while the Prius is efficient and airy.

  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi All:

    ___Well, the Ford Escape is a true reality … 38 mpg in a brand new unbroken in one by drivers only known for their celebrity through and around Manhattan!

    ___You can read more about it here:

    ___SOB, that mileage and what the territory they drove through is within striking distance of an 04 Prius … The big ticket is that it is also a PZEV. I mean even the Highlander Hybrid won’t be a PZEV!

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    Well, more like striking distance of a Classic Prius--and with the same hybrid technology too! But 38 mpg is a great accomplishment for a SUV, even a small one with a four-banger. That must be double what the regular Escape would do in conditions like that. If Ford can keep the price down, they should sell like hotcakes.
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    So the Escape hybrid will use the PZEV 4 banger from the Focus and the HH will use a SULEV V6 do I have that right ?
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Backy:

    ___The only problem is that they are going to limit the Escape to just 30,000 vehicles :( As for its performance, it should be comparable to the V6 according to Ford’s Escape Hybrid web site? Meaaing depleted pack, depleted performance. I wonder how a 133 HP – 129 Ft.-Lb’s of torque engine will do hauling that > 3600 # (I am guessing at its weight?) vehicle around? It is going to use the 2.3 L from the PZEV Focus but it appears to have been Atkinsonized. Here is Ford’s own detail:

    133 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 129 lbs-ft of torque at 4500 rpm. The preliminary horsepower rating climbs to approximately 155 hp when combined with the electric motors (based on Ford preliminary data).

    ___The problem as is the case with all Hybrid’s, can it make up its higher initial cost in fuel cost savings? It is supposed to cost another $2,000 - $4,000 over one of the Escapes? I hope that is the 4 cylinder version? It is a PZEV so that helps and receiving 38 mpg in the Manhattan traffic and 37 continuous hours on a single tank is pretty amazing. And it did it with celebrities, not experienced Hybrid drivers … I don’t think I could have done that in my Insight but an 04 Prius driver might have been able too? 37 hours and 537 miles is a long way however … This was done at the proper time so as to not to have to use heat or A/C more then likely and that PZEV could just sit at all those lights and in that traffic doing nothing but crawling on the pack for hours before the ICE started up to charge the pack again?

    ___Here is the Escape Hybrid SUV capability text at Ford’s Escape Hybrid site: p=1

    ___Rfruth, I have read the V6 in the HH will be SULEV but I don’t know much else about it. I am sure there is plenty of discussion about it in the Highlander and I thought I saw a HH forum as well?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    of a SULEV and a PZEV are the same standard. The extras you get in a PZEV are zero evaporative emissions from the gas tank and a 150K emissions warranty.

    I would hope that Ford did the same thing with the HVAC as Toyota did with the current Prius - engineer them so that the gas engine does not have to run at stoplights to keep the heat or A/C running.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • daysailerdaysailer Posts: 720
    do you suppose, choose a vehicle based on its emission rating?
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    About the same as the emission percentage ;0 In otherwords , very low.

    And assume that USA gets Iraq back on its feet, disolve the current OPEC, and has some influence on reasonably priced oil.

    If this happens, Guess what It will be the same effect after the gas lines and gas shortages of the 70's were over. Hybrids will wayne in popularity, especially the low performance ones.
    I have been trying to think of a new moniker

    PRIUS - Performance Really Is Un-Smart.

    PRIUS - Pride Rises Inspite Un-prius Stupidity.

    PRIUS - Pump Resource Invites User Savings.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,924
    Re dissolving OPEC and the return of cheap gas: let us know when you wake up from your dream, OK?

    Meanwhile, gas price at local stations is $1.90 today--and it's six weeks until Memorial Day.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    that are concerned with environmental impact more than just what the gas will cost them. That emissions sticker slapped in the window of a new car that compares it to average cars for its model year is there because of consumer demand. At least in California. Is that a 50-state thing?

    Look at Honda/Acura - they post a sticker in the window of every car they sell that says 'ULEV' or 'SULEV' or whatever. Their own sticker, which is in addition to the mandatory one. At the Honda dealership, low emissions have always been a selling point.

    Saw a Dodge truck with the huge 'HEMI' badge on it this morning - man are those ever huge rims on that thing!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ford's even gotten Escape reliability up to "average" per CR. The hybrid might be a hit.

  • wimsey1wimsey1 Posts: 201
    Hope the Escape hybrid goes well for Ford also.
    They could use a hit.
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    ...Autoextremist article, this on the value of added horsepower:
This discussion has been closed.