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2005 X3 2.5i metallic, premium package, automatic, heated seats, privacy package, dealer offers coupons bringing financing to 2.5% rate
$35000 + tax and charges (license, transfers, etc)
I get really tired looking all of this up....lol
(plus, my employer would like me to do a modicum of work each day....)
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Selling price $38,000 (reasonable)
Cap cost $38,625 (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
MF .0010
Residual 59%
3yr/45K
Payment $480 + tax..
Due at signing: 1st payment, security deposit, license and title fees.. (under $1400 total).
You might be able to do even better.. If you negotiate a price of $37,500, the payment would drop by $15/mo..
regards,
kyfdx
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I may be doing OK but not too happy about it. He said he would throw in all season floor mats and some key chains.
How do I talk the guy into giving me the deal like $525/mo tax included or something else? I know it sounds stupid but there's got to be a technique.
Thanks
My local dealer won't come close to a $1000 over invoice price, but the one 50 miles up the road will...
At least you are $40/mo. less than what you thought it would be, when you ordered it... And, presumably, it is the exact car you wanted...
Are you sure you can get by with 10K miles/yr.? If you think you need 12K, ask him for that same price on a 12K/yr lease... That knocks his profit down about $430, but that might be something he'll go for.. Of course, if you don't need the miles, this is of no value.. Don't turn down the floormats and key chains...
I don't think there is any magic technique.. I've left a lot of dealers with no car... You have a little disadvantage... he knows he has the car you want.. you ordered it..
Good luck,
kyfdx
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Thanks again for quick response.
Good luck!
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Mystic Blue/beige leather
Automatic
Premium Package
Heated Steering Wheel
Birch Grain Wood (the lighter wood, but with beige interior, it looks great)
Heated Front Seats
Satellite Radio Prep
Privacy Glass
-------------------------------------------------
40,345 MSRP
$419.31/mo with only your $1094.40 sales tax due on delivery (less the $500 deposit, of course).
If so, grab it... the hard work is over..
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x3 3.0 lease 15, 000 miles
premium package
heated sand leather seats
heated steering wheel
privacy glass
all season rubber mats
MSRP 40,270
Our Price 38,000
516.66 month including the 10% leasing tax(PA)
1,800 down this includes acq. fee and security deposit and 1st month payment
How does this deal sound?
They are quoting about $2,000 below MSRP for an X3 3.0, wonder if it's too good to be true.
If I use the .0010 base money factor I get $503/mo.. Using .0012, I get your exact payment to the penny...
So they are padding the money factor, or they are adding about $430 into your cap cost.. Maybe a document fee or some kind of bogus prep charge?
This is a good deal, except for this one point.. which is costing you $13/mo...
I'm guessing if you call them on it, they will drop the payment.. Or, it is possible they have some explanation (such as licensing fees, etc..) for why your cap cost is higher..
You are very close to a good deal..
regards,
kyfdx
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For example, they had killer lease deals on 3-series in December... Starting in January, they changed the incentives to dealer cash.. This was great if you were financing, but if you were leasing, the payment went up about $50/mo, even taking the dealer incentives into account..
That said, I had my car in for service Friday, and my dealer had new X3s out the wazoo.. I'd say 30-40 of them.
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It sure doesn't look too good to be true...
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I am trying to understand lease math, so I plugged these numbers into the lease calc that Edmunds has and I get a payment of $511, not $480.
Then I double-checked the calculation manually. As I calculate it, using a cap cost of $38,625 less the residual value of $22,420, you get an amount $16,205, which when amortized over 36 months you get $450. Add to that the monthly finance charge of $61 (cap cost + residual)*MF.
That's how I also get $511.
Anything I am doing wrong here?
Your formula is exactly correct.. Assuming you calculated the residual correctly (MSRP X residual percentage).
Ignore Edmunds lease calculator.. If you use it enough, you'll notice that it adds in charges that you didn't enter, etc..
regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks in advance!
And.. you are off to a bad start.. your dealer is already lying to you.. the "buy" rate is .0010.. This could also be the "sell" rate if the dealer so chooses..
A rate of .00155 would be with the maximum possible markup and with the security deposit waived..
Be sure to learn the difference between a "downpayment" and "due at signing". I recommend never making a downpayment..
regards,
kyfdx
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I agree on the Edmunds calc., don't say it too loudly though, there be spies among us.
Thanks again
I don't know how you put up with all these questions but here goes another one for me. You may remember me as the guy with the current Freelander lease trynig to figure out if the current promo is good enough to terminate the lease early. Anyway...here are some rough numbers I got from the dealer.
MF .00100 - 62% Residual for 10k/yr
X3 3.0 Automantic, Premium package, heated seats, & Metallic paint.
MSRP $ 39,770
Cap Reduction (cash down) $2,500 *Can I ask why you don't agree with down payments?*
Initial payment (includes cap reduction, 1st. payment & security deposit) ...... $3,602.
Payment before taxes $ 406.94
Payment including taxes (7.4%) $437.05
$437 sounds about right for what I expected to pay for an X3 but I wouldn't mind it a little lower. What are your thoughts on 39mo leases?
2) To get to that cap cost, I have to assume a selling price of $38,955
$38,955 - $2500 down + $625 acq.fee = $37,080.
That is only $825 off of MSRP for the selling price..
So, while they are using the base money factor, which is good.. they aren't giving you much of a discount off the MSRP.. I think you should get at least $1000 more off.. IOW, you should get this same payment with only $1500 down, and $2602 due at signing..
Reasoning on "no downpayment" to follow..
regards,
kyfdx
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I have been working with a dealer on getting a new X3 3.0. I had been conversing over email about the pricing and we came to an agreement. When the dealer located one to our specs, we went in and worked out the numbers. When I say we I mean the dealer. He had gone in to the "office" and came out with a sheet that had some numbers worked out on it. Upon inspection the final monthly payment looked around what we had been working towards. ( I know, mistake number one, monthly payment isnt the goal, cap cost is!)
Well we signed a sheet saying the price looked good and we put down a deposit.
Problem is, when I sit down and work the numbers we agreed upon, the monthly payments don't match up. I don't know where they are adding stuff in but there is a small (read $19) difference.
I want to know if it is too late to call them on it. I have signed something (no legal information on it looking the sheet over) and put down a deposit. If I've made a mistake, I'll eat the difference. We have to have that car!
But I'd like to at least know if I have a chance working it out a little bit, maybe add on an alarm or something...make that $19 up in the car.
Anyone?
Or, maybe they added the acquisition fee into the cap cost..
You can't ask for something, until you've ascertained if they took something away..
And.. the goal IS the monthly payment.. After all, that is what you are paying.. Knowing what constitutes a good deal requires that you know what affects that payment.
regards,
kyfdx
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1) It doesn't appreciably change the amount you pay for the lease overall.... All it does is mask the monthly cost of the vehicle.. Advertised leases usually involve a downpayment, because that makes the car seem cheaper.
2) Any money you pay upfront is at risk in a lease.. If the car is totaled or stolen early in the lease, any downpayment you made will likely disappear.. If you put $2500 down, then after three months the car is stolen, you've likely spent 1300/mo to lease that car for three months..
regards,
kyfdx
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What are your thoughts on a 39mo lease?
2) You will pay taxes on your downpayment, in addition to taxes on the payment, so no savings there...
3) You may be "comfortable" with the lower payment.. but, that is exactly my point.. Your payment isn't really lower... you are paying part of it upfront... You can always put your downpayment in a money market account and draw out 1/36th of it to defray the payment each month...
4) 39 month leases are fine, if your are under warranty.. as long as there is a savings over 36 month... BMW occasionally runs a special on 39 month leases, but not that often, and isn't doing that now, I don't think...
regards,
kyfdx
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You were right about returning car at lease end. Remember the ML500 I have mentioned, I can only return it to a MB dealer.
Here is my question: Should I wait for MB to come inspect my truck before returning it or just bring it in to a MB dealer myself. What are the advantages and disadvantages of all these?
The X3 3.0 I have ordered is already at the BMW dealer.
Thanks
1) The third-party inspectors they use are usually very liberal about dings, tire wear, etc...
2) If they find any problems, you have the option of getting them fixed on your own, probably much cheaper, than if they charge you for them..
3) If you just turn the car in, you can get a bill many weeks later for damages and excessive wear and tear.. and, you have no ability to dispute the charges, because the vehicle is already gone. And, anything can happen to the vehicle, once it is on the dealer's lot.. without that inspection, you have no control...
My pre-turn-in inspections have always gone very well...
regards,
kyfdx
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I will ask what the cap cost is in their numbers and compare that with the cap cost I am using in my calculations. I will update here in the forum when I find out.
Thank you for your quick response. These forums along with the bimmerfest forums where I also see you helping people out have been invaluable to me during my research. Your effort is greatly appreciated.
From your experience, how long does this take(from inspection to returning the car)? I really want to pick up that X3. On the other hand, do you think BMW is just as eager to sell me that car? Is it OK to let them wait?
Thank you very much for your knowlege.
I'm sure your BMW dealer is going to insist on you taking delivery this month.. I doubt they will hold the deal any longer than that..
regards,
kyfdx
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The dealer also reminded me that with BMW you don't have to pay for scheduled maintence and brakes. I was worried about the monthly payment getting to high for my comfort but I suppose this really is something that I have to consider about the BMW. I paid soooo much money with the Freelander on maintenance an brakes that its nice to know I won't have to worry about that.......or will I? Is there a "Gotcha" in that whole Free Maintenance deal?
No gotchas on the free maintenance... It is as advertised...
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MSRP $41,320
Sale Price $40,028
36 months, 12,000 miles a year
cap cost $40,028
residual 61%
residual value $25,205
money factor 0.00100
monthly payment ($519.91):
lease charge $65.23
monthly depreciation $411.74
PA lease tax (9%) $42.93
due at delivery ($1871.16):
1st month $519.91
security $550
bank fee $625
tax on bank fee $56.25
tags $120
2) Very positive things here.. base MF rate, base acq.fee, no goofy dealer fees... You are 95% of the way home..
Try asking them for another $1000 off.. If that is too much, ask them to reduce the price by $625 and roll the acquisition fee into the cap cost..
That would keep the payment the same, but reduce your upfront by $681.25 ($625 + $56.25)
regards,
kyfdx
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MF .001
62% residual
36 month, 10,000ml/yr
$1391 due at signing
tax in NY 8.625%
Monthly payment is $538
Question: Is $40955 the right selling price?
Picking up car in a few hours.
Thanks
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I get a payment of $490 + tax.. or $532/mo. tax included...
If they are marking up the acq.fee to $1100, then I get $538/mo.. tax included..
So, I guess my numbers show them charging you $200 too much... Not too bad for a $43K car, I guess...
regards,
kyfdx
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The invoice on an X3 with an MSRP of $43,055 is about $39,400...
Making his deal about $1500 over invoice..
I'm not saying he wouldn't take less, but if they are using the base lease numbers, you have a pretty good deal..
regards,
kyfdx
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Regards
Argento
Good deal or bad, it's done as mentioned before. But that was an experience. Have never negotiated on a price of a car like this before. Learned a lot.
Dealer told me they made profit of less than $2000, who the hell knows? Although they threw in front and rear all weather mats. What's the least they should have profit?
By the way, the car is awesome!
Thanks again.
I don't know what the least is... At that dealer, that may be the least they will accept..
Overall, regardless of their profit, it looks like a pretty good lease deal.. Not a bad price for a $43K car..
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Thanks.