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Hybrids in the News
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Remember, the 2004 isn't even in production now. So short-term discussions make no sense. Spar-2 of the 2005 model year is the soonest quantity speculation can focused on now.
JOHN
Exaggerated fuel savings and buying to make a statement....hmmmm.
He could be talking about anything. Heck, just a few years ago a heavily moded Civic (that had no modifications to the engine what so ever) was called a "hybrid".
And of course, his implication that hybrids can only be configured in one particular way to serve only one particular market segment is totally, completely false. Toyota has already proven that HSD can be configured 3 different ways. The Prius currently available, the racing Prius, and the Highlander-Hybrid. Each has a very different purpose, yet each uses HSD and reduces emissions & increase efficiency.
When there is money to be made, they simply are not going to ignore the opportunity. The success of HSD will force them to change their tune... or drive them into bankruptcy. Now which do you think they will choose?
The actual reason they are bad-mouthing hybrids is that they have nothing to compete with yet. As soon as they do, it will be as if they had never sad anything negative about the technology or the potential market.
JOHN
6/28/04
That is just plain wrong. I never said "2004" even once. The profit comments were always about the classic model, since we had plenty of published articles supporting that it had in fact been achieved.
And why are you in total denial that Toyota has announced double the production for 2005 than in 2004?
Also, why are you completely ignoring the fact that Toyota will in fact reach it's long-standing goal of 300,000 systems per year worldwide by the end of 2005?
Discussing the 2004 Prius is totally pointless, since production for it ends in just a few days.
6/30/04
Perhaps I should (again) point out that Toyota has posted overall results of quarterly profits recently, while GM & Ford both report losses. In other words, Toyota has capital to invest into LONG-TERM projects. GM & Ford are simply struggling to survive.
7/1/04
Kerry is strongly behind hybrids. He understands how a full hybrid can very easily be adapted to use a fuel-cell instead of an engine.
7/19/04
Since 2002, Toyota has been saying their plans are to produce 300,000 hybrid systems per year worldwide by the end 2005.
7/25/04
Haven't you noticed how the SUV market is collapsing?
Not really, it actually confuses matters, since that is a clear drop in sales... an 11% fall in June, down 5.97 percent from a year ago.
Toyota's sales were up 5%, not down. There's an obvious trend in their favor.
Here's more info
JOHN
"Of course, a diesel-powered hybrid would return even better fuel economy"
"In fact, we'd guess the new Prius, starting at $20,510, is the most heavily subsidized car on the market today."
Further clarification on the SUV market. So far this year 129,942 more SUVs were sold than last year at this time. GM of course leads the pack with 615k SUVs sold this year to date. Beating their last years sales by about 41K SUVs. During this same period Toyota sold 256K SUVs a distant 4th place after GM, DCC & Ford in that order.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsuv.asp
Anywho, not once was the meaning of "SUV" ever defined.
Do you know what vehicles are really included?
They very well could be counting all the hot new wagons too!
No matter, any of those sales below intended market value pulls in too little profit for all the manufacturing bills to be paid.
Remember, even though Prius is currently sold at a loss, it is still at the intended market value. Toyota is establishing an expectation. They will continue at that same price once the high-volume production kicks in. Profit will then be achieved... which isn't true for the already establish SUV market. They are giving discounts just so the stock doesn't pile up.
JOHN
On the other hand, he spurs lively conversation and since Hybrid powered (yes John, all "hybrids" even if they are not Toyota) vehicles are an exciting topic we need the conversation and, since internet content is not censored for accuracy, it's each person's own responsibility to take each comment or claim and do their research to find out if it is valid or not.
Get over it.
JOHN
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- _id=8369
529 Million from auto sales...
Ford:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article- _id=8365
However, Ford did only make 83 Million before special pretax charges, and actually lost 57 million after special charges. I think they are still working out the pension problems. The former headine of 1.2 billion referred to all units, including credit.
So, 50% correct ain't all that bad..
Haven't seen the numbers on DC yet.
Home Depot offers their own trucks for spot-rental, cheap.
Sears delivers -- at least, they used to. Maybe they're lamer, these days.
Next case?
Not to mention taking the lawn mower in for repair, helping friends move appliances, etc...
If you have to do it two or three times a year, than three Home Depot truck rentals are $120.
Tell me you wouldn't save $120 in car payments alone -- forget the gas -- by buying a car that fits what you actually do with it *every day*, instead of sizing the car you buy to fit what you do a few times a year?
I'm not saying that nobody should own SUVs or trucks. I'm saying that more people should think about what they actually use their vehicle for *most* of the time.
As it happens, we *own* a truck. We bought it when we did a lot more hauling-of-stuff, a lot more often. We keep it because it's paid for, and we do still have occasional uses for it...
But we don't commute in it...
Fortunately, it doesn't actually cost that much.
It's just $19.95 for 75 minutes of use here.
JOHN
Yes, I would suspect that $5 a gallon would do a lot towards making people use smaller cars. However, for the record, Europe also has excellent mass transit, and does not have the large real estate problem we have here in the (western) US, i.e., it is spread out a lot and not condusive to mass transit...
"Countryside" is no more than 5-8KM from the next villiage, and the villages tend to have their own groceries and shops. Many europeans don't even own a car. Also, the vehicles are taxed based on engine size, which tends to reward smaller cars. But just like here, the rich drive what they want, and those large cars are just that - large, and not very fuel efficient (difficult to get fuel effeciency in a 10 cylinder)!
They have their appliances delivered, unless one of the farmers has a truck (a real truck, not a pickup), which is more likely.
My point was about the differences between Europe and the western US. And anyway, for much of the rural west, more rugged suspensions and higher ground clearances are required to drive the unimproved roads. You could do it with a small sedan - if you wanted to have to rebuild it every year or so...
I know a lot of Americans who have their appliances delivered also. The store I like to use has a perk of no-charge delivery and setup--so I can use their truck instead of owning or renting one.
This is not about "SUVs are bad." It's about making most efficient use of resources.
And it's not about Hybrids in the News either, so I guess we need to get back to that...
Hmmm, I didn't mean to mention LA in my posts. I travel around the west several times a year.
But actually, your comment is not far off. The main roads in the San Fernando valley are OK, but the back streets can be down right bad, depending on where you live. You practically need that extra height and ruggend suspension...
And now back to our regularly scheduled board...
I've noticed this for the past several weeks, but I read this news (Reuter article on oil price's impact on the stock market) that the oil price per barrel has hit a new high at 44.50.
The crude oil price has been going up for the past couple weeks, and usually the pump price immediately jumps whenever there is such a "bad" news.
But guess what... I live in San Jose, CA (95124), and the pump price has been going down for the past couple of weeks! In fact, it just went down by $0.02 yesterday!
What's going on here? Are the U.S. oil "cartels" trying to protect "someone"? So, does this mean that we won't see any gas price increase till November?
(a bit tongue-in-cheek mood...)
Hong.
http://tinyurl.com/7x7qw
Conspiracy theory thickens...
Hong.
Panic on Wallstreet's part really isn't directly related.
JOHN
I'd like to hear an explanation for that one!
http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=27614&- ;pg=1
Turboshadow
Driver's irked as mileage fails to add up
Shame that it has to take an act of Congress to right a clear wrong.
Now, I'm not saying it IS the old car, and there is nothing wrong with doing that from an engineering standpoint. I was just intrigued by what I saw as a general similarity.
Turboshadow
Personally, I always liked that car. Shoot, I like the Prius. I wouldn't buy one 'cause it doesn't fit my needs, driving style. Too each his own.
Turboshadow
http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100683
quote-
Citing the costs for increased production of its popular Prius, Toyota Motor Corp. said Monday it would raise the price of the five-seat, gasoline-electric hybrid car by $580 in the United States.
The 2.9 percent increase, effective Sept. 14, follows a $300 price hike in April. Most buyers have to wait months for delivery of the popular Prius. -end
Odd, prices are increasing, not decreasing as production increases.