Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

fezo · March 2012

I agree completely. Waste of time.

Meanwhile I guess Craig likes his collection of Benjamins. Resisting all temptation to send me a couple......

Doing OK here. Got promoted to a corner room. Can see the East River from here.

qbrozen · March 2012

I tell him that it's nice, but that it is missing a pedal(the car has a slushbox).

I told him that if I can't take the car on the track I'm not buying it

Of course, I can't figure out for the life of me how these are at all related. My not-so-slushbox is going to the track. I'm sure it would find its way around it faster than a manual version, too.

nyccarguy · March 2012

We enthusiasts make up such a small percentage of the market. Both salesmen I dealt with are car guys too. They definitely said BMW's new direction moving forward is going to focus a little more on smoother ride quality & fuel economy. BMWs will still be sharper than their counterparts, but not as stiffly sprung as an "old school BMW."

breld · March 2012

I was going to ask if you were experiencing any misgivings from going with the automatic with the 135i. I guess you're good with it, huh?

stickguy · March 2012

BMW was one of the few cars where I really liked the way the AT worked. Some others, could not stand.

qbrozen · March 2012

Yeah. In regular old D mode, it wasn't the best I could imagine for the car. DS mode was much more like it. Problem was DS mode wouldn't shift to 6th on its own. You had to do that yourself. Not a big deal, but kind of an extra step that wasn't necessary, IMHO.

HOWEVER, since hooking up the piggy-back ECU (juicebox), things have improved quite a bit. With that box, they were able to dial out the lag caused by the throttle-by-wire (which I am to understand exists on the manual, as well, anyway). So now just keeping it in D is just fine. The car is ridiculously quick. I love it.

qbrozen · March 2012

waiting to hear your final experience and about the drive home...

isellhondas · March 2012

Things must be tough. It's pretty bad when the car manufacturers have
to offer cash if people test drive cars. I would guess that 99.9% of these time wasting test drives do not result in a sale. What a way to attract "strokes"!

I'll bet the salespeople just hate it or run and hide when a "customer" come in with one of these promo flyers.

Years ago, Honda did a dumb thing and they offered a pair of walkie talikes (of all things) if people test drove a car. The customers would come in with these cards in their hand and the showroom would clear out. Some newbee wold usually get stuck with a useless test drive. I honestly can't remember when one of these resulted in a sale.

Thankfully, Honda never did anything like that ever again.

And, I'm not a "poseur" but we do have a BMW with a dreaded AUTOMATIC...HORRORS!!!

I would never subject this (or any) car to track driving and I have no use for a stick. I guess that makes me a "Dork" too, huh?

stickguy · March 2012

cheap advertising I guess. And anything that gets people in to the showroom is a plus. Some of them must turn into sales!

heck, when I used the Toyota one (to be fair, we did have something there we were interested in seeing), I actually saw a Camry that I really liked. Didn't buy it of course, but if the situation had been a little different, it could have led to an enexpected sale.

isellhondas · March 2012

For the marketing people, this may seem like a good idea but in reality it arttracts people looking for their 50.00.

The marketing people dont' work on straight commission. They have no idea what it's like to get stuck with a "non serious buyer" on a worthless test drive.

Yes, some cars have probably been sold as a result of promos like this one but these sales would be few and far apart to say the lease.

corvette · March 2012

I've only done a couple of the "cash for test drive" promotions, but I always ask the salesperson if they want to go for a ride or skip the formalities and fill out the form. I've never had to take a test drive.

corvette · March 2012

Meant to reply to this yesterday but Edmunds' servers were acting crazy.

I am a longtime fan of BBC's Top Gear, the unedited version, not the BBC America version which adds commercials and deletes "Star in a Reasonably Priced Car." Yes, many of the stars are people we've never heard of, but it's kind of like eating your spinach...

Anyway, I watched one episode of Top Gear America and will not watch another. There is no chemistry between the hosts, there are no brilliant minds doing the music selection, and the camera work is not cinema-quality like it is on the real Top Gear. Also, the "ringers" they put behind the hosts in the studio aren't nearly as cute in the American version. (For those who don't watch, the BBC version is notorious for taking 1-2 attractive young women from the audience and placing them directly above the shoulder(s) of the hosts.)

roadburner · March 2012

I would never subject this (or any) car to track driving and I have no use for a stick. I guess that makes me a "Dork" too, huh?

Not at all- my reaction was primarily due to the guy's attitude, best summed up as:
"I don't want to even think about driving; my only goal is to keep my car nice and shiny."
If he had said, "I like the automatic, it's just as fast(or faster) as the stick." or something similar, I wouldn't have a problem.
But this fool made it clear that he was all about wearing his BMW instead of driving it.

tjc78 · March 2012

I've never had to take a test drive.

I think it matters when you go in. If on a busy Saturday I see Isell's point, OTOH if its on a weeknight where not much is going on what is the harm?

I never go car shopping on a Saturday. It is always on a weeknight, because the dealers are slower. In my neck of the woods there are dealers everywhere so its pretty easy to hit two or even three between 6-9 at night.

isellhondas · March 2012

The only problem with going in late is the fact that as 9:00 nears, the salespeople are going to be reluctant to take a new "up". MAybe it's been a long day and they just want 9:00 to roll around so they can get to their families.

If an "up" walks in at 8:45, they know that if the up wants to drive a car that they will be there until at least 9:30. In addition if the store knows they have a customer out on a drive, the sales manager and F&I person have o stay until the customer either buys a car or leaves.

So, what is the best time?

I would say the morning hours on a weekday or even a weekend. Everyone is fresh and everyone wants to kick off the morning with a couple of sales!

stickguy · March 2012

I have gone in at 10:00 on a weekday and been the only non-employee in the place.

tjc78 · March 2012

I understand, I also wouldn't go in at 8:45 expecting a test drive. I'm pretty respectful in that fact. I think the latest I would go is 8.

When I bought my LaCrosse I went in right after work. I took the manager's demo for a nice long test drive and got back around 7 or so. I started working #s, etc. It got to be around 8:30 and a deal was struck. I said I would write a check for the deposit and pick it up the next day.

Nope.... they wanted me to drive it off the lot that night and everyone stayed until about an hour after closing.

stever · March 2012

Heaven forbid you go home and sleep on it and change your mind. Not that a CCBA'er ever changes their mind.

stickguy · March 2012

Must be a Burns thing. When I bought my Accord, I went in after dinner, test drove, haggled a bit (OK, I low balled the heck out of them), and did not come to an agreement.

right after I get home (15-20 minutes away), I get a call, and they want to keep discussins. I figured they caved, so I held firm, and they said fine. At this point, it must have been 8:00 on a weekday. I said OK, how about I come in tomorrow to finsih paperwork, take the car, etc.

Nope. They got almost nasty, that if I wanted the deal (which they chased after me to take, after I had walked out) I had to come back that night. So, I did.

It was IIRC already after closing when I got back, and by the time the prepped the car, did the paperwork, moved the stuff from my trade, etc. and I got out of there it was about 10:30.

tjc78 · March 2012

Maybe, but I had that happen at another dealer too. I guess like Steve just said you may change your mind. I had no problem signing whatever, and writing the check. It was a matter of my convenience as I was there alone with my Fiance's car and had no one to drive the car back. It was no biggie (The deal was good, and I wasn't walking away from it) we just picked up the car on our way into the office the next morning.

Burn's has been really good to deal with. I would buy a car from them anytime (I'm talking Hyundai and Buick/GMC) I've never been in their Honda dealership.

My Stepfather had a similar situation to yours at the "T" auto mall Honda dealer. The only difference was he said I'm not driving back there tonight. He said I'll buy the car tomorrow night at that price, they said "No" tonight only. My stepdad responded and bought something else. I sometimes don't understand the hard sell. Unless its the last day of the month a sale is a sale. What difference would it have made to make the deal the next day?

roadburner · March 2012

I've only done a couple of the "cash for test drive" promotions, but I always ask the salesperson if they want to go for a ride or skip the formalities and fill out the form. I've never had to take a test drive.

I always go in at a slow time, in this case I wanted to test drive both cars, but often dealers have just stamped my ticket.

ateixeira · March 2012

Mazda sent me an invite to Zoom Zoom Live, at the Fed Ex Field parking lot, and a little later I ended up with a new MX-5.

I may have bought one anyway, but some times these promotions do work.

stickguy · March 2012

I think the logic is that once you get a ~~sucker~~ (er, customer) in the showroom, they are ripe to be sold to.

and keep in mind, there is a lot of sophisticated technology behind these mailers. the people that get them get them for a reason.

I expect to get a slew more now (Yeah!) since I just used 2 of them. And I don't feel guilty, since I am in the market for 2 cars this year.

stickguy · March 2012

crud. just lost a big long post. Nuts.

quick version: Acura TL got an oil change this week when my son was home on break (it lives with him at college). Express oil guy noted a little leaking underneath. but of course, if you want to know what or how much, it has to move to the 'real" serivce department, and will require a diagnostic fee.

given it has 161K on it, I would be more suprised if nothing was seeping.

so told the kid to keep an eye on it (look on the ground when it has been parked, and it is always in the same spot at his house). And check the oil along with tires before travelling.

I suspect it is minor age-appropriate seepage. the guy that did the brakes in December didn't note anything, and they do a pretty thorough once over when they have it in the air.

at this point, it just needs to last without costing more money for about 15 more months until he graduates. Hopefully a job happens right away, and he will be on his own with it.

Current plan is to keep it and just run it until it gives up (or something major goes) to save money. And he does really like it. But, he always wants a BMW someday (we are having a race to see who gets there first!), and once the first you paychecks clear, who knows what will happen.

Gotta love him though. When I mentioned getting a basic newer car as a first step, he points out that he has been spoiled having a "luxury" car for so long, and doesn't think he can give that up!

isellhondas · March 2012

Antime a new car doesn't "roll" after th sale is made, there is an excellent chance the deal will blow up. In fact, I would think the chances are greater than 50%.

If it's a new car, some neighbor or friend will tell the buyer they paid too much, should have bought something else or whatever. Or the buyer will go to some Prices Paid Forum and read about how someone bought the same car for less money (right!).

If it's used car, they buyer may continue shopping looking for a better deal, or they will pick up a Consumer's Reports where that car is on the "Cars to Avoid" list.

Any smart store will do ANYTHING to insure the car rolls after the sale has been made! If it doesn't leave the lot the deal can be unwound.

isellhondas · March 2012

It's possible in this case that there was dealer cash on that car that enabled them to make that deal and it's possible the dealer cash ended that night.

I have told customers..." I won't be able to do this deal tomorrow" and I told them the reason. Sometimes they would roll their eyes and say " Well, 'll just take my chances".

It was almost fun the next day when I would tell them that yesterday's deal was no longer possible. I would tell them that I had warned them but maybe they didn't believe me.

I once left out store at 1:30 AM. It was New Years Eve on a Saturday. We were hammered all day and we just kept writing deals.

stever · March 2012

Good points in both your posts. I shopped the '99 van on Christmas Eve and did the deal on New Year's Eve, thinking that maybe I got a bit better deal doing it on the last day of the year.

Found out a few days later that Nissan had "extended" the year for dealer bonus purposes so I still left money on the table. Well, I would have anyway; I'm not that good of a negotiator and not a grinder. If the dealer gets agressive I'm more likely just to walk and wait a month or two for the next deal (did just that with the Odyssey I was ready to buy in '98 when the dealer jacked me around). They're just cars. Sacrilege I know.:)

rayainsw · March 2012

' They're just cars.'
Huh?
What?
- Ray
Huh?
What?

qbrozen · March 2012

Well, sure, they ARE just cars.

Just like what you are breathing is just air. What you are drinking is just water. What you are living is just life.

isellhondas · March 2012

I'm about the same as you are. I'm an excellent negotiator but I'm not petty and I'm not a grinder. I'll just thank them and leave.

Lie to me or make me upset and I can turn very nasty in a heartbeat and I know that. As I get older, I just walk away from situations like that.

I never have a fear of loss.

nyccarguy · March 2012

I finally picked up my new 328xi last night. All I can say is WOW!

Titanium Silver was certianly not my 1st color choice as Silver has been so wildly popular lately, but it is gorgeous. It shines bright and really shows off the sexy creases in the body panels. The 17" V Spoke (Style 285) wheels are really sharp looking and they fill out the wheel wells nicely. I just love the way this car looks from every angle. The short over hangs, the LED tail lights, the Xenon headlights. The design is simple and elegant. It will most certainly stand the test of time as most BMWs do.

I have one small issue with the fit & finish and am not sure what to do about it as I did lease the car. The panel gap between the hood and the right front 1/4 panel is bigger on the right side than on the left. It's not Chrysler K car big or 1980s GM big, but I notice it.

The interior is gorgeous. Perfect fit & finish. High quality interior materials. The seats are nice and firm.

Insert key fob, step on the brake, push the start button and the 230 horsepower inline six fires up and then smooths down to a nice idle. Steering is tight and very precise. Acceleration is smooth and the transmission shifts crisply. The ride is very firm, but nowhere near harsh. I haven't even tried to push the car's abilty at all, but love the balance and control of a RWD chassis (even though my car is AWD). The car drives like a solid chunk of steel going down the highway. I love it!

This car has set the bar for me. I think it'll give my beloved Prelude a run for its money in the handling department too.

Stickguy - I said it before & I'll say it again, you should lease yourself one of these instead of buying a used E46.

qbrozen - as a recovering speeder, I'm finding it difficult to keep my 328xi under 70. How on god's green earth do you keep your 135i below triple digits?

stickguy · March 2012

your wife is just a woman...

stickguy · March 2012

Sounds nice. By the time my daughter gets out of college I might be able to afford one!

Actually, the new model sounds really nice too. My issue of AUtomobile came yesterday, and they had a entry luxo car comparison test (might have been MT, they both came).

The BMW (328i) destroyed the field. Not even close. For all the reasons you mentioned among others. Just pricey.

Interestingly enough, the Volvo S60 (T5) finished 2nd. They really liked that car too.

tjc78 · March 2012

The panel gap between the hood and the right front 1/4 panel is bigger on the right side than on the left.

There is no question in my mind that if it is bothering you have it fixed. You do not want to be looking at something that bugs you on a 40K+ car for the next three years.

Congrats again!

fintail · March 2012

I bet the hood hinges can be re-aligned. I'd ask nicely and see if the shop can do it, or even a good bodyshop should could probably do it at minimal cost.

rayainsw · March 2012

Sounds excellent!
Did you ask the dealer about the panel gap?
- Ray
Also 'hooked'....

stever · March 2012

they ARE just cars

And my refrig is just another appliance too. I use my car to get to the clean air and water, but lately it's mostly used to search out new restaurants.

qbrozen · March 2012

qbrozen - as a recovering speeder, I'm finding it difficult to keep my 328xi under 70. How on god's green earth do you keep your 135i below triple digits?

who says I do? :P

It is quite deceiving, though. Just this morning, I was merging on a busy highway. I goosed it to slot in to the middle lane and wound up at 90mph and closing fast on the car in front before I even realized it.

nyccarguy · March 2012

Excellent suggestion! I did bring it up to the salesman today & he said the same thing you did. I'll bring it by & have their body shop look & make adjustments.

akangl · March 2012

USAA was amazingly quick about finishing things up with the accident. Should have the payout on the Escort in the bank today. After the deduct ($250) and salvage value ($306) we end up with $1466 plus we get to keep the car. I have to go to DMV next week and take care of the inspection plus get a new title for the car. I'm glad we went this route.

Still working on our move out of state, hopefully sometime this summer. We've found we can safely pull a 20'-24' trailer with the Civic in it plus what few things we are bringing with us and stay under the tow capacity for the truck. We did talk about trading the truck in, but that seems silly, I just can't make sense of it.....not even in my CCB mind (does this mean I'm cured??). Hubby flat refuses to give up the Civic, you'd think after 97k he'd be sick of it, but nope, he loves his car.

stickguy · March 2012

If you can keep under the tow rating, then should not be a problem. When you were talking about the alcan, mountains, and being 4K over then it was looking a little dicey!

I would not mind liquidating damned near everything until I could fit all my worldly possessions into a UHaul. Goot way to start fresh. My wife, however, is attached to everything. Will be lucky to get her to weed out enough to get it down to 1 tractor trailer instead of 2.

tjc78 · March 2012

Isn't it amazing the amount of stuff you can cram into a house? I still have one rule, nothing ever goes into the attic. If the storage area in the basement gets too full its time to start chucking stuff.

stickguy · March 2012

I just about break into tears every time I go into the unfinished half of th ebasement. With all the work we did recently, that became the repository for stuff we cleared from the other rooms, and it is chock full now. I need a massive garage sale. or a dumpster.

thank goodness though we have a newer house with the type of attic that you can't use for storage.

It is supposed to be the project for this year to get rid of a bunch of the crap down there. Just takes some time. Once I can clear out some of the big pieces (furniture) I will have soem room to work.

also have to convince the wife we can get rid of the little kids stuff, since my youngest is 16, we don't expect grandkids anytime soon, and both my kids have said don't save it for us anyway!

only good thing is that the finished areas are better than they were. Just consolidated all the excess in one place.

akangl · March 2012

When you were talking about the alcan, mountains, and being 4K over then it was looking a little dicey!

Was looking like we were going to be 2500 over and I wasn't willing to push it that far. The nice thing is we moved 3 1/2 years ago and got rid of a TON of stuff, so we don't have a lot right now. We won't be taking beds since we need new ones anyway and there's lots of other stuff that needs replacing so its a good time to offload a lot of stuff. Not to mention there's only 3 of us going since the military is moving our son's stuff. I don't mind parting with a whole lot more stuff, there's very little I won't part with and that stuff can be shipped to my mom until we get to where we are going.

This spring is a GOOD time for a huge yard sale! I just have to be careful not to shop the yard sales this summer.......a very bad habit I have

I think I'm going to take the $$$ from the Escort and buy a canopy for the
F-150, not a huge fan of them, but it will make the truck a little more useful. Plus in 8 days I pick up my new chocolate lab puppy and it sure would be nice to put him in the back after a trip to the lake.......much safer with a canopy than an open bed. I really hope he doesn't develop a taste for leather seats or seatbelts....

kyfdx · March 2012

your wife is just a woman...

Oh... you've met...

breld · March 2012

Hey Michael - are you still planning on going to the auto show tomorrow? We're planning on getting there in the morning. Let me know if you're still planning on it and maybe we can meet up.

isellhondas · March 2012

About that panel gap...be honest now...

Would most people even notice this? Are you being overally picky?

Yes, in a perfect world, everything should be "perfect" but few things ever are.

Unless it stands out or really bothers you, I wouldnt' do anything.

I once watched a guy in a Mercedes Store "religh" a door that had some minor misalignment.

300 pound weighlifter type.

" Where is the customer....is he watching?"

" Nope, he's in looking at new cars with a coffee in his hand"

He grabs door top and bottom...." HEAVE HO"

Not quite perfect? Heave Ho again....FIXED!!!!

If people ever knew.

If people knew how longshoremen drive them off the boats....fun to watch!

stever · March 2012

You're moving south Akangl? That's a big move. When we left, everything we owned (after 20 years there) fit into our minivan. Took a year to sell all of it, then it took less than a year to accumulate a house full of junk. Craigslist was great for our move last year from Boise; less hassle than trying to deal with all comers at a yard sale.

akangl · March 2012

You're moving south Akangl? That's a big move.

That's the plan. Not sure if its going to take a month or a year, all depends on hubby's job.

I've been listing things on CL and slowly selling things off. I told hubby to choose between the 2 freezers......one is 8 years old and one is 25 years old....he told me to sell the 8 year old one, go figure. A lot of our stuff I'll be giving away to friends or needy families since its really not worth my time to sell and I'd rather help others out. The plan is to be down to 2 couches, 1 desk, 1 freezer, 2 dressers, and personal items.

We measured his Civic and its 15 feet long, so ideally a 24' trailer would work great if we can find one. I think we can make a 20' work though. The truck needs a canopy and new tires before we go as well, I have a set of 20" sport truck tires for it and somehow I think the Alcan would eat those for lunch!

corvette · March 2012

Freezers? I would dump them both and buy a newer, more energy efficient one when I got to my destination. It would probably use less than half the energy of the older one.

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