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To change the subject, there has been a lot of talk about oil leaks due to possibly not breaking in the car properly. This seems to be more with the 996's and earlier. I don't remember reading about any 997's with this problem. I have a cabinet shop in my garage and have to park my 997 outside in order to work which is probably 4 to 5 times a week. Engine on about 30 seconds. The car has 13,800 miles and let's assume it was broken in properly. We usually go for a one or two hour drive on a
Sat. or Sun. with a lot of freeway driving at 60 to 80 mph. Don't drive it during the week. I'm assuming that having the engine on for just 30 seconds is better than driving it for 5 to 10 mins. Just like not turning the engine on at all, right? Or, does it matter at all, assuming that the car was broken in properly. This stuff about the problems not showing up until 45 or 50,000 is scary. And, these guys that are having so much oil consumption on cars that costs over $70,000 is just unbelievable. Any thoughts?
The lesson I was given by my dealer on break in was simple. Don't turn the key unless you are going to drive the car for 15-20 minutes - i.e. until the oild temperature (not just water temp) gets to full operating level, and then keep it there for another 5+ minutes. This gives the seals, gaskets, rings and all engine parts the opportunity to full expand and contract during the break in period.
I have 19.2k miles on my 2005 and just added my first 3/4 quart of oil since it was changed at 13k miles. I do think the 997 model addressed most (but perhaps not all) RMS leak design issues, but there were reports on RennTech of at least 1-2 owners that had RMS leaks on 997 models. Don't recall the circumstances.
20,000 miles or 2 years between oil changes does sound like a long time, but the engine holds 9+ quarts and the oil filter is a large $40+ filter. And everyone from Porsche that I talked to said that this was a specific design feature/intent of the 997 model - i.e. reduced maintenance intervals.
If you didn't get that, ask for it. My selling dealership provides it up front on all CPO cars.
Speaking of remotes, I finally figured out how to program the remote button on the headliner. Since my garage door opener in not a fixed code, I had to do an extra step and go up to the motor and push a button then go back to the front of the car with the remote or go inside the car, I forgot, to get the built in remote activated, but it now works.
I'm a little confused about the programed seat adjustment. I was able to program the seat using button 2. Button 1 is suppose to put the seat where you want it when you open the door with the key. It didn't work, but I may not of had the ignition on when I was programing. However, what good is having the seat adjustment linked to the key if you only use the remote?
Also, with no bluetooth, I assume the only way I can use the built in phone is to have a cell phone number just for the car. That sucks. I heard you can buy a bluetooth device, cheap, and put it on the sun visor. Also, do you know if the porsche navigation system is worth getting? I heard it was expensive and not very good. As long as I'm rambling, I saw a 928 GTS yesterday. I checked it out the the internet and saw that they were made from 1978 to 1995. I believe that GTS was only made in the latter years and that they were only 77 shipped to the U.S. in the last year of production. The car was very expensive for its time and was actually suppose to replace the 911 which was loosing popularity. I guess that didn't happen.
At 19k+ miles I'm only using about 3/4 quart per 3,000 miles. I think that's about average for a 997 model that was properly broken in. One quart per 750 miles seems like very high consumption, based upon what I've heard from other Porsche owners, and would cause me to think that either the car wasn't broken in properly and/or that there was a leak.
I don't think the 928 was ever really considered a likely 911 replacement. Front engine, 4 seat hatchback GT that was a comfortable highway cruiser but never came close to matching the visceral sports car feel or performance of the 911. Not only did their sales volume drop like a rock at the end of thier life, their resale value did too. According to an old KBB I have, a 1995 GTS had a base price of $86,000 new and, after three years, was only worth $51,500. A similar vintage 1995 911 Carrera Coupe had a base price of $63,000 ($23k less than the 928) and after three years, was still worth $55,000 ($3.5k more than the 928).
Buy the best used Porsche you can afford and book it for service regularly with a shop that knows what it is doing. Just because it says "German Auto Repair" doesn't mean they really know Porsche. One simply does not go to Jiffy Lube to say $50 bucks either.
Porsches are the most reliable and durable high performance car you can buy, period, end of story.
I definitely agree.
But is the cayenne as reliable as other porsches?If compare to other suvs
I remember the first time I looked at a Cayenne engine. I was shocked. I said to myself "OH, now I know what Porsche did with all those leftover 928 engines--LOL!"
Sooo familiar.
The great thing about a Porsche 911 type is that if you buy it new or slightly used and take really good care of it, it will be running years---decades---after every Ferrari or Corvette or other "supercar" has either gone to the breaker or to the restoration shop for a resurrection.
In the long run, it's the cheapest supercar you can own, if you amortize use over years.
A 911 may cost you $150 a month to keep happy, but a Ferrari will cost you $1.50 a mile, at least. And that's a number I have carefully researched.
I'm sorry I haven't posted for a while, and I hope this isn't a re-post, but I've got a question and I need your recommendations.
I've got an '07 Carrera S Cab, and I need to think about Bluetooth to comply with the upcoming California law about hands-free phone use. These are my options, as I see them...
1. I can skip the Bluetooth and add the "phone module" and purchase a dedicated phone number for the car, which seems a total waste to me.
2. I can purchase a Bluetooth "earpiece" for when I am driving in the Porsche, but it seems to me it could be quite impossible to use when the top is down.
3. I can have the dealer install Bluetooth that integrates into the existing Nav system. If anyone has done this, please tell me what you know about it, and if it really works well or not.
4. I can break the hands-free law and take my chances.
Please give me your recommendations, and especially if someone has installed the #3 choice, let me know what you think about it.
Thanks!
TagMan
BTW, the Bluetooth earpieces pretty much suck, even if you open a window, much less put a top down.
How much time do you really spend on the phone in the car? If it is not a signifcant amount "Honey I'm running late, don't put dinner on yet," then I say fracture the law. If you do mulitmillion dollar merger deals from your cell while driving, get the integrated bluetooth, put the top up and the AC on.
You might want to check with the lettering of the law. For example in New Jersey the police can't just pull you over for talking on your cell phone, you have to be fracturing another law in order for them to pull you over. ie: Speeding & Talking on your phone or running a stop sign & talking on your phone.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Now, THAT looks like a very good quality solution! I've contacted my dealer to see if they are familiar with this. I believe they are, because I thought I heard the service manager mention it in the past.
I'll keep you posted. If I find out anything interesting, I'll let you all know.
Thank you all so very much!!
TM
I assume you have never driven a 911, otherwise you would have bought one by now. I would throw in another $20,000 and get a type 997, 2005 to present, I believe. Why not get the latest technology and most comfortable ride, not to mention a faster car. I have never driven a pre 997, but everyone says the improvements (of the 997) are amazing. I've heard that the 997 uses only 20% of the parts of the 996. Test drive both, and let me know which you like better.
I never thought about a sports car until about 6 months ago, so I test drove several over a three month period. When I drove the porsche 911, I bought one the next day (2006 coup,13,000 miles, $65,000. plus tax and license, lot of extras). I can't explain it. Everything about the car is quality, handling, and speed. I've even heard the purpose of the horizontally opposed cylinders is to help keep the center of gravity low. I even offer to take my wife to work just to drive the car.
You asked about maintenance. Check out the maintenance schedule at the dealer or maybe on line. Heck, you don't even have to change oil until 20,000 miles per the manual. I'm cheap and can make a dollar holler, but I'll spend whatever it takes to have a porsche. Life is too short, buy the car now!
I started looking around and found a Jabra bluetooth speaker phone at BestBuy for $80.00 which I bought. It seems to work very well, but I haven't tried it in the car. I have a coup and I don't think it's loud enough for a Cab. I started thinking, what's the difference between this device and talking on your cell phone speaker hooked to your visor. Ok, you can keep the phone in your pocket and the on button on the bluetooth device in a lot bigger (touching the face of the device will answer the call).
Jabra had an interesting device for $129.00 that uses your car's FM tuner. You don't need a battery and the sound would be as loud as you want since it's using your car's speakers. When you get a call you turn on the radio and go to a certain frequency, which you can pre-select, so you just punch a button. The salesperson said sometimes you get interference. I'm thinking about trading in for this system. Can anyone recommend this over a speaker phone?
1. Ideal color combo is Silver or Black exterior with Gray interior. Why is this combination so hard to find in these years? The majority I've seen on autotrader.com are Black/Black. A few are Black/Tan or Silver/Tan. Need a tan or silver interior b/c of the heat during the summer in the dirty south.
2. Should I consider waiting a few more years to get another year? If so, what year is ideal (keeping in mind my price point)? Again, only looking at 1999 or newer. I don't mind waiting (and saving up) for several more years if it means I'm getting a car that most enthusiasts agree is a car that is more reliable with improved features.
3. Is there a big difference mechanically/reliably speaking between 1999 and 2000 year models? I know about the RMS issues with 996s so I'll be sure to steer away from one with this problem (getting it checked out at the dealer first).
4. I know about the pre-inspection and have read most of the articles/threads on 996s. Any other good sites to look at?
5. Is there a consensus around how many miles are too many? I've seen C2s with 60,000 miles to 115,000 miles
6. Does the plain C2 come with stability management/traction control? or is that only in the C4?
I believe PSM is standard on all 911's. Don't know if it was available on pre 997's. PASM is an option on the base 911 and standard on the S. Again, I'm talking 997's which I guess does not help you out a lot. The 997's started in 2005. The 996's went from 1997 to 2004 with the water cooled engine and the kidney shaped headlights. That web site Wikipedia will tell you more about the history of porsche than you would ever want to know.
Maybe in Alabama that is possible. There is no way that in California traffic, and with my lifestyle, I could EVER conveniently just get on and off the freeway at my desire, and then find a convenient place to park, in order to take an important call. It's just plain not realistic. Not even close. Not in today's world. Not just from a business standpoint, but even a personal standpoint. I've also got a wife and kids... and life happens spontaneously. I need to be in the loop and available to my family when it is necessary.
Now that said, I'm not one to yak on a phone while 'm driving. I don't like doing that. This isn't rocket science to me. I just need a quality functional hands-free system that will comply with the law, and give me the convenience that I need.
From what I have learned in the last few days, I believe that the TOOKI system is absolutely the best one out there. It makes no sense whatsover, IMO, to use the Porsche telephone components that require the use of a sim card inserted into the dash. That's just plain old-fashioned and stupidly over-priced. It requires that the sim card be removed from your phone and re-inserted into the car. That's ridiculous to take apart a phone to transfer the sim card back and forth every time getting in and out of the car. Also, the idea of a dedicated sim card for the car means a dedicated phone number which means an added number to the wireless account. That's also a total waste, because the car would end up with it's own phone number that is different from my normal number. I sure don't want THAT experience. Besides, an iPhone doesn't even have a removeable sim card.
So... Bluetooth is the answer. TOOKI looks to be the best because it fully integrates into the existing hardware, is a quality approach, and while it is a bit pricey, it is not absurdly expensive.
I was quoted about $1100, which is made up of about half parts and half labor.
Supposedly, it is a fully-integrated quality approach. That's what I'm after.
In light of the new upcoming hands-free law, the idea of NOT having the capability in my car is too unrealistic and old-fashioned for me.
My other cars already have Bluetooth connection to my phone and it's so quick and easy to answer or place a call when necessary. A few seconds, and it's a done deal.
Simple. Quick. Convenient.
No... I'm not about to pull out of traffic and find a place to park to take a simple quick phone call.
TM
I'll give you my experience with adding these units in. We have used the Tooki system and fully integrated it into the PCM. The only thing that sticks out is a tiny microphone near the rearview camera.
If I recall correctly, parts and labor had run around $900. It is a great system. However, the only thing that I would bring up is, Who is installing it? We have had some pretty shoddy work done by aftermarket guys and they literally tear the wiring apart leaving a Porsche that sometimes electronically malfunctions. At the very least, try and see if your local Porsche dealership techs will do it and warranty it. It might be worth the extra $200 just to have that piece of mind. Our dealership does that now. We're just tired of the issues revolving around 3rd party installers.
On another note, the '09 911's are rumored to have the technology upgrade. This isn't official yet, but a little birdie tells me that it will be soon. Porsche is rumored to have finally broken down and included touch screen Nav, bluetotooth and Ipod auxiliary hookups with their new model (not to mention a host of other changes).
Maybe it is time for an upgrade? Incidentally, how is the 1 Series treating you?
-moo
You are right. It makes more sense to get a bluetooth earpiece or tooki than paying the "666" option.
Here is a DIY on Tooki from
Rennlist
But I wonder if going for new wouldn't have been better. Because Porsche has fantastic resale value , you paid 65K for a 2006. At 13,000 miles it is already more than halfway into needing four new tires for maybe $1500. What would a new 2008 have cost? What did you save?
Maybe the way to go on a 997 is to buy it new if you want only minimal options and to buy it used if you want lots of options, with the hope that you can pick up these "used" options cheaply. I for one don't believe the sales guys when they say that certain options "residualize well". Sure color is important, but is a used 997 worth $600 more after three years because it has the $1200 Boise option that "residualizes" at 50%?
My personal taste in a 997 would be to buy a new C2 couple with minimal options and just enjoy it. A C2 with just power seats and leather just might do it. The rest I don't see as desireable, some I see as tacky or even undesirable. The standard wheel/tire set up gives a better ride with less expensive replacement tires and less road noise than larger wheels and boots. The C4 option looks attractive for those of us in the Northeast, but how often are you really going to be driving a Porsche in ice and snow? I''d rather not decrease the luggage area, increase the weight and cost, and have larger, noisier boots in my left ear. Heated seats? Again, they sound good to anyone in New England, but really how often are you going to be out in the car on a 15 degree day? I can easily pass on the $1900 (!) "sport exhaust", no one on this board seems to think much of the Boise option, and do I really want a "sports chrono" on the dash when my $200 runner's chrono watch will do just fine? The color coded seat belts and Porsche crests on the seats are tacky. The rear wiper? Funny, no one ever talks about it. I suspect that it is a "good" thing to have and well worth the money.
YMMV
I'm enrolled in the Porsche high performance driving school on September 9th and 10th in Alabama. Besides wanting to know the limits of the car and how to regain control, if it gets away from me, I am hoping to learn more about the S. Maybe some day I'll be able to part with this car for another porsche, but not now.
Why aren't you people talking about the 2009's with the sequential-manual transmission and dual clutch? It sounds like a radical change from my 6 speed manual. Will it have those paddles on the back side of the steering wheel that I have heard about in race cars? I read the 2009's will be faster because of direct fuel injection.
You know, there is a "Poor Mans Watch Forum" (PMWF.com) for those of us that think that a $10,000 Rolex is a bad joke and in worse taste. Because you and I think a lot alike maybe we should start a Poor Man's Porsche Forum" for people who think that options like the $500 (Porsche factory cost of goods sold = two cents) wheel spacer deal or the $1900 "sports muffler" are the last straws for any rational Porsche buyer. (Didn't JC Whitney used to have a "muffler cut out kit" for $19 so when you went by your girlfriend's house you could really let it rip?)
Wikipedia states, "Gasoline direct injection or GDI is a variant of fuel injection employed in modern two and four stroke petrol engines. The gasoline in highly pressurized, and injected via a common rail fuel line directly into the combustion chamber of each cylinder, as opposed to multi-point fuel injection that happens in the intake tract, or cylinder port. GDI enables stratified charge combustion (ultra lean burn) for improved fuel efficiency and emission levels at low load. The article goes on to say, " The major advantages of a GDI engine are increased fuel efficiency and high power output."
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911/usa.aspx
Porsche Releases Information and Photos of New 2009 911 Models
New Generation 911s Combine Increased Performance with Better Fuel Efficiency
Atlanta, June 6, 2008 - Porsche today disclosed photos and details for the next generation 911 model series. Four new 911 models go on sale in September in North America – the 911 Carrera Coupe, 911 Carrera Cabriolet, 911 Carrera S Coupe, and 911 Carrera S Cabriolet. All offer a higher level of performance thanks to their all-new flat-six engines displacing 3.6 and 3.8 liters respectively. And for the first time in a Porsche sports car, engines utilize direct fuel injection (DFI) and can be coupled with the new optional 7-speed double-clutch gearbox Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), racing inspired technology and a Porsche first. The result of these new technologies allows Porsche to once again boost performance of the 911, yet improve fuel efficiency by up to 13 percent as measured in the European driving cycle.
Maximum output of the 911 Carrera with its 3.6-liter engine is up by 20 horsepower to 345. The 911 Carrera S with its 3.8-liter engine is equally impressive, up by 30 horsepower to 385. With this extra power, the Carrera S now offers a top speed of 188 mph.
The new generation 911 is available for the first time with the new Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), Porsche’s double-clutch gearbox. The seven speed gearbox combines the driving comfort of an automatic transmission with the gearshift capacity of a sequential gearbox used in race cars. Since Porsche’s double-clutch also boasts an automatic gearshift function, it replaces the former Porsche Tiptronic S automatic transmission on both the Carrera and Carrera S. PDK improves acceleration while reducing fuel consumption over the previous generation of Tiptronic S equipped 911s through optimized and adaptive gearshifts.
Porsche developed this gearshift principle for racing no less than 25 years ago. It features two parallel clutches to eliminate any interruption in power delivery and eliminates even the slightest break between gears. Porsche factory drivers benefiting from this technology were able to accelerate faster than their competitors and keep both hands on the wheel while shifting gears, thus avoiding even the slightest distraction. This pioneering achievement from Porsche’s racing efforts now gives the new 911 Carrera and Carrera S even better performance. The Carrera equipped with PDK covers 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds and the Carrera S reaches the same speed in 4.3 which is 0.2 seconds faster than with a manual six-speed gearbox. The customer in search of optimum driving dynamics even has the option to combine PDK with Porsche’s optional Sport Chrono Plus including Launch Control. The result is high-speed acceleration free of wheel spin from a standstill and a racing shift pattern to further boost performance. The Carrera equipped with the Sport Chrono Plus accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds while the Carrera S sprints to 60 mph in an outstanding 4.1.
Exterior enhancements of the new 911 stand out clearly through innovations in design and technology. The refined front bumper has larger air intakes which signal an increase in power and the newly designed dual-arm exterior mirrors give a larger field of vision to the rear of the car. LED daytime driving lights and bi-xenon headlights will be standard on all new models, as well as LED tail and brake lights. This gives the 911 an even more distinctive style and a truly unique look from the front and rear. As a further option, Porsche now also offers Dynamic Cornering Lights on all models. In Porsche fashion, these new refinements do not change the drag coefficient of the 911 as it stays at a remarkable 0.29.
The latest Porsche Communication Management system, PCM 3.0, which includes a new touchscreen feature, will be standard on all new 911s. Along with this upgraded system, options such as a hard disk drive navigation system, XM radio with XM NavTraffic capability, Bluetooth® connectivity, iPOD® port, USB port, and aux jack will be available.
2009 911 U.S. pricing starts at $75,600 for the Carrera Coupe, $86,200 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $96,800.
2009 911 Canadian pricing starts at $95,900 for the Carrera Coupe, $108,900 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $121,800.
Hope you enjoy. Fantastic changes coming in September.
-moo
All in all they seem to be having a lot more fun than the often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. Wonder why?
I see it as a positive move in the customer's best interest but also cutting out about 50 pages of options from the novel entitled "Porsche Options Catalogue". However, I'm sure and know they saved probably 80-90% of their "nickle & diming" to keep their cash flow strong and their customer base happy and evergrowing. Now I just can't wait until they release the specs on the new turbo with this flat 6 instead of the tradition horizontally opposed 6 cylinder. Hmmmm,,,,,, can you imagine a twin turbo'd 8 cylinder lying beneath that tiny engine cover - I guess I can dream but I gladly pay the gas guzzler tax on that one. Maybe then I'll finally give up my tuned 996 turbo........or just add to the collection
All my best & Keep Safe
I respect your personal opinions, but just to give you another perspective:
Heated seats are worth every penny in my Cab. I won't hesitate to put the top down at anything over 45-50 in the early spring or late fall. But even 60 will feel cold without heated seats.
Bose is lousy. The base (non-Bose) stereo in my 1995 Nissan Maxima produces far superior sound to my "upgraded" Bose 14 speaker system in the 911. But I bought an in-stock car at a $10k discount, so I ate it.
Sport exhaust? Wouldn't have bought it, given the choice, but now that I have it, combined with the sport chrono, I'd be hard pressed not to order it. No "official" claims of performance increases, but it sure as hell feels quicker in combination with the sport chrono.
Sport-Chrono. This is a must have for anybody serious about performance. Forget the chrono part (and you overpaid for a $200 runners watch). The "sport" part, which when activated noticably increases throttle response, brake response and, combined with the sport exhaust, makes the car feel at least a couple tenths quicker. After many test drives of all models, I would consider putting the $900 +/- sport chrono on a base C2 before I would pay $10k more for a C2S without it.
Rear wiper - Now there's an opportunity to save bucks. It looks ugly and you have to be going pretty damn slow to have water sitting on your rear window. This past weekend, I managed to drive through a brief 10 minute spring rain at 50 mph with my top down and golf clubs across the back seats and I had no more than 5-6 drops of rain in the car, all from the sides, not the top. Maybe on a C4 in the snow belt, but I wouldn't consider one on a C2 coupe that isn't going to see snow.
Sorry to sound like I'm picking on you, but that statement is WAY off, on a couple of counts.
First, up until now, all Tiptronics were SLUSHBOX torque converter automatics. And, while Porsche's version of that crappy (IMHO) transmission design was better than most, you can't claim that it was anything less than offensive to someone who wants direct control and crisp performance.
Second, that crappy slushbox isn't "free". Insult was added to injury by having to pay $3k+ more for a slushbox than a 6 speed in a Cayenne. The base V6 model can be ordered with a 6 speed manual and the actual performance is damn near as good as a V8 Cayenne "S" automatic - with better fuel economy as a bonus. The new Cayenne GT-S comes with a 6-speed manual for $3k less than the slushbox version and (again, IMHO) is the Cayenne that most deserves the Porsche crest on the hood. More so than the Turbo.
Torque converter slushbox automatics ought to be banished from Porsche's line-up completely. And, hopefully, the newest 911 DSG transmissions will cause that to happen over the next few years. Make no mistake, I'm still a strong personal fan of the true 6-speed three pedal manual. And I think this "launch control" gimmickry is catering to the wrong crowd that still thinks stop light drag racing is the bomb. But at least with the latest dual clutch transmissions, they have put the torque converter where it belongs - on the unemployment line.
P.S. My dealer has taken back on trade a significant number of the 911 Turbo Tiptronics he has sold since it was introduced. Almost all for manual transmisison somethings. His take is that, paddle shifters, launch control and "it's faster" marketing did little to hide that the Tiptronic has more in common with a Buick than a Ferrari F1.
Thank you for the information on the 2009's. The information on the prosche web site was very interesting. Just a couple of questions,
Porsche talks about the new generation. Does this mean that the 997 is history?
Are the new transmission and clutch offered as options only (answer may have been on the site, but I missed it)? If so, do you have any idea as to how much?
Do you see this new trans and clutch ever totally replacing the 6 speed manual, or is it more like replacing the tiptronic?