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In regards to your questions:
1. 997 history? Nope, they are referring to this as Generation 2.
2. PDK is offered as an option. Approximately 50% of the vehicles we have coming in will be with the new dual clutch system. Price? There have been no releases on pricing yet. Speculation? Probably $4k.
3. PDK replacing manual? Absolutely not. It is replacing the current Tiptronic. You can run it in automatic mode if you would like or use the shifters on the steering wheel.
It's really an awesome system. I'm excited about that, the dynamic lighting, Direct Fuel Injection and the host of extras with technology. Finally we have bluetooth!
-moo
Regarding stick shift Cayenne's, your comments are, again, correct. However, stick Cayennes have been very hard to find. Dealers tended not to order them. When I bought my Tip Cayenne, the experienced (he was over 40!) sales guy thought that given the Cayenne's weight, a Tip was more desireable. I didn't want to argue, have to special order a stiick shift, and miss out on my Section 179 income tax deduction for buying a "delivery vehcile with 6000 GVW". On my next Cayenne (yep, I''m going to get another one, independent of buying a 997) I will go for the stick. I'll have more fun than a 63 year old guy should have, and buy some emerging market bonds with the 3K I will save.
Interestingly, on some other European cars ( e.g., SAAB 9-5 and maybe some BMW's) , the default option is an automatic and if you really want to order a stick it is the same price as an auto! Does GM and Mr. Lutz really have to wonder why SAAB no longer has the sparkle and hard core owners it used to have?
Actually, I am going to consider trading my Carrera S Cab in for an '09 Coupe. It's just an idea at this point, so we'll see.
The 135i is an amazing car, but I'm already trading the 135i Coupe for a 135i Convertible. That's one reason I might get the '09 Carrera as a Coupe. Not sure yet. Mine has been nearly perfect , although the interior carbon fiber strip at the base of the windshield has warped... the dealer is going to replace it. Minor issue, that's for sure!
Stay in touch!
TM
Keep us posted.
-moo
If I recall my Porsche history correctly, the 928 was indeed intended to replace the 911, as Porsche was anticipating problems in getting an aircooled motor to meet the pollution standards of the day. Do keep in mind that both the 928 and the 911 can be considered to be 2-door coupes with "2+2" seating, and particularly in its day, the sports car paradigm was that a V8 motor was preferred than any 6.
They underestimated their consumer's preference for the 911, and as a result, the 911 soldiered on (and eventually became water cooled) and the 928 died.
What probably didn't help the 928, particularly in resale value, is that there were some (cough!) interesting design elements to it - - my understanding is that part of the wiring harness under the dash was semi-visible to the passenger compartment, so in order to avoid making it be a distraction, they chose to make all of these wires be black. Needless to say, trying to trace one black wire out of a forest of black wires makes for a nightmare to track down an electrical gremlin.
There's been some on-again, off-again efforts to bring back a 928-esque model, the most recent one being the Panamerica 4 door coupe, IIRC.
-hh
The good news is that the introduction of the Cayenne is what pretty much prompted the 'rear engine aircooled' contingent to finally accept the 914 as a 'real' Porsche, despite its VW heritage.
The great thing about a Porsche 911 type is that if you buy it new or slightly used and take really good care of it, it will be running years---decades---after every Ferrari or Corvette or other "supercar" has either gone to the breaker or to the restoration shop for a resurrection.
I can vouch for this. Around 1992, I bought a 1985 911 for $19.5K. As per NADA claimed values, its now worth around $18K...its depreciated by a whopping $2K over 15 years.
A 911 may cost you $150 a month to keep happy, but a Ferrari will cost you $1.50 a mile, at least. And that's a number I have carefully researched.
Over the past 15 years, I've gone through a couple of sets of tires, repaired & updated the A/C from R-12 to R-134, replaced the sunroof gasket, replaced the 915 transmission synchros (and clutch, while it was open), plus other miscellany...all told, probably still under $10,000 in total maintenance costs. Adding in the above depreciation (but not counting gasoline or insurance), I'm still at less than $1000/year, although there are a couple of asthetic items that I have to decide if to drop the coin to take care of: shrink cracks in the vinyl dashboard ($3K labor), and the leather on the driver's seat is just about at its end of life.
But then again, what does one really expect for a 23 year old car? Well, just this past weekend, my wife asked if I might want to drive it from NJ to TN next summer. That should give you an idea of how solid its mechanicals are.
-hh
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
The "problem" with the 928, if you want to call it that, was that it was relatively heavy, more luxurious, but not particularly nimble, and really never was perceived as a sports car. It was always a GT car. If it were around today, it might be viewed as competition for the BMW 650i/M6 or even the AM V8, but not the 911 or Ferrari 430.
According to my dealer, the 928 buyers were more inclined to be higher income versions of 924/944/968 buyers. But not someone who came in looking specifically at the 911 as a "sports car" purchase.
I agree, although my more generalized complaint is that IMO, NADA book values seem to always be overly optimistic.
In general, I figure that it would cost be around $5K to correctly restore the two current cosmetic shortcomings. As I alluded to, the killer on the dash is the huge amount of labor involved, as the dash can only be removed after the windshield has been popped out (hopefully without breaking it).
In general, the remedial fix used on most cars in this vintage has been to cover it up by throwing on a dashboard rug or skin. The skin is the better solution, but my dash is blue and as of the last time that I checked, only black skins are currently in production. The local independent Porsche shop has the availability of this part on their 'watch list' for me.
I don't think any performance car amortizes as well over the years as a Porsche 911.
Agreed, and this was my point. Even with my current cosmetic shortcomings, the absolute worst case is to claim that its worth literally zero, which works out for me to an average rate of depreciation of $100/month over my ownership timeline.
-hh
Now where did that old "I don't like SUVs why do you?" thread disappear to? Its needed more now than ever!
Things have been busy with us over the last couple of years - a lot of work stuff, but some personal downtime too; (my newer photography website if you're interested).
We're getting back into a car-buying cycle for the Mrs, so I've been poking around Edmunds again...maybe next year, she'll let me trade in my '85 for a 997, although I've been sniffing at Caymans for awhile too. Remind me to tell you of my visit to the Mercedes & Porsche museums and Porsche factory too last September - - unfortunately no photos inside, as they were manufacturing the 2008s but hadn't done the press release for them yet.
-hh
I can certainly agree with that, particularly as how you go on to mention about it being an "upsell" for potential 924/944/968 buyers.
I think that what Porsche overlooked is that while they did have a customer demographic who wanted more luxury, a stronger contingent of these consumers desired the marquee benchmark (the 911), but could only afford the 944's lower price point. As the 944 (and 968) creeped up in price, the price gap to the 911 narrowed, which resulted in self-canabalizing sales and the inevitable discontinuation of the 4-cyl {924/944/944T/968} product line.
I suspect that the Boxster has been mostly successful in avoiding this fate through a careful product-price placement combination of lower price and being a convertible, which tends to move its price point comparison from the 911 coupe to the higher priced 911 Targa and/or 911 Convertible.
FWIW, I do find it interesting that today, that the cheapest new Porsche isn't the Boxster or Cayman, but is actually the Cayenne SUV.
-hh
Perhaps there's some crossover between a Boxster S and a 911 type, but if you poll the demographics for each type of car, especially non-S vs. 911 type, you'll notice a distinct difference I think in most cases. Not many women are fond of the 911 as an everyday driver IMO.
But yeah, Porsche gets the best of both worlds with these two different types.
I'd still drive 928s if they weren't such maintenance hogs. Fabulous car.
There's 9 months/11K miles left on the warranty, but no CPO and I'll be trading in my 01 996 C2 for it.
I know l should have a CPO, but as its still under porsche warranty l feel it should be ok. Any big problems should make themselves known in the next 9 months or so ( l think).
Would be grateful for your thoughts on this.
I was told my 2005 911S Cab is worth (private sale) in the neighborhood of $65k with 21k miles and 13 months left on warranty. I have all of your options, plus some (leather, sport exhaust, etc.). I would have expected a base coupe with you mileage to be closer to $50k or less. If it's an S model, then the pricing is more reasonable.
Another thing to consider is that, at least in my area, used Tiptronics go for less than a comparable 6-speed. I've seen tiptronic 911's linger on my dealer's lot for a few months and then go to auction. So there may be some good deals out there if you shop around.
Really, $55K is too high for a '05 997 C2? If so, thats good news. I only started looking a few days ago, so l will shop around a while. Not in a hurry, but after l drove a brand new 997, l have to upgrade.
BTW, what do you think about buying a car that has a factory warranty but no CPO.
-moo
That price seems high for a 911SC, but I'm not in that market, so maybe it's firmed up some... Most of the cars I see go for $9K-$13K (maybe for a good reason, though).
regards,
kyfdx
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I agree with the others---"Excellence" is making silly prices again. :P
I just did a quick check of autotrader and saw piles of low mileage 87-89s for around $20K, and that is just asking prices.
These cars aren't garage queens (for the most part)... people drive them..
Not sure why Shifty doesn't like the '84-'86 models, but any of those will be under $20K.... plus, most of the '87-'89 models, as well.. You should be able to find a really nice example for $18K-$20K... $25K+ for a Carrera of that vintage is nuts..
If I'm paying over $30K, I'd look for the '94-'96 model... (not that you'll find any, but you could look..lol).
Oh yeah... get a coupe and stay away from the targa or convertible..
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'86... big update... you get the third center-mounted brake light..
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I agree, $20K should be more than enough to get a clean driver Carrera in very good condition. Porsche Carrera engines are EASY 200,000 mile engines and I have seen them unopened up to 250K.
C2 base coupe, 39,000 miles $55k.
C2 "S" Cab, 22,000 miles $62k +/-.
In my market, the "S" alone is worth at least $5-7k in the used market Not sure about the cab vs. coupe since it is somewhat seasonal, but the list price is $10k more for the Cab. And, although 911's are not Ferrari 430's where extra miles on the odometer cost you about $2 each, the extra 17k mileage has to have some impact on resale ($5-7k?). Collectively, it looks to me like these total a $15k difference, not $7-8K+/-.
If my math is correct, then either the "low 60's" for a C2S Cab w/22k miles is the right number and the C2 coupe should be high $40's, or the $55k number for the C2 base coupe is right and the C2S Cab should be high 60's/$70k. That doesn't take into consideration the effect of a tiptronic vs. 6-speed transmission which, although a $3,400 option, my dealer insists is a detraction when it comes to resale. Especially now that the new double clutch DSG is out.
Feel free to tell me where my math/rationale is off - it certainly wouldn't be the first time.
I checked Craig's list, but didn't find much. Ebaymotors was better. I'll check the auto trader, as mentioned. I'm going for the "87-89's, but if a good SC comes along first, I'll go for it. Going to try to keep it under $20,000.
But, the rear seal deteriorates... This is the rubber seal that is mounted to the car, not the top.... It is one long seal that starts at the top of the door and goes up, across the targa bar and back down to the top of the other door... The windows and the back of the targa top seal against it.. Getting an installer that knows what they are doing is half the battle, but a replacement job can run $700-$800..
The, you have the targa skin and headliner... Both of these wear out and have to be replaced... the frame is usually good forever.. Figure another $600+ for the skin/headliner.
I had a targa.... loved it.. Always said I'd get a sunroof coupe, if I ever did it again..
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But if you re-seal them carefully, and lube up the seals, they can be tolerable. I wouldn't pay extra for one over a sunroof coupe, by no means.
Black, white, red and yellow are standard colors if someone is ordering new. I have seen, both new and used Porsche, black is the most abundant color followed by silver and gray. Is there any particular reason for that? Some colors like Gold metallic and green can be difficult to sell if one needs to later on?
What is the market for red, blue and yellow colors? I know one buy it for his/her own enjoyment but lets say if someone does not have any preference for a particular color. Any opinion on that?
Yours right, the G50 transmission and clutch is a lot more civilized than the SC's, but because of the extra weight, not as peppy as the SC with the 3.0 engine vs.the 3.2 in the '87. I would think the '84 to '86 911's would be the fastest with the 3.2 engine, but without the extra weight of the G50 trans. Can you confirm this? The auto trader was another good place to look. Thanks to all for the info.
By the way, I just got back from Birmingham, Alabama, for the two day Porsche high performance driving school. This school is owned by Porsche and is worth every penny. They use the Barbara Motorsports track which, by the way, is no relation to Skip Barbara. All new 911 and 911s. Track is 2.4 miles with 14 turns and a 350 foot elevation difference. Went off road in the cayennes too, and got to take a hot lap in a GT3. A first class operation.
Earl
IMO, my seal gray will be easier to sell than speed yellow, but on the other hand, I won't get much value for some of the $13k in options on the car. The biggest color danger is in the interior cusomization. Before I ordered that Speed Yellow, I saw one that had gone overboard with yellow guages, yellow seat stitching, yellow seat belts, yellow center console. You needed sunglasses driving at night. I've seen some other interior color combos that only the original bipolar owner could love. But short of those, I think you can be pretty safe going with almost any exterior color and keeping the option list under control.
My impression last time I drove one was that the SC is kinda doggy compared to later cars.
As for the AC, if you don't need it I'd consider removing the compressor and putting it in a box. It really gets in the way of everything.
It looks like I'll be picking up my '86 Carerra on Friday. It doesn't sound quite as nice as your car, but I am still really excited.
And never let some monkey touch your car. I've seen quite a few botched up Porsches done by people who didn't know what they were doing, and it wasn't pretty.
Any suggestions what are good interior color combination with mid night blue or red exterior colors?
I have seen used convertibles few weeks ago and there were few and now inventory is increasing as fall and winter is approaching. Can one expect 10K discount on convertibles from now and then in north east in January when there is 1 foot of snow fall? By the way I think, economy is still very soft so I don't see any rush to buy right now.
Lets say if someone is buying a brand new Porsche 911, standard warranty is 4 years what is the maximum extended warranty one can get? Is it like 8 years/100K miles or even one can go longer than that? Is there any difference in terms of maximum extended warranty on new vs certified/used Porsche?
In general who is the provider of extended warranty, Porsche or third party? Is it bumper to bumper warranty or depends?
Is there any difference for the extended warranty purchased at the time of initial purchase or with used pre-owned certified Porsche? Is this extended warranty is transferable to new owner if you decide to sell it later on?
Sorry for lots of questions.
Convertible discounts? Much better chance of that during the winter for sure. The only problem may be supply. I don't know about all the other dealers, but our dealership is huge and we have only about 7 left.
Warranty - Standard warranty is 4 yrs / 50,000 miles. Porsche recently came out with a new program where the certified warranty is IDENTICAL to the new. That pushes your warranty out to 6 yrs or 100,000 miles from the in date service. Cost is $1,990. Phenomenal warranty program. There are other programs in place, but the cost of them is quite high. I'm not sure the furthest that you can go out, but my educated guess is probably 8 years or 100,000.
Porsche is the backer for all the warranties that we sell at our dealership. It is bumper to bumper.
Is there any difference for the extended warranty purchased at the time of initial purchase or with use pre-owned certified Porsche?
I would call your local Porsche dealer and talk with the finance manager. He would probably run you a quote on both and tell you all the differences. In short, yes they are different.
How does sand beige interior (seats and dash board) with red and blue exterior. I have seen in the pictures which looks ok. I think beige works well with black exterior but I need to see in person.
Does top color same as exterior hurt its value? Like blue top on blue exterior and sand beige interior?
Habitat1
From your post I gathered your Porsche is rear wheel drive. Do you drive in winter or on icy roads? I heard most rear wheel drive cars like BMW are not good to drive in these conditions. How is your experience?
Top color definitely can hurt value. Gray top never works. Blue top rarely. Brown top extremely rarely. Black top = Good.
Asi, all our sports cars are rear wheel drive.
Good luck.
What does C4 and C4S refer to? I thought it is 4WD/AWD?
However, regarding "icy" roads, forget a 911 period, unless you also want to buy an extra set of rims and snow tires. The high performance tires that come standard on a 911 are NOT good in snow and ice, even with the AWD versions.