Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    "Now, looking at the E30 with 140k on the clock, I think we're looking at a fun factor of 6 (not a fast car, but still handles very well), a reliability/livability factor of 6, and a cost factor of 6.5, for a grand total of 18.5 on the QB scale. Even if you adjust down the fun factor and reliability scores a couple of points, it would still win this comparison. "

    Well, if reliability/liveability is important, what about a 3er the same year as the M3? Less stressed, more modern suspension/equipement, etc :confuse:
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    When I drove the M3, two main things bugged me about it - two of the same things that bugged me about my E36 convertible. The interior is made out of really crappy plastic and the air conditioner sucks.

    That has pushed me towards an Audi, but Audis are a little less fun to drive and less reliable than BMWs, sometimes horribly so.

    If I didn't require a rear seat, I'd likely be all over a early/mid '90s 300ZX. I've had one, and I know I love them. I know they came in 2+2s, but they are hard to find, not as good looking, a little heavier, and the rear seats look tiny.

    I want a used RWD, reliable, fun to drive, manual transmissioned car with a back seat for $12K or less. I'm coming up empty. Help. Life is too short to drive a Camry.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I understand that "fun" is a rather subjective experience. I think the older 325s are rather sedate and too slow (by modern standards) for fun, at least for someone used to driving higher powered sports cars. Most any modern hatchback will outperform it, but you know, that's 20 years newer a car, so let's be fair. I would have destroyed your clutch years ago the way I drive.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    "I want a used RWD, reliable, fun to drive, manual transmissioned car with a back seat for $12K or less. I'm coming up empty. Help. Life is too short to drive a Camry. "

    I guess the final-gen non-turbo Supras have all been bid up by the tuners?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    The tuners have pushed those Supras way up. There is no logical reason they should go for nearly twice as much as similar Z cars. I've looked for the prior generation Supra, but they are pretty hard to find in decent condition and most of them seem to be automatics.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I want lots of fun if I am going to put up with the foibles of a 20 yo German car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    Nice batch...

    Newport looks like a fair deal

    I bet the 66 Ford wagon owner wants a mint for it - people who use NADA as an old car reference are always dreamers.

    Corvair is a parts car, but good for that.

    Monte seller is on crack

    For some reason I like the Lada Niva, and I liked the old school Signet models for their Fiat styling and crudity, but the Samara was atrocious. I remember I would see a green Niva every time I was in old town Langley. It surely can't be worth that much.

    Eldo looks like a fair deal too.

    Rolls is a suicidal money pit, but the price is decent. I suspect based on the year that it's a grey market import.

    Frankencamaro is hideous.

    The Mazda wagon is pretty cool.

    Why do people want to restore a Mustang II? This isn't the first I've seen where someone bothered.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I always liked the looks of those Fiats as well. They have amost identical lines as the Datsun 510s, Lada Signets (same cars as the Fiat), even the older Mazda sedans, like the wagon in my previous post.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    Oh yeah, you are from Poland....you must have some memories of the Polski-Fiat...probably better than an a Lada anyway. I remember seeing a red Signet wagon in New West, which had its own Lada dealer back in the day. It seemed like an interesting car, even to my then-13 year old eyes.

    That 60s functional design has its merits.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    but I like that '77 Newport a lot. I wish they showed some pics of the interior, though. They had a wide choice of interior options, ranging from sparse, almost police car quality, on up to a cloth that would be at home in a 98 or Electra. If it has a bunch of power accessories though, I imagine it could be one of the nicer equipped models.

    That Eldorado is nice, too. Those cars pretty much define pimpiness, but I think in the right color, like that blue, they look pretty tasteful.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Had lots of memories of the Fiat. It used to be called in Poland the "large Fiat"

    image

    That was basically the Toyota Camry of Poland.

    The small Fiat, called 126 was the Toyota Corolla of Poland. Ton of them around too.
    image

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I like the Newport too, very tempted to go look at it. I know my wife would be on my case if I suggest that I want to buy it cause she doesn't like these kinds of cars. :cry:

    I am already trying to condition her that when we get our on house it's gonna have to have a huge driveway, parking area, cause I'll be buying up cars like that. :P

    I freaked her out a bit when i told her all of them will be rusty and parked on blocks in front of the house ;)

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    I am sure they had problems, but those must be like a Lexus compared to Soviet cars.

    Were there many Trabis in Poland? I used to not like those, but I have viewed a lot of youtube videos about them,and I somehow find them endearing now.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    You're going to become the Andre of the lower mainland :P
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    lol yeah it's turning out to be.

    We had quite a few Trabants in Poland, they were your 2nd lowest form of motorized transportation you could get back then.

    The Syrena came in first as being the lowest form of transport. The photos you see here were of new Syranas being built in the mid 80s (85 I think). The earlier models from late 70s had suicide front doors and a three on tree manual trannies. Overall the car was about 30 years behind the times.

    Still have the owner's manual from the one we owned, so here's some pics:

    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

    I've ridden in Trabants when I was a kid, but don't remember much, so can't give a proper review here :P

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, he'd better be careful or he'll end up with a mess like this! :shades:
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Nice Andre, is that your house/Mopar lot?

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    Wow,,,yeah, that thing is like from the early 50s.

    I find the Trabis to be amusing in their crudity, their engine note and smoke, and that they actually served their purpose. There's a good youtube video about Trabi quality control.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, that's where I live. Here's a shot looking the other way, off the deck, down towards the garage. It's theoretically a 4 car garage, 24x40, but unfortunately I started using it for storage and now I can only get three cars in. :sick: I guess that old line "Build it, and they will come" applies to junk, too?
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    What's funny about all the old cars sold in Poland was that they might have been crude and behind the times, but all of them had an ashtray for pretty much every seat, in most cases more ashtrays than there were seatbelts.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Nice Andre, nice. I think I can get away with as many cars as long as I buy my wife a car she really really wants, and bring home some good paycheques (and not spend a fortune on my cars). Besides I don't need expensive stuff to keep me happy. I'm perfectly fine with experiencing all of the decades of motoring thru old inexpensive beaters.

    On a side note I bought one of those Home Builder programs for my pc, and I'm toying around with designing my future dream home.

    My wife thought it was a joke when she saw that one half of the U shaped house I designed was a 10 car garage. I said that's nothing, there's gonna be a garage on the 2nd floor above the main garage, where i'll keep all the high end stuff. :P :P

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    Great group, including this battle for crazy exaggeration:
    "This is an almost complete(99.8%) restorable 1965 Corvair " Well, I thought that was the most amazing BS for a rusty car with a list of work needed a yard long, then there was the '99.9% complete' Roadrunner. If you're going to have to replace 30% of the parts, it's not 'complete', it would seem...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    Here's the Trabi final assembly, I find this very amusing

    Speaking of the ideal living quarters...I'd be happy with a simple condo and a 2 car garage. If I have more space, I could easily see myself starting a MB graveyard, the sub-500 heaps hanging around would grow in number like rabbits.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Nice Trabant video. I think I posted a stroy before about my dad buying a Syrena (the 50s looking car) new from the factory.

    You had to take a mechanic with you when you went to pick up your car so he can check it and make sure there's no problems with it.

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  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    No question about the "slow" part...

    But, I've found that most modern hatchbacks, being FWD, oversteer like crazy when pushed to the limit. That's hard to avoid with a FWD machine and 60% or so of the weight over the front wheels. Of course, AWD's like the Subie WRX's and such are a different story.

    With my '87, even given the lack of power, I can goose it from understeer to oversteer in a turn (such as a freeway ramp) just by goosing the throttle. Most of the today's higher-powered cars will just go from some to a lot of understeer under those same conditions.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I don't think of those cars as all that slow. They have a better power to weight ratio than a 2005 325i. And that kind of balance is nice. Oversteer is a naughty word in today's litigious world.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Like the Newport! Even the low-end Chrysler looked like a classy ride that year.

    I'd have preferred the 1966 Ford Country Sedan as stock as possible.

    Rolls-Royce is beautiful, but definitely a money pit. Best to avert your eyes from this dangerous siren who's about to lure you onto the rocks of fiscal suicide.

    Who but a clueless nerd would attempt to restore the least desirable Mustang?

    Mazda is neat. Never seen one like this before.

    I love those 1968-70 Chevrolet Impalas and Caprices! The remainder of that car would have to be in mint condition and the body rock-solid and I might risk a top-notch paint job on it. I'd paint it the light frosty green which was probably its original color.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think a 1985 BMW 325i racing a 2005 325 would be humiliating for the older car. They've come a long way in everything except basic reliability, where they might have backslid. For older BMWs, the 325 is the only one I ever recommend to anyone as a practical everyday driver.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    Hey, I just realized we have the same car count at the moment. ;)

    My lineup looks just a tad different, however. I should try and get a shot of them together ... but my wife would look at me funny (ok, funnier).
    Besides, the Accord is a lame duck, so I'm not sure it counts.
    I should have taken a shot when we had 7, just for posterity. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    Saw the most incredible looking 1st gen Buick Riviera on the road today. It was up the highway ahead of me and I sped to catch up to it just as it was exiting. It was worth the look. Definitely the best example I've ever seen in person. Its not a car I would have ever considered owning, until now.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Andre, you need to add a Ford product to your fleet, to better represent the domestics.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    I want a used RWD, reliable, fun to drive, manual transmissioned car with a back seat for $12K or less. I'm coming up empty. Help. Life is too short to drive a Camry.

    Hmmm... didn't the bmw you sold meet those requirements? ;P

    I can't think of anything BUT a BMW, personally, or one of the aforementioned japanese sportscars, but as you have found out, those are VERY tough to come by in nice condition at a reasonable price.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,825
    only other thing I can think of was a last generation Nissan 240SX. Of course, I can't remember when they stopped making them, and I expect a nice one is real hard to find these days!

    In my local paper, there was a few days ago a private sale BMW 325 for ~12K. Think it was a 2002? Kicker was it had 105K on it, but it was a 5 speed! 4 door though.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I didn't like the convertible top much - too many squeaks and rattles, and the top and related ancilliaries were fussy and expensive. I also am not big on black cars or tan interiors.

    I am really starting to think hard about the high mileage M3 again, or possibly an S4. I would take an IS300 or G35 but they are less fun and more expensive (just because they are newer), but those are hard to find too.

    Maybe I can cram people into the back of a 300ZX 2+2.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Andre, you need to add a Ford product to your fleet, to better represent the domestics.

    I've actually thought about that, so that I'd have a car to take to the Ford Nationals in Carlisle. At one time, my friend with the two '78 Mark V's was thinking about selling the rattier of the two, and I'd actually toyed around with the idea of buying it. Glad I didn't though, because about a month or so ago he destroyed the engine. Threw a rod or spun a bearing or something, I forget now. I still remember when he first bought that car, back around early 2004. it didn't seem like it was in bad shape at the time, but it went downhill fast.

    I don't get as excited over Ford products like I do GM or Mopars, but there are a few I like. I like the '63 Galaxie and Fairlane, and the '65-67 Galaxies. The '62-63 Meteor always appealed to me, as did the '65 Comet. I think I'm also one of the few people that actually LIKES the 1958 Fords! I think among the '57-59, most people prefer the '59 with that angular, T-bird-inspired style, but I always thought the '58 looked good. Except for the taillights.

    My godmother used to have a really nice T-bird. I think it was a '79, and one of those designer editions, like a "Heritage" or something. It was burgundy, and the thick padded top obscured the rear side windows, so you just had the tiny opera windows. I didn't care for that little feature, but otherwise it was a beautiful car. She wanted to sell it back around 2000 or so, and I really wanted to buy it, but really didn't have the "play money" for it. Plus, this car really was nice enough that it deserved to be garaged, and I didn't have the space for it. She would've let me have it for $3000-3500, IIRC. I passed on it though, and I think she got $5K for it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    Hmmm...I can think of a few American cars bought by my family over the years that could have benefitted from a pre-purchase inspection, even with 0 miles on the clock.

    I remember the Ciera and S-10 Blazer my parents had new in the 80s did not seem to be put together very tightly. On the other hands, the period Fords in the family seemed to be of a higher quality, at least inside.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Having been the owner of six different S-series vehicles, I can tell you that for the most part the build quality wasn't that great. They are a case of a vehicle designed to hit a lower price point, and then padded up to make a high-end piece of transportation.

    One need look no further than the low end S10 Blazer to the Oldsmobile Bravada. The Olds had AWD, but beyond that and trim, very little difference.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    "One need look no further than the low end S10 Blazer to the Oldsmobile Bravada. The Olds had AWD, but beyond that and trim, very little difference. "

    Too true, this kind of thing help result in Olds' demise. Judging by the headlines, Hummer, Saab, and Saturn may be soon to follow, or be spun off. Sad.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Found another M3. A couple years older, but far less mileage. Needs a thing or two. What do you experts think?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    Looks good, but...what's the ownership/maintenance record? And why does the driver's door seem to have a slightly different shade of paint?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I had that same question about the door. I haven't asked yet, but I had a new G35 that looked like that (from the same angle) the day I got it. No idea about records. I am going to email the guy tonight.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,653
    My dad's S-10 Blazer was the vehicle that turned him off GM forever. During its warranty period it was marginally reliable (constant exhaust manifold leak) and the materials were ridiculously bad, but it wasn't completely falling apart. But after the first few years, I swear it got worse each day. It was also dark brown with a brown and tan interior, which added to the pain. He eventually dumped it around 1991 for an early model Exploder, which didn't have any major issues that I am aware of.
  • lilelvislilelvis Member Posts: 82
    I had a 85 S10 Blazer in college and grad school (~'90-95). I can't even remember all the things, minor and major, that went wrong with it. Other than reliability, it was great for a guy in his early 20s - I'd take it camping and skiing and it made it across the country and back 3 times. One of those times, it actually made it without breaking down!

    Between that, an 84 Chrysler Laser (Dodge Daytona) and a 2002 Ford Explorer, it is easy to see why my cars for the last 10+ years have been Japanese. The 02 Explorer will soon be swapped out for a 4runner. American quality may be getting better, but it still lags behind the Japanese. Worse than that, there are very few American cars I'd be interested in buying even if the quality was better.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,802
    REally tough to tell from the pics. I mean, could the guy possibly get any farther away when shooting? And the washed out pic of the inside doesn't show much, either.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Yeah, and you don't want to crash in one of those Blazers either! :sick:
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,161
    "I want a used RWD, reliable, fun to drive, manual transmissioned car with a back seat for $12K or less. I'm coming up empty. Help. Life is too short to drive a Camry. "

    I know it's listed at $15k, but it only has 28k miles!
    '92 Supra

    image
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    If you're seriously interested in a Lincoln Mark V, there was one advertised for sale at my local gym here in central VA. (This is the 2nd time it was offered, and I bet it didn't sell in these days of $4 gas.) It is a 1975 "Lipstick Edition" (all white inside and out with bright red trim). It appeared to be in great condition, and the asking price was $5500. (I don't remember the mileage, but I'm pretty sure it was well under 100K.) If it comes up for sale again, I can drop you an e-mail.

    BTW, I finally made it to the All-GM Nationals at Carlisle and spotted your Grand LeMans! Very nice car! I didn't hang around too long, had my wife along and it was hot -- you must have gone on a break -- but I got a couple of photos. It reminds me of the '73 Monte Carlo my mother once owned.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I almost bought one of these when I was in college. It was the summer of 1985 and I had totalled my trusty (well, not so much) '79 Pontiac Sunbird. The payout was $2K. I only had about 3 months to graduation, but no job lined up.

    The Ford dealer I talked to said that they would defer the first payment for 3 months ($150 per month!). My folks nixed the deal, since I had no steady income at the time.

    So, I ended up spending $1100 on a '77 Olds (the model similar to the Nova) which, I found out later, was only running on 7 of its 8 cylinders. I sold it the day I graduated college for $250, which was enough cash for me to rent an '84 Country Squire to move my possessions home from Phoenix to LA.
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