Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    The yellow car is some new eco thing that I saw here on Edmunds about 6 or so months ago. Somebody claiming to be from the company that makes them started spamming the boards here with links to their websites that didn't even work. The poorly designed site now works. However I'd rather go out and buy a smart car or a new accetn hatchback for same or less money than this 3 wheeling contraption.

    I think I'd even be more comfortable in a 3 or 4 year old Civic or Corolla.

    The EMC3 Commuter is the perfect marriage of style, acceleration, handling, and economy. Hundreds of dealerships throughout the world, including the U.S., Canada, Asia, Europe, Central America, and South America, are committed to bringing you this automotive piece of history. ...ok, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well okay...with 196 countries in the world I guess we could presume at least one dealer in each? :P
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Some one should tell them that PO Boxes do not count as dealers. :P

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Cars like that make as much sense as diet cheesecake.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,026
    Hey, I had one exactly like this in about 1988. Except mine had more miles (150K?), and so much rust the lower body trim fell off. Did have a new clutch (and tranny I think) when I bought it. Didn't keep it very long, but got my money back on it (~$700 IIRC).

    link title

    This one looks about as good as you can get body wise, but the insides are a bit trashy.

    still, 4K BIN is just insane. I wouldn't pay that much if it was fully restored.

    Now, a nice 1985 model? That I like!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    6-cyl 5-spd 7-series

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Seems like a nice car and not unreasonable price for the condition. A 733i is going to be difficult sometimes, though, for parts & trim sourcing. Sounds like it would be fun to drive? It's not. The trans. is heavy and clunky. 4-speed auto makes for a much nicer car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I'm always leery of cars photographed at night...but the price looks harmless and condition appears good yeah.

    One of the weird turbo 7ers from that era would be interesting, but likely a pain to keep on the road.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    Look at this one

    It looks like a real nice resto on a close to stock car and then they paint the engine day glo green? Why not orange? Seems like a really weird choice, especially since the engine otherwise looks to be nicely detailed.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It's bad enough one would paint an engine Day-Glo Green but how about a whole car? Some knucklehead several blocks away painted his entire 1992 Toyota Camry sedan a garish Day-Glo Green! Maybe he wishes he had an old Mopar muscle car?
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    It's somethign with the tuners. I've seen plenty of Eclipses painted as such.

    image

    I guess that we're supposed to infew that it's radioactive
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    $45k for an ugly C5 vette with horrible mods including "Turbonators in the exhaust manifold" :lemon:

    C5 "Race Vette"

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I especially like the part where it says "it'll do 200 mph like the speedometer says".

    Ah.....yeah....right......sure.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I don't know what I like more - the spoiler, the doors, the license plate, or that fancy nav system.

    And the speed claim is like all of the "bulletproof" MB W140 out there.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Somebody needs to explain to him that the horsepower required to go from the stock real-world 170 mph to 200 mph is prodigious. To say nothing of a) the room required to get up to that speed and b) the guts to do it.

    There really aren't that many drivers capable of safely going 200 mph. It's not the same universe as 160 mph.

    My friend races Corvettes in those crazy Nevada desert races. They go *real* fast (but not 200) and he's blown up a couple stock Corvette motors already. I'm not sure "turbonators" are up to the job.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I say the Vette with those miles with those mods is worth no more than $12k. Not sure how he pulled the $45k asking price. Well I do know how: Probably paid $25k for it, wasted another $20k on useless mods, and now wants $45k.

    But whatever. It's his right to ask anythign he wants. I just thought it was funny since reading about it on Jalopnik. Apparently the listintg was revised too as the earlier version read that it's AWD and with "suicide" lambo doors. :sick:

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    That is really miled up for a 'race car'. Maybe some flourecent green paint would help it run faster
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    the only reason that speedometer goes that high in the first place is because those numbers double for both MPH and KPH. Get it up to about 120 MPH, hit the "Eng/Met" button to switch to metric, and suddenly the needle will peg the speedometer.

    My Park Ave has the same setup, except it only goes to 140. I miss the old speedometers that had two sets of numbers on them...even if it did make the speedo a bit more cluttered.

    I wonder what the top speed is on a 2000 Park Ave Ultra, anyway? Could it conceivably hit 140 mph?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    140? Not even with turbonators and a six pack under your belt at the local bar's bragging table. Maybe 100/105 in the real world. We're lookin' at 240 HP and 4000 lbs here. As Taj Mahal used to sing: "built for comfort, not built for speed".
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I'd think it could hit 125-130 or so. My fintail can get to about 105, with 135hp and 3000 lbs...but you need some road to get there, and you'll be timing it on a calendar once you hit 90 or so. The Buick might be limited by gearing too.

    The E55 however can hit the 155mph governor with just a little time needed...not that I would know...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Top speed is listed at 105, so maybe it is governed for that. In any event it would be a long time getting there. You have to remember that "top speed" postings in specs are probably done by mathematics, not actually driving the car that fast. And besides, pushing a showroom passenger car to those speeds is really stressing it out. The forces on pistons when pushing a stock car against the wind at top speed for any length of time are tremendous. The pistons really want to fly off their rods---and often do.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,828
    And besides, pushing a showroom passenger car to those speeds is really stressing it out. The forces on pistons when pushing a stock car against the wind at top speed for any length of time are tremendous. The pistons really want to fly off their rods---and often do.

    The Germans have a word for it: Vollgasfest
    Full-throttle proof.

    It's been 30 years since I even heard that mentioned as an issue... of course, back home, you can pretty much guarantee that some yahoo's gonna get up at 04:00 Easter morning and drive all-out from Frankfurt to Basel and back...

    I believe in Europe at least, today's cars are up to the abuse.
    Once in a while, anyway ;->

    Are American cars really that different?

    -Mathias
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I think "Autocar" had a 220SE like mine up to around 105-108 in their comprehensive test, I will have to find the old magazine. I have had it to about 100...that same day a transmission cooling line broke, so that was a lesson learned - don't overdo it in the old beast. It seems like it took an eon to hit that speed as well. I have to imagine the air displaced by the car probably created some damage along the highway, too ;)

    The 7-series diesel I drove in Germany would cruise at 210kmh like it was at a fast idle - little sensation of speed, nothing to keep you on edge. My E55 at 125 is like a normal car at 50...you barely realize there is such speed. I have to wonder what it would do without the governor.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,828
    I have to wonder what it would do without the governor.

    In the right circumstances, 15 to life would be my guess...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think there is a huge different in engine stress between "almost top speed" and flat out. In other words, in "almost" you still have some gas pedal left, meaning the engine isn't under full load. But at "flat out" there's nothing more, and so you have full load+ high heat.

    A lot depends on the metallurgy here. I don't think an automaker is going to put race car metallurgy into an ordinary passenger car that's going to the mall every day.

    You get what you pay for (usually).
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I'm sure it must have some kind of rev limiter if top speed is only 105 mph! I found this old test from the auto channel, and they got 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, 1/4 mile in 15.8@90 mph, so it just seems odd to top out so soon after blowing through the quarter.

    I remember an old road test Consumer Reports did with a 1968 Dart, 225 slant six, 3-speed automatic, 2.76:1 axle. They got 0-60 in 14 seconds, quarter mile in 19@72 mph. That was 145 hp gross, about 110 net, and around 3000 lb. Even it had no trouble breaking 100 mph. Strangely, it seemed more comfy at 100 than my '68 Dart with the 318. That car was great from, say 0-60 or so, but if you punched it from, say 80 mph, there didn't seem to be much difference between the two.

    I think the weakest car I ever had was my 1980 Malibu. It had a 229 V-6 with 115 hp...5 more than the Buick 231 that year, but I think it was a bit weak in torque compared to the Buick engine. Both of those cars only had 85 mph speedometers and would no doubt go faster, but the '82 Cutlass 231 I owned definitely seemed peppier at highway speeds. I have a feeling that either of them might have had trouble breaking 100.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,346
    I'm sure it must have some kind of rev limiter if top speed is only 105 mph!

    I think in the US the speed rating of the tire would come into play. Probably has "S" rated tires from the factory and they are only good to (IIRC) 112 MPH. "H" rated would get you to 130. The supercharged 3.8 is good for well over 105. My buddy had a late 90s Grand Prix with that powertrain and would do 115-120 with no problems. The Ultra weighs more of course but not enough to slow it down that much.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    "S" rated tires are only rated for 112 mph - you have to go to a "H" rating for 130 mph.

    An example:

    225/50SR16 112 mph, 180 km/h
    225/50HR16 130, 210 km/h
    225/50VR16 in excess of 130 mph, 210 km/h
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    It's only illegal if you get caught :shades:

    I will say that at 125 on empty smooth highways in eastern WA, the car is floating on a velvet cloud.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    so my 190E has a 140mph speedo. It MUST go that fast. :shades:

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,737
    speedometers really have gotten absurd sometimes. My Accord goes to 160 mph!? I assume it's electronically limited to 130, or something, and so why....? It's a 4 cylinder, and so even if it wasn't electronically limited it probably wouldn't go much more than that anyway. Plus it's not safe, of course.

    I can see 140 maybe for the 6 cylinder 6 speed coupe, but for a 4 cylinder sedan 160 seems beyond silly...
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2025 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2025 blue Outback (grown kid 1), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (grown kid 2)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    My friend's old 92 Accord had a speedo that went to 140...that car accelerated about as fast/slow as my fintail. Top speed couldn't be much better.

    My mom's Camry has a 140 speedo I think...I can't imagine a previous gen 4cyl Camry getting close to that,

    The E55 has a 160 speedo...it can do that without the governor.

    My W126 also had a 160 speedo...ca. 190hp I6 in that big old S-class...160 is a bit optimistic by maybe 40mph.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I messed with my then-girlfriend, (now wife) by switching the Eng/Met LED display on my 1994 Cadillac DeVille to read metric. I said, "Look at how fast we're going!" The display read 110, but she couldn't see the little "kph." She's like, "Slow down! You're going to get us killed!" In reality, we were only going a little over 65 mph.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    GM routinely uses electronic governors on its cars. Even the Z28 Camaro had a governor based on the tire the car was delivered with. When a buddy upgraded the tires on his 94 Z, he had the governor removed. Added another 20mph or so to the top end.

    A '96 GMC extended cab with the 350MPFI engine would govern at 96-101. Without the governor it would finally top at ~130. What was surprising was how stable the truck became when north of 90.

    At one time, Hyundai did not govern their cars, but used tires rated for the top speed. The '02 Elantra with a manual tranny was good for 118-122, depending upon which magazine was testing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Depends on the road you are on. If you hit a fist-sized rock in a pickup truck at 130 mph, you're a dead duck most likely. Most normal passenger type cars are actually started to "lift" at 130 mph unless the undercarriages are designed especially to counter that. So your front end is losing traction as you speed up.

    For 99% of American drivers, about 95 mph is their actual skill level---according to surveys taken with race car drivers---when they are asked "at what speed do you *really* begin to pay attention on a public road ?" (that is, stop talking, smoking and start looking).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    Remember the guy who went 140+ in a Sonata and got nabbed on a speed camera? Maybe the swoopy H doesn't govern any of their cars.

    I'd say 95 is even too much for most people out there, in my area anyway. These people freak out when they go above 70.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well we do lose about 40,000 people a year in car accidents, so maybe some of them are like that guy. I've driven that fast on a track and it requires a high level of attention. If I were a cop and caught somebody doing 140+ on a public road, I 'd just take out my Zippo and set fire to his license right there. :P

    Unless a person is trained, he doesn't "know" how to drive 140 mph, even if he thinks he does (which most do).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I wonder how many of those are from substance abuse. Surely 140 on a road with other cars, in NA anyway, isn't acceptable.

    I drove 130+ in Germany, only limited by winter tires...didn't seem very scary. You just have to pay attention.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh it's not scary, which is the problem---because it really is very tricky. Modern cars are so good at high speeds that unless you're trained to notice when things are not right, you won't even notice it (such as the steering lightening up)....or if you have never taken a high speed sweeper at 140 mph before. It's amazing how fast things can go from serene to *very wrong* at 140 mph. The window for reaction gets very tiny. Also it takes training to throw your vision WAY OUT THERE and not at the nose of the car (big mistake).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I am sure the drivers training there includes such details, which are ignored here, along with most other driving skills.

    That's something else I miss about driving there...going through perfectly banked turns at 120mph+, and flying through the rain at 100+, just keeping up with traffic in that lane.

    I always look way ahead on the freeway simply to avoid having to slam on the brakes.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    Just because it has low miles doesn't mean that it's worth a lot This just looks dingy even though I think I see power windows

    He should have vacuumed it but it looks clean

    Sick of it after only 5,200 miles

    this looks really good in the pics and the price seems OK in my uneducated opinion

    Realizing too late how expensive a 20 year old Jaguar is

    This is going to make some livery cab driver very happy
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I think that '75 Impala is a handsome looking car, although I started losing interest in the coupes once they went to stationary rear windows. I think this one is the more expensive Impala Custom. IIRC, the base Impala coupe was still a true hardtop! I think it's amusing that they charged you MORE for the model without the roll-down rear windows! But to be fair, Chrysler did that too, and I wouldn't put it past Ford, either. I think that 350-2bbl put out around 145-150 hp, so this car isn't going anywhere very fast. Might be a nice car if the body is still solid, but I agree, that interior looks a bit dingy. It's doing that 70's thing, too, where all the different interior materials start fading to different variations of the original color.

    That Corvette looks nice, but I guess the reason the price seems realistic is that powertrain. With a 250 hp 327 and 2-speed powerglide, that '75 Impala might give it a run for the money in a drag race! Well okay, it's not THAT bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if a modern 4-cyl Accord, Camry, or Altima wouldn't embarrass the heck out of it. Probably would make for a really nice car to cruise around in, though, and a lot less of a bear to drive than some of those big-blocks.

    I actually find myself liking that Town Car! Too bad I didn't come across that beast before I found my Park Avenue! Although I'm sure my Park Ave is better on gas, and probably more reasonable to drive around in on a regular basis. If anything, that '97 shows how much Lincoln started cheapening these cars in later years. That '97 looks pretty nice inside, whereas the new ones look too much like taxi cabs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '63 Vette convertible. Yes, with the small engine that's about market correct pricing.

    92 Miata--- way overpriced. $2500 is plenty for one this old. $5000 should buy you a 1996 on up.

    '87 Jaguar XJS -- the baby has touched the hot stove and won't ever do *that* again. It never ends with these cars....it just never, ever ends. It's like painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Start at one end, get to the other, then start over again. I think the "S" stands for Sisyphus. :P
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I had to look that one up.

    image

    "The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly roll a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. ..."
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That would have made a GREAT Jaguar hood ornament! LOL!

    Although Albert Camus thought Sisyphus was a happy man. I guess it's better to be busy?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,018
    i was watching one of those police chase shows over the weekend. one officer said because the driver being chased was driving 120+, it took him a while to catch up despite going 150-155 in a charger. hemi, i assume.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The cop is nuts. Didn't anyone tell him that's what helicopters are for?

    I hope he was disciplined. :mad:
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    Note it didn't need any of these things, as the prior owner had taken great care of it. I say this because I don't want to imply the car was a junker when I got it. But I performed these services to ensure the car was being properly maintained.

    Well, OK, I guess, but do new owners normally replace things like power mirror switches, rubber seals, and $3000 worth of brakes and suspension parts for the hell of it? And 15 cooling hoses come with it? Aye yi yi. :lemon:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    Heck, that XJS was a junker when it was brand new. Those things fell apart from day one. I remember in the early 90s it was very common to find late model 12cyl models with so many maladies that they were write-offs. Common ads would have a 5 year old XJS with something like "no compression in 3 cylinders".
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,749
    I watched one of those dorky police chase shows the other day where a Crown Vic had a hard time catching up with a 90-93 Accord.

    Yeah, a 120mph chase is just dumb...badges and roof lights sometimes make the brain assemble crazy thoughts.
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