Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    edited July 2010
    I saw that too - the V12 VW Phaeton. Some commenters who apparently own(ed) them before said you could do $2k/year in maintenance, and others have spent $3k + on repairs and maintenance.

    Nice car nevertheless if you're prepared for the maintenance costs and downtime while its getting fixed.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd figure $150 a month to keep it on the road + whatever repairs might be necessary. (that is, items beyond the usual maintenance and "expendables" like tires or brake pads-----"repairs" would be things that break beyond that).

    I would think that over ten years $30,000 would not be out of the question.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I guess just because it's priced in a Corolla price range, doesn't mean that it'll have Corolla reliablity or cost of ownership. Like I mentioned on another site, if one is going to buy a Phaeton, or any other high end luxury vehicle, I think it's best to buy it from an original owner who could afford to do all required maintenance. Otherwise you'll end up with a vehicle owned by a second owner who didn't know what they were getting themselves into and skipped on repairs, and other required maintenance and now are selling car that needs "minor work" or has "a few small issues".

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited July 2010
    I guess the risk factor would vary according to the miles and service records. If there is potential for engine damage or wear, for instance, this type of expense can simply "total" most older luxury cars. Geez, even a CVT transmission on a MINI COOPER can cost you $6500 + install. Porsche 911 engine from the 80s/early 90s? $12 to $15K. A Ferrari F40? $60K.

    I do know that list price for a new Phaeton W12 engine from the factory was $34,000 and that labor alone to overhaul the one in your car is 50 hours + the short block + whatever else comes up.

    Or you can scoop up this bargain---- a factory new "long block"

    The Last One

    So figure $8500 for that plus maybe 35 hours hooking it all up---not too bad---here in CA that would cost you a total of maybe 15 grand to get back on the road.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I took a good look at this Miata but I didn't drive it. It looks as good in person as it does in the pictures. I can't imagine it is worth $7K though.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,763
    edited July 2010
    Local car featured on "Nice Price or Crack Pipe"
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited July 2010
    Price is crazy. I just found a very nice and sorted '98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 5 speed, for $10.5K asking price. It's 2X the car of the Miata at only 30% more price. And newer, and less depreciation. Let me know, I'll ship it out to you!

    Early Boxster Rule: If it hasn't blown up in the first 30,000 miles, it's not going to.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    So you are softening a little on the early Boxsters? Any droptop that is fun to drive for less than $10K gets my interest.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Was this the 510 on Ja____ik?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Actually that's not a bad deal if you are picking up the W12 for $20k as that one has 90k miles on it already.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited July 2010
    yes indeedy the engine is a pretty good deal; however, any engine, even factory new, that's been sitting a long time needs to be broken down and inspected. You wouldn't want to spend 35 hours only to find out you had a stuck valve or seized rings or some such.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,763
    Yep that's it. Neat looking old car with a ton of parts. Not a screaming bargain, but maybe some value for money.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    No pedigree Nova
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Uh, no.

    Way too much engine for that chassis, and way too much money for someone's over indulgence. I can think of quit a few vehicles much more desirable for that kind of money.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Picture that chassis like the rubber band you used to twist to fly your model airplane when you were a kid. There's some serious torque goin' on here, and I'd like to know more about how this HP gets put (and kept) to the ground---or do we just smoke tires and start each time in 2nd gear?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Think how much better that Nova would be with a nice 350 crate motor, maybe one with an aluminum block...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep and a nice 4 or 5 speed automatic with OD, vintage AC, killer sound system, good suspension-----nice cruiser for years to come.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    And the stripes are too far apart

    And the buckets are cheesey
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    I love reading Chinese to English translations of technical data. That's the best laugh I have had this morning.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    SPAMMMMMMMMMMMM :mad:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,763
    You don't need an "instrument board backbone"? :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I always wanted to start a TV show called "The Custom Cops" where we do an intervention in the middle of a car mutilation. :cry:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The spam sleeps with the fishes.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What one guy thinks is "cool" could look completely and utterly dorky to somebody else. Some mods don't age well. Imagine orange shag carpeting in a custom done in the 1970s! I saw an episode of "Muscle Car" where they painstakingly restored the body of a 1961 Chevrolet Impala bubbletop only to put super-stupid modern wheels on it! I'd have liked it much better if they had put steel wheels on it with dog dish hubcaps or even some period Cragars than those stupid styled wheels with the low-profile tires.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    I don't think that the Nova is a mutilation, just the price is nuts. For a garden variety Nova, do whatever you want. But if the body is worth 10 and the drivetrain is worth 10 than that car isn't worth 40.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    edited July 2010
    How about something like this 383 cid/383 hp crate engine, ready to run (everything with it), ~$5,600:
    GM crate motor
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If it doesn't blow up. Crate motors do vary widely in quality.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    How about the ones from GM?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    edited July 2010
    I drove this Miata last weekend. The dealer is a fixed price dealer and wanted $6999 (plus a $500 doc fee) at the time. I said I had no interest at that price. It is a plain jane model. The interior is very good. The top is excellent. The exterior is average, probably very good with a little buffing. It has one little boo boo on the Carfax. Out the door with taxes and all their stupid fees, I probably be right at about $5,700.

    Anybody want to pass a verdict?

    EDIT - It is a manual, regardless of what the ad says.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    The hood on the pics looks like it wasn't closed completely, right?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Yeah, all the panel fit is fine.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Have a look at the top. You may also be in for a timing belt.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    It has a new timing belt and a new top and is now sitting in my garage.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited July 2010
    Well then you obviously did everything right :P

    Miatas are bullet-proof. The top and timing belt are probably the two biggest expenses anyone has to endure with those cars.

    The price seemed fair, too.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    Good deal Lemmer. Keep everyone posted on how it goes and how you like it
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Just for comparison, what are the two biggest expenses one has to endure with Alfa Spiders?

    My guess is that one of them is probably the troublesome 2nd-gear synchro.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    With Alfas, you have to endure:

    1. Monkeys who worked on it and messed up the SPICA fuel injection (easily made to run well in the right hands) (pre- 1981 models)

    2. Possible head gaskets, possible mushrooming valve stems, possible synchros

    3. Electrical glitches

    "Not as reliable as a Miata, but better than an MGB"
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,807
    1. Rust
    2. Rust

    In 10 years, mine never gave me any nasty mechanical issues to speak of. I did have the Bosch EFI model, though.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    80s Alfas are pretty reliable cars---in fact all Alfas are reliable cars if you take care of them.

    One advantage they have over Miatas is that they are quite spacious inside, and also have decent trunk space.

    Most used Alfas I have driven or have shopped for, were screwed up by previous owners and mechanics. Once I got mine squared away, or once my friends took the time and energy to square theirs away, they were great cars.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited July 2010
    Referring to the $2,000 you mentioned (your message #21441) for a rather minor repair, my wife and I will have to be super careful with the '07 A4 we acquired in March. It's her daily driver, and, so far, has performed flawlessly. It's a pleasure to drive, and it performed great on a 6,000 mile trip to Glacier National Park. It's got the most comfortable seats we've ever had in a car. The only problem was with a faulty ignition switch, which the dealer replaced under the factory warranty. It took two visits, though.

    How much would you estimate the repair you described for an Allroad cost for, say, a Camry, Accord or Malibu?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd say 1/2 to 1/3 the price---it rather depends on the component.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited July 2010
    Ouch! Can't say I'm surprised, though. I warned my wife about the high cost of ownership before we bought it. For now, we're really enjoying the ride, and we're okay with relatively high maintenance and repair costs. If the expenses become unreasonable, we'll sell it at market price and accept the loss.

    Would it be accurate to say that equivalent parts for a Lexus ES350, Acura TL or Cadillac CTS would fall somewhere (maybe midway) between the three popular priced models I used in my example and the A4?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Given that the ES350 is a rebodied Camry, many of the maintenance parts for it are identical. The TL is more-distantly related to the Accord, but I have no idea about the parts prices. The CTS is not based on any other GM car.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited July 2010
    All true. I imagine maintenance and repair costs for a CTS may be simiIar to equivalent German luxury models.

    I've heard that some A4 parts and components can be gotten from Volkswagen dealers for less than the same parts would cost at Audi dealers, but I don't know which parts are common.

    Does anyone know a good source for new replacement Audi parts at less-than-dealer prices?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,807
    edited July 2010
    just search online. I do far better buying off the internet. Parts alone are pretty much equal across the board on mass produced vehicles. It is going to the dealership where you will see/feel the difference.

    That is, unless you refer to something special. For instance, the Lincoln LS and Jag S-type shared the same platform, but the electronic shocks in the Jag would cost you about 4 times the standard gas shocks in the Lincoln.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
    When you search online, not only can you get prices, you may even find parts not available at the dealer. I needed new control arm busings for my 97 Pathfinder. The dealer told me that I couldn't get just the bushings and that I needed to buy 4 new control arms to the tune of $600. I looked online and found the 8 bushings and hardware for less than $150 from partsgeek.com. That's a big difference. Parts geek and rock auto are good places to look.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Thanks for the tips, qbrozen and gsemike. Will try going online when the inevitable time comes that I'll need parts.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Yep, online. I start with rockauto, go from there.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Be careful with Rock Auto. I ordered Anchor brand name motor mounts from them, they shipped some off-brand junk I had never heard of. So badly made, they wouldn't line up with the mounting holes. Got an RMA, sent them back as defective, and they only gave partial credit for the parts, charged me a restocking fee!

    I made sure they knew I would warn folks about their policy of substituting no-name parts for major brands.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,828
    Well, at least you're not bitter.

    I agree with you, though, that's totally ridiculous.
    Makes no sense, either. Sounds like they really did not understand your point.

    Cheers -m
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