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Every car that does have ABS happens to have the safety package which includes ABS and side airbags. Not a single car out of 5 dealers had just ABS (if at all).
IIRC you can only get ABS on a Focus by getting the safety package.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree with this, ABS plus side air bags sounds like wise investment. For my money, I always try to get whatever safety enhancements are available on whatever I buy.
Are you saying none of the cars had this "safety package" at all, or just that you can't get the ABS separately?
No joke...wifes grandmotherly type next door neighbors name was Frieda Sample. To stay on topic, I don't know if her name ever helped her in vehicle negotiations.
If I used Ford's website to build the car, I can get ABS alone or in the safety package (ABS/side airbags). Now, If you get the Safety Package, there is a $400 discount so it's like buy the one you get the other free. I'm not being cheap, I think this is awesome.
Every car I have seen online has either the Safety Package or nothing. So what I mean is that almost no cars even have the Safety Package. Not a single car has ABS alone. So that's why I called to see if just ABS by itself was representated in a different way on the sticker. Just seems odd to me that so few cars have ABS at all.
I'm just puzzled why would you want to know that thing on the sticker. ABS/airbag is on minority because the target audience (as Ford sees it) does not see value in these options. The'd rather get a bazooka subwoofer, leather, power options, stereo, or MP3 player with their car before buying safety package. This was the case at least couple of years ago and as we know, domestics are always chasing previous market trends :P
We went to 4 Ford dealers before we found a Focus that was equipped the way we wanted. In our case, we needed to have the tilt steering/cruise option along with ABS.
Most of the cars we looked at (and, oh, by the way, did I mention that we were looking for a ZX5?) were either stripped or loaded.
In the end, we still didn't get exactly what we were looking for (try to find a Focus with an automatic AND traction control!), so we got a stick shift instead.
Two and a half years and 40K later, still running like a champ. The only downside is that the Focus has become my daily driver, while my daughter drives the L300 I had purchased for myself.
Well I understand the sticker thing so I'll leave it at that lol.
I see what you are saying about the target audience. I'm probably in that group (I'm 23), I think ABS is important not only for safety but my insurance would go up $40 a month if I don't have it.
If I used Ford's website to build the car, I can get ABS alone or in the safety package (ABS/side airbags).
Thats strange because I just checked Fords website (the options list not the build your own) and I didn't even see ABS or the safety package as a listed option for the ZX-3, yet they have it on the build a vehicle for all trims :confuse:
Anyway looking at what edmunds puts as the price of the safety package at less than just ABS (after taking the safety package discount) so why not go that route? Which is the likely reason why you can't find ABS only Foci (focus's?).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
An in and out is when the dealer does you a favor by processing the private sale of your vehicle to a buyer you have found in order to take advantage of the sales tax difference available in many states.
Say you buy a car for $25K and you find a buyer for your trade for $5K. If you do a private sale, you pay tax on the $25K purchase price. With the in and out, your new car transaction price is reduced to $20K and you pay sales tax on the $20K.
he wants the dealer to run his trade-in thru the dealers books....I would guess that he must have the car sold to somebody but wants to take advantage of the sales tax break. This wasn't a big deal in the past but because of warranty requirements the dealer is now on the hook for potential problems and liabilities. This prevents some dealers from doing an in and out.
An in and out is when the dealer does you a favor by processing the private sale of your vehicle to a buyer you have found in order to take advantage of the sales tax difference available in many states.
Yeah, me and my old man did this when I bought my car, and he bought mine. I was surprised they did this, to be honest, it made me wonder if they were making a mint off me to be able to tie up their finance guy on dad's deal (which they didn't make a penny on). :P
If they'll let you do it, it's the way to go. I had previously sold a semi-new car privately, and it was a huge PITA. It doesn't matter how you slice it, if you're privately selling a car you still owe money on, you open yourself up to potential disaster in at least 3 different ways. Did it once, made me a nervous wreck, won't do it again. If I ever do sell a car privately in the future, it will be a total beater that I don't care if I see dime 1 out of it.
We do it, but there is alot of stipulations, first of all we charge a 250 doc fee. The customer buying your trade must pay cash or be pre-approved before he/she comes in. We have bent over backward for people to do this and the buyer of the trade always flakes or is a roach (bad credit person).
Hi, I recently purchased a toyota corolla and the salesman told me there was a dealer fee and added the fee to the accessory price. I didn't know that this was a scam. Is there any way to get the money back on this sales scam? I didn't purchase any accessories with the car. Anyone else been scammed by bogus non-existent dealer fees? Can I ask the dealer for my money back? Maybe I could write to Toyota directly? Any help would be appreciated Thanks
We had agreed to a price for the car and then the salesperson got up and came back with a form that had $500 of accessories and $200 VIN etching. I knew about the VIN etching scam so I had him remove that. I then told him I wanted to see the itemized list of accessories. He came back and showed me two accessories - the bogus weather proofing and the car mats. Those two packages totalled $158 so I asked him what the discrepancy was between the two prices and he said there were dealer fees. And I said I wasn't going to pay that much for dealer fees. So the final price was $300. I did have hin It isn't alot of money but I didn't want the weatherproof package so I really should have paid for the car mats. I guess I am just mad for being taken. I should have done more research on the web first. I was thinking I would write to the dealership and see if they would refund it since the accessories don't add uo? I wonder if anyone on this board has had this experience? I have to say the whole buying a new car experience was tiring!
First of all, did he say what kind the dealer fee is for? Dealer fees should not be in the accessory line anyway.
I would go to the dealer and tell them there are some questions about your contract. I do not know how far you will be able to go. Its a contract, you signed and thats pretty much it. BUT if they can not explain the fees, just say very calm and patiently "I think I want to have my attorney look this over." They might be willing to give your fees back.
It sounds like the dealer took advantage of you and you are justifiably mad about it.
The main thing is to learn from your experience and make sure it never happens again.
Car buying can be a wonderful and enjoyable experience once you find a method that suits you. Some people in this forum like to negotiate a price with the sales person. Others, like myself, like to offer a price and refuse to budge. Just find a method that you are comfortable with so you will enjoy buying your next car.
Here is the deal, you agreed to a price and the dealer did not honor that agreement when they added the extra fees. The only thing that should be added is tax, title license (all three are pretty much fixed and you can't do anything about them) and doc fees.
I did have hin It isn't alot of money but I didn't want the weatherproof package so I really should have paid for the car mats.
As for the weather proofing since its not something you asked for I wouldn't pay for it. You can either keep the mats and pay for them or not pay for them and give them back.
I can't say I have had the same experience, but what I would do is calmly and respectfully voice my concerns to the proper people at the dealership and see if you can get some concessions. Other than that write a letter to the better business bureau and your states attorney office (not that your one instance will do anything but if they have other complaints it can't hurt) and don't give them any repeat business.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hi, I am in NYS and the fee he said was for cleaning the car! He gave me a whole story about the cars being in dirty condition and that the staff needs to clean it. Also, he claimed the fees were for processing the paperwork. However, all of this went into the accessory line. I knew something wasn't quite right but I went with it anyway. The contract was signed this past Sunday. I will try your tactic. I'll see if that works.
Hi, Thanks everyone for the replies! I've been so upset since I signed on Sunday. I'm glad I posted the problem. I will try to go back to the dealer and see what I can negotiate. I signed with excessive accessories but it doesn't come with the car (at least its not listed on the car itemized list) so maybe they will be willing to throw some accessories in to total the amount on the contract if they are not willing to refund the price. I'll see what happens. I am supposed to pick up the car on Saturday. I'll post back the results, positive or negative. Thanks everyone!!
Hey, don't get too upset with yourself. The only reason some of us are so wise (ha-ha) is because we made a LOT of mistakes in the past and learned from them.
I am in NYS and the fee he said was for cleaning the car!
Pardon my French but thats toro poo poo. The cost of prepping the vehicle for delivery should be covered by the base price of the car. When you order food at a restaurant do they add on a fee for cooking it?
However, all of this went into the accessory line. I knew something wasn't quite right but I went with it anyway.
Always listen to that little voice inside of you that something isn't just right, more often than not its right.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Depending on how far you want to take it, but if it was me....
If you go to the dealer and confront them, bring a pocket tape recorder and record your conversation. THEN I would call your local loudmouth investigative reporter for your local news station, or a loud mouth consumer activist attorney and tell your story. Especially you taperecording it will give it more scandal appeal to them.
Forget about anything the salesman tells you, but concentrate on what's written in your contract. Since you haven't taken delivery yet, I'd assume you haven't signed all the paperwork.
I would just refuse to sign anything else and refuse to take delivery until the $300 and the "worthless accesories" are taken off.
Hello everyone, First off, thanks for all the posts and encouragement! Your replies have helped a great deal. So, I did not get the $300 back from the dealer and here's why: I was sick this weekend and so my dad went to get delivery on the car (it was his car I was negotiating for). The whole scenario is that my dad wanted this done quickly and so I didn't have alot of time to do adequate research (hence 300 bogus fee). Anyway, he took delivery without arguing the 300. Oh well. I guess, as bobst posted, I have just made a mistake that I will learn from and never make again. I will be buying my own car next year. Now I'll know what to look for and how to deal with the dealers. He also bought the extra care package from the dealership. I'm not sure if this is negotiable but he paid 1250 for 6years starting from toady. I think he could have gotten a few bucks off that but again he didn't want to deal with it. My dad also bought the car with no power locks or windows! which I advised against but he just loves the old fashion way of doing things!
Got a question for you, though. Why didn't you just walk away from the deal since it had fees/added options you (or your father) didn't want?
If you hadn't taken delivery, the deal wasn't consumated. Just for reference, you could have walked away from the deal if you hadn't taken delivery. Was the extended warranty the "bumper-to-bumper" type? Was it a Toyota warranty? Or, was it 3rd party?
That said, you've got the car. You (or your father) is happy with it and that's all that matters.
I am looking at buying a new car and here are my 2 choices: 2005 Camry LE for 17,500 OTD and 2005 KIA Optima for 12,000 OTD. Both cars have the same mileage. I already convinced myself that I can put up with the KIA reliability and comfort. Driving a luxury and expensive car does not do anything for me as long as I can get from point A to point B. Here is my question: Assuming both cars will depreciate by $6,000 each in 5 years, what would be the smarter buy right now. Thanks.
am looking at buying a new car and here are my 2 choices: 2005 Camry LE for 17,500 OTD and 2005 KIA Optima for 12,000 OTD.
There are MANY choices besides the two you mentioned. (Are you bying a new car or a "new" used car?? You are not very clear.
The Camry is a much better car, better equipped, and will depreciate much more slowly. It is a very solid car. I have several friends driving 1992-95 Camrys with 150k+ miles/
There is no way that an KIA Optima will only depreciate $6k in the next five years. Based on the Black Book values, a new 2006 Optima will depreciate 50% in TWO years.
Well looking at it in a strictly financial way go with the Kia and invest the difference. Money in the bank doesn't depreciate. Even if the kia depreciates more than the Camry the interest earned should at least make up for the difference
Also consider which one you like better, if its the kia then its a no brainer. If its the Camry the question becomes is the worth the extra money?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Thank you all for the reply. For clarification purposes both cars are used and I don't have a personal preference over the 2. At first my reaction was CAMRY no brainer then when I looked closely at the numbers the picture become interesting. I looked at car.com for the prices on 5 year old CAMRY nad KIA Optima. The CAMRY price went between 7,500 to 12,000 for a median of $9,750 while the KIA was between 7,000 to 10,000 for a median of $8,500. The $5,500 I will save by purchasing the KIA will gain $550 at 2% in 5 years. This example could apply to car X and car Z instead but I still want to make a smart decision. Is there a flaw in my reasoning? Thanks again.
I'd say it all depends on what you're comfortable in, and what you want to be able to afford.
If you like the Optima, go for the Optima.
The real question is "do you plan on keeping the car longer than 5 years?" If your plan is to trade in the car and get something new, the Camry will likely have a better resale value. But I have no reason to think that the Kia is so much less reliable as to not be a consideration.
I think you are basically right as long as you're comfortable with Kia in general. Remember, their technology is generally a few years (about 5+) behind, which means you get stuff (features), but their powertrain is so-so, both in performance and economy.
My personal thing is I would rather go for Hyundai, if buying Korean. It's the same corporation, but Hyundai gets the new tech faster. I think their warranty is better, too, including the transferable part (is Kia's ten years transferable? - I think not Hyundai's is, IIRC). Also, the long-term reliability data is likely be better for Hyundai, but this is a speculation only.
If you are value-driven, I think the particular Kia is a better deal than Camry. Think about taking this 5 grand and putting it in the bank. How much more is it going to cost you to fix the Optima? Who knows, but likelihood of going more than that amount is low. Depreciation? Of anything, I predict the numbers getting better and better for Koreans over time, as more people will get convinced. You are likely to lose more percentage wise, but I can't see it overcome 5 grand that easily.
One strong thing going for the Camry - it is a better car, period. It's whether you rather have the money or the better product.
The $5,500 I will save by purchasing the KIA will gain $550 at 2% in 5 years.
Two things, first it will earn $572.44 in 5 years (more if its compounded quarterly or monthly). Second you should be able to get more than that in a long term CD.
One more thing, will you be financing the car? If so then your car payments will drop over $110.00
Another thing you might want to consider, if you can afford $17,500 for a used Camry there are plenty of new cars that would be at, or below, that price range. You might want to consider those.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A lot of it depends on what you are going to do with the vehicle. If you are going to drive the car until the end of its life product cycle, you will probably go further with less repair costs with the Camry.
If you are going to trade the car in two to three years, you will probably do better with the Camry as buyers expect that a Toyota product will last longer than a Kia.
If you are looking for value, personally, I would skip the Kia and look at a domestic 2-3 year old vehicle for $8-9k -something like an Impala, the redesigned Malibu, a Taurus, or the like.
Is this an used KIA? I have heard (not sure) that their 10/100K warranty is only for the original owner. If so, make sure you include some estimate of unscheduled repair expenses in your calculation.
Personally, as an ex-camry owner, I would go with the Camry. Even at 200K+ miles, it was running silky smooth without any problems.
... >>>**2005 Camry LE for 17,500 OTD and 2005 KIA Optima for 12,000 OTD. Both cars have the same mileage.
Camry's are depreciating maybe in and around $2,000 a year depending on how many miles get piled up .... Optima's drop like anvils on Jupiter ...
A 75,000 mile Camry will sell waaaaay before a 25,000 mile Kia ever will ...
>>>**I already convinced myself that I can put up with the KIA reliability and comfort....**
Kia isn't known for it's reliabilty factor .... there is thousands upon thousands of Camry's out there with 150/175/200,000+ miles rollin' around ... and Kia might have 3 if you count Puerto Rico as a state ....
If you're comparing price and model .. an 05 Kia Optima LX with tiny little miles ain't doing much more than the $8's at the auctions (and thats "if" they're not standing in MBB lane) -- and you're paying $12..??
Lots of nice cars out there .. right now you're only batting 50% ....
I'd agree. If you can come up with $17,000, give or take, you've got options for a new car.
If you're flexible on what you want, you might even look to see if there are left-over 2005s in a model you'd like. You can get some superb deals in that case.
2% intereast$$$ Put your money in either ING or Emmigrant Savings at 4 to 41/2 % interest if you decide to go with the Optima. Personally, audi8 gives good advice.
Comments
IIRC you can only get ABS on a Focus by getting the safety package.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Are you saying none of the cars had this "safety package" at all, or just that you can't get the ABS separately?
Since I haven't been able to come up with anything I feel is startlingly original, I've refrained from commenting or asking about his name.
Every car I have seen online has either the Safety Package or nothing. So what I mean is that almost no cars even have the Safety Package. Not a single car has ABS alone. So that's why I called to see if just ABS by itself was representated in a different way on the sticker. Just seems odd to me that so few cars have ABS at all.
Snakeweasel, what does IIRC mean?
I'm just puzzled why would you want to know that thing on the sticker. ABS/airbag is on minority because the target audience (as Ford sees it) does not see value in these options. The'd rather get a bazooka subwoofer, leather, power options, stereo, or MP3 player with their car before buying safety package. This was the case at least couple of years ago and as we know, domestics are always chasing previous market trends :P
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Most of the cars we looked at (and, oh, by the way, did I mention that we were looking for a ZX5?) were either stripped or loaded.
In the end, we still didn't get exactly what we were looking for (try to find a Focus with an automatic AND traction control!), so we got a stick shift instead.
Two and a half years and 40K later, still running like a champ. The only downside is that the Focus has become my daily driver, while my daughter drives the L300 I had purchased for myself.
I see what you are saying about the target audience. I'm probably in that group (I'm 23), I think ABS is important not only for safety but my insurance would go up $40 a month if I don't have it.
I'll just have to be paitient.
Thats strange because I just checked Fords website (the options list not the build your own) and I didn't even see ABS or the safety package as a listed option for the ZX-3, yet they have it on the build a vehicle for all trims :confuse:
Anyway looking at what edmunds puts as the price of the safety package at less than just ABS (after taking the safety package discount) so why not go that route? Which is the likely reason why you can't find ABS only Foci (focus's?).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Say you buy a car for $25K and you find a buyer for your trade for $5K. If you do a private sale, you pay tax on the $25K purchase price. With the in and out, your new car transaction price is reduced to $20K and you pay sales tax on the $20K.
Yeah, me and my old man did this when I bought my car, and he bought mine. I was surprised they did this, to be honest, it made me wonder if they were making a mint off me to be able to tie up their finance guy on dad's deal (which they didn't make a penny on). :P
If they'll let you do it, it's the way to go. I had previously sold a semi-new car privately, and it was a huge PITA. It doesn't matter how you slice it, if you're privately selling a car you still owe money on, you open yourself up to potential disaster in at least 3 different ways. Did it once, made me a nervous wreck, won't do it again. If I ever do sell a car privately in the future, it will be a total beater that I don't care if I see dime 1 out of it.
I can see where the dealer might be reluctant since he's on the hook for any issues the trade-in may have.
But, if you can swing it with a dealer, so much the better.
I've tried it a couple of times in the past with no success with the dealer. So, I just quit asking.
I recently purchased a toyota corolla and the salesman told me there was a dealer fee and added the fee to the accessory price. I didn't know that this was a scam. Is there any way to get the money back on this sales scam? I didn't purchase any accessories with the car. Anyone else been scammed by bogus non-existent dealer fees? Can I ask the dealer for my money back? Maybe I could write to Toyota directly? Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
First of all, did he say what kind the dealer fee is for? Dealer fees should not be in the accessory line anyway.
I would go to the dealer and tell them there are some questions about your contract. I do not know how far you will be able to go. Its a contract, you signed and thats pretty much it. BUT if they can not explain the fees, just say very calm and patiently "I think I want to have my attorney look this over." They might be willing to give your fees back.
It sounds like the dealer took advantage of you and you are justifiably mad about it.
The main thing is to learn from your experience and make sure it never happens again.
Car buying can be a wonderful and enjoyable experience once you find a method that suits you. Some people in this forum like to negotiate a price with the sales person. Others, like myself, like to offer a price and refuse to budge. Just find a method that you are comfortable with so you will enjoy buying your next car.
I did have hin It isn't alot of money but I didn't want the weatherproof package so I really should have paid for the car mats.
As for the weather proofing since its not something you asked for I wouldn't pay for it. You can either keep the mats and pay for them or not pay for them and give them back.
I can't say I have had the same experience, but what I would do is calmly and respectfully voice my concerns to the proper people at the dealership and see if you can get some concessions. Other than that write a letter to the better business bureau and your states attorney office (not that your one instance will do anything but if they have other complaints it can't hurt) and don't give them any repeat business.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am in NYS and the fee he said was for cleaning the car! He gave me a whole story about the cars being in dirty condition and that the staff needs to clean it. Also, he claimed the fees were for processing the paperwork. However, all of this went into the accessory line. I knew something wasn't quite right but I went with it anyway. The contract was signed this past Sunday. I will try your tactic. I'll see if that works.
Thanks everyone for the replies! I've been so upset since I signed on Sunday. I'm glad I posted the problem. I will try to go back to the dealer and see what I can negotiate. I signed with excessive accessories but it doesn't come with the car (at least its not listed on the car itemized list) so maybe they will be willing to throw some accessories in to total the amount on the contract if they are not willing to refund the price. I'll see what happens. I am supposed to pick up the car on Saturday. I'll post back the results, positive or negative. Thanks everyone!!
Pardon my French but thats toro poo poo. The cost of prepping the vehicle for delivery should be covered by the base price of the car. When you order food at a restaurant do they add on a fee for cooking it?
However, all of this went into the accessory line. I knew something wasn't quite right but I went with it anyway.
Always listen to that little voice inside of you that something isn't just right, more often than not its right.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you go to the dealer and confront them, bring a pocket tape recorder and record your conversation. THEN I would call your local loudmouth investigative reporter for your local news station, or a loud mouth consumer activist attorney and tell your story. Especially you taperecording it will give it more scandal appeal to them.
I am just a little millitant is all.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I would just refuse to sign anything else and refuse to take delivery until the $300 and the "worthless accesories" are taken off.
Terry
It is true that in some states the recording of phone conversations without notice is prohibited.
First off, thanks for all the posts and encouragement! Your replies have helped a great deal. So, I did not get the $300 back from the dealer and here's why:
I was sick this weekend and so my dad went to get delivery on the car (it was his car I was negotiating for). The whole scenario is that my dad wanted this done quickly and so I didn't have alot of time to do adequate research (hence 300 bogus fee). Anyway, he took delivery without arguing the 300. Oh well. I guess, as bobst posted, I have just made a mistake that I will learn from and never make again. I will be buying my own car next year. Now I'll know what to look for and how to deal with the dealers. He also bought the extra care package from the dealership. I'm not sure if this is negotiable but he paid 1250 for 6years starting from toady. I think he could have gotten a few bucks off that but again he didn't want to deal with it. My dad also bought the car with no power locks or windows! which I advised against but he just loves the old fashion way of doing things!
Got a question for you, though. Why didn't you just walk away from the deal since it had fees/added options you (or your father) didn't want?
If you hadn't taken delivery, the deal wasn't consumated. Just for reference, you could have walked away from the deal if you hadn't taken delivery. Was the extended warranty the "bumper-to-bumper" type? Was it a Toyota warranty? Or, was it 3rd party?
That said, you've got the car. You (or your father) is happy with it and that's all that matters.
2005 Camry LE for 17,500 OTD and 2005 KIA Optima for 12,000 OTD. Both cars have the same mileage.
I already convinced myself that I can put up with the KIA reliability and comfort. Driving a luxury and expensive car does not do anything for me as long as I can get from point A to point B.
Here is my question: Assuming both cars will depreciate by $6,000 each in 5 years, what would be the smarter buy right now.
Thanks.
There are MANY choices besides the two you mentioned. (Are you bying a new car or a "new" used car?? You are not very clear.
The Camry is a much better car, better equipped, and will depreciate much more slowly. It is a very solid car. I have several friends driving 1992-95 Camrys with 150k+ miles/
There is no way that an KIA Optima will only depreciate $6k in the next five years. Based on the Black Book values, a new 2006 Optima will depreciate 50% in TWO years.
Also consider which one you like better, if its the kia then its a no brainer. If its the Camry the question becomes is the worth the extra money?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
At first my reaction was CAMRY no brainer then when I looked closely at the numbers the picture become interesting.
I looked at car.com for the prices on 5 year old CAMRY nad KIA Optima. The CAMRY price went between 7,500 to 12,000 for a median of $9,750 while the KIA was between 7,000 to 10,000 for a median of $8,500.
The $5,500 I will save by purchasing the KIA will gain $550 at 2% in 5 years.
This example could apply to car X and car Z instead but I still want to make a smart decision. Is there a flaw in my reasoning?
Thanks again.
If you like the Optima, go for the Optima.
The real question is "do you plan on keeping the car longer than 5 years?" If your plan is to trade in the car and get something new, the Camry will likely have a better resale value. But I have no reason to think that the Kia is so much less reliable as to not be a consideration.
My personal thing is I would rather go for Hyundai, if buying Korean. It's the same corporation, but Hyundai gets the new tech faster. I think their warranty is better, too, including the transferable part (is Kia's ten years transferable? - I think not Hyundai's is, IIRC). Also, the long-term reliability data is likely be better for Hyundai, but this is a speculation only.
If you are value-driven, I think the particular Kia is a better deal than Camry. Think about taking this 5 grand and putting it in the bank. How much more is it going to cost you to fix the Optima? Who knows, but likelihood of going more than that amount is low. Depreciation? Of anything, I predict the numbers getting better and better for Koreans over time, as more people will get convinced. You are likely to lose more percentage wise, but I can't see it overcome 5 grand that easily.
One strong thing going for the Camry - it is a better car, period. It's whether you rather have the money or the better product.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Two things, first it will earn $572.44 in 5 years (more if its compounded quarterly or monthly). Second you should be able to get more than that in a long term CD.
One more thing, will you be financing the car? If so then your car payments will drop over $110.00
Another thing you might want to consider, if you can afford $17,500 for a used Camry there are plenty of new cars that would be at, or below, that price range. You might want to consider those.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you are going to trade the car in two to three years, you will probably do better with the Camry as buyers expect that a Toyota product will last longer than a Kia.
If you are looking for value, personally, I would skip the Kia and look at a domestic 2-3 year old vehicle for $8-9k -something like an Impala, the redesigned Malibu, a Taurus, or the like.
Personally, as an ex-camry owner, I would go with the Camry. Even at 200K+ miles, it was running silky smooth without any problems.
Camry's are depreciating maybe in and around $2,000 a year depending on how many miles get piled up .... Optima's drop like anvils on Jupiter ...
A 75,000 mile Camry will sell waaaaay before a 25,000 mile Kia ever will ...
>>>**I already convinced myself that I can put up with the KIA reliability and comfort....**
Kia isn't known for it's reliabilty factor .... there is thousands upon thousands of Camry's out there with 150/175/200,000+ miles rollin' around ... and Kia might have 3 if you count Puerto Rico as a state ....
If you're comparing price and model .. an 05 Kia Optima LX with tiny little miles ain't doing much more than the $8's at the auctions (and thats "if" they're not standing in MBB lane) -- and you're paying $12..??
Lots of nice cars out there .. right now you're only batting 50% ....
Terry.
If you're flexible on what you want, you might even look to see if there are left-over 2005s in a model you'd like. You can get some superb deals in that case.
Personally, audi8 gives good advice.
That, of course, is the best financial advice.
My guess, in 5 years, that Kia won't be worth bupkus, either. Terry would have better insight as to what a 5 year old Kia may be worth, though.