I personally don't want to talk about "paint sealant" or any other of those types of products. The emphasis put on that stuff here amazes me and its such an insiginficant part of everything, so i'm officially done discussing those.
GRAPHICGUY-You are exactly right, you don't know when or how bad a failure will be, and it is somewhat of a "crap shoot." You can have a $2 fuse or have a major computer fail, or both many many times. You just don't know, anything can happen at anytime. Personally, if i don't lease i always purchase gap and a warranty if i think i'm gonna keep the vehicle. To me it just makes sense to be protected in both cases.
That was just an example to show that nothing is perfect and even at near perfect 99.9%, there is still 2 situations that could cost a lot of money. The majority of cars are no where near that reliable. This is edmunds, im sure there are stats to show it somewhere on the site. Oh and a car thats 99% reliable will have some sort of failure on average every 3 months. Its just simple math.
I am wanting to purchase a 2008 Mazda CX-7....have shopped for some different deals and am waiting on some additional ones. The issue: I have an excellent '06 Ford Explorer, fairly loaded.....trade in sites value it between $11,500 & $13,000. Retail sale around $16,000. I owe $21,000. I know there is no magic formula to make up the difference (except for money) but does anyone have suggestions on how to minimize the hit? Also suggestions for financing other than a dealership? I'm trying to get this done in the next couple of days to take advantage of the end of the quarter deals that are available.
My test on extended warranty is twofold: 1. Do I need one. 2. Is the price justified.
1. When buying a cheaper car, my current financial situation is such that even a complete rebuild of an engine/transmission would not ruin me. Yes, it would make a dent and hurt me, but it would not send me to a poor house. Which means, I may purchase it if the price is right, but my financial well-being is not at stake. Moreover, most machines have tendency to break down either at beginning or end of their lifecycle, not in the middle. While first 12 month of mfr warranty is usually worth a lot. Extended warranties happen to pick up the sweet spot of fewest major repair. Just ask the same warranty companies if they would insure a vehicle with 120K miles and wait until they stop laughing....
2. In Florida, extended warranties are regulated as insurance, which basically means the prices are set and non-negotiable (rates are registered with the state commission). Average 2-3 year extension on 25K car runs close to 1.5-2 thousand with $50-100 deductible. So now lets analyze it: a) in case of catastrophic breakdown, it will pay for itself. We all know how unlikely it is to happen, but it may. b) how many smaller repairs, like broken seals, hoses, etc. would it take to pay for the warranty? Anywhere from 3 to 5 repairs, say $500 each (w/ $100 ded it's $400 benefit). All in two or three years of duration. The car would have to be a major lemon - but I don't know that now, when it's new and shiny. c) moreover, most warranties have same price until you reach end of manufacturer's. After three years I could get a better sense whether or not I can expect the car crap out on me - so why buy it at time of purchase? Other than some small extra benefit and ability to finance, there is no real incentive.
So - at the end. Contingent I can be persuaded to spend any money on the added warranty, they are usually not worth the prices they are sold in my state - not for me, anyway, as their cost-to-benefit and cost-to-risk ratios are simply too high. You get me 3 extra years mfrs. warranty for few hundred bucks (with small ded.), I may take it. Two grand - you can forget about it.
The situation may be slightly different if I elected to buy something more expensive, as the "catastrophic" risk increases and impacts my finances by much larger amount (compare 3 grand engine job to 10 grand). But it's again matter of pricing.
mpaxton.....none of this is going to be good news....you already have found that you're upside down....looks to be around $10,000. But, in today's climate....with SUV demand tanked, I'd say you're going to find you're even more upside down than that $10,000. I'm sitting on an '07 Tahoe. Nice vehicle. No one wants it. So, I'm feeling your pain.
Minimize the hit? Best thing I can recommend is to hold onto that Explorer until the wheels fall off. There's no way to minimize the hit in any way I can reasonably see. You might try to sell the Explorer yourself. But, be prepared to write a big check in addition to what anyone will buy it for (if you find a buyer), just to get a clean title.
As I said, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the market is what it is.
DINO001-Thats a great way to look at it. In that situation, you probably wouldn't need one. Do yourself a favor though, as i stated before, there is no predetermined time when a car will breakdown. So don't assume that year 2 through 100k miles will be worry free. I see the reports and breakdowns from our service department, and no two months are the same as far as frequency of repairs in relation to miles/age. The only thing i know, with no warranty protection after the first 3yrs/36000 miles, the customer pays for 100% of repairs, little or big. If you have the money available, good for you, many do not and that's why they opt to spend a few extra dollars a month to ensure they don't have any out of pocket expense. For some people its a nice piece of mind.
fandiguy.....bottom line to all of this, you've got two kinds of people you're trying to sell to. The first kind are the paranoid types....those who believe that something catastrophic will happen to their new cars. Could be a lot of reasons they feel that way. Maybe they had a car that broke their backs in repairs in the past. Maybe they're buying a model that doesn't have a sterling reputation for reliability. Maybe, if they're a payment buyer (something we try to warn against here in these forums), it's an easy sale with the "peace of mind" factor "for only $20 more per month".
Then, you have some, like me, who believes I'll come out ahead, even if I have a failure of some sort, by paying for it out of my own pocket (as opposed to paying that $2,000 for extended warranty). I'm of the mind that the vast majority of new cars aren't going to suffer some sort of catastrophic failure.
Clearly, the odds are in my favor. If they weren't, the extended warranty companies would be out of business by now covering $3,000 in repairs that they only got $2,000 for.
Again, you sound like you're very good at what you do. I'm not your target audience, though.
Unfortunately there's no "magic" or "secret" to help in this situation. You're gonna have a lot of negative equity no matter what you do and the only way to "hide" it would be to look at a vehicle with a huge rebate (which the mazda doesn't have) or to put a bunch of money down to offset it. Even then you might have a hard time getting financed because you'll be borrowing so much more than the new vehicles worth and banks are really tightening up on that kind of stuff. My only suggestion is to get ready to take a hit on trade in and BUY GAP, or hold on to the explorer for a while.
*if you had gap and totalled this vehicle out, it would pay off the loan IN FULL, and in most cases will pay your deductible too. This is a NO BRAINER for you, a $500 gap policy would cost you less than $10 a month and would pay probably around $15000 if you had to use it.
I'm with a full line GM and Chrysler store. Payment buyers, which the majority of people are because they get a loan, see that paying $20 more a month, beats the chance they'll have to pay a few grand out of pocket. Its similar thinking to why people use credit cards, would rather pay a little each month rather than a big chunk at once. They're not paranoid, they just realize anything can happen and they want to be prepared. Plus the warranty you buy now for $2000(i never sell ANY that expensive) will cover repairs in 5-6 years and who knows how expensive things will be then, thats not a sales pitch, its a reality-inflation is a [non-permissible content removed]. Same deal with auto insurance, everyone has it, but rarely does anyone use it. How much have you spent on auto insurance in your life compared to how much you've used it?
fandiguy....ok....now things make more sense. No blasting of your model lineup (although, I've never been a Chrysler fan). You probably do see the vast majority of your customers shopping payments instead of the entire cost of the deal (something that's done in these threads fairly regularly).
I'm probably a bad person to ask about insurance right now. I'm in the midst of "negotiating" with my insurance company for storm damage to my home. I've had my fair share of totaled cars (none of them my fault)...a couple involving uninsured drivers. I'd have to say that both my home owners and automobile policies are both in the negative range with their respective underwriting companies as of right now.
Everyone I have ever known has beaten those odds. I have know people with POS's that shouldn't be on the road beat those odds. I do think he is using poor logic on that one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
wtd44 wrote : " Reliability is an elusive entity to quantify, particularly in the face of great variance in subjective experiences from the subset reporting. " Hat's off, I hereby nominate this post for winner in the 2008 most eloquently stated category. Should richard64 not be banned, or if indeed he is, the Lord Guardian of the Grammar would agree. Back in the day when politicians were both witty and eloquent, yeah, I know it's been a long time.... Benjamin Disraeli, while addressing the House of Lords, the upper House of Parliament, was once censured by the of the Speaker of House for making the statement that half of the House of Commons were both total and compleat idiots. Upon being cautioned by the Speaker of the House who demanded that he immediately retract his accusation. He stood up and announced, Mr.Speaker, I apologise, half of the House of Commons are not total and compleat idiots.
But back to car purchase strategies. Any salesman I know would love to sell to the educated.So learn the vehicle you'd like to buy, and if some profit is to be had, you will drive away.
Hey, folks, we're veering a bit off topic. I'm having a little trouble relating discussions of extended warranties to purchasing strategies since extended warranties are essentially after the fact. However, discussions about other members, past and present, are definitely over the line.
I know you were being sarcastic by saying the profit margin on a car is around 66%, but it is probably around 2-3%. Yes, 2-3%. There is enough info on this site alone to tell you that. Like i stated before, we don't pre install anything, its ALL an option.
I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being funny. That's why I had the smiley.
I like your dealership's approach. Don't preinstall anything, and if you can convince people to buy it, awesome for you.
I'm having a little trouble relating discussions of extended warranties to purchasing strategies since extended warranties are essentially after the fact.
Respectfully,
I don't get your point. After the fact? Wouldn't most be purchased at the time the car is purchased? Or do many folks buy EW's later? For me, if I am at 34K miles it is decision time. If the car has been trouble free then I can't see why I would want an EW at that point. If the car has been unreliable, it is time to go new car shopping if I haven't already got ticked off and traded it away. Why would I want to buy a EW for a car that is cutting the fool? Cut my losses and move on.
I would think that EW's are directly related to "purchasing strategies." Three things I am most concerned about in formulating my purchase strategy:
1. price of car 2. EW -- to buy or not to buy? price of EW? how long will I keep the car? 3. finance terms: interest rate, money factor, fees
It doesn't do much good to focus on #1 only to over pay for #2 & #3. All are part of the purchasing "strategy."
EDIT: Did you move one of my posts to "extended warranties" or am I losing it? It's getting late on the east coast...
That may be but discussing the merits of extended warranties per se is not the topic here and we do have discussions dedicated to that. Also, you may purchase the EW at the time you buy the car but it is not the car and I think "purchasing strategies" refers to the car purchase particulary with regard to negotiation, timing, competing agents, acquisition and use of information and so forth.
There may be separate strategies connected to things like extended warranties, insurance, various service contracts, mop'n'glo add-ons and so forth that are related to the purchase of a car but those are separate topics.
They are strictly ancillary and that is why I am having trouble relating discussion of extended warranties to (car) purchasing strategies.
fandi....no one is indicting you of anything. No one's trying to "outmatch" you at anything. Some of us are consumers. We're trying to tell you how we see things. I've never known any company that's gone belly-up by listening to their customer base.
There was a sales guy who was here about a month ago. Can't remember his name, but he came and went pretty quickly. He bemoaned that his potential customers wouldn't let him finish his car presentation without interrupting him....that they asked too many questions. We tried to tell him that the fact they were interaction, asking questions, interjecting....all of that was a "good thing" in his job. He didn't come back, so I'll assume he's either out of the business. Or, he's struggling because his chief goal was to do a full product demo without interruption, instead of listening to his customer.
As my late Father used to say, "there's a reason God gave us one mouth and two ears.....listen twice as much as you speak".
We welcome all points of view (as long as our KIND hosts let us). Stick around awhile and we'll assimilate you :P
As my late Father used to say, "there's a reason God gave us one mouth and two ears.....listen twice as much as you speak".
My father used to tell me the exact same thing....and its the truth. Especially in a selling environment. You've probably heard the saying "first one to talk loses," when talking about trying to close a deal. Something tells me if i was trying to sell and you were buying, we'd sit in silence for hours!!
I try not to get so heated, but some posts on here beg for it!!
This is a "Purchasing Strategies" discussion for buyers. Your original post asked for any questions. So here's one for you. What advice/strategy would you give for someone wanting a good price on new car? What advice would you give to someone wanting to purchase an extended warranty, or other items from the F & I guy, at the best possible price? How do you handle the low ballers, grinders, laydowns, irrate custumers? etc.
If you want to get the best price on a new car, my advise would be to do research to get an idea of what the cars invoice price is and what others have paid for comparable vehicles. Most dealers will tell you what the rebates are so no need to look into that, but you can if it'd make you more comfortable. Let them make their offer on what the selling price of the car is and make a fair counter, if you try to buy at invoice minus rebates you probably will have to play a little back and forth. A "fair" price would probably be about $500 over invoice, minus all rebates, depending on how expensive the car. That allows you to buy the car way under sticker, still get the rebates, and allows the dealership to "pay the bills," with a little left over for profit. Maybe use a 75/25 split. If your research has shown a 2 grand markup from invoice to sticker, ask for 500 over invoice. If its shown 1600 of markup, ask for 400 over sticker and so on. Whatever you do, don't act as if you have the "game" figured out and you know all the "tricks." That really is a turn-off for a lot of people and will make things a lot harder for both the salesperson and buyer. Show a respect for them and you'll get it in return. Keep in mind this is coming from a GOOD dealerhip with fair sales practices, it might not work at some of these horrific dealerships some of you have described. If you have a trade in, don't expect the dealership to give you RETAIL price for yours if you want to pay invoice or wholesale for theirs. Keep things level on the same page as far as values go. With all thats available online, sales people expect you to negotiate based on your findings. Just keep in mind what you read online isn't 100% accurate, but in most cases can be used as a good guide.
If you honestly have an interest in one of the products in the f&i office and think they are marked up way to high, level with the f&i manager. Say something like "look, i know you need to make a profit, but i'm really interested in but its a little too much, how about you sell it for $50-$100 over cost and we just finish everything up." We get paid on our dollar per car, and more importantly our product penetration, so more than likely they'll be more than happy to make less profit as long as they get the product sale. Warrantys & gap-ask for $100 over. Everything else, ask for $50. Trust me it'll work.
I've been out of the "sales front" for quite a while so i really don't deal with the hagglers low-balling, and all that stuff. I get more of the grinders more than anything and i just state the facts that i know and leave it up to them, most of the real "grinders" will do whatever they want regardless of what I say. I understand i'm not gonna sell everybody everything everytime. I always try to level with my customers and suggest what i feel they'd benefit from in each situation. Laydowns in the f&i office are very very rare. Occasionally i'll get someone who thinks the numbers have changed from what they were told, so i immediately get the salesperson or sales manager involved to clarify. I try to keep it very relaxed and non-confrontational because most people really have thier guard up.
Please remember that our discussions are topic-oriented, and people who decide to read posts in a particular discussion have an expectation that the messages relate to the topic title.
Unfortunately, we've had to move & delete a number of posts in here that were either off-topic or badgering/insulting. It would be helpful, and posts would have a longer life-span, if we could stick to the topic in here, and check for other relevant topics for unrelated conversation (e.g., Extended Warranties). Thanks!
PS - if your post(s) disappeared and weren't bad/off-topic, don't be offended. Sometimes that happens during a topic flush.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I have recived a very good quote for a Chrysler including all September rebates and Septemeber employee pricing, I know it is a gamble that these expire 9/30 and won't be picked up in Ocotober, but given the state of Chrysler and the economy isn't it likely these wil carry over into October and more than likely increase in October? Is it worth waiitng a week to see if there are increases?
Now there's an age old quandary.....take the incentives now? Or, wait to see if they go up or are extended?
No one (probably not even Chrysler) knows the correct answer. I would imagine Chryco will take a look at where they're at next week and decide what incentives to roll out next, if any.
I think it would be fair to say that there will be incentives. But, how much and for how long isn't anything any of us can answer. Manufacturer's certainly keep their future incentives a very well guarded secret, for obvious reasons. They don't want to keep anyone from buying now.
If you've found the car you like and the quote seems like a good one, jump on it! Coming from a Chrysler dealership, these current offers/incentives are the best they've been in as long as i can remember. They've already been extended, and might be agian, but i can almost GUARANTEE they won't get any better. Wait to long and you might have to settle for your second choice!!
i can almost GUARANTEE they won't get any better. Wait to long and you might have to settle for your second choice!!
I agree with fandi on this one...mostly. The incentives on GM and Chrysler products right now are some of the best in a while. That being said, it really depends on your situation. If you love that car and need one now, take the deal (especially if you are financing and have that lined up). If you are paying cash (and I mean you have enough liquid assets to cover the cost of the car right now) I would wait. Chrysler is hitting a rough patch right now (they are scheduled to lay off many employees today - I believe I heard on the news this morning that number was in the thousands). If they're having financial trouble, they may be willing to deal even lower to meet some sales goals.
But seriously, if the numbers are right - do the deal now. If they are not, ask for numbers that are. It doesn't matter what month it is.
... You've probably heard the saying "first one to talk loses." Something tells me if i was trying to sell and you were buying, we'd sit in silence for hours!!
Now, that's funny!!!!!!!!
I've never subscribed to that "whoever talks first loses" technique. If you couldn't tell by now, if I've got something to say, I'll say it.
If I'm in your showroom, I'm there for a reason. I'll tell you the reason. If I'm buying, I'll tell you that. If I'm not, I'll tell you that, too. I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to waste your time, if you agree not to waste mine.
I want the deal to go as smoothly as possible. I want to be in and out as quickly as possible. I want it to be a pleasant experience. If you trust me, I'll trust you.
That said, I will come prepared. I'll have done my research. I will tell you what price I've come up with. And, it will be a simple "I can do that". Or, "I can't do that" proposition.
If we can't deal, no hard feelings. I'll go my way with a "thanks for your time" and a handshake. I'm really easy to deal with.
I buy from dealerships and people I trust. I don't "grind". Usually, I make one offer (sometimes called the "bobst method" around here). It's an offer I've put together based on what I think the car can be bought for. It includes everything (OTD...out the door) including taxes, finance charges (if I'm financing), title, license and doc fees. It's an "all-in" deal. I don't want to be bumped. I don't want to be surprised anywhere in the process.
In special situations, I've actually gone for a bit of "give and take", but that's the exception rather than the rule in my car buying.
On more than one occasion, I've been tempted to go to a place out EAST called Fitzmall. Haven't yet. They carry several brands. But, their philosophy is one I really like. They state their prices right on their internet site on every car they carry.
Their "doc fee" is a straight $99. Depending on make and model, their prices are very near invoice....sometimes below invoice. No add-ons. They've got one price for internet shoppers. Pretty much a straight deal. But, if you live in their locale (which I don't), they also offer a price a little above their internet price, which includes some add-ons like loaner cars. Add tax and title to their posted price, and you're done.
They state exactly what their philosophy is regarding car buying. It's all very straight forward. I like that.
IF you get a chance, go over to their web site. Really good info there.
Warrantys & gap-ask for $100 over. Everything else, ask for $50. Trust me it'll work.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in the market. I'm usually fairly conservative with my money, but I would never rule out the possiblity of an extended warratnty if the price was right. I have two kids, so whatever more peace of mind I can aquire, by getting the extended warranty, can only be benefical to my health.
I try to keep it very relaxed and non-confrontational because most people really have thier guard up.
As a buyer I try to use the same approach. It's just business, if the deal can be made... great, if not then I'll try somewhere else... no hard feelings.
> I don't get your point. After the fact? Wouldn't most be purchased at the time the car is purchased?
No. Not in my case.
I will evaluate how trouble-prone MY car is during the factory warranty and then buy an extended warranty based upon the actual data I have of the exact vehicle that I plan to keep beyond the regular warranty.
Can anyone help me find a Chrysler CDI number? I'm going to try to buy a minivan this weekend and a CDI number would help me choose the Town and Country over the Oddyssey. Any help or advice would be great. Thanks.
I completely agree with you GraphicGuy. Communication is key. If I know what I want/need and what I don't I can save the salespeople time they would spend pitching something I'd never go for.
I do make one (some times 2) offer, but grinding takes too much out of me when compared ith the rewards I reap. I ususally get very positive comments from sales people and the process is pretty painless. IMHO, if you go anywhere with a positve mind set, you'll do fine, if you go thinking "I'll be *&^%", then that's what you'll get. I also don't worry about what is least other people paid, but what's a fair price for me and my situation. I can't deal with the oneupmanship, and there's a lot of people claimig deals much better than tey really got.
There's been a few bad experiences, but they were very brief and I just walked out without wasting one more second. For the most part I actually
Trust me, kindness from customers and the direct approach is always appreciated. Its the whole "i know all the secrets and i don't want you guys to make $1 of profit," attitude that makes our jobs difficult to stomach on some days. I extend a huge THANK YOU to those who are direct and keep an open mind while purchasing a vehicle.
Thanks for your posts f, most agreed direct is the key, As well as anyone that thinks they understand the hidden pockets of profit in a dealership is sadly mistaken. In the middle is an area where the customer feels not ripped off , the dealership receives a profit and the salesman a commission . Life is good, business is terrific, people are wonderful . Now while the following may ostensibly seem off topic it is more of a macro view,Let's hope congress approves a bail out of Wall St. While it may seem offensive, let them reap what they have sown, trust me, you don't want to go down that road. I characterize the last 6 weeks as the Salem Witch trials meet Wall St's inner child who turns out to be chucky. Verily the banks deserve it and were they stupid, no doubt. But should you want to do a lease, or get a customer approved for a loan, good luck unless congress understands the hidden message in the bail out bill. Wall St. had to paint the picture black to get the bail out. But our foreign participants aren't in on the joke and take us quite literally.The following has been a test of the emergency broadcasting system . In the event of a real emergency you would have been directed to a lame Edmunds forum, Not suggesting that such an animal could exist. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Recently when fuel prices really went through the roof, many dealers were not taking SUV trades or offering practically nothing for your SUV trade if they would take it.
Did anyone else notice that the prices on SUV's on the lots were not really lowered?
Ford for example has made few significant discounts on Explorers and Expeditions this summer.
Check out Carmax - the prices on large SUV's are as high as ever.
In the prices paid Sequoia forum, it's been reported that people are getting up to $15K off of MSRP. Never thought I'd see the day Toyota discounting that much. Same for the Tundra.
patrick.....just perusing the new car ads in today's paper, there's a price war ongoing with, at the very least, GM trucks and SUVs (actually, everything the General is making, including Corvettes).
Saw one ad that stated "$1,000 below GM employee pricing on any vehicle...buyer keeps all rebates". Saw another one stating they'll better that offer by adding in a $500 gas card.
Not sure about what Toyota or any other maker is offering, but I see their stock levels on the lots, and their inventory is huge.....particularly with trucks and SUVs.
Went to a roll-out of the new '09 Acura TL last night (very.....very nice cars, BTW). Not in the market, but free food and drink? I'm all over that. Even Acura is overflowing with RDXs and MDXs.
Bottom line, these big hunks aren't selling. Saw another ad for a brand new '08 Tahoe for about 45% off of what the MSRP on my '07 Tahoe was. One of the very few times I wished I had leased.
Being in the midwest, our truck market is pretty much the same as it always has been. We get a lot of farmers and construction workers buying them, but the wholesale and retail values of used ones have dropped considerably because of the "employee price sale." Its just a fact of life, when a new one gets marked down a few grand, the used ones take a similar hit. Some people still have a hard time accepting the fact their trade isn't worth what they thought, but they don't consider how much the new ones are discounted because of the current fuel/financial situation of the "big three." Most of the guides (kbb, nada, etc.) that people swear by, don't adjust their figures quick enough which causes a lot of confusion and anger with some customers thinking we're trying to "steal" their trade.
Comments
GRAPHICGUY-You are exactly right, you don't know when or how bad a failure will be, and it is somewhat of a "crap shoot." You can have a $2 fuse or have a major computer fail, or both many many times. You just don't know, anything can happen at anytime. Personally, if i don't lease i always purchase gap and a warranty if i think i'm gonna keep the vehicle. To me it just makes sense to be protected in both cases.
Which make and model would that be?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I know there is no magic formula to make up the difference (except for money) but does anyone have suggestions on how to minimize the hit? Also suggestions for financing other than a dealership? I'm trying to get this done in the next couple of days to take advantage of the end of the quarter deals that are available.
1. Do I need one.
2. Is the price justified.
1. When buying a cheaper car, my current financial situation is such that even a complete rebuild of an engine/transmission would not ruin me. Yes, it would make a dent and hurt me, but it would not send me to a poor house. Which means, I may purchase it if the price is right, but my financial well-being is not at stake. Moreover, most machines have tendency to break down either at beginning or end of their lifecycle, not in the middle. While first 12 month of mfr warranty is usually worth a lot. Extended warranties happen to pick up the sweet spot of fewest major repair. Just ask the same warranty companies if they would insure a vehicle with 120K miles and wait until they stop laughing....
2. In Florida, extended warranties are regulated as insurance, which basically means the prices are set and non-negotiable (rates are registered with the state commission). Average 2-3 year extension on 25K car runs close to 1.5-2 thousand with $50-100 deductible. So now lets analyze it:
a) in case of catastrophic breakdown, it will pay for itself. We all know how unlikely it is to happen, but it may.
b) how many smaller repairs, like broken seals, hoses, etc. would it take to pay for the warranty? Anywhere from 3 to 5 repairs, say $500 each (w/ $100 ded it's $400 benefit). All in two or three years of duration. The car would have to be a major lemon - but I don't know that now, when it's new and shiny.
c) moreover, most warranties have same price until you reach end of manufacturer's. After three years I could get a better sense whether or not I can expect the car crap out on me - so why buy it at time of purchase? Other than some small extra benefit and ability to finance, there is no real incentive.
So - at the end. Contingent I can be persuaded to spend any money on the added warranty, they are usually not worth the prices they are sold in my state - not for me, anyway, as their cost-to-benefit and cost-to-risk ratios are simply too high. You get me 3 extra years mfrs. warranty for few hundred bucks (with small ded.), I may take it. Two grand - you can forget about it.
The situation may be slightly different if I elected to buy something more expensive, as the "catastrophic" risk increases and impacts my finances by much larger amount (compare 3 grand engine job to 10 grand). But it's again matter of pricing.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Minimize the hit? Best thing I can recommend is to hold onto that Explorer until the wheels fall off. There's no way to minimize the hit in any way I can reasonably see. You might try to sell the Explorer yourself. But, be prepared to write a big check in addition to what anyone will buy it for (if you find a buyer), just to get a clean title.
As I said, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the market is what it is.
Then, you have some, like me, who believes I'll come out ahead, even if I have a failure of some sort, by paying for it out of my own pocket (as opposed to paying that $2,000 for extended warranty). I'm of the mind that the vast majority of new cars aren't going to suffer some sort of catastrophic failure.
Clearly, the odds are in my favor. If they weren't, the extended warranty companies would be out of business by now covering $3,000 in repairs that they only got $2,000 for.
Again, you sound like you're very good at what you do. I'm not your target audience, though.
What car line are you associated with?
*if you had gap and totalled this vehicle out, it would pay off the loan IN FULL, and in most cases will pay your deductible too. This is a NO BRAINER for you, a $500 gap policy would cost you less than $10 a month and would pay probably around $15000 if you had to use it.
I'm probably a bad person to ask about insurance right now. I'm in the midst of "negotiating" with my insurance company for storm damage to my home. I've had my fair share of totaled cars (none of them my fault)...a couple involving uninsured drivers. I'd have to say that both my home owners and automobile policies are both in the negative range with their respective underwriting companies as of right now.
Everyone I have ever known has beaten those odds. I have know people with POS's that shouldn't be on the road beat those odds. I do think he is using poor logic on that one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
HUH...I know I'm going to sound like Ray Charles here but 'what did he say' :confuse: :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
" Reliability is an elusive entity to quantify, particularly in the face of great variance in subjective experiences from the subset reporting. "
Hat's off, I hereby nominate this post for winner in the 2008 most eloquently stated category. Should richard64 not be banned, or if indeed he is, the Lord Guardian of the Grammar would agree.
Back in the day when politicians were both witty and eloquent, yeah, I know it's been a long time....
Benjamin Disraeli, while addressing the House of Lords, the upper House of Parliament, was once censured by the of the Speaker of House for making the statement that half of the House of Commons were both total and compleat idiots.
Upon being cautioned by the Speaker of the House who demanded that he immediately retract his accusation. He stood up and announced, Mr.Speaker, I apologise, half of the House of Commons are not total and compleat idiots.
But back to car purchase strategies. Any salesman I know would love to sell to the educated.So learn the vehicle you'd like to buy, and if some profit is to be had, you will drive away.
Where is the Professor when we need him?
But I love the wit of Benjamin Disraeli......
Let's try harder to stay on topic. Thanks.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I spend upwards of an hour trying on shoes...and I may not buy.
The last time I bought a car, it lasted less than an hour
I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being funny. That's why I had the smiley.
I like your dealership's approach. Don't preinstall anything, and if you can convince people to buy it, awesome for you.
Angel
Respectfully,
I don't get your point. After the fact? Wouldn't most be purchased at the time the car is purchased? Or do many folks buy EW's later? For me, if I am at 34K miles it is decision time. If the car has been trouble free then I can't see why I would want an EW at that point. If the car has been unreliable, it is time to go new car shopping if I haven't already got ticked off and traded it away. Why would I want to buy a EW for a car that is cutting the fool? Cut my losses and move on.
I would think that EW's are directly related to "purchasing strategies." Three things I am most concerned about in formulating my purchase strategy:
1. price of car
2. EW -- to buy or not to buy? price of EW? how long will I keep the car?
3. finance terms: interest rate, money factor, fees
It doesn't do much good to focus on #1 only to over pay for #2 & #3. All are part of the purchasing "strategy."
EDIT: Did you move one of my posts to "extended warranties" or am I losing it? It's getting late on the east coast...
There may be separate strategies connected to things like extended warranties, insurance, various service contracts, mop'n'glo add-ons and so forth that are related to the purchase of a car but those are separate topics.
They are strictly ancillary and that is why I am having trouble relating discussion of extended warranties to (car) purchasing strategies.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I'm so disappointed. :sick:
There was a sales guy who was here about a month ago. Can't remember his name, but he came and went pretty quickly. He bemoaned that his potential customers wouldn't let him finish his car presentation without interrupting him....that they asked too many questions. We tried to tell him that the fact they were interaction, asking questions, interjecting....all of that was a "good thing" in his job. He didn't come back, so I'll assume he's either out of the business. Or, he's struggling because his chief goal was to do a full product demo without interruption, instead of listening to his customer.
As my late Father used to say, "there's a reason God gave us one mouth and two ears.....listen twice as much as you speak".
We welcome all points of view (as long as our KIND hosts let us). Stick around awhile and we'll assimilate you :P
My father used to tell me the exact same thing....and its the truth. Especially in a selling environment. You've probably heard the saying "first one to talk loses," when talking about trying to close a deal. Something tells me if i was trying to sell and you were buying, we'd sit in silence for hours!!
I try not to get so heated, but some posts on here beg for it!!
Not worth getting riled up over.
If you want to get the best price on a new car, my advise would be to do research to get an idea of what the cars invoice price is and what others have paid for comparable vehicles. Most dealers will tell you what the rebates are so no need to look into that, but you can if it'd make you more comfortable. Let them make their offer on what the selling price of the car is and make a fair counter, if you try to buy at invoice minus rebates you probably will have to play a little back and forth. A "fair" price would probably be about $500 over invoice, minus all rebates, depending on how expensive the car. That allows you to buy the car way under sticker, still get the rebates, and allows the dealership to "pay the bills," with a little left over for profit. Maybe use a 75/25 split. If your research has shown a 2 grand markup from invoice to sticker, ask for 500 over invoice. If its shown 1600 of markup, ask for 400 over sticker and so on. Whatever you do, don't act as if you have the "game" figured out and you know all the "tricks." That really is a turn-off for a lot of people and will make things a lot harder for both the salesperson and buyer. Show a respect for them and you'll get it in return. Keep in mind this is coming from a GOOD dealerhip with fair sales practices, it might not work at some of these horrific dealerships some of you have described. If you have a trade in, don't expect the dealership to give you RETAIL price for yours if you want to pay invoice or wholesale for theirs. Keep things level on the same page as far as values go. With all thats available online, sales people expect you to negotiate based on your findings. Just keep in mind what you read online isn't 100% accurate, but in most cases can be used as a good guide.
If you honestly have an interest in one of the products in the f&i office and think they are marked up way to high, level with the f&i manager. Say something like "look, i know you need to make a profit, but i'm really interested in but its a little too much, how about you sell it for $50-$100 over cost and we just finish everything up." We get paid on our dollar per car, and more importantly our product penetration, so more than likely they'll be more than happy to make less profit as long as they get the product sale. Warrantys & gap-ask for $100 over. Everything else, ask for $50. Trust me it'll work.
I've been out of the "sales front" for quite a while so i really don't deal with the hagglers low-balling, and all that stuff. I get more of the grinders more than anything and i just state the facts that i know and leave it up to them, most of the real "grinders" will do whatever they want regardless of what I say. I understand i'm not gonna sell everybody everything everytime. I always try to level with my customers and suggest what i feel they'd benefit from in each situation. Laydowns in the f&i office are very very rare. Occasionally i'll get someone who thinks the numbers have changed from what they were told, so i immediately get the salesperson or sales manager involved to clarify. I try to keep it very relaxed and non-confrontational because most people really have thier guard up.
Please remember that our discussions are topic-oriented, and people who decide to read posts in a particular discussion have an expectation that the messages relate to the topic title.
Unfortunately, we've had to move & delete a number of posts in here that were either off-topic or badgering/insulting. It would be helpful, and posts would have a longer life-span, if we could stick to the topic in here, and check for other relevant topics for unrelated conversation (e.g., Extended Warranties). Thanks!
PS - if your post(s) disappeared and weren't bad/off-topic, don't be offended. Sometimes that happens during a topic flush.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
No one (probably not even Chrysler) knows the correct answer. I would imagine Chryco will take a look at where they're at next week and decide what incentives to roll out next, if any.
I think it would be fair to say that there will be incentives. But, how much and for how long isn't anything any of us can answer. Manufacturer's certainly keep their future incentives a very well guarded secret, for obvious reasons. They don't want to keep anyone from buying now.
How much to you like to gamble?
I agree with fandi on this one...mostly. The incentives on GM and Chrysler products right now are some of the best in a while. That being said, it really depends on your situation. If you love that car and need one now, take the deal (especially if you are financing and have that lined up). If you are paying cash (and I mean you have enough liquid assets to cover the cost of the car right now) I would wait. Chrysler is hitting a rough patch right now (they are scheduled to lay off many employees today - I believe I heard on the news this morning that number was in the thousands). If they're having financial trouble, they may be willing to deal even lower to meet some sales goals.
But seriously, if the numbers are right - do the deal now. If they are not, ask for numbers that are. It doesn't matter what month it is.
Peace
Now, that's funny!!!!!!!!
I've never subscribed to that "whoever talks first loses" technique. If you couldn't tell by now, if I've got something to say, I'll say it.
If I'm in your showroom, I'm there for a reason. I'll tell you the reason. If I'm buying, I'll tell you that. If I'm not, I'll tell you that, too. I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to waste your time, if you agree not to waste mine.
I want the deal to go as smoothly as possible. I want to be in and out as quickly as possible. I want it to be a pleasant experience. If you trust me, I'll trust you.
That said, I will come prepared. I'll have done my research. I will tell you what price I've come up with. And, it will be a simple "I can do that". Or, "I can't do that" proposition.
If we can't deal, no hard feelings. I'll go my way with a "thanks for your time" and a handshake. I'm really easy to deal with.
I buy from dealerships and people I trust. I don't "grind". Usually, I make one offer (sometimes called the "bobst method" around here). It's an offer I've put together based on what I think the car can be bought for. It includes everything (OTD...out the door) including taxes, finance charges (if I'm financing), title, license and doc fees. It's an "all-in" deal. I don't want to be bumped. I don't want to be surprised anywhere in the process.
In special situations, I've actually gone for a bit of "give and take", but that's the exception rather than the rule in my car buying.
On more than one occasion, I've been tempted to go to a place out EAST called Fitzmall. Haven't yet. They carry several brands. But, their philosophy is one I really like. They state their prices right on their internet site on every car they carry.
Their "doc fee" is a straight $99. Depending on make and model, their prices are very near invoice....sometimes below invoice. No add-ons. They've got one price for internet shoppers. Pretty much a straight deal. But, if you live in their locale (which I don't), they also offer a price a little above their internet price, which includes some add-ons like loaner cars. Add tax and title to their posted price, and you're done.
They state exactly what their philosophy is regarding car buying. It's all very straight forward. I like that.
IF you get a chance, go over to their web site. Really good info there.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in the market. I'm usually fairly conservative with my money, but I would never rule out the possiblity of an extended warratnty if the price was right. I have two kids, so whatever more peace of mind I can aquire, by getting the extended warranty, can only be benefical to my health.
I try to keep it very relaxed and non-confrontational because most people really have thier guard up.
As a buyer I try to use the same approach. It's just business, if the deal can be made... great, if not then I'll try somewhere else... no hard feelings.
No. Not in my case.
I will evaluate how trouble-prone MY car is during the factory warranty and then buy an extended warranty based upon the actual data I have of the exact vehicle that I plan to keep beyond the regular warranty.
I do make one (some times 2) offer, but grinding takes too much out of me when compared ith the rewards I reap. I ususally get very positive comments from sales people and the process is pretty painless. IMHO, if you go anywhere with a positve mind set, you'll do fine, if you go thinking "I'll be *&^%", then that's what you'll get. I also don't worry about what is least other people paid, but what's a fair price for me and my situation. I can't deal with the oneupmanship, and there's a lot of people claimig deals much better than tey really got.
There's been a few bad experiences, but they were very brief and I just walked out without wasting one more second. For the most part I actually
I was saying that for the most part I actually enjoy the car buying experience and I even help friends when they ask me to.
Now while the following may ostensibly seem off topic it is more of a macro view,Let's hope congress approves a bail out of Wall St. While it may seem offensive, let them reap what they have sown, trust me, you don't want to go down that road. I characterize the last 6 weeks as the Salem Witch trials meet Wall St's inner child who turns out to be chucky. Verily the banks deserve it and were they stupid, no doubt. But should you want to do a lease, or get a customer approved for a loan, good luck unless congress understands the hidden message in the bail out bill. Wall St. had to paint the picture black to get the bail out. But our foreign participants aren't in on the joke and take us quite literally.The following has been a test of the emergency broadcasting system . In the event of a real emergency you would have been directed to a lame Edmunds forum, Not suggesting that such an animal could exist.
buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Did anyone else notice that the prices on SUV's on the lots were not really lowered?
Ford for example has made few significant discounts on Explorers and Expeditions this summer.
Check out Carmax - the prices on large SUV's are as high as ever.
I think it was - and still is - a big hustle.
Saw one ad that stated "$1,000 below GM employee pricing on any vehicle...buyer keeps all rebates". Saw another one stating they'll better that offer by adding in a $500 gas card.
Not sure about what Toyota or any other maker is offering, but I see their stock levels on the lots, and their inventory is huge.....particularly with trucks and SUVs.
Went to a roll-out of the new '09 Acura TL last night (very.....very nice cars, BTW). Not in the market, but free food and drink? I'm all over that. Even Acura is overflowing with RDXs and MDXs.
Bottom line, these big hunks aren't selling. Saw another ad for a brand new '08 Tahoe for about 45% off of what the MSRP on my '07 Tahoe was. One of the very few times I wished I had leased.
And I always thought it was because if it were the other way around, nobody would ever get a date. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Nobody wants them!
Man!! How did I miss out on that?! I can even write off my mileage..lol
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Also, I wonder if the GM Employee price is that good of a deal? I just looked at a 2008 Tahoe LS 2WD for 27k + Tax, etc...
I always use Intelliprice for valuation on trades.
I guess late model used is still the way to go for me. I don't want a $500/month car payment - that get's old real quick.