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Increasingly it appears that there is no future for the stick shift.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I think the Altima, which was available with a 6 MT a couple of years ago, is now auto only. Could the Accord go auto only? Well, the Acura TL is now auto only except for one high end model that costs c.42k. A few years ago you could get a base TL with a 6mt for 32k or so.
Man it really bums me out. I love the manual on my Accord. It makes it way fun to drive.
The other thing that worries me is that hydraulic steering seems to be going to the way of the dodo and the manual too. Have you noticed how so many reviews of new cars comment on the numb, lifeless, robotic electric steering--even for high end cars like the Acura TSX.
I assume that's what's next for the Accord as well. Auto and electric steering. I think that's what the Audi A4 already has....sigh...
Don't be quite so afraid of electric power steering for steering feel. There is no reason that having the rack or column mounted electric motor will kill steering feel. Toyota just has a crappy system because they decided people don't care about steering feel.
This electronic power steering lets you do the automatic parallel parking stuff, the Lane Assist stuff, etc. Its main claim to fame though is the fuel savings.
The bottom line is companies that don't care about steering feel will have systems that don't provide it, companies that like to make fun to drive cars will.
I'm surprised yours was the only response, though, wouldn't that have been cool? :shades:
And on a sidenote, what the hell is sporty about a 3600-pound wagon with a 4-cylinder engine making 170 lb-ft of torque and a slushbox automatic for its only transmission choice???
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Ford should definitely make a Taurus/SHO wagon, I 'd be interested.
Like Shifty I do think that Standards work better in smaller cars. I've had them in all sizes of cars including an original SHO.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
And... why am I not surprised...
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And in more developed areas, it can be had with a normal front end, a stick, and a diesel...
Yup, and I'd buy one in a heartbeat, except that in such an environment I'd have already bought a 325d estate with 6-speed, real tires & a dipstick back in about '06.
Of course, the same thing could be said of Jimmy Durante, in comparison to Cyrano de Bergerac...
With a stick, that 4-cylinder has plenty of pep, and is fun to drive... plus, overall, the wagon is a real looker..
It's just disappointing... I don't think the marketers realize that it is enthusiasts that buy wagons now...
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TSX with the 2.4 and an automatic is not even under consideration - it is a poster child for mediocrity and wasted potential.
Of course, if that's what you prefer, then may your wishes come true!
One other advantage to driving like this is 34.3 mpg over 80,000 miles.
To me sporty is about connection to the car and handling capability. I don't really feel the need to race at every stop light, so I just cruise through the gears and savor a nice relaxed shift.
I think there is less frequent shifting with a diesel than with a gasser, thanks to the additional low-end torque - so that a manual transmission is an even better match with a diesel-engine than with a slushbox or other automatic.
Manual shifters are actually more fun in low torque applications where you need to rev the whee out of 'em to keep up speed.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Best regards,
Shipo
I was referring to the much narrower powerband of diesel engines. As long as the driving style is such that there is no revving much beyond 3000-3500 rpm, then the low end torque based driving style is quite relaxed, and IMO, better with an automatic gearbox. However, if one's style uses all of the power band of an engine, then a gasoline motor is much better suited to a manual gearbox.
Yes, I have experience with the new technology diesels from Europe, and I base my comments off that experience directly.
As long as one is within a typical European city, the modern diesel engine is fine, and I think better with an auto box. A manual gearbox style that relies on low end torque would be my second choice in this scenario.
On the open road, or where one relies on horsepower (as opposed to torque), no doubt a gasoline motor with a proper three pedal honest-to-God manual is the best. A great city diesel is not so enjoyable in the mountain twisties compared to a gasoline equivalent.
Again, these are my opinions only. I am sure I will enjoy other peoples' comments as much as I hope they do mine.
PS: There was an recent article in the Motoring section of the Daily Telegraph (a British newspaper) where they compared to long term cost of modern diesels and their gasoline equivalents. Even within the EU environment, diesel powered cars were economical only with much higher than average annual mileages, and this was when expensive components like the diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and Dual Mass flywheel (DMF) did not need replacements. If one of these components failed, or there was an issue with the high pressure direct injection system (DIS), the costs of repair, if not covered by warranty, would swallow up all the cost advantage and then some. Of course, a diesel engine without these three critical components (DPF/DMF/DIS) is pretty close to the old cantankerous diesel of the olden days.
- I've driven both the E320 Diesel (auto only) as well as the Golf TDI (both DSG and Manual), so driving perspectives are limited to just these two.
- None of the three diesels that I've driven had any problem with 200+ KPH speeds.
- Even on the Paris Périphérique in rush-hour traffic I preferred the Golf's manual gearbox over the DSG; personal preference I guess.
- While horsepower may be king on the open road, the 530i that I picked up in Germany a few years back had no problem being thoroughly embarrassed by diesels of all stripes. Granted my car was top-speed limited to 128 mph, but when a Golf TDI would blow by me with an easy 20-30 mph cushion, I fail to see the point regarding HP.
- Granted the Diesels have a narrower powerband than gasoline engines with similar HP ratings, however, unless I'm missing something, the gearing in the Golfs that I drove was very well matched to the RPM range of the TDI, and I had absolutely no sense of needing to shift more often that I otherwise would have expected. My Mazda3 on the other hand is so gutless on the low end that I find that I'm constantly shifting from 5th to 4th to 3rd, just to climb the local hills we have around here, the U.S. spec Jetta 6-Speed that I drove last year had no such problem.
Best regards,
Shipo
I don't know if it was the way the e-throttle was programmed or an actual problem related to turbo lag, but I would be sure to avoid the TDI/DSG combo.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Hit the gas and ... and ... BAM you get major thrust, after the pause.
I found it fairly annoying.
I wonder how much better the new Benz diesel is. Haven't driven a TDI in ages so I can't comment.
Then I found today a funny story in Motor Trend about rare manuals in the us....
"Mazda5
Drivetrain: 5-speed, front-drive
Engine: 2.3-liter/153-hp/148 lb-ft DOHC 16-valve I-4
Price: $18,745
Yes, really. The Mazda5, which is often known as "that-minivan-lookin'-whatchamacallit thing," comes with a stick. The five-speed saves $1440 off the cover price and returns 1 mpg better fuel economy city and highway. Downside? It's only available with the entry "Sport" trim, meaning you can't combine it with leather and a navigation system.
At the 2010 Geneva auto show, Mazda unveiled the next generation of the Mazda5 with a six-speed and two engine options. Those in Europe and Japan will enjoy what they know as the Premacy with either a 1.8-liter or a 2.0-liter gas engine with stop-start. But Mazda isn't ready to say what engine or transmission is heading to our shores.
Take rate: 6 percent
Odds of a Mazda5 manual being sold: 8131 to 1
Odds of being considered possessed by a Satanic force in the U.S.: 7000 to 1"
10 Cars You Didn't Know You Could Get With a Stick
The Manual Lives! And In the Oddest of Places
April 23, 2010
/ By Carlos Lago
Buick Regal Front Three Quarter
Click to view Gallery
The life of the manual transmission may seem fleeting, but we're not writing an epitaph yet. Sure, the Italian thoroughbreds like Ferrari and Lamborghini are receding from the row-your-own style, yet every single major automaker in the U.S. still offers standard transmissions, sometimes as the sporty pick, but often as the budget model.
The manual transmission remains plenty available in the market, and sometimes in the most unexpected places. To wit, how about three SUVs and a minivan? Or an upcoming Buick? Forget enthusiasts’ cars. Chances are your neighbor's "boring" mid-size sedan is available with a six-speed and a clutch, too.
Toyota Camry Rear Three Quarter
Click to view Gallery
We scoured the lineups of the biggest automakers in North America to find the most peculiar offerings. Then we found out the percentage of said offerings actually sold with a manual, and the take rate. And then we calculated some rather surprising odds. Here are our findings.
Acura TL SH-AWD
Drivetrain: 6-speed, all-wheel drive
Engines: 3.7L/305-hp/273 lb-ft SOHC 24-valve V-6
Price: $43,195
Acura began offering a manual TL in March, joining a niche club of luxury automakers that offer a standard transmission with all-wheel drive (see BMW 335ix and Audi A4 quattro). It's the first application of manual to Acura's optimistically titled Super Handling All-Wheel Drive system, and with it, the TL weighs 110 pounds less than its slushbox counterpart.
Honda and Acura have a reputation to live up to with shift feeling, so obvious care was taken in tuning the TL's linkage. Throws are short and precise, and clutch weight feels just right. The manual alone costs the same as the automatic, but is only available with the technology package. (Acura also offers a six-speed manual with the TSX. Its take rate mirrors that of the TL.)
Take rate: 5 percent
Odds of a manual TL being sold: 6305 to 1
Odds of a golfer hitting a hole-in-one: 5000 to 1
Audi A5
Drivetrain: 6-speed, front- and all-wheel drive
Engine: 2.0L/211-hp/258 lb-ft DOHC 16-valve turbocharged I-4
Price: $36,825
Find a turbo 2.0-liter in Audi's lineup, and chances are you can pair it with a stick. The A4 has one, so it shouldn’t be surprising that its A5 sibling does too. And yet, it is.
A six-speed manual marks the A5's entry point; the front-drive model cuts beneath the automatic by $1200 (adding all-wheel drive bumps the price to $3500). The gearbox only comes with the 2.0-liter mill; Audi dropped the manual option for the 3.2-liter V-6 last year.
If 211 horses aren’t enough, a leap up the model hierarchy will land you in the V-8-powered S5. It starts with a six-speed, too, and 50 percent of its buyers leave it that way.
Take rate: 10 percent
Odds of a manual A5 being sold: 6778 to 1
Odds of you being a practicing nudist and a member of the American Association for Nude Recreation: 5000 to 1....
zaken1, "Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?" #7994, 12 May 2010 8:59 pm
I had to bleed the clutch on my Miata. The fluid was brown - totally spent. The pedal went soft.
I spent under $13 even with a rebuild of the slave cylinder.
I bet on that Jeep you'd spend 10-20 times as much. :sick:
fintail, "Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?" #8151, 24 May 2010 10:54 am
I like cars that come with manual transmissions only. Seeing a Mazdaspeed 3 on the road invites a sense of kinship -- just like you, that other driver has bought this car even though it meant having to "deal" with a manual transmission. On the flip side, ninety-something percent of the driving public would never even consider this car because it doesn't offer an auto.
It's certainly a poor business plan -- Mazda could sell way more Mazdaspeed 3s if it offered an automatic or an automated dual clutch manual. Even so, cars like the MS3 get an extra point of coolness in my book.
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/
Yes, that was Edmunds' very own Brent of the editorial staff.
And you can have that same feeling in a Civic SI or, since '08, a WRX. Makes me want to go out and buy one of those just for that. And on a related note, it's such a travesty that they make a GTI with an automatic.....
And by the way, I disagree with the editor on one point: there is no way that 90-something percent of the public passes these cars up because they don't offer an auto - all these models are dedicated to performance, and performance drivers are much more apt to take a manual than the overall 8% manual take rate for all types of automobiles. Doesn't WRX still have a take rate of better than 50% for the manual?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The WRX is manual. The 2.5 GT is the automatic model. And no, it doesn't sell nearly as well, so you are basically correct.
Now I will try to start making more sense in my posts! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Funny, eh? Manual trans only, for once.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Funny side effect of his picking up this new skill set; virtually all of his friends whom have access to cars with manual transmissions have dedicated themselves to learning as well, and it now seems that it is a definite status symbol around his high-school to be able to drive a car with three pedals under the dash. Latest count of sixteen year-old drivers in our area becomming accomplished stick drivers, 12. Not too shabby.
Best regards,
Shipo
I taught my wife and little brother. My kids will learn, for sure.
Actually I think there are 14 teenagers in the U.S.; my nephew and niece can both stir their own as well and they live just north of Detroit (a pretty good hop from Cow Hamster where we live).
Fortunately my wife had learned to drive a stick long before I met her, and when we first started discussion buying a minivan due to our growing family she said, "Well, do they come in a stick?"
"Uhhh," I stammered, "no, at least not here in the States."
"Well then you're driving it."
Our son (now with a minivan) asked me last week if we could convert the 1998 Chrysler Town&Country LXi to a manual transmission. "Uhhh," I stammered again some 12 years after talking with my wife about this subject, "sorry buddy, not happening."
Best regards,
Shipo