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Definatly not up to the standards of a factory roof but way improved over the earlier offerings. If it's aftermarket, they never seem to operate as quietly and smoothly as a factory roof.
When I was in the tool business one day I was in a shop that installed aftermarket roofs mostly for the local car dealers. A large crowd of guys were standing around staring at a brand new Lincoln that had been BUTCHERED.
The installed had cut a large hole and got it badly COCKEYED!
The air was filled with very bad words and I beat a hasty retreat. I have no idea what they did with that car.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- gId=57386502&listingRecNum=2&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26alMdId%3D22310%26mkId%3D20- 005%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D22310%26rd%3D100%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId- -mdId-transTypeId%26zc%3D20854%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2D- ir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26alMkId%3D20005%26transTypeId%3D28112%- 26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national
I found another one (newer, 2007 I think) with 50K for only a couple grand more.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The X3 with the stick is a nice set-up.. Decent mileage, decent room, plenty of oomph.... and, a giant panoramic moonroof (noisy with the shade open, though... even with the sunroof closed).
Plus, it is a blast to drive..
I'm guessing much better deals on the '06s... 225 hp is still plenty...
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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So he's sleeping on it. He's driving our dad's Outback so no major rush. That dealer is supposed to get manual Forester Premiums in March.
Funny - dealers complain that noone buys manuals, yet here we are searching the entire Mid Atlantic only to find just a pair of them in the wrong colors. It's nuts. I've searched a dozen dealerships, and even used.
Seems more like short supply than lack of demand. Most of them sell with a deposit before they even arrive. Once they get a VIN my brother might just leave a deposit to avoid having to wait another month. Ridiculous.
It would seem that since the "mini depression" year (2009 MY sales of 10.4 M vs 14 M to 16 M in "better years") that most to ALL oem's are VERY careful on both the inventory and product lines.
Even the "highly successfull" American Corvette Chevrolet/GM line builds cars that have an order attached (dealer, person, entity, purpose) . As such, I have read in passing that manual transmission are 25% of the Corvette fleet. I am swagging here, but it would probably be of less percentage if Corvette did not designate (only manual transmission) for certain " trim" lines i.e., Z06.
So for example, 2001 Z06 were app 5,300/34,000. So while the Z06 was 100% manual transmission, overall that represented 15.7% of total Corvette production. That means that overwhelmingly, most (of the rest- 28,700) ordered automatic transmissions.
Before the Subaru WRX went manual-only, well over half of the sales were manuals. I think a lot of the other Imprezas are sold with manuals too.
Outback, not so much. Even at my local place, it is hard finding manual-shift Outbacks - they usually have about 40 automatics and one manual, and if the manual gets bought by a guy who came in yesterday, you will be out of luck today and for the rest of the week until they get ONE to replace it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Problem is, more and more they are limiting manuals to specific models, i.e. the WRX and Legacy GT.
Wrong, VERY..
As a minimum the roof structure that is built specifically for a moonroof has drain lines, usually at the back, to drain away any water that leaks through the seals or otherwise.
That's just nonsense. They are lazy and dislike manuals. They generally order them as a budget model, since they make less *profit* on a manual equipped vehicle as well as the eventual automatic transmission repair (both in rebate from the factory to fix it under warranty as well as if you have to get it done out of warranty).
20% of the U.S. wants to drive manuals. Dealerships want something that gives them more profit, higher repair costs, and that they can sell off at the end of the year to a fleet or put someone into a lease(notice how almost all lease programs and incentives are NOT for manual equipped vehicles). Buying the Automatic is the safe choice. Much to that 20% of the population's annoyance.
The reason they have a problem selling them at times is because nobody wants a stripped-down car with manual unless it's a cheap car used for deliveries and the like (ie - a Yaris or Kia Rio or similar). Anything better and the individual wants a proper car. Just with manual. Finding one that's not a base model is impossibly hard and finding one *used* - Well, I have had people who actually work selling used cars tell me that cars like a C Class or 3 series are gone in 24-48 hours if they have a manual. Auto dealers love to get their hands on a luxury or upper-tier car with manual as they will have people calling from out of state wanting to look at it.
Assuming, of course, that his luck has changed for the better! :surprise:
Otherwise when they do hit the markets (dealerships), all a particular dealer has to do is query the system and either they or the customer just needs to go (physically) to get the car that meets his specifications. Now I do not know if Subaru does this specifically, but VW and GM/Corvette certainly do. I would think it does as Subaru is more of a niche market player and why would they intentionally mis-order products customers really do not want to buy ??
* he hit a suicidal deer last month
* then his Legacy was totaled by a multi-car pileup
* then we get hit in the SX4 during the test drive
Let's hope that's it!
I did advise him to get insurance quotes before he buys a car, given he seems to have a target painted on him.
So for example on more higher paying jobs , employers actually run back ground checks to include credit/financial checks and motor vehicle checks.
Same amount of profit selling a manual than an automatic.
As far as repair costs modern automatics will usually last the life of a car. It's clutches that need replacement depending on the driver and who is to say the dealership shop will get the repair job?
Dealers order and stock cars that SELL QUICKLY and for most makes, manuals aren't in demand. With allocations set up as they are, for every manual a store orders means one less automatic that they can have.
I did work selling used cars for almost 14 years and I can tell you that UNLESS you find the right buyer, sticks are tough to sell especially in luxury cars.
Were it not for a stick hating wife, I could be very happy driving a manual so don't think I have anything against them. I'm just stating the facts!
and considering that Honda had to settle a class action suit, no it was not a few cranks on the internet that had bad luck!
and for the most part, a clutch is a life of the car item too, unless you are getting into real high miles (and at that point, I would still worry about the tranny more). Especially at the cost, since if the trans in my Ody fails, it is $5K or so. Clutch in my accord? $500 more like it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It will be interesting to me in a couple years when we finally replace my wifes minivan (after a run of 3 vans, she has had enough). Current plan is a mid size wagon/crossover of some kind (Though I love the upcoming C maxx).
interesting part, at least now, some of the options we like come with a stick if you want. So I wonder if she will want to go back to being a stick driver? She was for about 10 years after we got married (and I tought her, fun times!) up until the 2nd child brought the 1st minivan with her.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The actual failures weren 't nearly as bad as the internet boards would have yuou believe but still way higher than they should have been and unusual for Honda. To their credit, they went WAY beyond what they had to do by fixing cars well beyond their warranty period.
You should have seen some of these Odysseys that came into the shop thrashed inside and out with roof racks, Class 3 hitches etc.
I can make a clutch last the life of a car but you might be surprised at how a lot of stick drivers really don't know how to drive one properly.
And, in addition to clutches, bearings and syncros sometimes go bad too so it's not like a person would never have a problem with a manual.
We could have said exploding CR-V AC compressors.
My brother's Ody is around 100k now and the transmission is ok.
Unless you call a failure at 150,000 miles to be a "defect" as some did.
I think the failure rate is higher than the norm. And it's not like you loaned your car to a friend and they turned on the AC and burned out the clutch.
Honda CR-V AC Compressor Problems
The last time I was in my old store I had the parts guy look up how manywe had sold and they had hardly sold any at all over the past five years and no more than any other kind of a Honda.
As wilth most "problems" I don't doubt for a minute that some people had to replace theri compressors but we both know how people flock to the problems forums.
My buddy did have to replace the A/C compressor on the 2002 CRV I sold him new but it had something like 240,000 miles on it. The last time I talked to him which was last May, he had something like 335,000 miles.
Other than the A/C compressor, he had to replace his front calipers because one was sticking.
I hope our CRV's do as well but I have no idea how we could ever do those miles. Our 2003 only has 54,000 miles.
Companies don't lose class action law suits when there is absolutely no proof.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What's the cost for a replacement transmission on an Accord or Camry? Come on - you should know this one. You are/were a dealer, after all. Oh, that's right. it's over $3500!
A clutch is $150 plus 3-4 hours labor. $600 is a common price for a clutch job. That's less than 1/5th of the price of the automatic. In fact, the price difference between the manual and the automatic pays for 1-2 clutch jobs alone. Based upon real world averages, a clutch will last about half to a third as long as a typical automatic. By 150K, virtually all automatics are on their last legs. 200K is rare. Most manuals will last 300-400K miles before the actual gears need to be replaced. (typically $1200-$1600 for a whole new manual - not rebuilt)
I also know that most people weren't affected.
Very unusual for Honda and they certainly paid the price to replace them.
I have had a couple of them rebuilt in cars I have owned.
When I had the clutch replaced in the RX-7 we owned about ten years ago, it was about an 800.00 job.
The post that was made said that dealers try to push automatics because they make more profit and they make more money later if repairs are needed.
I'm still shaking my head over that one!
2 - If a typical automatic is, say, $1200 extra over the manual, about $900-$1000 of that is dealer cost. They do make a few hundred profit on the transmission option. On a less expensive car that they make maybe $300 on, and extra 100-200 in profit for the same car with an automatic is good to have.
3 - They get a lot more money for repairing an automatic, because it doesn't cost *them* $3500 for the parts. The profit margin on an automatic is quite large.
The real reason they only order automatics is that they are lazy and don't want to do any more work than they have to - either to sell it or to fix it, because a clutch actually takes 3-4 hours to swap and set up correctly. I've seen mechanics drop an automatic and replace it in under 30 minutes. They might bill you book rate of several hours, but it's really a 30 minute job most of the time, because they don't actually rebuild anything themselves.
That's quite a statement, and definitely not true.
The major cost difference is..............TALENT.
What do you think happens with that automatic transmission the "non-talent" replaced with a rebuilt.
More profit in the non-talent dealer's pocket..!
I do appreciate the laugh on a cold snowy day!
He seems to have all of the answers in a tidy bundle!
There are other things beside clutches that can fail in an automatic transmission.
A modern automatic is very complex and difficult to work on compared to a Powerglide of the 1950's. Because of this, most shops don't rebuild them anymore. They will choose to install a remanufactured unit instead.
The independant transmission shops are the exception and ther seem to be fewer and few of these. It takes constant schooling and training to keep up with the changes these days and the tools and equipment costs can be staggering.
But, modern transmissions are MUCH more robust than in the "old days" when an overhaul at 70,000 miles was pretty muc the norm.
It's usually a bearing or a syncro that fails in a manual although I once had a chipped cluster gear in an old Chevy I had. Probably the result of abuse by the person who had it before I did.
But we are starting to see more and more speeds in the automatics. I think at first it made sense because the more gears, the more times you can optimize that perfect RPM and car speed for the speeds and loads we do. In my mind, there is an optimum number. I think there is an ideal number of gears for the speeds we do on average here in North America and with the 2 to 3 litre sized engines that are in use for 3200 to 3800 pound cars, that ideal number is either 5 or 6. More than 6 then transmission is very busy not being in any one gear most of the time and might as well be a fullon CVT with stepped paddle positions to optimize it as best you can when you want more control. I think that is why a CVT is as fuel efficient as it is because there is basically no downtime being between shifts. So there must be an opportune number of gears for the speeds we do and the engine sizes that offsets having the engine at the perfect RPM range to the speed at any given time. Much more than 6 speeds and the benefit becomes more buried with wasted time spent between cogs and shifting busyness. But they keep offering more speeds and I think it has become a marketing ploy and consumers need to use their own head and recognize what that ideal limit is rather than let the car makers dictate to us. It would keep initial purchase costs lower and probably down the road costs lower too.
Since we already know that while a CVT hasn't much more personality than an electric golf cart in the way it moves you, we know it does have some economic gains for city use versus the manual, unless the manual is geared taller than they usually are and shifted just right all the time, but because there are such a broad range of users in that regard the CVT seems to always get the nod unless the engine is on the small side.
I see fads happening with our cars over the decades. Even odd colors like brown that were once popular in the 70's is making a comeback. This makes me wonder and even hope that maybe manual transmissions will also make a comeback because of the control that they afford a driver. Just think in 30 years, drivers might be so sick and tired of having everything under the sun done for them, that it might become a desirable novelty (if you like) to own a new car with an honest to goodness old fashioned stick shift transmission! And if that were to happen let's hope they don't go crazy with that concept and just leave it be with about 5 or 6 speeds.
Just thought I would tell you some of my thoughts on this. Hope it makes sense to some of you or do you think I'm out to lunch?
Sam
Darn right you can! And it bugs me to no end that automakers offer models with 6- and 7-speed automatics now, for which the manual option is a 5-speed. If the auto has 6 ratios, so should the manual! And I'm quite sure the reason is NOT the cost of developing a good 6-speed manual (and indeed a couple of companies have been very good about this, notably Nissan for one), but rather because they have mostly stopped further development of manual transmissions as they see no future in them. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy that will one day come true. It's infuriating. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My wife's car is a 6-speed automatic... last one was the same make, but with a 5-speed auto.. the 5-speed was better, in every way. (that might not be related to the number of gears, though).
I like shifting..... but, 5-speeds is plenty..
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Will it have a manual transmission offered? Probably not.
But I may put a deposit down on one now, just in case.
Seems logical that it will have more benefit in a big heavy box like that, and less in a lighter, more aerodynamic car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's perfect - 5th is like overdrive and I really didn't care for the shift pattern on the six speed I tested.
On my accord, I would like the 6th gear. 5th is just a tad too short for higher speed cruising (by about 70, I want 1 more gear to go into). Doesn't seem that car really needs to be turning 2900 RPM at 75 (something like that).
a Corvette though, that probably would be fine with a 4 speed, certainly 5 is more than enough.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Seems to me that if you can wind it up, shift into the next gear, and find yourself smack in the middle of the engine's power band, you probably don't need as many gears. A 6 speed manual in a 1970 Olds 442 W/455 engine would probably make it slower in a race. On the other hand, my tri-axle has 9 gears and could use another one between 8th and 9th ,since it's "sweet spot" is only a 3-400 rpm range. My daughter has a six speed in an F 250 which I think would be just as well off (and easier to shift)
with five . A Civic Si probably benefits from having six gears. Now that I've written this I see I'm basically echoing Stickguy's post......oh, well.