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http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=Pickups&f=0&t=2170
Thanks. Yes I have the SE fully loaded except, the bed extender. I was just seeing what you guys thought about it's suspension. I feel it's pretty good for offroad. Not trying to rehash the past discussion but, I don't however think that it is as tuned as the TRD or the ZR2. IMHO, if offroading is very important those two suspensions make the best. All the others seem to be less 'tuned' for offroading. If Toyota had the 4-door in March or if the S-10 was 4-door(and they refined their tranny)who knows? I love the tires that are on the Toyota. I'm not sure why my 4x4 has 65 series tires on it. The side walls are short, it hasn't been a problem in the sand yet.
All this talk about crash testing...I think the tests are marginal(because of the many variables in the real world). I can tell you without looking at the test(which I will do later) I feel alot safer in the Nissan than I did in my S-10. But cthompson21, unfortunately I have to tell you I fall into your category, I didn't even look at safety tests when considering my new truck. I guess I am subconsciously thinking about the myth of "being in a truck is safe period"
You better be careful bringing up Nissan on here, Vince8 might be mad, I think he feels threaten by Nissan
Speaking of safety though, I just saw another report on the Firestone Wilderness tires on World News Tonight. There was another roll-over Explorer accident in Florida today caused by tread separation. They talked to a Lawyer that has settled many of the cases and he said that part of the settlement was that he couldn't talk about the cases. He did pretty much give away though that tests show there is a problem and that Ford is covering it up by settling out of court with the hush clause. Unfortunately, the Rangers came with those tires too in Calif. so I have to decide whether to buy new tires that I don't really need for my wife's truck or not. Ford is really demonstrating leadership in safety by covering up over thirty accidents, most with fatalities, so far. I wonder if the tires contributed to the death rate figures on the Ranger?
As for your new topic, sounds good. We've rehashed the same stuff here too often.
I've never liked the Firestones on my truck. They are definately not a good tire. I just heard on the news tonight that Sears pulled them off the shelves. It looks like I might be ordering some new tires from the tire rack soon...
At least Ford put good tires on my SVTour, BFG G-Force T/A KDW's. They're one helluva tire (and freaking expensive too around $150 a pop).
Ford,
General Motors,
Toyota,
Nissan
and Suburu
SUVs and pickups.
But most accidents reported to the federal government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have involved the Ford Explorer, the industry's top-selling SUV.
Officials at Bridgestone/Firestone earlier this week defended the tires, saying properly inflated and maintained ATX, ATX II and Wilderness tires are "among the safest tires on the road."
Longtime Firestone-Ford link
Japan's Bridgestone Corp. bought U.S. tire maker Firestone in 1988. But the Ford-Firestone link goes back almost 100 years, when Henry Ford chose Harvey Firestone to supply tires for America's first mass-produced automobiles.
Good or bad your opinions are valued here.
SURE I will sell you my old Firestones, nothing but the best for a Tacoma!
"Hey, that truck looks like vince's. . ."
Speaking of stuck trucks, anyone here of the 2 Texans here in Colorado that went off the posted trail, found themselves in trundra, where they are not suppose to be, on a 70 degree sloped mountain?
New jeep and Dodge p/u are sitting there today, forest service says move em or we will, Amry helos say they are too heavy to haul out at 12,500 ft and the only helo capable is in Oregan, $9,000 and hour to rent.
Dim witted Texan's. . .
I can scan and post the story if anyone is intereste, what NOT to do when you go off-road.
BTW, what is "trundra"? Trouble? Tundra? Trouble + Tundra? :oD
I remember in Pagosa springs Colorado, there was a sign on the highway on the eastern entrance to town. It read:
"Texans go home".
Then I saw a sign on the west entrance of town that read:
"Californians go home".
Seriously, those guys have got EVERY and I do mean every 4 Wheel Driver group in Colo. totaly behind the Forest service.
I will scan that article and see if it comes out.
Post it tonight.
I say torch the vehicles, make the owners watch.
Well when you drive right by a sign, "No motor vehicles beyond this point" there is no sympathy if you do.
http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/texjerk2.jpg
I will keep them up for a week or so, they are large files so cannot keep forever.
http://members.aol.com/uncchrisb/txjerk2.jpg
That like explains it.
Hey, them BF Goodrich TA KO's reeeeeally hold!
Saftey is a factor for people when they buy a vehicle. Most sites do rate the RAnger better in crash tests than its competition.
I would rather walk than get pulled out by a Nissan! Heck a Nissan could'nt make it where I go its V6 is too weak! Much less pull me out LOL. I'd rather be pulled out by a Tacoma! Yikes! I can't believe I just typed that...
Ford motor company had a lawsuit filed against it for putting faulty tires on Ford Explorers and Rangers, which are believed to be responsible for 49 deaths.
looks like firetone is taking the responsibility.
toyota's also come with the wilderness line as well so it not just ford...
Turns out the trucks wound up on private property (an old mining claim) and the BLM was able to step away from the mess.
The Texans apparently "misread" their map, and then apparently threw common sense out the window.
There's a lesson here for all off-roaders: It may not be wise to go where no man has gone before.
In that area I encountered a guy carrying his fixed flat tire back to his truck (he had TWO flats). I offered him a ride back to his vehicle, but after a mile or so on an easy road, I saw the trail he had gone up (by himself). I had to decline my offer. It was one of the worst trails I have ever seen. Steep and FULL of sharp rocks. Not even on the map. My wife and I were alone and I had no desire to copy his problems. He only had about 1/2 mile left to go when I chickened out. It would have been a very long hike back to Silverton.
Those Texans are 1) truly lucky to be alive and 2) thankful there are some good samaritans out there.
"The tires have been original equipment on Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru vehicles for several years"
As far as your "safe tacoma"... Well, I'm not gonna go there again. You can read back on the links yourself.
i believe the Tacoma w/o the 31" tires come with wilderness AT's as well.
Also like to point out the recall is only one the p235/75 R15 tires are being recalled.. So the larger ones found on "offroad" rangers and smaller ones found on XL models were not effected.
I will try to find a link
"The recall covers size P235/75R15 in all the ATX, ATXII and some Wilderness AT tires that are currently in use on some of the nation's most popular SUVs. The tires have been original equipment on Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru vehicles for several years, but most accidents reported to traffic safety officials have involved the best selling Ford Explorer. An estimated 60-to-70 percent of the recalled tires are on the Explorer and its twin Mercury Mountaineer models."
60-70% ford products... wonder what percentage were on toyotas???
Point being, its a Firestone Issue, not a ford issue. Also most users in this forum admit the firestones were junk anyway.
Wish it was still there as it REALLY showed why there is a significant difference between an east coast mountains and a Colorado mountain.
12,500 ft, no trees to winch to, just rocks, air thin as the moon and man was that steep. As we know, pictures do not show how bad it really was, but man did it look bad.
As I understand it, they went to Silverton, rented a Jeep, bought out all the chains/straps available and were trying to do it themselves. They had stopped where they were because they were traversing the side of the mountain and were slipping sideways while trying to go forward.
Anyway, I think it was the forest service guy, whipped up with his Hummer, and winched them out. He accepted no money for the job.
Now THAT is the Colorado spirit!
Don't be so brand-blind that you can't see what's happening here. It's the exact same reason Ford didn't do so either.
Money. Plain and simple.
No car manufacturer really gives two hoots about their customers. They only care that their cars are selling well and their costs (COGS, lawsuits, etc...) are down.
Do you really think that Toyota (or any of the other manufacturers) puts your best interests in mind when building their vehicles? If they did, we'd all be driving super-safe, super-efficient, and super-reliable vehicles. Unfortunately, they don't, so we aren't.
48 fatalities due to cehap tires on Explorers? This is an OUTRAGE!!!
My heart and thoughts go out to those poor families who lost loved ones because a company took the cheap way out. Kind of like firing Amercian workers on Christmas and then moving plants to mexico and Canada so they can save a buck........
What does that one star mean? Something like a 40% chance of a fatality in a crash exceeding 35mph?
Feel free to try and reason it away. It's still gonna be there.
I'm not defending Ford. What would you have them do? Should they call in every vehicle they've made if a part fails and causes a crash?
or
the FIRESTONE room
or
the American business it bad and is only after the almighty buck and s***w the consumer room.
The facts are to this moment:
1. The problem is on the 235 75 R15 tires only. The tires effected are the ATX series and
ONLY
Wilderness At's in an Ill. plant (Hmmm where does spoog live?) and again, ONLY the 235 size tires. There is a code in the tire that tells if it is from that plant.
Also, have seen NO reports of RANGERS (remember what the topic is?) having tire failure fatalities. But Ford does install those tires on Rangers.
If anyone wants to vent spleen, vent it on Firestone for recalling these tires in foreign countries and not in the USA. THAT is bad but in no way a Ford issue.
Such loss of profit has to take a bite out of something in the process.
Maybe the flimsy bumpers and/or the fact they made a management decision to move to Fremont to assemble the truck due to cheaper and I believe, non-union labor.