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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Oh, maybe there were rented out as more desirable cars to drive.
I have seen some Chrysler products with rental stickers on them driving in the area near the airport... I'll do a drive thru at the airport outlots to see what the major rentals have sitting in their lots.
Gimme a break on the rental car stuff.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Loren
Why is it a negative thing for manufacturers to sell to rental fleets, or to other businesses? Don't they make a profit from it?
If not, then why don't they charge more to the rental companies for their cars. It doesn't matter to me if the car I'm driving is being used at every rental lot out there. Sure it affects residuals, but I keep my car long enough that depreciation isn't an issue.
-Loren
As far as people telling other what to buy, or their choice is totally wrong, it is obviously a ridiculous stand to take. If I want to buy a Crown Vic, I know that it is a police car, and a taxi car, and it has an old chassis. Maybe I want to buy an old body on frame car, or like RWD cars for a low price. The way I look at it sharing opinions is great, but when it comes to a purchase, it is my money. If I want say a '04 Mustang instead of the '07, I don't have to justify my decision, as I know why it is best for me.
-Loren
the simple answer is that they can't - they are in effect forced to build to build cars as a function of keeping plants open and UAW members happy (a situation Ford is trying to 'buy' its way out of). So, overproduction is the issue because they can't seem to find enough real buyers and must get rid of the inventory somehow. Hyundai's approach is different, however, they don't seem to be too concerned much about profit/loss only market penetration - and it seems to be working.
Maybe if enough car companies reduce or eliminate fleet sales, the remaining suppliers will be able to charge more for their cars. Which will bring the hold-outs back into the fleet sales market. Which will reduce prices of the fleet cars again... :confuse:
Sure, I do not disagree with that. If I did I'd have a problem with my wife, who bought a Jetta .
Sonata may well still be a bit cheaper than the Fusion, but my impression is they are a lot closer in price than the Accord and the Fusion are.
Maybe the 08 Accord will incorporate aromatherapy into their offering.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But I think the pointless argruments are from people making broad judgements about a car or an entire manufacturer, or passing judgement on styling and looks, which is completely subjective. Even seat comfort, for example, has some objective merits because if a few people comment about the uncomfortable seats in CarX, then other folks can more closely pay attention to the seats during their test drives. So it's good to point out the less than obvious differences in cars.
But the comments on style and the over-generalizations are worthless.
Whether or not disparity is larger or not, I don't really care (you may certainly be correct, I can't prove you wrong and won't try to do so because you have been so respectful). I know you weren't the one arguing the fact, so I'm really not directing this at you particularly, jeffyscot. The issue I find fault with is the stand that, while scape paid more for a Fusion over a Sonata and it is ok because he liked the styling and handling of the Fusion, I paid more for an Accord over a Fusion because I liked the handling/ride compromise and the interior design and suddenly I'm "brainwashed", and can't see past brand image, and I have "wasted my money." You see why I have a problem with that, I presume... He/She has done the exact thing I have done, paid the price to get what I wanted, and didn't go immediately for the least expensive vehicle on the market (and I'm not calling any of them cheap, just not to my "liking" for reasons I've explained previously). I bought what I wanted, paid a fair price for it (around True Market Value), and am in the "living happily ever after" stage of purchasing my vehicle. Does that mean I wasted my money or was "blind" to image? Certainly not (again, jeffyscott, you weren't the one implying this, and I'm not directing this post AT you). I'm just further explaining my past statements.
That would be perception that 'Detroit' is now fighting.
And sure it is possible to rent anything, Corollas especially.
That would be perception that 'Detroit' is now fighting.
And sure it is possible to rent anything, Corollas especia
Sorry Cap have to disagree, I have now owned my Fusion for about 8 months. The first 3-4 months of ownership I can easily say on average of 4 people a week ask me how I like it and to take a peek. Even still, I get people asking about the Fusion..
If you were to load up a Fusion to be comparable to the loaded Accord/Camry, you would not have a Fusion. It would be called an MKZ, and would cost more than a loaded Accord/Camry.
Scape - why a pseudoname? To make it look like there are other Fusioners just like you?
CamCords owners don't need to resort to covert tactics.
I think it's because RWD costs more, adds weight, lowers fuel mileage, lowers power, and therefore makes competing in this segment very difficult. The midsize cars that do have RWD are, for the most part, luxury models.
The guys at this location, on Baseline Rd, didn't even know what a Sonata was, never mind that they didn't have any available to rent.
At 2:30pm on 3/17 we got clobbered by a DC while stopped in a traffic jam on I-10 in Chandler, pushed into the the vehicle ahead of us and spun into the median. Of course the Maxima was totaled. The nearest Enterprise location picked us up. They didn't have any Sonatas, but one guy thought he had heard of it. We got an underpowered '05 Malibu POS as replacement car, but we were glad to get it. Should have gone back to the original Enterprise to change cars again, but we were too messed up. Only drove around 200 miles in 9 days, which is nothing in that area, especially since our first golf trip on 3/17 was about 50 miles.
The Maxima did a great job in keeping us from serious injury, but the point I want to make is that there were no Sonata rentals available at two different Enterprise locations.
You would be surprised at how many people don't know what a Sonata is. An older guy I work with thought Hyundai and Honda were the same company, go figure. I think they were just shocked that you wanted a Sonata, instead of a Maxima :confuse:
https://www.alg.com/awards.aspx
A Fusion may be a value buy now, but it'll be like junk bonds when you trade it in someday.
-Loren
A Camry is just another knock off of the Bangle butt to the rear, and well I am not sure what it is up front -- something wrong of course. Overall, the Camry has been a pretty solid car over the years. If I saw one in the neighbors driveway, I would think, yet another practical appliance car buyer.
-Loren
I had an 06 Monte Carlo as a rental for 2 weeks, and it was not very well put together. The large heavy doors were already starting to be a problem at 15k miles (you had to put just the right amount of force behind closing the door, or it would not close, or bounce back out on you). The A/C controls are hard to reach (behind the shift lever). Smooth, but somewhat nervous ride quality.
Thank goodness Ford finally got the idea, and was able to implement it! That should help it as a company and a model line in a major way.
That's 2 of the 10 things that affect resale value. Other more important factors like reliability and market acceptance have a big impact of those values, and a Fusion will suffer the same plight as any other car with the Ford emblem on it. Just because it also says Fusion on the car will do little to change Ford's hideous resale value legacy.
The public perception of what is a good used (or new) car is also not likely to change - the 'Blue Oval' and, for that matter, the other "Detroit" brands not going to be high on anybody's list. For a reason. Indeed, they may all be wrong - the jury is still out on many of these cars - but rest assured, the buyer will be willing to pay more for a car made by somebody whose name ends in a vowel. There's about 25 years or so of history to support that claim.
Personally, I think it's scape too.
Now, let me ask you and everyone else to hear some important points akirby made yesterday in his post here, specifically:
This is all rather silly... We're all trying to justify our vehicle purchases to folks who bought a different vehicle, which leads to nothing but arguments.
and
I think it would be much more helpful to keep the discussion to the differences in features, prices and options rather than trying to prove that one car is better than another.
Some of us are going overboard in ridiculing others' choices. There are a lot of terrific choices in this sector, and we all have different needs and priorities. That's a good thing - otherwise things would be pretty dull if we all agree there was only one "correct" car!! :P
Listen to your fellow poster - he made some very wise statements.
The other change is more recent. Ford has publicly said they are cutting back production to match demand and will no longer be pursuing high percentages of rental fleet sales. New vehicles like the Fusion and Edge are being produced with modest sales targets. Ford is no longer chasing market share and is using buyouts to get rid of excess plant capacity whereas in the past they would have simply produced more vehicles and dumped them into rental fleets or put thousands of dollars on the hood to get rid of them.
This is a fundamental change at Ford which Fields and Mulally are pushing, along with more focus on the products themselves. The Fusion was new for 06, received AWD in 07 and should get a hybrid model in 08. It will also be completely redone for 09 (employees and media have already seen a preview). Quite a change for a company that let the Taurus wither on the vine for a decade.
This is why the comparisons to past Ford performance are not valid - it's not the same company. The Detroit Auto show should shed a lot of light on where the company is headed.
It'll take many years for Ford to get past hard feelings from the damage done by their previous clunkers. It'll happen one day, but I don't think a couple of years will turn the battleship around. In 5-7 years we'll know. If Ford's still humming along it'll mean they've turned the corner and can compete with the Asians.
Then I might be ready to reFord some day.