Attended the Oregon State fair 08-27-00. GM had an excellent display. They had a 2001 GMC HD 3500 extended cab dually diesel on display.
I was walking around the truck and didn't realize it was running until I got to the front of the truck. For a diesel it was super quiet. Oh! Did I mention the hood was open. When the hood is Closed you can't tell it was a diesel.
The factory rep. stated the mpg was best in class 23-26 mpg he was also pulling GM's display trailer cross country. Rep. stated trailer weighed approx. 15,000 lbs. and he had no problem with hills Rep. stated the worst hill was over by Helena, Montana. The truck slowed to 43 mph. Otherwise the truck can hold 50-55 mph on hills.
I never thought of rocks hitting the lights on the top of the truck. But I guess other things like sliding a canoe on the top could do the same thing. Oh well, just have to pay attention and be careful. But with how much money I'm paying for the rig, I better be careful with stuff like that anyway. I hope those lights do help getting people to turn their high beams down out on the highway. I always turn mine down earlier (can see the oncoming vehicles much earlier).
I'm retired and fish a lot. I want to put a truck camper on and be able to pull a 18-20ft boat for fishing. The camper dealer told me that I need a 9000+lbs. GVW to handle both. My 1500 4WD short bed won't do it. Should I go with a 2500 or a 3500 4WD and which engine? I will appreciate your input.
how heavy is your boat? if its light, as in 5K lbs or less, the base 6.0 will probably pull the boat, camper, and all gear pretty good. it would also get the best mileage, and would be the cheapest truck to buy.
if the boat is heavier, or you plan on having the truck weighted very heavy, go with the 8.1. It will have incredible pulling power, not great, but decent mileage, probably low teens. a little pricey though, especially with the Allison Tranny. it will be an awesome powertrain.
If you really want power and good gas mileage, go for the diesel w/Allison. monster combo, but very pricey...
Has been in the order system since mid May at a small dealer. Still no TPW.
Went for the base model, with 6.0L 5 speed and lots of options. With the GMS+3%, looking at $27,890 plus TTL if it ever gets built.
Ordered vinyl seats deep tinted glass power door locks AC Camper mirrors Rear locker Block heater Cruise Control Big air cleaner skid plate Stereo with cassette Camper wiring Chrome R bumper Trailer pkg Firm ride suspension.
Still no order TPW. Also, the fleet mgr with which I am dealing says the GM won't allow GMS+3% pricing..... So looks like I'm back to invoice +$500, around 28,500 + TTL.
Might place a almost idential order for a GMC 2500HD Sierra with another dealer in town (Buddy just started with them yesterday as the "fleet mgr"). Appears that the GMC comes with an Auto tranny no charge and you don't get a credit for ordering a NV4500 5 speed manual? Anybody know if this is true?
I just ordered 2500HD LT 4x4 ext.cab SB 8100/Allison W/most all of the options under the suppliers discount program.
The GMS (www.gmsupplierdiscount.com)program is at the dealers discresion. Don't let that dealer pull that on you. I had three chevy dealers say they chose "not to participate because they could sell all their allocations at THEIR PRICE". I found our local GMC dealer was willing and able to order under the program but I don't like the GMC grill design and found the fourth chevy dealer near by fully willing to order and DID.
Now I do expect it to take three months to be built even though the dealer thougt it would be much less
I found that the smaller dealers were the ones willing to honor the GMS program while the larger dealers that sold more PU's were sold out thru their March allocations and were not interested.
To compare if you don't mind what was your GM MSRP and GM INVOICE price compared to the GMS+3??
Let me tell you guys this process is quite a headache. Getting an allocation is the first big headache. My order was formated into the VOM(vehicle order management)system as soon as this could be done in mid May by my local dealer. The truck is a 2001 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab Short Box 4x4 SLT trim with the 6.0 V8. Then we sat with no allocation forever. I was calling every Tuesday ( as this is the day dealers get their allocated units) and no truck. Finally I started calling dealers from New Orleans to Jacksonville FL and up in Atlanta. What did I find ? very few allocations for crew cabs and usually only at very large dealers (Carl Black GMC Atlanta). I got to know some of these dealers quite well calling every Tuesday and got lucky on 7 August when a dealer in AL got allocated a crew cab and was able to configure it the way I wanted, I then got him to trade his allocation with my local FL dealer. So my order went in and was picked up by GM on 11 August 00 for a TPW(target production week) of 9/11 a week later this changed to 9/18 but that is where it has been ever since. Now I am standing by waiting and hoping all goes well. The thing about it is my local dealer still has not been allocated a crew cab only 3 extended cabs...so my getting the allocation swap was key.
fyi, gms price was about $1000 less than dealer invoice ~$27k vs ~28K. Add in 3% and you are back to about $200 less than invoice. I bought my last truck from the same dinky dealer for invoice +$500.
Yup, gonna start looking around.
Really like the sales guy I'm dealing with, at least until yesterday when he hit me with the bad news that his GM (General Manager) doesn't wanna participate with the supplier program on the HD trucks. Fortunately, I have no deposit with the order, so, I could just let the order ride..... while ordering an identical vehicle with somebody else.
I just got a call from my dealership. They informed me that I am number 21 on the list for a Duramax at Dave Smith Motors. I asked if that is the total number of orders ahead of me, or just those waiting for an allocation. Nice lady did not know. Now I just get to start calling every tuesday to get updates on ordering progress. With a dealership that large, I guess #21 may not be that bad.
I see in the Aug. 1st GM press release that the '01 3500's have optional twin tank for total of 50 gal.
If anyone figures out if that is on the 3500 SB's, we need to check how different the frames are and if we can retrofit the tank into the 2500HD SB's (4x4's) on our own somehow (Seeing as how GM keeps overlooking that little mistake).
If not, I'm going to have a tank fabricated to either go inplace of spare tire between the frame rails or in the box. Anyone already 'Been There, Done That'?????????
All the information I've seen says that the 3500 trucks are long box. The 26 gal tank would be on the short box. I don't know that there is enough room for another tank in the frame on a short bed truck. Your best bet may be a in the bed tank.
I recently shopped around and couldn't get a discount on ordering a new 2500hd 4x4. Finally I found a GMC dealer, that sold only trucks and got a discount of $5200 off MSRP. The Chevy is using the same ugly front end that they use on their tow trucks, so, at the urging of my 14 year old "you're not picking me up from school in that thing" daughter, we picked the less conspicuous, softer/nicer looking GMC. Colors this year are a dissapointment. The awsum metallic orange has brutal, halloween black trim. Gone is the unique meadow green replaced by "old man" green. Most the other colors are ruined by the black trim on the 4x4 models. A fantastic new feature is the optional front leather bench seat. You still keep the front buckets, they simply replace the "fixed" console with one that flips up into a big comfortable jump seat. Really cool. Looks outstanding in the new, softer leather. And it's $900 cheaper than just the buckets alone. Go figure. The new Allison auto transmission is the rage in the truck circles, and is now an option. Everyone swears this is "Da Kine" to buy. We'll see. We often drive/tow at the Colorado River where the Temps are 120+ around the clock. The Cheys/gmc trucks seem to hold up the best, have the best air conditioning, tow power and relative fuel consumption. Quality wise, I believe all the big three truck makers are about the same.
I couldn't agree more. At least they could PAINT those ugly wheel flairs to match the rest of the truck.
The wheel openings without the flairs (on the 1500's) have a well ENGINEERED look as though some thought was given to them in design and not STUCK ON AS AN AFTER THOUGHT. (Not to mention a place for all the salt and grime to build-up over time.) Some people like 'em and that's ok but not for me!!
My dealer has already agreed to take those things come off mine the moment it unloads from the carrier. Just hope they haven't left any scratches while the paint was curring.
Will also have to figure out the best way to carry more fuel onboard. Pull 5th wheel.
$5200 off looks like a great price on such a HOT truck!!
Gettin mine painted two - tone as soon as I get mine...My truck is black and they still come unpainted meaning they will be that dull plastic looking flare...
Getting jerked around on pricing for my Chevy 2500HD CC that has been in the system since May. Decided the hood looks too much like my old '89 F350.
Next door neighboor just started as the fleet guy at our GMC dealer. Gonna go down this week and get one on order with him. He will honor the GM supplier discount.....
I have been hearing about brochures out for the HDs, but local dealer does not have any yet. The GMC web page does not have 2001 as an option yet for the brochures. Anyone heard anything about GMCs or just Chevy brochures?
I just talked to my dealer and he informed me that they no longer have to have an allocation to order a presold truck. He said my order has been accepted and they're waiting on the TPW. Make any sense? WD
I called GMC last night and they said they won't have brochures ready for a few weeks. I don't know if they had some and ran out, or if GMC has not had them out yet.
So Tim, you still love your 2500? Now that you have had your truck a year, any problems. Suspension? Electrical? Rattles? Other? You sound pretty interested in one of the new HDs. Yours is a 2000, right?
mine is an early 2000 (aug99). 13 months...22K miles..been fine in every way.
It has the rough Prrr like idle that I guess all have?...I feel it could stay longer before the converter locks up...but I guess there is no adjustment?....oh well
no shakes..leaks..or other funny stuff 1/2 ton owners have had...it has the steering shaft rattle about once every 6 months or so?....but not enough to matter...and it has a rattle in teh passengers right wheel well....I say it's the plastic splash guards...they say they have put extra pins in..(didn't do..but charged GM)...and have tightened the antenna base..(another scam for GM)....
mechanical has been A-OK....tires have been rotated 3-4 times...and still on original wheel weights (I may balance them soon)
I will be getting a 2002 HD SB...don't know if Crew cab or Ex.cab yet....as I have said...I haul more stuff than people and a crew cab has less floor space...we will see if the CC seats flip or fold?....I doubt it
I may keep the next one for 4-7 years and buy other things....you know...things you have to have or else you will die!...(LOL)...aka stuff..
Anyone know what GM's "GMO" program requirements are?
The local GMC dealer mentioned "GMO" when I was looking at using the "GMS+3%" program for the new 2500HD. He indicated the GMO price would be within a "few dollars" of the "GMS+3%" and didn't want to mess with the GMS 1753 form.
The "GMS" & "GMS Suppliers Discount" program is very clearly defined on GM's www.gmsupplierdiscount.com WEB page. ----("GMS"-the actual price the dealer and a GM employee pays for the vehicle while the "Suppliers Discount" adds 3% for anyone who works for a company that does business with GM)--(Note-not just a supplier of something that ships as part of a vehicle)---- -(Looks like GM's intent with the program is to allow the 3% Holdback plus end of year Dealer sales volume Incentive/Bonus as Dealer Profit Margin)-
Both programs basically seem to bring your price up to (with in a few dollars according to one dealer) the normally published "Dealer Invoice" price that you can get from your GM dealer when he prints out the MSRP-if you ask for it- or from Edmunds or others.
It looks like one advantage of "GMS+3%" program is the price is absolutely set by General Motors and you don't have go thru any pain or hassle to get at least to the INVOICE price. Also it does not add the infamous "Advertising Fee" that amounted to around $300.00 on the Silverado/Sierra. ---(The dealer can choose not to participate in this program and in my case three big SILVERADO dealers would not because they could sell the 2500HD's at well above invoice - or at least to their usual 'Lay downs')---
ANY BETTER PROGRAMS OUT THERE THAT GETS YOU DOWN INTO THE 3% PAYBACK PRICE?
It's been a long decision making process for me. Last year at this time I was about to get one like yours (was trying to decide between the Ram/Cummins and Sierra 2500 w/6.0), but GMs poor production volume on 2500s and the news that the Duramax/Allison would be available this fall cooled my jets. I have been following your updates, and it sounds like GM got their act together with the 2500s.
I know about needing to get stuff. I did a pretty good job of getting what I thought I might need before getting married (2 years now). Otherwise I am sure I would not have all the shotguns, flyrods, and other goodies that I NEED to keep a big smile on my face.
It's not about materialism, it's about what we get to do with the goodies. I am grinning more and more now that I have my 2001 Sierra 2500HD w/Duramax&Allison on order and bird hunting is just around the corner (dove & grouse already started!).
My wife will be the one to suffer though for the next ?? months as she has to hear me say over and over, "I WANT MY TRUCK!". Oh well, she has had to go through that kind of thing before.
Ready for hunting season? Better start working on your aim.
GMO is for employees and family...(it got me about $1700 under invoice)
Gregg,
aim?..Mine is always on...every year...one shot...one kill....(or 5 shots..5 kills) ..you wife had to listen to taht too?..LOL
4x4
I figured it would fold flat...but the base,seat,and back of seat all folded would leave less room from roof to where the "flat" would be than an ex.cab.
I need the depth of a crew cab...but with a flip up seat!....I really wish the rear seat had a quick dis-connect...I have thought about yanking it out and leaving it out....but every once in a while.....
A Lid is the answer....but I hate the looks of them...and they are useless for bigger (taller) boxes and getting loads of dirt.gravel/etc...
as soon as a new CC is on teh lot..i wanna see inside!
of bringing a lot of derision on myself after the light hearted verbal bantering I have had with various people here - I am considering buying a GM!!
Rapidly increasing dog and sled stock means that I am looking at a big truck - Dodge doesn't currently offer a true crew cab, Ford does, but, well, enough said.
I have seen the specs of the new 3500 Crew cab and am going to be sorely tempted when it finally hits the showrooms here. Probably looking at the 8.1L V8 - I think that the economics are going to be better than the Diesel, but we'll have to see what the Canadian pricing looks like.
I read about the ability to create a flat surface in the back by folding the seats, but like Tim I have the concern about the height of the 'floor' that would be created. Given that I am only ever going to have dogs back there I will probably end up removing the seats entirely (I assume that there is a flat floor).
From what I have seen of the new HDs they are a great looking truck and certainly able to meet my needs - personal preference leans me towards GMC rather than bowtie, but who knows.
Is GM offering airbags in their 2500 & 3500 Crew Cabs this year? They never offered them before, even as an option, because federal regulations didn't require them.
Apparently you haven't riden far in a New Ford SD Crew Cab (Y2K or Y2K1). Your dogs would never want to get out.... I'm really looking forward to this new GM product, because I want to see if it has the room. Ford has 45 inches of leg room in the back seat, compared to GM's 38, 7 inches is alot of room. Heck thats another dog you can stuff in there, but then again if you got a gM product, it's lower to the ground....maybe it's best you do trade the dodge in for a gm product.
of dogs somehow. Truck will probably be capped and I will probably fo some kind of sectioning to get more dogs in the bed. Sleds can then be either towed or attached to a cap mounted roof rack.
BTW the airbags are standard - and passenger side can be turned off.
The front / rear leg room is listed as 41.3 / 39.1 - the specs for the heavy duty are availabe as a pdf file from GM's media site:
Edmund's review of the 2001 2500HD/3500 Series Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra is now available. Here's the direct link to First Drive: 2001 Chevrolet and GMC Sierra, by John M. Clor. What do you think?
Welcome aboard, I'm also upgrading from a Dakota to GMC Sierra 2500 HD SLT ext. cab 4wd duramax/allison. Why do you want the 1-ton? Just for the Canadian tax incentive? Doesn't sound like you need the dually otherwise. Man, if I had to pay Canadian gas prices, I would for sure go with the diesel. I guess Dodge better get with it and offer a crew soon if they are losing Andy Jordan!
It said that there should be more working room under the hood on the Duramax than on the Powerstroke or Cummins. I thought that was supposed to be one shortcoming of the D-max. The artical said that the D-max was shorter and narrower thant the competition, but I thought the engine compartment was smaller. Anyone know anymore about this?
I'll show my ignorance (especially since I have one on order), but what is bolt-on PTO?
It is a side unit that bolts onto the transmission that you can use to drive some kind of accesories. You put the truck in park, turn on the PTO switch, and it kicks the side unit in gear and uses engine power to drive whatever acessory you hook up to it. Hydraulic pumps are pretty common because you can route and use hydraulic power pretty easily for a lot of different functions. you can run a generator, or air compressor, or stuff like that, using the truck engine.
Thanks, sounds pretty cool. I like the idea of being able to use as a generator or compressor, especially when camping. Now, Kcram often talks about not wanting to leave the Cummins idling, (which seems kinda funny 'cause all the big rigs and buses seem to leave their diesels idling forever). What do you think we should do with the D-max. What about when starting on cold mornings?
is a dang nice truck, just too long to fit into my garage.
My best buddy has one with 45k miles, v10 CC. He'd probably go the new GM HD if he was buying this year, but the SD was definately the best option back in 1999.
And I would still only buy the Cummins if I were going diesel.
greg Idling for long periods is not good for any engine, gas or diesel. Big rigs do it cuz it keeps there AC running while they're sleeping, or sometimes they have power going to the trailer.
Also, sometimes they don't keep up with batteries starters, and alternators too well since they are driving always, and they don't want to be doing a lot of starting...
It seems like Ford is making their vehicles HUGE just for the the sake of being HUGE, not necessarily for utility. I use the awkward Superduty and the Excursion for examples. I rode in a Superduty CrewCab the other day for the first time. The inside was HUGE, and I will admit the truck was very nice (as are all the new pickups), but it did not seem any wider than the GM. I know both have plenty of leg room, and I think the GM extended cab has more in the back seat. Sure the Superduty has more headroom, but I don't care if there are 6" or 3' of headroom over my head (I am 6'), what's the point? So you have to use a platform under your camper to fit it on the truck? That's convenient. And the forward/side vision from inside is way worse than the GM and Dodge offerings.
And the Excursion is HUGE, but what significant advantage does its overall size offer over the new Suburban/Yukon XL? GM was able to redesign and offer more interior room/payload while shrinking the overall size. That Ford behemoth just makes maneuvering and parking even more unpleasant.
I like GMs philosophy, and I have only owned Ford and Dodge trucks until now. I would rather have all the interior room/payload/power/utility I can get while having a vehicle feel more maneuverable and maximizing vision. Like GM, I bet Dodge's next truck will continue with their "Cab-forward" thinking, trying to maximize utility while maximizing vision and maneuverability. I guess if you never take your truck off the ranch or interstate, the Ford is fine, but I think their design philosophy leaves something to be desired for the rest of us who use our vehicles on the highway, country, as well as the occasional trip to the city to make our wives happy.
And as for the diesel. Up till a year ago, I had the same opinion that the Cummins was the ONLY way to go. Its COMBINATION of power, economy, longevity, and dependability can not be matched by the powerstroke, and the GM 6.5 was not even a consideration. But Isuzu has been making exceptional diesels for a long time (well known for great power:displacement ratio / economy / dependability, and their influence and the performance figures make the D-max very attractive.
I think the D-Max introduction will be like the first year the Cummins was used in the Dodge, engine had no real problems and unmatched performance. When you add the Allison to the D-max equation, as well as the Sierra/Silverado ride/interior layout/etc. --WE HAVE A WINNER!
I realize you should try not to idle more than necessary, I guess I was just wondering how seriously you should try to minimize it. Also, is there anything in particular about the design of the different engines that makes idling more or less damaging? If you have the PTO and want to run a generator to recharge your camper battery, or use the PTO for something else, is it a bad idea if you are going to let it idle for more than 5-10-30-?? minutes? Is it more damaging to stop and start your engine at the rest stop when you let your dog go pee than let it idle for 5 minutes? Is it more damaging to let your engine warm up for 5 minutes in the morning than taking off with a cold engine?
I am looking at the 1 ton for a number of reasons - firstly I do want the hauling ability - you wouldn't believe what a weight pull dog can pull (I have personally seen 5,500lbs) and all that concrete has to be carried by someone. The extra towing capacity is also likely to come in handy.
I also do some fairly serious off roading to get to some of these sledding events and I personally prefer a dually for this - no hard scientific evidence that it is better, but I have always felt more secure when driving one (though this has only ever been occasional - I've never owned one).
The Diesel is tempting for the fuel economy, but the extra cost will pay for a lot of gas - I don't know where the break even point is in terms of mileage, but I'm guessing it is higher than I will be going before moving on.
Of course being a Dodge guy there is always the Cummins appeal - though it sounds as though Cummins may not be around in Dodge much longer - if you own Detroit Diesel and are owned by MB why would you use a third brand of Diesel engine.
clairification. Apparently this GMC Dealer was simply willing to sell equal to the GMS+3 and made-up his own termonalgy rather than just saying he'd sell basicly at Invoice less the advertising fee.
Greg, 5 minutes is probably what I would say is the acceptable limit, although, after that, there isn't any real damage to todays new engines, but it is just a waste. Ask a diesel guy why he left his one ton diesel idling for the past 30 minutes in the driveway: "Cuz its a diesel!" I don't get it...must be some sort of macho-ness....
not sure if true, but I read on some bunny-hugger flyer that starting your car is equivalent (in gas use) to about 2 or 3 minutes of idling.
Idle is the worst operating condition of the engine. Cool Air and water flow are at their absolute lowest. Engine oil flow is at its lowest. Intake air is at its lowest. Cylinder combustion temps are at their lowest. All these are adverse conditions. Older engines would have more probs because after long periods of idling, the cylinder temp would drop much less than designed...fuel does not burn probably. You then get a lot of unburned hydrocarbons: SOOT. And soot, basically, is abrasive and damaging.
lucky for us, computer technology monitors engines exhaust at all times and adjusts the AF ratio accordingly, so its pretty much a non issue now. But if you ever notice one of those truckers when they finally take off after a couple of hours of idling, you notice their truck will black smoke BAD for about the first 1/2 mile they drive....they're burning out all the pollutants that have collected in the system as it heats up.
When you are using the PTO, the engine will not be at idle, becuz the PTO requires much more than Idle horsepower to do any real tasks, ie generator, aircompressors, hydraulic pump for crane operation, etc.
Usually the truck is in Nuetral when the PTO is engaged and the throttle is locked at a set rpm. I don't know how GM or Ford set up their PTO systems, but you can either step on the gas and pull a lever to lock the throttle at a certain rpm, or just push a button or lever that holds the engine at a set rpm everytime.
So the engine is operating at a designed level of power, lubrication, and cooling...
Comments
excellent display. They had a 2001 GMC HD 3500
extended cab dually diesel on display.
I was walking around the truck and didn't realize
it was running until I got to the front of the
truck. For a diesel it was super quiet. Oh! Did I
mention the hood was open. When the hood is
Closed you can't tell it was a diesel.
The factory rep. stated the mpg was best in class
23-26 mpg he was also pulling GM's display trailer
cross country. Rep. stated trailer weighed approx.
15,000 lbs. and he had no problem with hills Rep.
stated the worst hill was over by
Helena, Montana. The truck slowed to 43 mph.
Otherwise the truck can hold 50-55 mph on hills.
how heavy is your boat? if its light, as in 5K lbs or less, the base 6.0 will probably pull the boat, camper, and all gear pretty good. it would also get the best mileage, and would be the cheapest truck to buy.
if the boat is heavier, or you plan on having the truck weighted very heavy, go with the 8.1. It will have incredible pulling power, not great, but decent mileage, probably low teens. a little pricey though, especially with the Allison Tranny. it will be an awesome powertrain.
If you really want power and good gas mileage, go for the diesel w/Allison. monster combo, but very pricey...
Went for the base model, with 6.0L 5 speed and lots of options. With the GMS+3%, looking at $27,890 plus TTL if it ever gets built.
Ordered
vinyl seats
deep tinted glass
power door locks
AC
Camper mirrors
Rear locker
Block heater
Cruise Control
Big air cleaner
skid plate
Stereo with cassette
Camper wiring
Chrome R bumper
Trailer pkg
Firm ride suspension.
Can't wait!
WD
Might place a almost idential order for a GMC 2500HD Sierra with another dealer in town (Buddy just started with them yesterday as the "fleet mgr"). Appears that the GMC comes with an Auto tranny no charge and you don't get a credit for ordering a NV4500 5 speed manual? Anybody know if this is true?
The GMS (www.gmsupplierdiscount.com)program is at the dealers discresion. Don't let that dealer pull that on you. I had three chevy dealers say they chose "not to participate because they could sell all their allocations at THEIR PRICE". I found our local GMC dealer was willing and able to order under the program but I don't like the GMC grill design and found the fourth chevy dealer near by fully willing to order and DID.
Now I do expect it to take three months to be built even though the dealer thougt it would be much less
I found that the smaller dealers were the ones willing to honor the GMS program while the larger dealers that sold more PU's were sold out thru their March allocations and were not interested.
To compare if you don't mind what was your GM MSRP and GM INVOICE price compared to the GMS+3??
75V111 / Iowa
Yup, gonna start looking around.
Really like the sales guy I'm dealing with, at least until yesterday when he hit me with the bad news that his GM (General Manager) doesn't wanna participate with the supplier program on the HD trucks. Fortunately, I have no deposit with the order, so, I could just let the order ride..... while ordering an identical vehicle with somebody else.
If anyone figures out if that is on the 3500 SB's, we need to check how different the frames are and if we can retrofit the tank into the 2500HD SB's (4x4's) on our own somehow (Seeing as how GM keeps overlooking that little mistake).
If not, I'm going to have a tank fabricated to either go inplace of spare tire between the frame rails or in the box. Anyone already 'Been There, Done That'?????????
75V
All the information I've seen says that the 3500 trucks are long box. The 26 gal tank would be on the short box. I don't know that there is enough room for another tank in the frame on a short bed truck. Your best bet may be a in the bed tank.
Richard Mc
Gone is the unique meadow green replaced by "old man" green. Most the other colors are ruined by the black trim on the 4x4 models. A fantastic new feature is the optional front leather bench seat. You still keep the front buckets, they simply replace the "fixed" console with one that flips up into a big comfortable jump seat. Really cool. Looks outstanding in the new, softer leather. And it's $900 cheaper than just the buckets alone. Go figure.
The new Allison auto transmission is the rage in the truck circles, and is now an option. Everyone swears this is "Da Kine" to buy. We'll see.
We often drive/tow at the Colorado River where the Temps are 120+ around the clock. The Cheys/gmc trucks seem to hold up the best, have the best air conditioning, tow power and relative fuel consumption. Quality wise, I believe all the big three truck makers are about the same.
The wheel openings without the flairs (on the 1500's) have a well ENGINEERED look as though some thought was given to them in design and not STUCK ON AS AN AFTER THOUGHT. (Not to mention a place for all the salt and grime to build-up over time.) Some people like 'em and that's ok but not for me!!
My dealer has already agreed to take those things come off mine the moment it unloads from the carrier. Just hope they haven't left any scratches while the paint was curring.
Will also have to figure out the best way to carry more fuel onboard. Pull 5th wheel.
$5200 off looks like a great price on such a HOT truck!!
75V
Next door neighboor just started as the fleet guy at our GMC dealer. Gonna go down this week and get one on order with him. He will honor the GM supplier discount.....
http://www.teleweb.net/mgdvhman/index.htm
- Tim
I don't know about GMC because, I have a Chevrolet ordered...
see ya later..
- Tim
Make any sense?
WD
So Tim, you still love your 2500? Now that you have had your truck a year, any problems. Suspension? Electrical? Rattles? Other? You sound pretty interested in one of the new HDs. Yours is a 2000, right?
It has the rough Prrr like idle that I guess all have?...I feel it could stay longer before the converter locks up...but I guess there is no adjustment?....oh well
no shakes..leaks..or other funny stuff 1/2 ton owners have had...it has the steering shaft rattle about once every 6 months or so?....but not enough to matter...and it has a rattle in teh passengers right wheel well....I say it's the plastic splash guards...they say they have put extra pins in..(didn't do..but charged GM)...and have tightened the antenna base..(another scam for GM)....
mechanical has been A-OK....tires have been rotated 3-4 times...and still on original wheel weights (I may balance them soon)
I will be getting a 2002 HD SB...don't know if Crew cab or Ex.cab yet....as I have said...I haul more stuff than people and a crew cab has less floor space...we will see if the CC seats flip or fold?....I doubt it
I may keep the next one for 4-7 years and buy other things....you know...things you have to have or else you will die!...(LOL)...aka stuff..
been great....I will never buy a 1500 again....
- Tim
The local GMC dealer mentioned "GMO" when I was looking at using the "GMS+3%" program for the new 2500HD. He indicated the GMO price would be within a "few dollars" of the "GMS+3%" and didn't want to mess with the GMS 1753 form.
The "GMS" & "GMS Suppliers Discount" program is very clearly defined on GM's www.gmsupplierdiscount.com WEB page.
----("GMS"-the actual price the dealer and a GM employee pays for the vehicle while the "Suppliers Discount" adds 3% for anyone who works for a company that does business with GM)--(Note-not just a supplier of something that ships as part of a vehicle)----
-(Looks like GM's intent with the program is to allow the 3% Holdback plus end of year Dealer sales volume Incentive/Bonus as Dealer Profit Margin)-
Both programs basically seem to bring your price up to (with in a few dollars according to one dealer) the normally published "Dealer Invoice" price that you can get from your GM dealer when he prints out the MSRP-if you ask for it- or from Edmunds or others.
It looks like one advantage of "GMS+3%" program is the price is absolutely set by General Motors and you don't have go thru any pain or hassle to get at least to the INVOICE price. Also it does not add the infamous "Advertising Fee" that amounted to around $300.00 on the Silverado/Sierra.
---(The dealer can choose not to participate in this program and in my case three big SILVERADO dealers would not because they could sell the 2500HD's at well above invoice - or at least to their usual 'Lay downs')---
ANY BETTER PROGRAMS OUT THERE THAT GETS YOU DOWN INTO THE 3% PAYBACK PRICE?
FLEET PRICING ETC.??
75V
It's been a long decision making process for me. Last year at this time I was about to get one like yours (was trying to decide between the Ram/Cummins and Sierra 2500 w/6.0), but GMs poor production volume on 2500s and the news that the Duramax/Allison would be available this fall cooled my jets. I have been following your updates, and it sounds like GM got their act together with the 2500s.
I know about needing to get stuff. I did a pretty good job of getting what I thought I might need before getting married (2 years now). Otherwise I am sure I would not have all the shotguns, flyrods, and other goodies that I NEED to keep a big smile on my face.
It's not about materialism, it's about what we get to do with the goodies. I am grinning more and more now that I have my 2001 Sierra 2500HD w/Duramax&Allison on order and bird hunting is just around the corner (dove & grouse already started!).
My wife will be the one to suffer though for the next ?? months as she has to hear me say over and over, "I WANT MY TRUCK!". Oh well, she has had to go through that kind of thing before.
Ready for hunting season? Better start working on your aim.
Gregg,
aim?..Mine is always on...every year...one shot...one kill....(or 5 shots..5 kills)
..you wife had to listen to taht too?..LOL
4x4
I figured it would fold flat...but the base,seat,and back of seat all folded would leave less room from roof to where the "flat" would be than an ex.cab.
I need the depth of a crew cab...but with a flip up seat!....I really wish the rear seat had a quick dis-connect...I have thought about yanking it out and leaving it out....but every once in a while.....
A Lid is the answer....but I hate the looks of them...and they are useless for bigger (taller) boxes and getting loads of dirt.gravel/etc...
as soon as a new CC is on teh lot..i wanna see inside!
Thanks for input
- Tim
Rapidly increasing dog and sled stock means that I am looking at a big truck - Dodge doesn't currently offer a true crew cab, Ford does, but, well, enough said.
I have seen the specs of the new 3500 Crew cab and am going to be sorely tempted when it finally hits the showrooms here. Probably looking at the 8.1L V8 - I think that the economics are going to be better than the Diesel, but we'll have to see what the Canadian pricing looks like.
I read about the ability to create a flat surface in the back by folding the seats, but like Tim I have the concern about the height of the 'floor' that would be created. Given that I am only ever going to have dogs back there I will probably end up removing the seats entirely (I assume that there is a flat floor).
From what I have seen of the new HDs they are a great looking truck and certainly able to meet my needs - personal preference leans me towards GMC rather than bowtie, but who knows.
- Tim
Have a Good Morning Gentlemen.......
BTW the airbags are standard - and passenger side can be turned off.
The front / rear leg room is listed as 41.3 / 39.1 - the specs for the heavy duty are availabe as a pdf file from GM's media site:
http://www.media.gm.com/gmc/pdf/sierrahd.pdf
Happy Motoring. ;-)
Pocahontas
Edmunds.com/Roving Host
Welcome aboard, I'm also upgrading from a Dakota to GMC Sierra 2500 HD SLT ext. cab 4wd duramax/allison. Why do you want the 1-ton? Just for the Canadian tax incentive? Doesn't sound like you need the dually otherwise. Man, if I had to pay Canadian gas prices, I would for sure go with the diesel. I guess Dodge better get with it and offer a crew soon if they are losing Andy Jordan!
Sounds like the Allison is even better than advertised. PTO bolt on. Grade braking and shift patterning. Wow.
I think that thing will be king.
they said the 8.1 gets 4% better than the 454. Not too bad considering the big power increase.
Duramax get 15-20% better mileage than the 6.5. I think that puts it in the 18-22 mpg range.
I'll show my ignorance (especially since I have one on order), but what is bolt-on PTO?
It is a side unit that bolts onto the transmission that you can use to drive some kind of accesories. You put the truck in park, turn on the PTO switch, and it kicks the side unit in gear and uses engine power to drive whatever acessory you hook up to it. Hydraulic pumps are pretty common because you can route and use hydraulic power pretty easily for a lot of different functions. you can run a generator, or air compressor, or stuff like that, using the truck engine.
See?
- Tim
My best buddy has one with 45k miles, v10 CC. He'd probably go the new GM HD if he was buying this year, but the SD was definately the best option back in 1999.
And I would still only buy the Cummins if I were going diesel.
Idling for long periods is not good for any engine, gas or diesel. Big rigs do it cuz it keeps there AC running while they're sleeping, or sometimes they have power going to the trailer.
Also, sometimes they don't keep up with batteries starters, and alternators too well since they are driving always, and they don't want to be doing a lot of starting...
And the Excursion is HUGE, but what significant advantage does its overall size offer over the new Suburban/Yukon XL? GM was able to redesign and offer more interior room/payload while shrinking the overall size. That Ford behemoth just makes maneuvering and parking even more unpleasant.
I like GMs philosophy, and I have only owned Ford and Dodge trucks until now. I would rather have all the interior room/payload/power/utility I can get while having a vehicle feel more maneuverable and maximizing vision. Like GM, I bet Dodge's next truck will continue with their "Cab-forward" thinking, trying to maximize utility while maximizing vision and maneuverability. I guess if you never take your truck off the ranch or interstate, the Ford is fine, but I think their design philosophy leaves something to be desired for the rest of us who use our vehicles on the highway, country, as well as the occasional trip to the city to make our wives happy.
And as for the diesel. Up till a year ago, I had the same opinion that the Cummins was the ONLY way to go. Its COMBINATION of power, economy, longevity, and dependability can not be matched by the powerstroke, and the GM 6.5 was not even a consideration. But Isuzu has been making exceptional diesels for a long time (well known for great power:displacement ratio / economy / dependability, and their influence and the performance figures make the D-max very attractive.
I think the D-Max introduction will be like the first year the Cummins was used in the Dodge, engine had no real problems and unmatched performance. When you add the Allison to the D-max equation, as well as the Sierra/Silverado ride/interior layout/etc.
--WE HAVE A WINNER!
I am looking at the 1 ton for a number of reasons - firstly I do want the hauling ability - you wouldn't believe what a weight pull dog can pull (I have personally seen 5,500lbs) and all that concrete has to be carried by someone. The extra towing capacity is also likely to come in handy.
I also do some fairly serious off roading to get to some of these sledding events and I personally prefer a dually for this - no hard scientific evidence that it is better, but I have always felt more secure when driving one (though this has only ever been occasional - I've never owned one).
The Diesel is tempting for the fuel economy, but the extra cost will pay for a lot of gas - I don't know where the break even point is in terms of mileage, but I'm guessing it is higher than I will be going before moving on.
Of course being a Dodge guy there is always the Cummins appeal - though it sounds as though Cummins may not be around in Dodge much longer - if you own Detroit Diesel and are owned by MB why would you use a third brand of Diesel engine.
Thanks
75v
5 minutes is probably what I would say is the acceptable limit, although, after that, there isn't any real damage to todays new engines, but it is just a waste. Ask a diesel guy why he left his one ton diesel idling for the past 30 minutes in the driveway: "Cuz its a diesel!" I don't get it...must be some sort of macho-ness....
not sure if true, but I read on some bunny-hugger flyer that starting your car is equivalent (in gas use) to about 2 or 3 minutes of idling.
Idle is the worst operating condition of the engine. Cool Air and water flow are at their absolute lowest. Engine oil flow is at its lowest. Intake air is at its lowest. Cylinder combustion temps are at their lowest. All these are adverse conditions. Older engines would have more probs because after long periods of idling, the cylinder temp would drop much less than designed...fuel does not burn probably. You then get a lot of unburned hydrocarbons: SOOT. And soot, basically, is abrasive and damaging.
lucky for us, computer technology monitors engines exhaust at all times and adjusts the AF ratio accordingly, so its pretty much a non issue now. But if you ever notice one of those truckers when they finally take off after a couple of hours of idling, you notice their truck will black smoke BAD for about the first 1/2 mile they drive....they're burning out all the pollutants that have collected in the system as it heats up.
Usually the truck is in Nuetral when the PTO is engaged and the throttle is locked at a set rpm. I don't know how GM or Ford set up their PTO systems, but you can either step on the gas and pull a lever to lock the throttle at a certain rpm, or just push a button or lever that holds the engine at a set rpm everytime.
So the engine is operating at a designed level of power, lubrication, and cooling...