I don't think the Elantra is mid-size either. This car is definitely in the small economy car class.
On paper the Altima has the most impressive I4.
As for the Passat, its 2.0t pulls like a strong V6. The Passat 2.0t is probably cross shopped against its V6 competitors. Like it or not, the Jetta is more likely to be cross shopped with the mid-size 4 cylinders.
Those people in the market for a Focus or Civic are probably not going to consider a Jetta. Perhaps the Jetta is in a class by itself, a premium small car.
Those people in the market for a Focus or Civic are probably not going to consider a Jetta. Perhaps the Jetta is in a class by itself, a premium small car.
Actually, a friend of mine just bought a slightly used Jetta, and was cross shopping 1-year old Jettas with new Civics and, interestingly, the Scion tC. He settled on the used Jetta. (He was coming from a 16 year old BMW that finally died). His Jetta is not a loaded model by any means, though. He just liked the "German-ness" of it versus the Japanese competitors.
The Altima is very impressive with its power and economy, although it only equals that of the Accord 5MT, rather than surpasses it. Any word on what a manual Altima delivers?
The Elantra should be left with the Civic, 3, and Sentra class of cars, just like the "full size" Sonata should compete with Accord and Camry instead of Buick Lucerne, Toyota Avalon, and Nissan Maxima.
If Honda made the Accord look like the TSX, no one would buy the Acura TL or TSX. The extra "style" of the Acuras, is what gets people to spend the extra $$$. If you want high style, you have to pay for it, unfortunately. I just didn't think the Style points were worth the extra $4-5k the Acura TL would have cost me. Everyone has their limit.
If Honda made the Accord look like the TSX, no one would buy the Acura TL or TSX. The extra "style" of the Acuras, is what gets people to spend the extra $$$. If you want high style, you have to pay for it, unfortunately. I just didn't think the Style points were worth the extra $4-5k the Acura TL would have cost me. Everyone has their limit.
Oh, believe me that i knew that; I can still "wish" though, can't I?
Altima has to do more than bring their A game. Its a mental game where people are afraid to choose the second best (in sales for instance). They want to make a safe choice. Until camry is unseated as #1 in sales, some will not overlook it for Altima. Face it, some of it is deserved. Nissan had some reliability issues and doesnt look all that appealing either.
The new 2007 Elantra is on the small side of midsize just like the original Altmima was before it started getting larger in the second and third generations. They also have the Sonata on the large side of midsize. The Accent is the real small car, but still bigger than b-class subcompacts like the Aveo. Hyundai size classes don't seem to line up perfectly with other car makers.
Mileage figures aside, you would notice Elantra is slotted in the midsize category, and the Sonata is classfied as a large car, per Envrionmental Protection Agency.
The extra "style" of the Acuras, is what gets people to spend the extra $$$.
You're simplifying this way too much. The TSX is more of a parallel car to a high end Accord. The TSX is the "athletic" accord. It's what Mazda 6 drivers wish the Accord drove like. It also offers some features not available on the Accord.
To say the TL is more expensive than an Accord because of styling is well, silly. The TL is a bargain in its class compared to other near luxury sedans.
Let me see, what would make the TL more expensive than an Accord? Hmmm...
Better handling Better engine/performance Better warranty Better stereo More features Higher quality interior/exterior
"Its a mental game where people are afraid to choose the second best (in sales for instance). They want to make a safe choice. Until camry is unseated as #1 in sales, some will not overlook it for Altima."
Give the consumer more credit than that. Sales of the Altima have gone up dramatically since its last redesign. If the new generation is yet another improvement, then its sales will get even better.
And would the Camry be #1 in sales if you took away its fleet sales? I was surprise to see it's up to 20% of total sales.
So do people buy a mid-sized car because of its length, or because of its interior room? I would guess it's more based on the car's interior room, unless people like having more car to fit into tight parking spaces (or maybe want to impress the neighbors by having a "big" car).
The 2007 Elantra has more interior space than several cars that we are talking about here as being "mid-sized". It has as much trunk space as some of these cars also, including the Accord. So it's competitive with this class in interior room, and it gives people who are looking for most "cubes" for the dollar and good fuel economy, but not blazing 0-60 performance (no V6 option), another alternative when looking for a "mid-sized" car. It will definitely be on my shopping list when I buy my next car, unless it doesn't fare well in crash tests.
It might weigh a few more pounds than the 2007 Elantra also. Still, I would not expect the Elantra to be very quick, but it is supposed to get high MPG for it's size, so that's fine. 130 hp should be quite adequte for highway merging and normal driving, just not sporty fast.
Give the consumer more credit than that. Sales of the Altima have gone up dramatically since its last redesign. If the new generation is yet another improvement, then its sales will get even better.
New gen is slowly growing on me. Looks like it might wind up taking some sales away from big brother Max.
but the field is going to get hot in couple years...
The way I see it....One year from now, buyers would have a good choice with 1. 2007 Nissan Altima 2. 2007 Toyota Camry 3. 2008 Honda Accord (hopefully fall 07) 4. 2007 Saturn Aura 5. 2007 Chrysler Sebring 6. 2008 Subaru Legacy?? 7. 2008 Chevy Malibu?? 8. 2007 VW Passat Did I miss out on any?
Anyways, its a good thing as I would be in the market in a year or two...
Assuming the 2007 Elantra doesn't weigh much more than the '06 (they are about the same length, but who knows), it should have competitive 0-60 performance in this class. For example:
130 hp should be quite adequte for highway merging and normal driving, just not sporty fast
Haha, nobody will ever call the acceleration sporty, but it is adequate 95% of the time. There are days (when I have a few passengers) that I wish it had 150-160 hp, especially when I'm facing an uphill onramp starting at only 15 MPH and have to be near 75 at the top!
BTW, my Accord weighs 2850 lbs, the Elantra 2650 lbs; I'd expect the upsized Elantra to weight at least what the new Civic weighs, at 2,750lbs. Not too much different (less than the weight of a passenger's difference). Decent most of the time? Yes. At the new class standard? We'll see. This may have been mentioned; does it have a 5-speed auto, or just a 4? That will make a lot of difference in acceleration, especially to a smaller engined car (like Civic and Elantra).
Yes. The key word though is "competitive." We're talking about a car that will list starting under $14k here. For that, I don't need the peppiest car on the block.
"If your only criteria are price, and interior space. I suppose the Elantra will do. Most of us want more pep, among other things."
If the new Elantra's interior volume puts it in the mid-size category, so be it. But if it "quacks" like an economy car, then it's still an economy car to me.
You're simplifying this way too much. The TSX is more of a parallel car to a high end Accord.
I see the TSX as a luxury edition of the 4cyl Accord. And the TL as a luxury edition of the V6 Accord. You get more style, options, and a little more performance for the extra $$$. And that's cool, if it's what you want.
If you have a V6 Accord the TSX is not really an upgrade. It's smaller, with a 4cyl engine.
Nissan has been suffering in sales and now have a product blitz that promises to get them back in the game- the 07 Maxima, 07 Sentra, and 07 Altima will probably do just that- unless they have some quality issues out of the blocks.
My heart says 07 Jetta, but my mind says stay with the safe Asians. But there is something about the handling of the Jetta, the controls, the philosophy of that car that screams European sports sedan. Even if it burns oil and needs nuisance repairs. But then again, I have a Volvo now, and every Asian/American car I have test driven just didn't have the "right stuff" for me.
Jetta is fine until you need to fit three in the back. Width is just not there... but thats okay if you dont need it. Europeans are different and I'd buy a v70 with rear facing third row seat for kids if it aint that expensive.
"If you have a V6 Accord the TSX is not really an upgrade. It's smaller, with a 4cyl engine."
That's why I said it's a parallel car. The TSX isn't a luxury edition of a 4 cylinder Accord, but a much sportier edition. As for the TL, it's sportier (sharper handling) AND more luxurious than an Accord. A more practical choice?, probably not.
The scenario of having a car loaded down 4 adults and having to climb a steep incline and also needing to be at 75MPH at the top of a hill where it joins the freeway is not a scenario that I have come upon. So what happens when in that case with all the majority of cars and trucks that are slower than Elantra? There are still lots of old and new cars, trucks and vans on the road that somehow manage to get on the freeway safely with slower acceleration. I never merge on the freeway at 75 MPH even on a normal flat or downhill freeway onramp.
It's the I "need" a V6 with 200+ HP just to get on a freeway onramp excuse when the reality is that people just like more power because it's fun to have. "I 'need' a Porsche/BMW etc because it handles so well that I would avoid all theses accidents that are caused by mediocre handling."
"Note that the Elantra is roomier than the Jetta. But you believe the Jetta competes in the mid-sized sedan class"
You picked up on that. Now I know you're paying attention to what I write.
I ask you this, which car is more of an economy car? My point on the Jetta is this: it only competes with economy cars in size only. In features, fit/finish, sophistication, quality and performance it's more comparable to mid-size cars.
The "roomy" Elantra I suspect will have more in common with economy cars in features, fit/finish, sophistication, quality and performance.
this is a tough one for me...maybe we should try to define what makes a car belong in the midsize category.
some thoughts... 1. size, interior and exterior. 2. quality of interior, engines, suspension, and choices of options needing to be better than compacts 3. engine choices 4. premium options like leather, nav, sat radio (this piece of criteria I'm not sure about...just cuz a car doesn't offer nav shouldn't automatically eliminate it f/ this class...just throwing it out there) 5. price (w/in a range of other midsize cars) - also not sure about this one either since there are already a wide range of prices in cars that we all agree with
anybody else with ideas as to how to define the Midsize Family Sedan?
basically, I'm thinking that midsize should lie between near luxury class and the economy class (not to be confused with the compact or subcompact class)- in other words, it's a category that is a bridge from one class to another. my sense is that the elantra should be in the econonmy class b/c of lack of engine choices, the quality and look of the interior, the price it sells for, and the number of options that are available f/ the factory.
There maybe some cross-shopping but the general consensus: Jetta competes with Elantra, and other compact in the class. Plus, I tend to think most consumers looking for an economy cars generally are on a budget.
"But then again, I have a Volvo now, and every Asian/American car I have test driven just didn't have the "right stuff" for me."
Have you tried a base Volvo S40? I deplore you to get the car that's "right" for you. You may or may not have reliability issues but one thing you can be sure of is the enjoyment of driving the car that's right for you day in and day out.
I think I would agree, the Jetta is in what class?? It fits right in between a Focus/Civic and an Accord/Fusion..?? I would call it an upscale small car maybe? midecono? :shades:
"The way I see it....One year from now, buyers would have a good choice with 1. 2007 Nissan Altima 2. 2007 Toyota Camry 3. 2008 Honda Accord (hopefully fall 07) 4. 2007 Saturn Aura 5. 2007 Chrysler Sebring 6. 2008 Subaru Legacy?? 7. 2008 Chevy Malibu?? 8. 2007 VW Passat Did I miss out on any?
Anyways, its a good thing as I would be in the market in a year or two...
I would say you missed.. Fusion/Milan G6, 6, Sonata..??? :shades:
"There maybe some cross-shopping but the generally consensus: Jetta competes with Elantra, and other compact in the class. Plus, I tend to think most consumers looking for an economy cars generally are on a budget"
Nope, that's not the general consensus. The Jetta does not compete with the Elantra. People tend not to cross shop $14K cars with $22-28K cars. You're right, consumers looking for an economy car are on a budget. That leaves out the Jetta, right?
Please do some more research on the Jetta. I think you'll come to a different conclusion if you do so.
I would concur. I don't believe the Jetta competes with the Elantra, as most buyers who are considering an Elantra wouldn't even look at the Jetta, and vice versa. I bought a 2006 Elantra GLS sedan last December, and never considered a Jetta, and this is from a person who's driven primarily European cars since 1968. Frankly, the exterior and interior fit and finish of the Elantra at $13,700 delivered, including tax, title, and license, is the equal to a number of past new European cars I've purchased - and, those were not British, French, or Italian in origin! After 9 months of ownership, not one single glitch anywhere. I must say I've been most plesantly surprised.
In my case, buying the Elantra was not a function of budget, or lack thereof, but rather discovering the most bang for the buck. For example, the fit and finish on the Elantra (on a direct A/B comparison on an adjacent dealer's lot) was superior to a 2005 Civic LX. After over 40 years of driving, I've learned that the only person I need to impress is myself.
I've done my research, when I was shopping for a car about a year ago.
Yes, I test drove the Jetta then; and by the way, I thought it was a good car overall. It just didn't meet my needs - among other shortfalls, the backseat was way too tight for my family.
Well, let's see. The EPA has already figured out how to define what a mid-sized sedan is. They do it by interior volume. I think that should be the primary criterion. I really don't care if a car is 175" long or 190" long, as long as it has a roomy interior. Actually, I do care. I prefer the shorter car for ease in parking and garaging.
But let's look at the other criteria you mentioned:
2. quality of interior, engines, suspension, and choices of options needing to be better than compacts
Quality of interior: have you seen the interior of the 2007 Elantra, even photos of it? It puts many higher-priced cars to shame, including Hyundai's own Sonata. According to C/D, the interior of the 2007 Elantra will "frighten" its Japanese competitors. It offers perforated/heated leather seating, tilt/telescope steering with cruise and audio controls on the wheel, tasteful blue gauges, metallic trim, etc.
Engines: I suppose there could be a rule that a "mid-sized sedan" has to offer an engine with more than 4 cylinders. But since every one of the mid-sized sedans mentioned at the top of the discussion is offered with a 4-cylinder engine, and those are generally the best sellers, I am not sure why we'd want to make that limitation.
Suspension: Not sure what you mean by that. Is a fully-independent suspension with front and rear rollbars good enough to qualify? Some compacts like the Corolla have a beam rear suspension, but many small cars have sophisticated suspensions, so I don't think that is a good criterion.
Choice of options: Ah, but which options? Nav? Several mid-sized sedans don't offer nav in all markets. Bluetooth? Ditto. (Anyway, you can get Bluetooth on some smaller cars.) Eight airbags? Only a few mid-sized family sedans offer those. Leather interior? Some compacts offer that too. How about standard ABS and stability control in all models? But that would eliminate almost ALL the mid-sized cars.
3. engine choices
Already covered in #2.
4. premium options like leather, nav, sat radio (this piece of criteria I'm not sure about...just cuz a car doesn't offer nav shouldn't automatically eliminate it f/ this class...just throwing it out there)
Again, already covered in #2. Good thing not having nav doesn't eliminate a car, because that would eliminate cars like the Fusion, Malibu, and Sonata. How about OnStar? Maybe every mid-sized car should have that safety and convenience feature (the General would like that rule).
5. price (w/in a range of other midsize cars) - also not sure about this one either since there are already a wide range of prices in cars that we all agree with
You are right, there's a wide range of prices. Should we eliminate cars like the Fusion, Malibu, Optima, and Sonata because they can be had for under $16k with rebates and some discounting? If it helps, a loaded 2007 Elantra Limited will be close to $19k, maybe even $20k. (The top-of-the-line 2006 Elantra tops $18k, and prices and equipment levels are going up.)
It occurred to me that you might be able to get an Impala SS or a hemi powered Charger for $28k. Well I'm sticking to my guns that there's not a $28k car that has more amenities than a $28K Jetta.
Comments
Camry XLE I4 5AT with VSC: MSRP $25,930, Edmunds TMV $24,865
Passat 2.0T 6AT: MSRP $25,605, Edmunds TMV $24,349
So I guess to be fair we should drop the Camry from this comparison also.
On paper the Altima has the most impressive I4.
As for the Passat, its 2.0t pulls like a strong V6. The Passat 2.0t is probably cross shopped against its V6 competitors. Like it or not, the Jetta is more likely to be cross shopped with the mid-size 4 cylinders.
Those people in the market for a Focus or Civic are probably not going to consider a Jetta. Perhaps the Jetta is in a class by itself, a premium small car.
Actually, a friend of mine just bought a slightly used Jetta, and was cross shopping 1-year old Jettas with new Civics and, interestingly, the Scion tC. He settled on the used Jetta. (He was coming from a 16 year old BMW that finally died). His Jetta is not a loaded model by any means, though. He just liked the "German-ness" of it versus the Japanese competitors.
The Altima is very impressive with its power and economy, although it only equals that of the Accord 5MT, rather than surpasses it. Any word on what a manual Altima delivers?
The Elantra should be left with the Civic, 3, and Sentra class of cars, just like the "full size" Sonata should compete with Accord and Camry instead of Buick Lucerne, Toyota Avalon, and Nissan Maxima.
If Honda made the Accord look like the TSX, no one would buy the Acura TL or TSX. The extra "style" of the Acuras, is what gets people to spend the extra $$$. If you want high style, you have to pay for it, unfortunately. I just didn't think the Style points were worth the extra $4-5k the Acura TL would have cost me. Everyone has their limit.
Oh, believe me that i knew that; I can still "wish" though, can't I?
Horsepower: 175 5600 RPM
Torque: 180 3900 RPM
EPA mpg: 26/34 (CVT)
2007 Camry 4 cyl.
Horsepower: 158 6000 RPM
Torque: 161 4000 RPM
EPA mpg: 24/33 (auto)
Altima has to do more than bring their A game. Its a mental game where people are afraid to choose the second best (in sales for instance). They want to make a safe choice. Until camry is unseated as #1 in sales, some will not overlook it for Altima. Face it, some of it is deserved. Nissan had some reliability issues and doesnt look all that appealing either.
Hyundai size classes don't seem to line up perfectly with other car makers.
While we're wishing, I'll wish my family car looked like a 911. I wish big.
2006 fuel economy leaders by class - http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2898/2006fueleconomy2ia.jpg
Mileage figures aside, you would notice Elantra is slotted in the midsize category, and the Sonata is classfied as a large car, per Envrionmental Protection Agency.
You're simplifying this way too much. The TSX is more of a parallel car to a high end Accord. The TSX is the "athletic" accord. It's what Mazda 6 drivers wish the Accord drove like. It also offers some features not available on the Accord.
To say the TL is more expensive than an Accord because of styling is well, silly. The TL is a bargain in its class compared to other near luxury sedans.
Let me see, what would make the TL more expensive than an Accord? Hmmm...
Better handling
Better engine/performance
Better warranty
Better stereo
More features
Higher quality interior/exterior
Give the consumer more credit than that. Sales of the Altima have gone up dramatically since its last redesign. If the new generation is yet another improvement, then its sales will get even better.
And would the Camry be #1 in sales if you took away its fleet sales? I was surprise to see it's up to 20% of total sales.
The 2007 Elantra has more interior space than several cars that we are talking about here as being "mid-sized". It has as much trunk space as some of these cars also, including the Accord. So it's competitive with this class in interior room, and it gives people who are looking for most "cubes" for the dollar and good fuel economy, but not blazing 0-60 performance (no V6 option), another alternative when looking for a "mid-sized" car. It will definitely be on my shopping list when I buy my next car, unless it doesn't fare well in crash tests.
Honda already makes the Accord look like a TSX in Europe.
Not blazing is right... my 10 year old "Compact" Accord has almost that horsepower, 130hp... it is quite tepid when needing to accelerate in a hurry.
Still, I would not expect the Elantra to be very quick, but it is supposed to get high MPG for it's size, so that's fine.
130 hp should be quite adequte for highway merging and normal driving, just not sporty fast.
New gen is slowly growing on me. Looks like it might wind up taking some sales away from big brother Max.
07 altima
but the field is going to get hot in couple years...
The way I see it....One year from now, buyers would have a good choice with
1. 2007 Nissan Altima
2. 2007 Toyota Camry
3. 2008 Honda Accord (hopefully fall 07)
4. 2007 Saturn Aura
5. 2007 Chrysler Sebring
6. 2008 Subaru Legacy??
7. 2008 Chevy Malibu??
8. 2007 VW Passat
Did I miss out on any?
Anyways, its a good thing as I would be in the market in a year or two...
Elantra AT: 2837 lbs. (2006), 138 hp, 20.6 lbs./hp
Camry LE CE/LE I4 AT: 3307 lbs., 158 hp, 20.9 lbs./hp
If you want sporty fast in a mid-sized car, there's all sorts of good V6 choices, some that will do 0-60 in under 7 secs.
Haha, nobody will ever call the acceleration sporty, but it is adequate 95% of the time. There are days (when I have a few passengers) that I wish it had 150-160 hp, especially when I'm facing an uphill onramp starting at only 15 MPH and have to be near 75 at the top!
BTW, my Accord weighs 2850 lbs, the Elantra 2650 lbs; I'd expect the upsized Elantra to weight at least what the new Civic weighs, at 2,750lbs. Not too much different (less than the weight of a passenger's difference). Decent most of the time? Yes. At the new class standard? We'll see. This may have been mentioned; does it have a 5-speed auto, or just a 4? That will make a lot of difference in acceleration, especially to a smaller engined car (like Civic and Elantra).
Camry LE CE/LE I4 AT: 3307 lbs., 158 hp, 20.9 lbs./hp
Accord I-4 AT: 3188 lbs, 166 hp, 19.2 lbs./hp
Accord seems peppier than those two.
If your only criteria are price, and interior space. I suppose the Elantra will do. Most of us want more pep, among other things.
If the new Elantra's interior volume puts it in the mid-size category, so be it. But if it "quacks" like an economy car, then it's still an economy car to me.
I see the TSX as a luxury edition of the 4cyl Accord. And the TL as a luxury edition of the V6 Accord. You get more style, options, and a little more performance for the extra $$$. And that's cool, if it's what you want.
If you have a V6 Accord the TSX is not really an upgrade. It's smaller, with a 4cyl engine.
If I can buy a car with mid-sized room and all the comfort and luxury I need for an economy car price, I think that is a good thing.
My heart says 07 Jetta, but my mind says stay with the safe Asians. But there is something about the handling of the Jetta, the controls, the philosophy of that car that screams European sports sedan. Even if it burns oil and needs nuisance repairs. But then again, I have a Volvo now, and every Asian/American car I have test driven just didn't have the "right stuff" for me.
That's why I said it's a parallel car. The TSX isn't a luxury edition of a 4 cylinder Accord, but a much sportier edition. As for the TL, it's sportier (sharper handling) AND more luxurious than an Accord. A more practical choice?, probably not.
So what happens when in that case with all the majority of cars and trucks that are slower than Elantra? There are still lots of old and new cars, trucks and vans on the road that somehow manage to get on the freeway safely with slower acceleration.
I never merge on the freeway at 75 MPH even on a normal flat or downhill freeway onramp.
It's the I "need" a V6 with 200+ HP just to get on a freeway onramp excuse when the reality is that people just like more power because it's fun to have.
"I 'need' a Porsche/BMW etc because it handles so well that I would avoid all theses accidents that are caused by mediocre handling."
You picked up on that. Now I know you're paying attention to what I write.
I ask you this, which car is more of an economy car? My point on the Jetta is this: it only competes with economy cars in size only. In features, fit/finish, sophistication, quality and performance it's more comparable to mid-size cars.
The "roomy" Elantra I suspect will have more in common with economy cars in features, fit/finish, sophistication, quality and performance.
i suspect that engine works well in the focus.
some thoughts...
1. size, interior and exterior.
2. quality of interior, engines, suspension, and choices of options needing to be better than compacts
3. engine choices
4. premium options like leather, nav, sat radio (this piece of criteria I'm not sure about...just cuz a car doesn't offer nav shouldn't automatically eliminate it f/ this class...just throwing it out there)
5. price (w/in a range of other midsize cars) - also not sure about this one either since there are already a wide range of prices in cars that we all agree with
anybody else with ideas as to how to define the Midsize Family Sedan?
basically, I'm thinking that midsize should lie between near luxury class and the economy class (not to be confused with the compact or subcompact class)- in other words, it's a category that is a bridge from one class to another. my sense is that the elantra should be in the econonmy class b/c of lack of engine choices, the quality and look of the interior, the price it sells for, and the number of options that are available f/ the factory.
Have you tried a base Volvo S40? I deplore you to get the car that's "right" for you. You may or may not have reliability issues but one thing you can be sure of is the enjoyment of driving the car that's right for you day in and day out.
My ranking for a midsize family sedan:
1. Safety
2. Size
3. Fuel economy
4. Comfort
5. Value
6. etc...
1. 2007 Nissan Altima
2. 2007 Toyota Camry
3. 2008 Honda Accord (hopefully fall 07)
4. 2007 Saturn Aura
5. 2007 Chrysler Sebring
6. 2008 Subaru Legacy??
7. 2008 Chevy Malibu??
8. 2007 VW Passat
Did I miss out on any?
Anyways, its a good thing as I would be in the market in a year or two...
I would say you missed.. Fusion/Milan G6, 6, Sonata..??? :shades:
Nope, that's not the general consensus. The Jetta does not compete with the Elantra. People tend not to cross shop $14K cars with $22-28K cars. You're right, consumers looking for an economy car are on a budget. That leaves out the Jetta, right?
Please do some more research on the Jetta. I think you'll come to a different conclusion if you do so.
what about a poor man's A3/A4/S40/9-3/TSX?
In my case, buying the Elantra was not a function of budget, or lack thereof, but rather discovering the most bang for the buck. For example, the fit and finish on the Elantra (on a direct A/B comparison on an adjacent dealer's lot) was superior to a 2005 Civic LX. After over 40 years of driving, I've learned that the only person I need to impress is myself.
Jetta vs. midsize I don't buy at all; but Jetta vs TSX, let's say, I'll give you.
So much for doing some research.
Yes, for $28K you can get a much bigger car. As for your two other points, umm... you'll know the error of your ways with some research.
Yes, I test drove the Jetta then; and by the way, I thought it was a good car overall. It just didn't meet my needs - among other shortfalls, the backseat was way too tight for my family.
But let's look at the other criteria you mentioned:
2. quality of interior, engines, suspension, and choices of options needing to be better than compacts
Quality of interior: have you seen the interior of the 2007 Elantra, even photos of it? It puts many higher-priced cars to shame, including Hyundai's own Sonata. According to C/D, the interior of the 2007 Elantra will "frighten" its Japanese competitors. It offers perforated/heated leather seating, tilt/telescope steering with cruise and audio controls on the wheel, tasteful blue gauges, metallic trim, etc.
Engines: I suppose there could be a rule that a "mid-sized sedan" has to offer an engine with more than 4 cylinders. But since every one of the mid-sized sedans mentioned at the top of the discussion is offered with a 4-cylinder engine, and those are generally the best sellers, I am not sure why we'd want to make that limitation.
Suspension: Not sure what you mean by that. Is a fully-independent suspension with front and rear rollbars good enough to qualify? Some compacts like the Corolla have a beam rear suspension, but many small cars have sophisticated suspensions, so I don't think that is a good criterion.
Choice of options: Ah, but which options? Nav? Several mid-sized sedans don't offer nav in all markets. Bluetooth? Ditto. (Anyway, you can get Bluetooth on some smaller cars.) Eight airbags? Only a few mid-sized family sedans offer those. Leather interior? Some compacts offer that too. How about standard ABS and stability control in all models? But that would eliminate almost ALL the mid-sized cars.
3. engine choices
Already covered in #2.
4. premium options like leather, nav, sat radio (this piece of criteria I'm not sure about...just cuz a car doesn't offer nav shouldn't automatically eliminate it f/ this class...just throwing it out there)
Again, already covered in #2. Good thing not having nav doesn't eliminate a car, because that would eliminate cars like the Fusion, Malibu, and Sonata. How about OnStar? Maybe every mid-sized car should have that safety and convenience feature (the General would like that rule).
5. price (w/in a range of other midsize cars) - also not sure about this one either since there are already a wide range of prices in cars that we all agree with
You are right, there's a wide range of prices. Should we eliminate cars like the Fusion, Malibu, Optima, and Sonata because they can be had for under $16k with rebates and some discounting? If it helps, a loaded 2007 Elantra Limited will be close to $19k, maybe even $20k. (The top-of-the-line 2006 Elantra tops $18k, and prices and equipment levels are going up.)
So maybe the EPA has the right idea after all.
It occurred to me that you might be able to get an Impala SS or a hemi powered Charger for $28k. Well I'm sticking to my guns that there's not a $28k car that has more amenities than a $28K Jetta.