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I like the Minivan example. If you parked a 84 Dodge, a 93 Dodge, and a new one, you would see it growing. Actually the Toyota minivans have done the same thing from the Van to the Previa to the 1st Sienna to the present one.
They are still saying that at 200 hp!
Also if you drive long distances in the "defrost" position, your AC is on, and that will drop mileage by at least 10%.
There is definitely something wrong with your car.
Consumer Reports...
"... The noisy Ford-supplied 3.0-liter V6 delivers lackluster performance."
http://www.consumerreports.org:80/cro/cars/models/mazda/mpv/model-overview/miniv- an-es.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=mazda%20mpv
Consumer Guide...
"... driver must frequently floor the gas pedal to achieve good progress, especially in hilly terrain or in highway merging or passing."
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/New/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38742/Act/Roadt- est/
http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1477102&highlight=#1477102
Another person found his poor mileage was caused by his air cleaner and intake tube becoming unclamped. I think this allowed air to be introduced downstream of the air mass flow sensor which caused the sensor to misjudge the amount of air the engine was getting vs the fuel mixture.
Driving for mileage is a learned skill just as is driving for speed or driving for safety. Keeping to the posted speed limits certainly helps, not least when you observe how "speedy" drivers weaving through traffic seldom gain much time or distance advantage.
The first three tanks were 33.5 mpg, doing constant acceleration and deceleration under 3000 rpm on rural roads for break-in.
The next tank was 40.5 mpg, driving as gently as possible, mostly on rural roads, with some suburban and city driving.
The most recent tank was 35.5 mpg, driving as gently as possible, mostly in suburban driving.
That was all on 87 octane. Now at 1700 miles I have filled it with 93 octane, to avoid any invocation of the knock sensor under full throttle, so that the engine will make its maximum power. And I am driving it hard. Flooring it often, winding it out through the gears in traffic and on rural roads, and going 75 on Interstate hops around the city. I am curious to see how low the mpg will go. I expect it will be around 27 mpg.
As for the hybrids, Toyota came out publicly and stated that real-world mileage will not approach the EPA ratings, even though some people manage to achieve those numbers anyway. Toyota actually asked for permission to put an extra note on the car's sticker stating that real-world mileage will be less than the EPA rating, but the government told them they couldn't do it.
However, the government DOES maintain a website where real owners can post their fuel economy averages, and last time I looked at it, Prius owners were averaging 47 mpg, NOT the 38 someone posted above.
The xB is a brick in terms of aerodynamic drag - I imagine that if you drive fairly fast most of the time, it would be easy to get mileage only in the mid-20s. That car is putting a whole lot of glass and metal in the wind.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
During break in with constantly and wastefully varying the speed = 33 mpg (on 3 tanks).
After break in, driving as easy as possible = 40 mpg (on 1 tank).
After break in, driving normally = 35 mpg (on one tank).
Now I have filled the tank with 93 octane gas to avoid the knock sensor's reducing the power under high load, and am driving harder. Hard accelerations, shifting past 3000 rpm, etc. I expect the mpg could drop into the high 20's.
I am satisfied with my xB's mpg, as I think it can be anything I want it to be.
BTW, I met someone who bought a several-year-old Prius for $12K, and said he was glad he had bought a warranty on it for another $1.5K. He said in the past year the warranty has paid for $10K in claims.
He said the cost was a combination of many things going wrong with the car, the difficulty and extra time required for working on the hybrid, and some dealer incompetence and mistakes.
One example: The dealer drained the coolants. The electric motor has a separate cooling system, which they forgot to refill, which fortunately only burned up that water pump, which was a very special and costly part, and the front end of the car had to be removed to get at it.
I think as the hybrids age, get high miles, break down and have accidents, we are going to hear more complaints about the complexity and cost of maintaining and repairing them. Their high initial and running costs will never be offset by their slightly better gas mileage.
I'm looking for the mileage of the XB in real world numbers. One of your messages indicates your XB got 33-34 average over the year. Don't you mean the Scion XA?? Your website indicates that you own an XA not an XB. I want the XB if it gets great mileage.
Thank you
bing8
I think it is the general consensus on this board that the xB will get somewhat fewer MPG than the xA because of its rather mediocre aerodynamics and no doubt because people would tend to carry more weight in it.
On to the gas mileage. I live in Houston, and the traffic is horrible. I drive 50 miles one way to work, and have noticed I don't get really good gas mileage. In the morning driving to work, the traffic is stop and go. Every few blocks I am stopped by red lights for about 10 or so miles. Driving home, the trip is smooth with minimal traffic. My average speed is 75mps. I find that my car gets better gas with the stop and go traffic. I know driving fast is bad on mileage, but I fill up every 3.5 days. I love my car, but I wish it got better gas mileage.
Those are the two worst possible conditions for mileage. 50% stop and go from light to light, and 50% high speed on the Interstate. Don't blame the car.
33 mpg - 3 tanks
Breaking in with constant acceleration and deceleration in 4th and 5th gear, on long drives on mostly country roads, some suburb, very little city, and no Interstate, using 3/4 throttle, shifing at 2000 rpm, not exceeding 3000 rpm.
40 mpg - 1 tank
One continuous drive, mostly country roads, some suburb and very little city, no Interstate, shifing at 2000 rpm, not exceeding 3000 rpm.
35 mpg - 1 tank
Normal daily driving in suburbs and city, no Interstate.
32 mpg - i tank
Normal daily driving in suburbs and some city, no Interstate, but with more acceleration by shifting at 3000 rpm and driving more aggressively
The mileage is entirely under my control. I can get 40, or 35, or maybe even 25 mpg, depending on where and how I drive.
If I wanted to compete at every stop light, lead the pack all around town, and eat up the beltway at 80 mph, the xB would aquit itself admirably. I have tried it rather often, and it is great fun. But is is very bad for the mileage.
However, in consideration of the price of gas, I like to savor the ability of the VVT to take shifts at 2000 rpm, and I lay back from the pack in traffic.
If you drive gently, the engine will see no benefit from low octane gas. But if you drive hard, using full throttle, high rpms, and cruise at high speeds, the engine can benefit from premium gas. It will make it's full designed power, it will accelerate faster, it will use less throttle pedal, will make more power under full throttle and high rpms, and will use less gas.
However, a tank of premium costs $2 more than a tank of regular. If premium gas saves 2-3 mpg, it is a wash cost-wise. The benefit of premium gas is not in the wallet, it is in the seat of the pants from better response and more power under full throttle and high rpms.
That shoud read:
"... if you drive gently, the engine will see no benefit from HIGH octane gas."
But the xB owner's manual says the xB engine can use high octane gas. Read it -- it says use 87 octane "or better". With its high 10:5 compression ratio, the xB engine uses its computer management system to retard the ignition on 87 octane gas whenever you use full throttle or high rpms, to avoid pre-ignition (aka knocking or pinging). Retarding the ignition reduces power. If you don't drive hard, you won't mind 87 octane. But if you are trying to pass a car on a two-lane road and need the most power the engine can make, you will want full ignition advance from high octane gas.
I've owned 4.6L with 10.0 compression and knock sensors, and 9.0 without KS.
The 10/KS required 93 octane and did horribly without it. Always better mileage with it but still cost me more $ overall.
Is this absolute lab-tested proof? No. But aatherton's explanation is sound.
I'm treating the car as it was designed. High fuel economy. There's no sense ricing the hell out of it (including 93-103 octane) to tweak out the extra 5 hp.
On the usual ten-gallon fillup, 93 octane costs an extra $2. I fill up once a week, so if I make use of the high octane 6x7=42 times per tank, the cost per kick is 200/42 or less than 5 cents. Cheap thrills for this 63-year old.
The only possiblity of monetary gain from 93 octane is high speed cruising. If at 80 mph on 87 octane the knock sensor should be working continuously to prevent maximum ignition advance, then the engine would use less throttle at that load if it were able to burn 93 octane and make more power. Less throttle means less gas.
In this ideal situation, can 93 octane then pay for its extra cost? People have reported that trips at 80 mph result in poor sub-30 mpg. Suppose that is not only due to the high wind resistance of the box, but also to the knock sensor reducing power on 87 octane and causing more throttle to be used to maintain the speed.
Suppose using 93 octane at 80 mph reduced the amount of throttle enough to save 2 mpg. On a 300-mile tank, that would save .7 gallons of 93 octane, worth about $2. That is the same as the extra cost of the gas. So in reality, it's a wash, with no monetary gain from high octane.
"... according to BMW, the fuel mileage is 47 mpg on premium fuel, with the option to convert to regular with a loss of 2 hp and a few mpg."
Unlike the xB, the cheapest BMW motorcycle does not have costly sophisticated electronic engine management that senses knocking on the fly and retards the ignition as needed. To use 87 octane, the BMW bike's engine computer must be converted (i.e. "flashed" or reprogrammed) by the dealer.
If the penalty is proportional to displacement, the xB would lose almost 4 hp and 5 mpg on 87 octane gas.
This would only occur at high load on the engine - full throttle demanding full power, hard acceleration, high speed riding. Puttering around town, or crusing down the road, using only a little of the engine's potential, there would be no penalty.
You would have to run a lot at high load, full throttle, high rpms, high speed, to see the difference. In ordinary driving, not invoking the knock sensor, there is no difference to record.
I just did the 8,000 mile averaging, for all kinds of driving, all kinds of weather, all kinds of gasoline....and the answer is: 34 mpg!!
The fillup was 7.29 gallons, for 36.75 mpg.