In the writeups often is mention of the grind of brakes, probably electronic misapplication of the ABS applying and releasing the brakes.
All along this appears to be a computer going crazy problem where the engine races and the "brakes don't work."
Toyota is "Moving Forward" just like their motto says.
"approached a parking lot for a convenience store. He turned into parking lot at approximately 15 mph, still coasting with his foot on brake. As his speed reduced to approximately 3 to 5 mph, Mr. Teston reports that he heard the ABS brakes activating followed by clicking sound when the engine raced to full-throttle. The vehicle surged forward and hit a pole approximately three feet in front of him. Once the vehicle impacted the pole, the rear of the vehicle began hopping as the rear tires continued to spin. Mr. Teston placed the vehicle into Park and the engine maintained wide-open-throttle until the ignition was turned off. There were two witnesses to the event. Mr. Teston’s vehicle was fitted with OE carpeted floor mats that were in place and secured."
Also, most of the people pictured don't look like elder, demented brain sufferers as some toyotaphiles have attempted to portray them. Where are all those incompetent drivers that are to blame for pressing the wrong pedal instead of the brake?
My cousin traded an old trashed out work van during C4Cs on a HHR panel van. He loves that vehicle. Great mileage and no problems. Lots more room than the Vibe or Matrix and not near as ugly.
the EDR only saves a few seconds of information when the airbags are deployed?
Source for that "few seconds" claim? This was a Prius, not a Boeing.
The reported data changed several times over a few days concerning this so called analysis
Again, a source? Several times? I seem to recall 2 interpretations of the same data.
refuted by the CHP observation during the Sike's SUA incident
CHP can't see the pedals. They gave Sikes the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean it wasn't a hoax.
Why did he not put it in to neutral after the 911 operator told him to do so THREE times? And how was he able to reach the pedals with his arms and pull up the accelerator pedal when his arms aren't long enough to do that?
Bernard even said he had to pull over and get out before he could pull the stuck pedal back. You can't reach the pedals while driving! Try it yourself. And yes I'd love to hear more from him, absolutely.
Sikes was a hoax because what he claims happened is IMPOSSIBLE. That's not my opinion - it's fact. He could not reach for the shifter to find neutral, yet he could reach a pedal on the floor? Hello? McFly?
For those that believe that toyota is an honest auto maker that has been victimized
No, I don't think that. Not at all.
Toyota is no different than any other automaker. I don't think any of them are 100% honest. Do you?
I remember a story a while back in C&D about UA and it involved stuck pedals, and the PR person from the company said they recalled them because they "might increase stopping distances". No, this was not Toyota. But honestly, do you think any other company would do it differently?
Toyota dragged their feet for many fixes, cut costs and quality and even safety suffered.
That doesn't mean Sikes is not a liar. If you trust him go give your credit card number to his porn/swinger site and see if you don't end up with fraudulent charges on there. Good luck explaining those to your wife.
The recall came after Toyota conducted testing on 32 ECMs and said four malfunctioned after testing.
Today, Toyota said it will recall vehicles with the 1ZZ-FE engine and two-wheel drive. The company said if the unit -- produced by Delphi -- failed, "the check engine may illuminate, harsh shifting could result, or the engine may not start."
In some cases, Toyota said, "the engine could stop while the vehicle is being driven."
That story is 100% consistent with a mechanical failure of the pedals that were recalled.
Noone is saying UA never happened. Pedals were in fact recalled.
It's the conspiracy theories about Sikes' Prius brake override failing that get out of hand. Especially when NHTSA tested that car and the feature worked fine, plus all the holes in his allegations of what happened.
Other far-fetched stories, too, like the 3-armed Grandma.
The point is, if it smells like a fish, it's probably a fish. Both Grandma and Sikes claim to have had both hands firmly on the wheel at all times, yet at the same time they had their hands somewhere else.
Sniffing out a fake story, or hoax, is easy.
Some people hate Toyota so much that they become blind to the obvious.
Nice spin on the Sikes incident. Just limited facts or answers. I have never considered him an upstanding citizen. Though all I know is written by confirmed toyota faithful. Where is his testimony after the day of the incident? I love how the faithful will form a lynch mob to hang anyone that has a problem with toyota. That includes here on Edmund's. Look at the facts on Sikes. The bankruptcy is public information. Where is this so called porn site. That could have been a made up story for character assassination. I suppose you don't believe that toyota PR people are capable of that? They did it to Dr Gilbert an upstanding citizen without any skeletons. Tried to get him fired from his job at the college. Go ahead spin that one for me. Oh, and he was a toyota faithful prior to this UA exposure. At least he bought a brand new Tundra.
There are fanboys here that have even excoriated true victims like Saylor. So spin on, you are not convincing anyone that is not already faithful to the toyota myth of greatness.
Especially when NHTSA tested that car and the feature worked fine, plus all the holes in his allegations of what happened.
Toyota tested and handed the results to that bunch of bought off NHTSA lackeys.
When a representative from Rep. Darrell Issa's San Diego office arrived at the dealership, Toyota technicians were not against his presence. However, the NHTSA investigators asked Issa's representative to leave or they would suspend their inspection.
Issa's rep stayed, and the inspection was stopped. Issa made a phone call to Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood, and Issa's press secretary Kurt Bardella told 10News, "Congressman Issa spoke with Secretary LaHood, and Secretary LaHood acquiesced and expressed no objection to having Congressman Issa's representatives there."
Two hours later, the investigation into what went wrong with Sikes' Prius continued. However, what happened between Issa's rep and the NHTSA may have exposed some lingering doubts about the NHTSA's role in keeping drivers safe.
My cousin is happy with his HHR. He rebuilds musical instruments and travels all over the Midwest buying them. $12k cash out the door with a van that had no reverse as trade, was not too bad. Yaris is pretty sparse also. I know the one I drove, I was happy to get out of. I am not a Government Motors fan after my last GM PU truck. So you are preaching at the wrong guy. Quite frankly most everything I see on the car lots is pretty junky in 2010. Not much to get excited about.
The HHR is a copy of the PT, but improves on it, IMO. It is much longer behind the rear seat than the PT...more like a little station wagon. And I think the panel version is brilliant. I can't believe they don't advertise it more. I follow the industry and I actually saw a new one on a dealer lot before I even knew they were going to build them.
When I bought my '08 Cobalt new (it's been great), I would have preferred an HHR but built in Mexico was such a total turnoff for me, I couldn't do it. The Cobalt is built 40 miles down the road from me.
Incidentally, the vaunted CR recommends the HHR. (gasp!)
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Well,ateixeira: I had a 2007 PT Cruiser for a little over two years and put about 30,000 miles on same and traded that POS in on a 2009 HHR (both models were the top of the line models) and I can honestly tell you the HHR is ten times better than the PT and the gas mileage on the PT sucks as compared the the HHR. I don't knpw if you have ever owned both....but...your comparison to these vehicles certainly is a hell of a lot different than mine. Even the noise level is a lot less in the HHR.
You implied I was gullible, but if you have property to sell in the Florida swamps then you must've been the gullible one because you bought it in the first place. Plus you believe Sikes. :P
Let me ask, though, who are these "toyota faithful" you keep referring to? I've only owned one, and since then I've bought 2 cars that were not Toyotas. I seek the best product for my needs, with no blind loyalty.
You've had multiple Toyotas, right? Not me. Don't call me faithful.
OK, perhaps you were duped, I myself noticed the quality on the Tundra interior was not up to par even with previous Toyotas, but then again, who was gullible enough to buy a Tunrda? Not me.
My 2007 Sienna's interior is fine, though the 2011s are not, which is why I would not buy one again today. I'm not the gullible one.
I love how the faithful will form a lynch mob to hang anyone that has a problem with toyota
Oh, please. The lynch mob with the pitch forks are the ones rallying against Toyota. They are scorned buyers like you, who are disappointed with their own purchase decision (who's fault is that?), plus blindly loyal Mopar fans, Ford guys, and Chevy guys. The kind of brands that are on Calvin T-shirts.
Where is this so called porn site.
I shared the link here TWICE, you don't remember? A bad memory is your problem, not mine. Take more vitamins.
Fanboy, no, I commute in a Miata (which killed the MR2), and my wife drives another brand also. We've owned a single Toyota out of dozens of cars we've owned, so you are completely mis-using that word.
Loyal fanboys would own several Toyotas, right? How many have you owned? LOL
Loyal fanboys would own several Toyotas, right? How many have you owned? LOL
Fanboys are not likely to be owners of toyota vehicles. They are just blindly defending a company they have had little experience with. Several here fit that to a "T". Yourself not considered one of them. I am not sure your reasons for defending them in this situation.
I cannot say I am totally disenchanted with Toyota products. My Sequoia is probably better than the competition. That just does not say much does it. And who can complain about our Lexus that is 21 years old and runs like a Swiss watch. It is the ToyLex dealers I have been less than pleased with. Along with the cheap electronics in the Sequoia. By the way. The Toyota service people called yesterday. They finally got my CD back that was stuck in the NAV when they exchanged it. It only took 11 months. I am surprised they found it. Wonder if it is totally destroyed after all it has been through. They are mailing it out to me. I must say the Santee Toyota service place is better than average. The lost CD was not their fault. Nor was the two months getting a new NAV from India.
Interesting spin. The interior of the Cobalt matches the BMW X3
No spin at all, the interior of the BMW X3 sucked. I wrote reviews on the X3 right here on Edmunds, you can search if you want.
In fact I went on the BMW Ultimate Test Drive event and won the "Best Performance" award, I still have the little orange cone they award to prove it. :shades:
BMW didn't even build that car, they outsourced production to Magna-Steyr IIRC.
The interior wasn't even the X3's biggest flaw - a terrible ride was. At least it handled well.
Plus, who said Cobalt? The HHR's interior is very different.
So they bought off NHTSA, Sikes, and Bernard, too?
Maybe you have a better explanation for the cover up by NHTSA in 2007. Or where are Sikes and Bernard.
PS I don't want my URL linked to any porn sites so I probably ignored them when you posted. Was Sikes in any of the movies? Or was there any actual evidence that it was his porn site?
That does not mean that toyota corporate is not a liar also. So who is the biggest liar? Toyota by far is the bigger liar. I just don't think those analyzing the incident are doing it in an unbiased fashion. His initial statement is very telling to those of us that know the area very well. He said the car just took off when he went to accelerate at the Lake Jennings on ramp to I8. Well there are huge high voltage lines crossing the Freeway at that precise location. EMI is the most likely culprit in legitimate UA.
Yourself not considered one of them. I am not sure your reasons for defending them in this situation.
If there are Toyota Fanboys here, they don't seem very vocal. It seemed like you were calling me that, but you're not, so I'll let it go.
Honestly, the Toyota Haters seem far more vocal, even troll-like. They drop in ONLY when they have bad news to share about Toyota, hit-and-run style. They do not respond to questions I ask about blatantly obvious errors in the story (e.g. Grandma's 3 arms, we all saw through that hoax). No response - admitting they were wrong about something being bad with Toyotas is beyond the Haterade.
They reappear only when they have more bad news about the recalls, which I already shared, so that info was redundant anyway, not to mention they misinterpret the data, again, always to the detriment of Toyota.
So why do I remain neutral, and not join the Haterade bandwagon even knowing Toyota made obvious errors?
Someone has to keep those haters honest. I like to play Devil's Advocate.
Criticism is OK - but only when it is accurate.
Throwing mud and hoping something sticks is not OK.
In fact throwing mud is bad because it clouds the picture. What is bad and what isn't? How can we clean the mess if we can't even see what's messy?
The problem I had with Sikes is that the media tried to expand the investigation to include models that may not have been affected. That's a waste of resources.
Let's shine the spot light on the real problems. Yes, that includes many Toyotas. Not all Toyotas.
Anyone trying to shine the spotlight on ALL Toyotas has a dishonest agenda.
NHTSA is far from perfect, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they've been bought by Toyota. The recent PDF was presented in front of many senior staff at NHTSA who have big government pensions and would not be bought off so easily.
Sikes will hopefully fade into oblivion, he got his 15 minutes and didn't deserve them. Like you I did not invetigate his site, but Jalopnik did - it was their link and story.
Bernard I'd like to see and hear more from. In fact that's not over by a long shot. I'm sure he'll be called in as a witness during the Saylor trials if Toyota gets sued.
Remember, Toyota was emboldened when they found the black box data was showing data in their favor. They're even trying to get that Camry the guy who spent time in jail was driving.
I'll give you that, Toyota corporate has indeed lied. That powerpoint slide is proof.
I'm not convinced that any other auto manufacturer would be much different, perhaps that's the difference between your point of view and mine. History tells us most already have.
Corporations exist for one reason - to build shareholder value, i.e. profit. If they can lie and get away with it while increasing profits, they will. It's naive to think any different. Even the apparently "ethical" businesses mostly do it because their customers like that and it increases sales enough to offset whatever costs they incur.
Does that sum up corporate business or what? Sad but true.
The real problems are the coverups, the buying of influence, the attempts to obfuscate the truth, and the hiring of a questionable PR group to "help" their image.
Lest you try to make this personal about me or others who dislike toyota's methods, I'll further comment that about 2003 or so the two major mass market players of the time started having quality problems show up in their posts on their threads. The loyalists radically ridiculed some of those stating that there were problems. People were blamed for causing their own troubles in a toyota or Honda product.
Luckily that day is past although one can still read people questioning VCM, CRV and Honda compressor problems, and Odyssey Honda transmission problems continue. Now, some have begun to allow others to air their problems without attacking them; but I can recall several occasions this calendar year where hosts have intervened to rmind the faithful that others are allowed to post their problems about the "golden" cars.
Back in 2003 I commented in Honda and/or toyota threads that regression to the mean had started. I was rounded attacked . Hehheeeeeee. Truth wins out.
Now someone who comments about toyota's exposé of their methods as well as their woes is still criticized as being unreasonable.Indeed, the comments are made personal in nature rather than sticking to the topic about toyota's problems.
I just weigh that against the many posts ridiculing GM and C and Ford products through the decade here on Edmunds as though those products were the worstest, dumbest, most uselessest products on Earth. Heeee, heee. The worm has turned hasn't it? What goes around, comes around. :P
> If Toyota proves that the accident wasn't the result of unintended acceleration, then it may be the case that Lee was at fault.
"Lee's lawyer has expressed obvious concern over allowing Toyota to examine the vehicle unsupervised. So for now, it remains in St. Paul PD custody."
I certainly wouldn't let them touch it at all if I were the State Prosecutor involved. I might let them observe but I would have someone not connected to toyota do any checking on the actual vehicle itself.
Obviously some people are getting it about toyota's trustworthiness.
First off, xlu was wrong, the 1.3 million includes the Vibe, so it's not 1.5m. Don't expect him to admit he was wrong, though. He'll reappear as soon as he finds more bad news for Toyota. (Gary - see what I mean about the haterade?)
That is sort of funny, though.
Detroit News is the source, arguably the most pro-domestic auto rag.
Vibe/Matrix was a joint venture, right? Delphi is based in Troy, Michigan and was basically a spin-off of GM that became indy in 1999.
So the defective ECUs were sourced from an american supplier, formerly part of GM. Basically that was GM's contribution to the joint-venture (and to the Corolla).
Now that's funny.
GM fanboys have any comment?
I still won't let Toyota off the hook. Testing, quality control, and the decision to use that supplier in the first place are on them.
Agree about the PR thing, but it's par for the course. Other car makers do the same thing.
I wasn't around in Honda/Toyota threads in 2003, and I can speak only for myself. I bought a Toyota in 2007 and will sing its praises, admit its faults (few in my case). No automaker is perfect. No car is perfect.
I'm the first to admit (again and again) that the 2011 Sienna is not up to the quality level of my 2007 Sienna. Perhaps other models got the cost-cutting treatment sooner, I dunno. I still think I bought the best minivan available at the time:
* Dodge didn't have roll down windows in the 2nd row * Honda still had untrusted trannys (supposedly 2004+ are OK) * Nissan had cheap plasticky interior thanks to Carlos le Cost Cutter Ghosn * GM/Ford gave up on minivans entirely * Hyundai/Kia actually came close, but were not quite up to Toyota's level yet
You regression-to-the-mean theory is interesting. It's hard to stay on top. People want to knock you down.
The ones who are down either go out of business (Isuzu, Daihatsu, Daewoo) or bounce back (Big 3, though Ford was never really down).
So for once, I will agree with you. Yes, that tends to happen.
Minus the weakest, who go bankrupt. Suzuki and Mitsubishi are dangerously close to being next. Chrysler came close.
Actually Daewoo never went out of business as they were one of the aquisitions by the old General Motors when they actually had money... Look no further than Aveo, or the upcoming Snuze and Spark as well as future small engine programs. Daewoo is alive and well, just now known as GM-DAT (Daewoo Auto Technologies).
As far as Isuzu, GM raped and pillaged Isuzu like they did with Suzuki, Saab and their short (but thankfully over) stint with Subie. They stole what they needed (Saabs safety knowhow, Isuzus Diesel expertise (Duramax diesels are 10 years old this month I believe) and offered nothing in return except Government Motors expertise in rebadging.
Fast forward and Saab is nearly obliterated, Isuzu is gone completely and in the case of Suzuki, they may never come back. Luckily Subaru wasn't trapped by GM's mediocrity that they were able to move on once the rebadged (or "rebadgies") models ran their course.
Then there was the Fiat partnership that blew up in their collective faces and cost the old GM 2 billion to wipe their hands of it.
FWIW I think the vehicle should be inspected by an independent party led by the police. Aren't those cars pre-black box anyway?
Long before the black box. The big question for me, did his 96 Camry have one of the ill fated Cruise Controls mentioned in the Congressional hearings? If so the victims family know who to sue. Toyota would only be involved if they approved the CC for that model Camry. If it turns out something else like a worn accelerator cable. I would have to blame that on the owner of the vehicle. A 10 year old vehicle is going to have things worn out and it becomes the responsibility of the owner. Unless it is a known defective design such as the suspension that breaks.
Yes, and this time the Yamaha MUSICAL division got involved too, helping with the sound of the engine and tuning what the driver hears:
The Center for Advanced Sound Technologies of Yamaha Corporation (Headquarters: 10-1, Nakazawa-cho, Naka-ku, Hamamatsu, Shizuoka, President: Mitsuru Umemura) and Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd., performed acoustic design work for the engine of the Lexus LFA, which will be displayed at the 41st Tokyo Motor Show that begins on October 23. Yamaha Motor assisted in developing the engine for this sports car. The goal of the acoustic design project was to generate the dramatic and exciting acoustic properties that people expect of mass-produced super sports car like the Lexus LFA.
The Lexus LFA and its engine will be on display at the Lexus booth at the 2009 Tokyo Motor Show, and the prototype engine will be shown at the Yamaha Motor booth.
It's good to see Toyota finally recalling all those crappy mid-'00s Corollas - those things sucked to try and start, especially if they weren't stone cold and also hadn't just been shut down. Sometimes you could crank them for ten, fifteen seconds before they started. Sometimes they wouldn't start at all on the first try. And even on a hot start that went normally, it would crank much longer than any other car I have ever owned, before the engine turned over and ran.
Juice: I think you got pretty lucky waiting until '07 to buy the Sienna. My friends' '05 is at 85K now, and the power sliding door has quit for good. The side airbags are on their second set of $1000+ repairs, which Toyota will pay for but only because the same airbags were already repaired at the 50K mark. And Toyota will only reimburse, they won't cover it initially, so my friend is stuck waiting until he has $1200 or so he can tie up in this repair for the 4-6 weeks it will take Toyota to reimburse him.
Meanwhile the driver's door resolder repair that was part of a recall a couple of years back is already beginning to fail again, and the door does not consequently line up perfectly any more, plus it makes lots of scrunchy skronky noises when it is pushed all the way open.
The other day I went to pull down the rear door to close it, and the grab handle came off in my hand. At 5 years of age and 85K miles, this van is falling apart all around them, and they aren't even finished paying for it. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They're way ahead of you, four (4) lawsuits have already been filed against Toyota. That is why Toyota is defending themselves.
For sure, if that's aftermarket cruise control, they need to know that. The courts should know, too.
The age of the vehicle could definitely be a factor, I agree. If a manufacturer schedules service for an owner to "lubricate throttle assembly" and an owner does not perform that service, things get complicated. By that age every serviceable part should have been serviced.
Though more likely that car had some cheap knock-off cruise control and it malfunctioned. If so, go after the guys who installed it.
Juice: I think you got pretty lucky waiting until '07 to buy the Sienna
Perhaps, but I did plenty of research.
Vans have tons of features, so there is a lot of stuff that can break. It is risky - power doors were a problem for GM minivans and early Hondas, too.
Ironically, they are my favorite feature. Big-time safety w/kids, convenient, they expel heat before you get in, doors are open by the time you reach it, they don't take up space when open, ... countless benefits.
Reliability all pointed to Sienna being the best, no matter the source. They are far from perfect - witness the sludge in the 1MZ engines. But the 3MZ was fine, and the 2GR had been used for a year or two in the Avalon (I think) before the Sienna moved to that engine.
The trans in mine is the older, more reliable U151E 5 speed, rather than Toyota's newer U660E 6 speed transmission, which only came to the Sienna in 2011.
So basically I chose a proven engine, proven transmission, and the most reliable minivan according to multiple sources (CR, TrueDelta).
Truth is the Sienna won my dollars on merit, though. It has the most horsepower combined with the best EPA mileage figures, and the most seats (8), and fits a 4'x8' sheet of plywood flat on the floor with the hatch closed (amazing - even a Suburban can't do that).
Basically, it's old-school Toyota, pre-cost cutting. More like Gary's Lexus than his newer Tundra, perhaps.
Perhaps the strongest argument for its reliability is the cost of an extended warranty - I can get a 7/100 for $700 something and have the complex power doors all covered. Soooo cheap.
Of the 3 cars in my fleet it's the biggest, yet insurance is the cheapest, too.
Based purely on merit - it is an EXCELLENT minivan and has exceeded my already high expectations.
Still think other automakers are different than Toyota?
NHTSA got 200 complaints from owners who had rear axles break in half on their Windstars. The front subframe is also under investigation.
Sounds familiar - similar to the Tundra rust issue, no?
So, does Ford:
A). Fix them all, front and rear. . Fix all rear axles only. C). Fix all front subframes only. D). None of the above.
The answer is D. Ford is only recalling the rear axles, but just those in the snow belt states!
That means if you drive your Ford minivan in Florida, and it collapses, don't panic. Your Ford stock gained enough value to offset the cost of the rear axle breaking in half. You'll be fine, really.
I'll repeat, anyone think other automakers are different than Toyota?
Anyone who thinks I have a beef against Ford, I'm happy to share pics of my '91 Escort GT, or read my recent (positive) review of the Fiesta in the subcompacts thread.
Basically, it's old-school Toyota, pre-cost cutting. More like Gary's Lexus than his newer Tundra, perhaps.
Actually I don't have a Tundra based Sequoia. I have the old school 2007 Sequoia which I believe is better than the new ones based on the problematic Tundra chassis. Mine was the last year before toyota went real cheap. It is also a better choice in my opinion than the large SUVs offered by Ford and GM. Never considered a Chrysler SUV after renting a Durango for a week. And the price on the Sequoia was right. It still looks brand new and only has 22k miles after 3 years. They bring top dollar in prime condition.
So the Sequoia was and is a compromise. Just nothing any better in the price class. Maybe the Escalade? Wife hated the looks. I probably should have not gone cheap and bought the GL320 CDI I really wanted. I hate filling up the Sequoia every 350 miles. The GL diesel can easily go 600 miles on a tank of fuel. I could have gotten used to the strange transmission shifting. We just go through life making mistakes.
I certainly would make some different choices in the past, if I knew what I know today.Most would probably agree with that statement.
But then again, making mistakes is one way we learn what to NOT do again, isn't it? We just try to not make a mistake that we can't recover from... at least, we hope we can recover.
I agree, and so far, so good. I have it a lot better than my parents did. I cannot remember a time growing up that something was not broke on a vehicle. Even with toyota today, that is not the case. :shades:
Comments
In the writeups often is mention of the grind of brakes, probably electronic misapplication of the ABS applying and releasing the brakes.
All along this appears to be a computer going crazy problem where the engine races and the "brakes don't work."
Toyota is "Moving Forward" just like their motto says.
"approached a parking lot for a convenience store. He turned into parking lot at approximately 15 mph, still coasting with his foot on brake. As his speed reduced to approximately 3 to 5 mph, Mr. Teston reports that he heard the ABS brakes activating followed by clicking sound when the engine raced to full-throttle. The vehicle surged forward and hit a pole approximately three feet in front of him. Once the vehicle impacted the pole, the rear of the vehicle began hopping as the rear tires continued to spin. Mr. Teston placed the vehicle into Park and the engine maintained wide-open-throttle until the ignition was turned off. There were two witnesses to the event. Mr. Teston’s vehicle was fitted with OE carpeted floor mats that were in place and secured."
Also, most of the people pictured don't look like elder, demented brain sufferers as some toyotaphiles have attempted to portray them. Where are all those incompetent drivers that are to blame for pressing the wrong pedal instead of the brake?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Source for that "few seconds" claim? This was a Prius, not a Boeing.
The reported data changed several times over a few days concerning this so called analysis
Again, a source? Several times? I seem to recall 2 interpretations of the same data.
refuted by the CHP observation during the Sike's SUA incident
CHP can't see the pedals. They gave Sikes the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't mean it wasn't a hoax.
Why did he not put it in to neutral after the 911 operator told him to do so THREE times? And how was he able to reach the pedals with his arms and pull up the accelerator pedal when his arms aren't long enough to do that?
Bernard even said he had to pull over and get out before he could pull the stuck pedal back. You can't reach the pedals while driving! Try it yourself. And yes I'd love to hear more from him, absolutely.
Sikes was a hoax because what he claims happened is IMPOSSIBLE. That's not my opinion - it's fact. He could not reach for the shifter to find neutral, yet he could reach a pedal on the floor? Hello? McFly?
For those that believe that toyota is an honest auto maker that has been victimized
No, I don't think that. Not at all.
Toyota is no different than any other automaker. I don't think any of them are 100% honest. Do you?
I remember a story a while back in C&D about UA and it involved stuck pedals, and the PR person from the company said they recalled them because they "might increase stopping distances". No, this was not Toyota. But honestly, do you think any other company would do it differently?
Toyota dragged their feet for many fixes, cut costs and quality and even safety suffered.
That doesn't mean Sikes is not a liar. If you trust him go give your credit card number to his porn/swinger site and see if you don't end up with fraudulent charges on there. Good luck explaining those to your wife.
From...http://detnews.com/article/20100826/AUTO01/8260461/
The recall came after Toyota conducted testing on 32 ECMs and said four malfunctioned after testing.
Today, Toyota said it will recall vehicles with the 1ZZ-FE engine and two-wheel drive. The company said if the unit -- produced by Delphi -- failed, "the check engine may illuminate, harsh shifting could result, or the engine may not start."
In some cases, Toyota said, "the engine could stop while the vehicle is being driven."
Very simple - he wasn't pressing hard on the brakes.
That's consistent with the wear on the brake pads, which I recall was not from hard braking.
I believe that's wrong. Autoblog reported 1.1 million Toyotas. The 0.2 million Vibes makes the number grow to 1.3 million.
But don't let the truth get in your way...
Noone is saying UA never happened. Pedals were in fact recalled.
It's the conspiracy theories about Sikes' Prius brake override failing that get out of hand. Especially when NHTSA tested that car and the feature worked fine, plus all the holes in his allegations of what happened.
Other far-fetched stories, too, like the 3-armed Grandma.
The point is, if it smells like a fish, it's probably a fish. Both Grandma and Sikes claim to have had both hands firmly on the wheel at all times, yet at the same time they had their hands somewhere else.
Sniffing out a fake story, or hoax, is easy.
Some people hate Toyota so much that they become blind to the obvious.
There are fanboys here that have even excoriated true victims like Saylor. So spin on, you are not convincing anyone that is not already faithful to the toyota myth of greatness.
Cheap interior, cost cutting abounds, hard/shiny surfaces. It's a clown car made to mimick the PT Cruiser, let's face it.
GM makes wonderful products (Corvette, Equinox, Malibu, Traverse, trucks, etc.), but the HHR is not one of them.
Toyota tested and handed the results to that bunch of bought off NHTSA lackeys.
When a representative from Rep. Darrell Issa's San Diego office arrived at the dealership, Toyota technicians were not against his presence. However, the NHTSA investigators asked Issa's representative to leave or they would suspend their inspection.
Issa's rep stayed, and the inspection was stopped. Issa made a phone call to Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood, and Issa's press secretary Kurt Bardella told 10News, "Congressman Issa spoke with Secretary LaHood, and Secretary LaHood acquiesced and expressed no objection to having Congressman Issa's representatives there."
Two hours later, the investigation into what went wrong with Sikes' Prius continued. However, what happened between Issa's rep and the NHTSA may have exposed some lingering doubts about the NHTSA's role in keeping drivers safe.
http://www.10news.com/news/22803197/detail.html
Interesting spin. The interior of the Cobalt matches the BMW X3 owned by another band parent with whom I rode to the Cincinnati Reds games twice.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When I bought my '08 Cobalt new (it's been great), I would have preferred an HHR but built in Mexico was such a total turnoff for me, I couldn't do it. The Cobalt is built 40 miles down the road from me.
Incidentally, the vaunted CR recommends the HHR. (gasp!)
I don't knpw if you have ever owned both....but...your comparison to these vehicles certainly is a hell of a lot different than mine. Even the noise level is a lot less in the HHR.
Let me ask, though, who are these "toyota faithful" you keep referring to? I've only owned one, and since then I've bought 2 cars that were not Toyotas. I seek the best product for my needs, with no blind loyalty.
You've had multiple Toyotas, right? Not me. Don't call me faithful.
OK, perhaps you were duped, I myself noticed the quality on the Tundra interior was not up to par even with previous Toyotas, but then again, who was gullible enough to buy a Tunrda? Not me.
My 2007 Sienna's interior is fine, though the 2011s are not, which is why I would not buy one again today. I'm not the gullible one.
I love how the faithful will form a lynch mob to hang anyone that has a problem with toyota
Oh, please. The lynch mob with the pitch forks are the ones rallying against Toyota. They are scorned buyers like you, who are disappointed with their own purchase decision (who's fault is that?), plus blindly loyal Mopar fans, Ford guys, and Chevy guys. The kind of brands that are on Calvin T-shirts.
Where is this so called porn site.
I shared the link here TWICE, you don't remember? A bad memory is your problem, not mine. Take more vitamins.
Fanboy, no, I commute in a Miata (which killed the MR2), and my wife drives another brand also. We've owned a single Toyota out of dozens of cars we've owned, so you are completely mis-using that word.
Loyal fanboys would own several Toyotas, right? How many have you owned? LOL
So they bought off NHTSA, Sikes, and Bernard, too?
Good one.
Fanboys are not likely to be owners of toyota vehicles. They are just blindly defending a company they have had little experience with. Several here fit that to a "T". Yourself not considered one of them. I am not sure your reasons for defending them in this situation.
I cannot say I am totally disenchanted with Toyota products. My Sequoia is probably better than the competition. That just does not say much does it. And who can complain about our Lexus that is 21 years old and runs like a Swiss watch. It is the ToyLex dealers I have been less than pleased with. Along with the cheap electronics in the Sequoia. By the way. The Toyota service people called yesterday. They finally got my CD back that was stuck in the NAV when they exchanged it. It only took 11 months. I am surprised they found it. Wonder if it is totally destroyed after all it has been through. They are mailing it out to me. I must say the Santee Toyota service place is better than average. The lost CD was not their fault. Nor was the two months getting a new NAV from India.
No spin at all, the interior of the BMW X3 sucked. I wrote reviews on the X3 right here on Edmunds, you can search if you want.
In fact I went on the BMW Ultimate Test Drive event and won the "Best Performance" award, I still have the little orange cone they award to prove it. :shades:
BMW didn't even build that car, they outsourced production to Magna-Steyr IIRC.
The interior wasn't even the X3's biggest flaw - a terrible ride was. At least it handled well.
Plus, who said Cobalt? The HHR's interior is very different.
Maybe you have a better explanation for the cover up by NHTSA in 2007. Or where are Sikes and Bernard.
PS
I don't want my URL linked to any porn sites so I probably ignored them when you posted. Was Sikes in any of the movies? Or was there any actual evidence that it was his porn site?
That does not mean that toyota corporate is not a liar also. So who is the biggest liar? Toyota by far is the bigger liar. I just don't think those analyzing the incident are doing it in an unbiased fashion. His initial statement is very telling to those of us that know the area very well. He said the car just took off when he went to accelerate at the Lake Jennings on ramp to I8. Well there are huge high voltage lines crossing the Freeway at that precise location. EMI is the most likely culprit in legitimate UA.
If there are Toyota Fanboys here, they don't seem very vocal. It seemed like you were calling me that, but you're not, so I'll let it go.
Honestly, the Toyota Haters seem far more vocal, even troll-like. They drop in ONLY when they have bad news to share about Toyota, hit-and-run style. They do not respond to questions I ask about blatantly obvious errors in the story (e.g. Grandma's 3 arms, we all saw through that hoax). No response - admitting they were wrong about something being bad with Toyotas is beyond the Haterade.
They reappear only when they have more bad news about the recalls, which I already shared, so that info was redundant anyway, not to mention they misinterpret the data, again, always to the detriment of Toyota.
So why do I remain neutral, and not join the Haterade bandwagon even knowing Toyota made obvious errors?
Someone has to keep those haters honest. I like to play Devil's Advocate.
Criticism is OK - but only when it is accurate.
Throwing mud and hoping something sticks is not OK.
In fact throwing mud is bad because it clouds the picture. What is bad and what isn't? How can we clean the mess if we can't even see what's messy?
The problem I had with Sikes is that the media tried to expand the investigation to include models that may not have been affected. That's a waste of resources.
Let's shine the spot light on the real problems. Yes, that includes many Toyotas. Not all Toyotas.
Anyone trying to shine the spotlight on ALL Toyotas has a dishonest agenda.
That's why I sometimes defend them.
Sikes will hopefully fade into oblivion, he got his 15 minutes and didn't deserve them. Like you I did not invetigate his site, but Jalopnik did - it was their link and story.
Bernard I'd like to see and hear more from. In fact that's not over by a long shot. I'm sure he'll be called in as a witness during the Saylor trials if Toyota gets sued.
Remember, Toyota was emboldened when they found the black box data was showing data in their favor. They're even trying to get that Camry the guy who spent time in jail was driving.
Poetic justice?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm not convinced that any other auto manufacturer would be much different, perhaps that's the difference between your point of view and mine. History tells us most already have.
Corporations exist for one reason - to build shareholder value, i.e. profit. If they can lie and get away with it while increasing profits, they will. It's naive to think any different. Even the apparently "ethical" businesses mostly do it because their customers like that and it increases sales enough to offset whatever costs they incur.
Does that sum up corporate business or what? Sad but true.
No - read my response to Gary above.
Throwing mud clouds the picture and helps noone. Except maybe trial lawyers and ambulance chasers.
Let's focus the criticism on REAL problems, not 3-armed Grandmas.
Interesting, indeed, and the recalled pedals were from CTS, an american supplier.
Still, Toyota can't put all the blame on them. They spec out the product and are supposed to test it.
Plus, why did they choose Delphi's big instead of a JDM one? Costs? Same reason they're going to low-cost chinese suppliers now.
You get what you pay for. If they squeeze suppliers on price, bad things happen.
I'm amazed they would outsource the whole ECU, though.
I'll read the article when I get the chance...
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/25/report-toyota-subpoenas-camry-in-lee-acquitta- l-case/
Looks like they are defending themselves.
Lest you try to make this personal about me or others who dislike toyota's methods, I'll further comment that about 2003 or so the two major mass market players of the time started having quality problems show up in their posts on their threads. The loyalists radically ridiculed some of those stating that there were problems. People were blamed for causing their own troubles in a toyota or Honda product.
Luckily that day is past although one can still read people questioning VCM, CRV and Honda compressor problems, and Odyssey Honda transmission problems continue. Now, some have begun to allow others to air their problems without attacking them; but I can recall several occasions this calendar year where hosts have intervened to rmind the faithful that others are allowed to post their problems about the "golden" cars.
Back in 2003 I commented in Honda and/or toyota threads that regression to the mean had started. I was rounded attacked . Hehheeeeeee. Truth wins out.
Now someone who comments about toyota's exposé of their methods as well as their woes is still criticized as being unreasonable.Indeed, the comments are made personal in nature rather than sticking to the topic about toyota's problems.
I just weigh that against the many posts ridiculing GM and C and Ford products through the decade here on Edmunds as though those products were the worstest, dumbest, most uselessest products on Earth. Heeee, heee. The worm has turned hasn't it? What goes around, comes around. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Lee's lawyer has expressed obvious concern over allowing Toyota to examine the vehicle unsupervised. So for now, it remains in St. Paul PD custody."
I certainly wouldn't let them touch it at all if I were the State Prosecutor involved. I might let them observe but I would have someone not connected to toyota do any checking on the actual vehicle itself.
Obviously some people are getting it about toyota's trustworthiness.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://detnews.com/article/20100826/AUTO01/8260461/
First off, xlu was wrong, the 1.3 million includes the Vibe, so it's not 1.5m. Don't expect him to admit he was wrong, though. He'll reappear as soon as he finds more bad news for Toyota. (Gary - see what I mean about the haterade?)
That is sort of funny, though.
Detroit News is the source, arguably the most pro-domestic auto rag.
Vibe/Matrix was a joint venture, right? Delphi is based in Troy, Michigan and was basically a spin-off of GM that became indy in 1999.
So the defective ECUs were sourced from an american supplier, formerly part of GM. Basically that was GM's contribution to the joint-venture (and to the Corolla).
Now that's funny.
GM fanboys have any comment?
I still won't let Toyota off the hook. Testing, quality control, and the decision to use that supplier in the first place are on them.
I wasn't around in Honda/Toyota threads in 2003, and I can speak only for myself. I bought a Toyota in 2007 and will sing its praises, admit its faults (few in my case). No automaker is perfect. No car is perfect.
I'm the first to admit (again and again) that the 2011 Sienna is not up to the quality level of my 2007 Sienna. Perhaps other models got the cost-cutting treatment sooner, I dunno. I still think I bought the best minivan available at the time:
* Dodge didn't have roll down windows in the 2nd row
* Honda still had untrusted trannys (supposedly 2004+ are OK)
* Nissan had cheap plasticky interior thanks to Carlos le Cost Cutter Ghosn
* GM/Ford gave up on minivans entirely
* Hyundai/Kia actually came close, but were not quite up to Toyota's level yet
You regression-to-the-mean theory is interesting. It's hard to stay on top. People want to knock you down.
The ones who are down either go out of business (Isuzu, Daihatsu, Daewoo) or bounce back (Big 3, though Ford was never really down).
So for once, I will agree with you. Yes, that tends to happen.
Minus the weakest, who go bankrupt. Suzuki and Mitsubishi are dangerously close to being next. Chrysler came close.
Lee's lawyer has expressed obvious concern over allowing Toyota to examine the vehicle unsupervised. So for now, it remains in St. Paul PD custody.
FWIW I think the vehicle should be inspected by an independent party led by the police. Aren't those cars pre-black box anyway?
That's the engine that shattered the champagne glass in that really cool ad I shared.
Totally worth watching again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsH8QoVOrRM
Lotus has a history of using Toyota engines. The Evora gets the 2GR engine right from my minivan.
As far as Isuzu, GM raped and pillaged Isuzu like they did with Suzuki, Saab and their short (but thankfully over) stint with Subie. They stole what they needed (Saabs safety knowhow, Isuzus Diesel expertise (Duramax diesels are 10 years old this month I believe) and offered nothing in return except Government Motors expertise in rebadging.
Fast forward and Saab is nearly obliterated, Isuzu is gone completely and in the case of Suzuki, they may never come back. Luckily Subaru wasn't trapped by GM's mediocrity that they were able to move on once the rebadged (or "rebadgies") models ran their course.
Then there was the Fiat partnership that blew up in their collective faces and cost the old GM 2 billion to wipe their hands of it.
The Daewoo name didn't survive, either way.
Long before the black box. The big question for me, did his 96 Camry have one of the ill fated Cruise Controls mentioned in the Congressional hearings? If so the victims family know who to sue. Toyota would only be involved if they approved the CC for that model Camry. If it turns out something else like a worn accelerator cable. I would have to blame that on the owner of the vehicle. A 10 year old vehicle is going to have things worn out and it becomes the responsibility of the owner. Unless it is a known defective design such as the suspension that breaks.
The Center for Advanced Sound Technologies of Yamaha Corporation (Headquarters: 10-1, Nakazawa-cho, Naka-ku, Hamamatsu, Shizuoka, President: Mitsuru Umemura) and Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd., performed acoustic design work for the engine of the Lexus LFA, which will be displayed at the 41st Tokyo Motor Show that begins on October 23. Yamaha Motor assisted in developing the engine for this sports car. The goal of the acoustic design project was to generate the dramatic and exciting acoustic properties that people expect of mass-produced super sports car like the Lexus LFA.
The Lexus LFA and its engine will be on display at the Lexus booth at the 2009 Tokyo Motor Show, and the prototype engine will be shown at the Yamaha Motor booth.
http://www.global.yamaha.com/news/2009/20091021.html
It's good to see Toyota finally recalling all those crappy mid-'00s Corollas - those things sucked to try and start, especially if they weren't stone cold and also hadn't just been shut down. Sometimes you could crank them for ten, fifteen seconds before they started. Sometimes they wouldn't start at all on the first try. And even on a hot start that went normally, it would crank much longer than any other car I have ever owned, before the engine turned over and ran.
Juice: I think you got pretty lucky waiting until '07 to buy the Sienna. My friends' '05 is at 85K now, and the power sliding door has quit for good. The side airbags are on their second set of $1000+ repairs, which Toyota will pay for but only because the same airbags were already repaired at the 50K mark. And Toyota will only reimburse, they won't cover it initially, so my friend is stuck waiting until he has $1200 or so he can tie up in this repair for the 4-6 weeks it will take Toyota to reimburse him.
Meanwhile the driver's door resolder repair that was part of a recall a couple of years back is already beginning to fail again, and the door does not consequently line up perfectly any more, plus it makes lots of scrunchy skronky noises when it is pushed all the way open.
The other day I went to pull down the rear door to close it, and the grab handle came off in my hand. At 5 years of age and 85K miles, this van is falling apart all around them, and they aren't even finished paying for it. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They're way ahead of you, four (4) lawsuits have already been filed against Toyota. That is why Toyota is defending themselves.
For sure, if that's aftermarket cruise control, they need to know that. The courts should know, too.
The age of the vehicle could definitely be a factor, I agree. If a manufacturer schedules service for an owner to "lubricate throttle assembly" and an owner does not perform that service, things get complicated. By that age every serviceable part should have been serviced.
Though more likely that car had some cheap knock-off cruise control and it malfunctioned. If so, go after the guys who installed it.
Perhaps, but I did plenty of research.
Vans have tons of features, so there is a lot of stuff that can break. It is risky - power doors were a problem for GM minivans and early Hondas, too.
Ironically, they are my favorite feature. Big-time safety w/kids, convenient, they expel heat before you get in, doors are open by the time you reach it, they don't take up space when open, ... countless benefits.
Reliability all pointed to Sienna being the best, no matter the source. They are far from perfect - witness the sludge in the 1MZ engines. But the 3MZ was fine, and the 2GR had been used for a year or two in the Avalon (I think) before the Sienna moved to that engine.
The trans in mine is the older, more reliable U151E 5 speed, rather than Toyota's newer U660E 6 speed transmission, which only came to the Sienna in 2011.
So basically I chose a proven engine, proven transmission, and the most reliable minivan according to multiple sources (CR, TrueDelta).
Truth is the Sienna won my dollars on merit, though. It has the most horsepower combined with the best EPA mileage figures, and the most seats (8), and fits a 4'x8' sheet of plywood flat on the floor with the hatch closed (amazing - even a Suburban can't do that).
Basically, it's old-school Toyota, pre-cost cutting. More like Gary's Lexus than his newer Tundra, perhaps.
Perhaps the strongest argument for its reliability is the cost of an extended warranty - I can get a 7/100 for $700 something and have the complex power doors all covered. Soooo cheap.
Of the 3 cars in my fleet it's the biggest, yet insurance is the cheapest, too.
Based purely on merit - it is an EXCELLENT minivan and has exceeded my already high expectations.
NHTSA got 200 complaints from owners who had rear axles break in half on their Windstars. The front subframe is also under investigation.
Sounds familiar - similar to the Tundra rust issue, no?
So, does Ford:
A). Fix them all, front and rear.
C). Fix all front subframes only.
D). None of the above.
The answer is D. Ford is only recalling the rear axles, but just those in the snow belt states!
That means if you drive your Ford minivan in Florida, and it collapses, don't panic. Your Ford stock gained enough value to offset the cost of the rear axle breaking in half. You'll be fine, really.
I'll repeat, anyone think other automakers are different than Toyota?
Anyone who thinks I have a beef against Ford, I'm happy to share pics of my '91 Escort GT, or read my recent (positive) review of the Fiesta in the subcompacts thread.
Actually I don't have a Tundra based Sequoia. I have the old school 2007 Sequoia which I believe is better than the new ones based on the problematic Tundra chassis. Mine was the last year before toyota went real cheap. It is also a better choice in my opinion than the large SUVs offered by Ford and GM. Never considered a Chrysler SUV after renting a Durango for a week. And the price on the Sequoia was right. It still looks brand new and only has 22k miles after 3 years. They bring top dollar in prime condition.
So the Sequoia was and is a compromise. Just nothing any better in the price class. Maybe the Escalade? Wife hated the looks. I probably should have not gone cheap and bought the GL320 CDI I really wanted. I hate filling up the Sequoia every 350 miles. The GL diesel can easily go 600 miles on a tank of fuel. I could have gotten used to the strange transmission shifting. We just go through life making mistakes.
Don't we?!?
I certainly would make some different choices in the past, if I knew what I know today.Most would probably agree with that statement.
But then again, making mistakes is one way we learn what to NOT do again, isn't it? We just try to not make a mistake that we can't recover from... at least, we hope we can recover.
All cars will always have things break on them, and there is nothing that can be done about that.
You just hope that you get one that has fewer things going wrong on it.
Mechanically, engine-wise, my 2007 TCH has been bulletproof thus far, after 68K miles.
I stand corrected, my bad.