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How many HH's does Toyota sell?
Anyways, 10 thousand copies should be a cakewalk for GM, they should sell every one of them. And I'll follow that conclusion up with: They'll sell everyone who was sold on a Yukon or a Tahoe in the first place. Other than that, I highly doubt these things are going to make a huge impact in the market.
Why? Simple, gas prices are still high and people are aware that they are not going down significantly and most likely will climb even higher over the winter months. I'm sorry, if I am looking to save a buck or 2 in gas and I want to be environmentally conscious
I AM NOT BUYING A 4 TON SUV!!!
I also could not live with the shock factor of seeing triple digits come across the screen after every fillup. A friend of mine has a Suburban that costs over 100 dollars per fillup. That's gotta hurt after a while no matter how great 21mpg is.
This is where I see the HH and the RXh and the Ford hybrids are ahead of the game. Because those environmentally conscious "greenies", "eco-geeks", whatever we want to refer them as are probably not all loaded $$$-wise. And for less money a vehicle like those mentioned still provide 90% of the utility of the T/Y hybrids, significantly better mileage without the bulk.
Maybe I'm wrong but the people I know who are trying to "live green" do not fall in to the category of "excess" and would probably shout "Burn your SUV" long before actually buying one...
Whats the difference between and rebates aren;t they the same thing?
When it's reported that there are up to $6000 in incentives on the Tundra all of that is waived interest charges for finance customers but you are expected to pay full MSRP. If you bring your own financing or pay cash you don't get $6000 off the MSRP price you only get $2000 or $3000 cash rebate.
"Agreed on the Corolla. They are discounted as they should be in their last several months but overall the current MSRP is about $1000 higher than when this Gen first came out in Feb 2002. In effect even with a $1000 rebate they are still selling the Corolla at 'full sticker'."
Corolla's are selling for full sticker currently vs the 2003 model? I don;t know about that because it depends with the spread between new invoice(on a 2007 or 2008 model) and old MSRP is on the 2003 model would think anyay.
A tricky nuance that I threw in there. When a manufacturer sells a vehicle to a retailer it's at the 'wholesale' price... as far as the public is concerned. The dealer adds his costs and his markup and that becomes the MSRP. But the manufacturer doesn't benefit or get hurt by anything the dealer does. The dealers 'wholesale' price is actually the manufacturer's 'full sticker price'. An example:
When the Corolla first came out the base CE had an MSRP of about $15250 on the sticker. Toyota actually sold this vehicle to the dealer for about $13000. This was the full sticker price between Toyota and dealer. After that the dealer could sell it for whatever he/she wanted. Make money or lose money on it? It had no effect on Toyota because they already had their money from the dealer's bank.
5-1/2 yrs down the road the same Corolla is now invoiced to the dealer at $14000 and the dealer sees an MSRP on the window of $16500. The dealer can still sell it for whatever price makes the sale but again it has no effect on Toyota since they already have been paid $14000. But since the vehicle needs some oomph to keep sales going Toyota offers the buyer $500 - $1000 out of it's pocket.
Now that $14000 'full sticker' sale is still on the books between dealer and Toyota but when the retail sale is made Toyota reduces the net effective sale to $13000, which btw is the same price they originally were selling the vehicles to the dealer back in 2002.
Will Toyota slap a Scion badge on it and make it the next generation tC or they'll keep it as a Toyota? I personally see two scenarios for future Toyota sports car and sporty coupes:
Scenario 1:
- Small, light weight RWD coupe as the next gen Scion tC.
- Toyota will get only one coupe, it'll be more expensive and have better performance to differentiate from the small RWD coupe. This will be the rumored new Supra or FT-HS.
Scenario 2:
- The next gen tC remains FWD, sort of like an evolutionary version of the current tC.
- Toyota gets 2 coupes, one being the small coupe and the other as the new Supra or FT-HS. Both will be RWD.
I personally think what will happen is Scenario 1 but given a choice I'll choose Scenario 2. More options means more power to the buyers. Either way, if both (or 3) coupes are perfectly executed, the future looks bright over at Toyota's front.
Unfortunately, the part of your scenario with the next tC being a front drive evolution of the current car rather than an all new approach with a lightweight rear driver is probably correct as well
I have no doubt that the next Supra (or FT-HS) will ride on the IS platform so very likely it'll be Toyota's version of the future IS coupe. Whatever they do they should make this car as affordable as possible and don't mess around with any of those super car crap. The LF-A should be the only super car in Toyota's lineup.
No maker of Toyota's volume is even close in quality. Honda only has half the volume.
Toyota's vehicles may not be a diverse, but they are better vehicles, better values, more capable.
15 years ago, outside of Camry and Supra, Toyota didn't offere any product that was truly superior.
Now Rav4, Tacoma, Tundra, Avalon, Prius, Sienna have stepped up the level of play.
Toyota is bigger and better, but they've had to go through some minor growing pains.
I don't see Rome burning. They are now market leaders in value, as well as quality. They seem to know where there bread is buttered.
DrFill
Not to mention that IMHO the compact pick-up, later the Tacoma, has ALWAYS been a superior product (yes, including the '92 and all the early 90s). Lately, they have followed the traditional formula of bigger and more powerful perhaps to excess, as its fuel economy sucks (which may be why its sales are down so much - all the Tacoma buyers that wanted personal transportation got pushed by higher gas prices into something less costly to run), but it is still a great truck.
And in '92 they were still selling the old Cressida, which had come up quite a bit in price but was still nowhere near the price levels the Avalon has reached, and was a very nice cruiser for the money.
In 2002 and 2003 I rented Camrys and Corollas that had so many rattles and squeaks it was a shame for the company. Nowhere near average quality? I dunno.....it was certainly much less than I expected from Toyota. My '03 Matrix was the same way, it was back to the shop under warranty three times in the first few months for various items. My friends have an '05 Sienna in which a large number of interior panels feel loose or squeaky, the whole thing just feels fragile. They are not the types to notice stuff like that and have been quite pleased with it, and I find it to be a very pleasant vehicle to ride in, and never too slow to drive as Toyota minivans of old were, but in terms of build quality it is lacking IMO.
Those were the bad years of the early to mid-00s at Toyota. We will see if they turn it around. I know they probably CAN, but it will mean a huge investment in time and energy, not to mention some investment of those huge profits they are reaping now. Will they commit? They say they will. We will see.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I just sold a 2002 4Runner tonight to a guy who still has the 1992 Toyota Pickup he bought new.
It has 250,000 miles on it and has had only four serious problems on it.
New head gasket a few months ago.
Three mufflers which considering how much salt gets used around here that is decent. The bed is starting to rust pretty bad but that is because he had an after market soft tonneau cover put on it years ago and where the snaps attached to the bed it is rusting. Drop a new bed on the truck and it will be perfect again.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess you missed my "diverse" line-up comment. :sick:
The Celiac All-Trac was ahead of it's time, but was somewhat overweight. I don't remember any stampedes, or many used examples available.
The MR2 was a class of one, so superior to what exactly?
Toyota had 3-4 great years for sports cars, but it was more of an aborration (sic) than anything else.
But I miss the golden days.
DrFill
And I don't believe I missed what you said, it was exactly this:
15 years ago they had no superior products outside Camry and Supra.
You did also say they did not have a diverse line-up, but I think they did - they sold a minivan, two different trucks, seven different cars including three sporty models, and 2 SUVs. In fact, it was eight different car models if you include the Tercel-based Paseo as a separate model (it had a different name and shape, but it was mechanically a Tercel). I call that diverse. They have half as many car models today if you don't include the Scions. They have transferred their "diversity" to crossovers and trucks. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They are a better run company now, not producing unpopular things like Previa, Paseo, Tercel, or T100.
I was kinda hoping their success with the middle of the market would give them room to attack the enthusiast fringe, but they're playing tight, and investing in hybrids, foreign markets, and protecting their quality advantage.
Toyota, to remain on top, has a full plate, getting Hybrids into the mainstream, then improving them with IOn batteries, making sure they continue producing top ICE for their core audience, and then having diesels ready in case they do take off here in the States, which is not a given. :confuse:
DrFill
I guess if the domestics can't beat 'em, they'll buy 'em!
At some point, Toyota will show the effects of these departures.
Scion could use a fresh perspective, doh. :surprise:
DrFill
That car is a disgrace of the Lexus brand. Drives good though.
I thought the redesign would leave us with a container of Jello Pudding! :surprise:
DrFill
I am still amazed that I find myself driving a Lexus, this will never happen 2 years ago, back then I had Lexus and Buick in the same category...
The face has a lot of LS cues, doh.
They swung, and missed, with the GS. So, hopefully, help is on the way.
DrFill
As for the LX, I wouldn't call it a mild redesign since it has brand new everything including the awesome 5.7L V8. It is, however, a conservative redesign and I just don't see much L-finesse in it. I agree the face has a lot of LS cues though.
Why three?
Long shop visit or multiple visits? Did the other two ES350s break down?
First one - 15,000 mile service.
Second one - Rattle and inside rear view mirror replaced.
Third one - Front brakes replaced.
I was hoping to get a RX so I can see what all the hypes are about but unfortunately I got ES for all 3 visits.
I guess it rides comfortable on highway like the ES does.
If she's legit, I'm available.
DrFill
You got the dirty part right anyway! You get partial credit.
DrFill
Funny this should come up...
Our receptionist, the one with the 600 hp supra, who really knows how to drive as she campaigns her car in several racing series and is going to SEMA this year asked me what I knew about the IS-F today.
She was all excited about it because she was going to get to drive it at SEMA till I told her it was automatic only. Now she is thinking of taking her name off the list of drivers as it would be pointless.
She was so excited about the IS-F she was thinking about selling her Supra when it comes out. She will probably still drive it just to see how hard her Supra will crush it.
The shifting in the IS-F is not as fast as Audi's DSG but it's probably faster than 95% people could ever shift. I tested it on a dyno, it was amazing.
Doesn't matter to her a slushbox equipped torque converter car is not a real performance vehicle.
How are you supposed to get excited about an automatic equipped 400ish hp V8 sedan when you drive a 600 hp twin turbo 6 speed manual coupe to work more then half the time.
Is her face on Mt. Rushmore yet? They could use a woman over there.
No justice, no peace! :mad:
DrFill
Again, not just the IS-F. I've said this over and over, if one wants to knock on the IS-F please do so to the C63 as well. Can't really see the difference between the two. Never mind, I got one: price.
Maybe the recent brain drain will actually open the way to a "roots expedition" - Farley and Press, as good as they were for maximizing volume and profits while "catering to the American market", oversaw the total Toyota stampede to the middle market, the dumbing down of Toyota.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The only current production AMG product I would get is a E63 wagon. There are only a couple of mid sized automatic equipped sedans I like.
For the older ones a C36, C43 or C32 would be neat. For the same amount of money I would rather have a 1997 XJR.
I think the IS-F will give C63 a run for its money though, given that it should undercut in pricing significantly.
Just because something is new does not make it better.
Of course.
But being the first C that gets the full AMG treatment makes it special. Also, being the first C-class AMG that can seriously challenge the M3 makes it better IMO.
I guess I am different than you. If I am getting this type of factory tuner sedans then I want it to be easily differentiate from other regular models. Otherwise I'll just get a 335i, C350 or IS350.
They only made a few hundred of them for the US market so it is pretty rare. Fintail I am sure knows the exact numbers. It was less then 500 I think.
All these make it a more legit factory tuner car and better competitor to the segment benchmark - M3.
The first of those (C-class, anyway) was the 190E 3.2 AMG.
There was once a time when AMG was meant to be a 'sleeper' car - the unwashed would be pressed to tell it from a normal car, only some trim and wheels to really make it look different. They were also meant to be rare/eclusive. Now they are much more common and much easier to distinguish. That isn't a positive in my eyes, no matter that new ones have much greater performance.
Exactly what I think as well.
DrFill
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
DrFill