So, have you or haven't you ridden in or driven one? It is without question quieter than my co-workers '05 Civic on the highway (even my Ford loving, GM-bashing third coworker told me that without my prodding, although I agree), and compared to the Civic guy's '08 Matrix, it has much-less road noise and the engine is not nearly as 'buzzy'. Again, I thought I'd be a gentleman and not say anything, but my Ford buddy brought it up. We routinely drive practically the entire PA Turnpike and take turns.
Bill P.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Yes, buying American has changed drastically when it comes to cars. They all just about abandoned cars for DECADES. Sure the competition blew their doors off.
Let's see if Ford can now turn it around. With a mountain of debt and the UAW, it isn't a done deal in the least but it's a great start. I finally saw a new Taurus on the road. What a difference form the old version. Also, the Mustang is quite a success story for them.
GM has a huge mountain ahead of them. If Toyota hadn't blown the recall with GM-Like response, GM would be in BIG TROUBLE. Now they will surely gain some sales in 2010.
AFAIC, until ALL DEBT IS PAID BACK, GM IS STILL BANKRUPT and I don't buy cars from a company that refused to admit they failed and came crying to the US Taxpayers for help. Period, the END!
Buying American specifically means only FORD at the moment....
yes you are correct, I have a 08 TL and it was made in Ohio!!! just to correct something tlong said, the 3rd Gen TL was from 04-08 not 09, the fourth gen TL is 09-current
I'm glad I got my 3rd gen when I did because now the TL is huge!! and I tried, I really tried, but I just can't warm up to the new Acura corporate shield grill, just so ugly!! I even waited to see the car in person a few times but the thing just smacks you in the face when you look at it!! its similar to how I feel about the fusion! I love the exterior but there is just way to much cheap imitation chrome in that front grill! hits you like a brick wall when you look at it, other then the exterior is pretty nice!! just my 2 cents!
"For someone to make that statement is exactly what I was referencing"
Hey TEX I agree with you about GM. I bought a new 1984 Firebird when I was 19 years old. It took every penny I had to pay for that thing. I took it back 30 times in the first 5000 miles to fix a problem with the transmission then they told me there was no fix for the 84 model but the engineers redesigned the 85 Firebirds transmission. I told them to give me a 85 model and the dealer said ok but we won't be able to give you much for trade in on your car. (before the lemon law) I told them that I would never buy GM again and I haven't in 26 years. My point was that alot of Toyota's reputation is that you buy a toyota and just drive it for 150,000 miles with nothing breaking and its just not true. They have issue's just like GM but just might be better at covering it up (at least till now)
yes you are correct, I have a 08 TL and it was made in Ohio!!! just to correct something tlong said, the 3rd Gen TL was from 04-08 not 09, the fourth gen TL is 09-current
You are correct, sorry about that error. I guess it's because there are so few '09's on the road. :P
I don't like the direction Honda or Acura are going, design-wise. But most of them are made in the US! I saw it put best on another forum: "No more Hondas - they lost their mojo!".
HA5, I did buy a Toyota last year. I will say that while Toyota manages the distribution network tightly to keep it 'healthy' their 12 regional distributors create overhead costs that limit the dealer from being able to negotiate well. In other industries we call them margin sucking leaches. My distributor is gulf states and they handle 6? states. The buying experience with Toyota I found to be challenging because of this distributor network. I did find my experience buying cars with GM, Ford and Honda better. The Toyota dealers never learned the first thing of selling a car -- under promise and over deliver. My verdict is still out as to whether I am pleased with the car. It ultimately came down to the Lincoln MKX or the Toyota Highlander. The highlander won out because of the rear seating of the lincoln was poor for 3 people.. The Ford/Lincoln interior trim is far superior to Toyota's The car was for the wife and she appears happy... Which we all know is extremely important.
How could it be a good thing that Honda gets a tax abatement of over 100 million dollars to let Americans do starter jobs, while after paying their white collar workforce back home in Japan very nicely to create all the things they sell us, they still have 1.7 billion in after tax profits in just the second quarter? We obviously don't want a future here for our children other than as assemblers for Honda, based on their rate of sales increases and our big 3's losses. I don't care how impressive the Honda is, It is not the answer to our countries problems. An individual? Only if they don't want to contribute to the country as a whole.
What are you really trying to say here? You know darn well that a US built Honda employs more people in the US than a Mexican Fusion. Are you talking about American cars, or US nameplates? Is this a claim that we should only want UAW-built cars?
Seems to me that the "high quality UAW jobs" are declining rapidly, largely due to the UAW demanding salaries and benefits that are not reasonable given the skill level of the work. That certainly drives jobs overseas and it anti-American.
I don't know why we would not support ANY vehicle built in the US. Honda is certainly building a lot of them here. Would you rather they import all of their vehicles? Or are you just pushing for isolationism, with all of our choices being only from GM, C, or F?
Do you really think that GM or F would have the quality levels they have today if we had never had T or H cars being sold here?
Needed car for high school son. Looked around. I test drove a Cobalt and it had a heavier feeling ride than I expected. Good feel to electronic steering. Decent seats with lumbar adjustment--not leSabre Limited or Park Avenue quite, but support in all the right places for my height. Since I'll have the car a year when he's off to college, I picked what felt good to me. He didn't care. Black LT2 with alloy wheels. Looks nice.
Built in Ohio (Lordstown) US parts primarily. Lots better than a Civic sending money back to Japan. Helped jobs here instead of tokyo.
If Mama ain't happy then aint nobody happy Hey I bought an 08 Tacoma double cab even though the possibility of rust and other troubles. I am happy with it so far the only complaint is the transmission shifts hard. Until Ford builds a 5 passenger pickup that fits in my Garage I will stay with this. Cya TEX
you anti-japanese rant about the money that goes back to that country is getting old! I have a TL built in Marysville, OH with almost 50% US parts but just because Acura is HQed in Japan and Japan gets a little more benefit from my purchase then say an American auto manufacturer they are still contributing to the US economy to a good extent!! this idea that if you buy a Japanese car all the money goes back to Japan is so ridiculous and lacks any logic or reasoning to it!!
do you really think all your money for your Cobalt is all (100%) going to Detroit? come on, some of the money from your Cobalt purchase is going to Mexico, Canada, Korea, and China so that GM can pay those plants, their workers, their parts manufacturing companies, foreign economy, etc
whether you buy a American, Korean, or Japanese car made and assembled in the US, the money is not all going to the country of origin, their is a heterogeneous dispersion of your money to several different countries!
I don't understand why you would want to denigrate your fellow Americans who buy or lease Japanese, Korean, or German made vehicles that are built here in the US, who are supporting the US economy? is it because a couple thousand dollars more goes to Japan and not the US economy? I just don't get it? we are supporting the American economy just as you are with your GM product purchase!
now if your talking about a Lexus or other foreign vehicle 100% made and built in Japan, Korea, or Germany, etc then that is another story and I would have to agree with you then but I've got two Japanese vehicles assembled in this country with almost 50% US parts!
well I can't argue with that, he does tend to do that! you got to just ignore people who deliberately post something like that to get people heated up in hopes they'll respond when they are angry :mad: and make them look bad!
now you know how I feel, when anti-japanese people come on the Toyota forums or other japanese forums and because of the recent recalls with Toyota paints the entire Japanese auto industry w/a broad brush, (to coin your term), which is also unfair
not on this forum but one or two others I've had people come on an excuse me and others of being anti-American and non-American because I've bought japanese vehicles and that I don't support the US and our economy because all the money goes back to Japan and nothing for the US :confuse:
one car I have was made in Ohio with almost 50% US parts while the other in Tenn with almost 50% US parts so a good chunk of my money went to paying US assembly plants, US production workers, US companies that made those parts, etc! it all didn't go back to Japan :shades:
you would think people such as yourself, and others, who currently have GM, Ford, or Chrysler products would be more understanding and really feel pity for Toyota and its consumer base because of the not to long ago and very similar problems and troubles GM, Ford, and Chrysler had which got them into hot water requiring billions in loans, bailouts, and bankruptcy's
Road noise in the Mazda 3 is horrible in comparison to the Cobalt, which has 94% of the size and weight of an Accord for 80% of the cost. Getting out of the back seat of a Mazda 3 is like wisdom tooth extraction.
Your perceptions are about as biased as they get on here.
If the US Auto industry doesn't like broad brush strokes, perhaps they should have thought of that when they were busy screwing over their former customers.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
"......now you know how I feel, when anti-japanese people come on the Toyota forums or other japanese forums and because of the recent recalls with Toyota paints the entire Japanese auto industry w/a broad brush, (to coin your term), which is also unfair "
And you'll notice I have no posts there. That is their problem, not mine ( I am far more concerned with the guy who bought a 2010 LaCrosse that is now sitting at the dealer dead). Although, I have been THOROUGHLY enjoying this mess the Toy is in.
I do feel as though there is some merit to the argument about the money going back to Japan. In this case that money is going into the pocket of Mr. Toyoda, the same Mr. Toyoda who may very well duck out of the Congressional hearings. If this had happened to Ford, no doubt Alan Mullaly AND Bill Ford would be getting hammered in DC next week. Mr. Toyoda will be on his little island next week.
>I do feel as though there is some merit to the argument about the money going back to Japan. In this case that money is going into the pocket of Mr. Toyoda, the same Mr. Toyoda who may very well duck out of the Congressional hearings. If this had happened to Ford, no doubt Alan Mullaly AND Bill Ford would be getting hammered in DC next week. Mr. Toyoda will be on his little island next week.
We can all picture what would happen if Mullaly said, "I'm not coming. Have a nice day while our Fords have a major problem(s)." Can't you hear the next things coming out of the various government offices about having to be there because they're a US car company!"
I can hear it now. But toyoda will stay in Japan rather than face the music.
your right you haven't done that, I should have pointed that out in my post!
well I do see your point to an extent about the money; since I'm American and love this country, when I get a japanese vehicle I try to get one built and assembled here, that way, more of money is going to support American interest rather than if I had bought a japanese vehicle, for example, a ES350, which is made 100% in Japan where virtually no money benefits the US; I was quite annoyed as you were when I heard today that Mr. Toyoda was not coming to the Congressional hearings; that is OUTRAGEOUS :mad: !!!
you are right, he should be there taking the heat for Toyota's problems and mistakes just as the three CEOs of GM, Ford, and Chrysler were a little over a year ago!!
he's got some nerve not showing his face; just another example of rich Wall Street like superiority and arrogance, unfortunately Mr. Toyoda is not soley alone in this regard, but almost any rich CEO in any industry thinks they are entitled to do what ever they want at the expensive of everyone below them; its just like these banks and mortgage companies who paid back their bailout loans as quick as possible to the Fed gov't so that they could turn right around and give their CEO's and top level management millions of dollars in bonuses despite the fact it was you and I working our butts off and paying our taxes which allowed them to keep their companies let alone their jobs and they seemed to forget that as quick as the wind blew by
ewhhh, just thinking about it makes me so mad :mad: greedy and arrogant CEOs (ie Mr. Toyoda) are the scum of the Earth, they really are!! they are a disgrace to their companies and employees who bear the brunt of the problems, complaints, etc who get no thanks for what they put up with!
".....I was quite annoyed as you were when I heard today that Mr. Toyoda was not coming to the Congressional hearings; "
See, it's that mentality that makes the whole "Made In USA" by the foreign companies ring a little hollow to me. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate them being here (it IS good business), but I do feel that to a certain extent that the only reason they do it is to allow people to not feel guilty about spending so much money on a product that would otherwise be imported.
The companies started building plants here to avoid a tariff, do I recall correctly?
With the dollar value having been so low the cost of importing cars is higher, so the companies that might have lowered production here and increased it at home to increase profits when the dollar is higher, couldn't do so as a way of keeping the production and jobs at home.
well, I don't personally feel that is the reason why the Japanese have a good chunk of their product lines made in the US! I think the real reason is, as you pointed out its good business! When it comes down to it, the car companies are nothing more then a big business that are only out to make money at the end of the day! That being the case, its much much cheaper for them to make them here, that goes for the Korean's and German's who have auto plants in the US as well! With how weak the American dollar is they are saving a ton of money by having their products built and assembled here let alone have almost half the car made with American parts! it all comes down to costs, plus they are saving a lot of money on transportation costs by not having to ship all those cars over on boats!
I feel the same way you do of "Made in the USA" but with GM; I mean Ford has a couple of models made outside the country but GM makes about 40% of their product line outside the US; why is the Camaro, an American legend, built and assembled in Canada? why is an American staple like that not "Made in the USA"? the logic of that decision escapes me completely :confuse:
GM has begun to use a lot of Chinese and Korean companies for parts which they import to their vehicles so this idea that American car companies automatically are "Made in USA" is starting to erode in its own regard!
Its becoming more and more difficult year after year finding cars that don't have some foreign component, whether that be parts or country of assembly, NO MATTER what car manufacturer!
Another great example is the Ford Fusion, why is the new face of Ford, the Fusion, built and assembled in Mexico? how does that show American's build great American cars in the US of A? if you are suppose to have turned your companies around and American vehicles are going to compete with the foreign makes then why can't all your product line be assembled here? that why the "Made in USA" slogan by domestic companies rings a little hollow for me when they criticize the Japanese companies for doing the same thing they do, expand their big business globally by building some of their products in other countries
and that makes sense for them to do when your dealing with capitalism in a global market place
you can't criticize the Japanese companies for doing good business and cutting cost down by having plants in other countries when your doing the same thing to save money and produce American cars in Canada, Mexico, Korea, and China etc!
Buying products and services from overseas does nothing to secure this countries financial stability or yours or our future generations. We have sent so many of our jobs and so much of our wealth overseas over the last 10-20 years. Expect unemployment to be 8 percent or more as the new norm here in the U.S.
Road noise in the Mazda 3 is horrible in comparison to the Cobalt, which has 94% of the size and weight of an Accord for 80% of the cost. Getting out of the back seat of a Mazda 3 is like wisdom tooth extraction.
Your perceptions are about as biased as they get on here.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My perceptions are echoed by almost all reviews of smaller cars - care to list one where the Cobalt came out ahead of the Mazda 3?
I like handling. If somebody wants isolation then look at a Corolla vs. the Cobalt. The point is that the Cobalt is one of the worst cars in its class vs. competitors. About the only place it excels is that it is an American nameplate. Hopefully the Cruze is better.
The companies started building plants here to avoid a tariff, do I recall correctly?
As I recall you are correct. The US auto makers were upset at the Japanese competition in the '80's and wanted quotas. The Japanese agreed to voluntary import quotas. However the real problem was that US citizens wanted those cars, so the Japanese companies built plants here to get around the US makers' quotas, also supported by the UAW. Once the Japanese nameplates had quotas put on them, they also started building higher content cars since they could charge more. So today's situation is largely caused by the US automakers and the UAW.
Another example of the law of unintended consequences. The real problem was that the US products were weak. Trying artificial protections backfired in the long run.
I like handling. If somebody wants isolation then look at a Corolla vs. the Cobalt. The point is that the Cobalt is one of the worst cars in its class vs. competitors. About the only place it excels is that it is an American nameplate. Hopefully the Cruze is better.
Again, it's all about perception, unfortunately. I can honestly say that if you rode 300 miles in a Cobalt XFE and rode back in a Matrix, there is absolutely no way you would not be able to say that the Cobalt is quieter, and that it has absolutely more luggage capacity. But that wouldn't be the conventional wisdom that's out there.
Bill
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
>e Japanese companies built plants here to get around the US makers' quotas
That sounds familiar. I still think there were tariffs in there somewhere to protect the US automakers (and as you say, the UAW) from dumping of foreign product.
>real problem was that the US products were weak.
That is true.
>artificial protections backfired in the long run.
Seems to work for foreign countries who wish to keep out US products.
The point is that the Cobalt is one of the worst cars in its class vs. competitors. About the only place it excels is that it is an American nameplate. Hopefully the Cruze is better.
I don't have much experience with the current crop of small cars, other than sitting in them for a few minutes at auto shows, but I can think of one area where the Cobalt excels...front seat room. The seat goes back far enough and the steering wheel and pedals are in a decent enough position for me to be comfortable. Now the back seat is cramped, but up front at least, it feels like a bigger car than it is.
Now if you want a small, lightweight feeling, maybe that's not a good thing. But I don't like a tight, closed-in feeling. I guess it just comes from driving mainly mid- and full-sized cars all my life, but I actually felt comfortable behind the wheel of a Cobalt. The Focus, Civic, Sentra, and Corolla all felt tighter inside to me. Can't remember the Mazda 3 though.
>artificial protections backfired in the long run.
Seems to work for foreign countries who wish to keep out US products.
Not so sure about that. The US is still the top economy in the world. We have generally been the least protectionist in trade. Other companies that are more protectionist are doing worse. Japan has been stagnant for over a decade.
The root of a lot of the disagreements on the value of American vs. foreign nameplates seems to boil down to the following. Is the US made stronger by staying open and encouraging competition? Or is the US better in the long run by protecting industries and providing high-paying jobs that might not be sustainable in a more open situation?
Obviously some of us believe one way and others believe the other. My own viewpoint is that if you try to artificially constrain markets, regardless of what your competitors do, then you are going to hurt this country and any benefits of the protectionism will be unsustainable. IMHO the best way to ensure a strong US is to stay open and compete like hell. That's not what many of the pro-union and pro-US nameplate posters believe. I respect those points of view. I think we all want the US to be successful, it is just about how we do that.
".....I feel the same way you do of "Made in the USA" but with GM; I mean Ford has a couple of models made outside the country but GM makes about 40% of their product line outside the US; why is the Camaro, an American legend, built and assembled in Canada? why is an American staple like that not "Made in the USA"? the logic of that decision escapes me completely "
I will say, I'm not crazy about vehcles made in Canada that are sold here either. I do, however, justify it with the fact that the Canadians buy those vehicles, too. They have for 100 years. There was one Canadian car company from about 1903 to 1950 or so. It was called McLaughlin. They basically were Buicks built and sold in Canada. The Camaro is sold and bought in Canada. I take solace in that.
It bothers me more that cars built here aren't exported to other countries for sale as much as they are imported for sale here than it does cars built in Canada for sale here.
well I think most of that is true, I just wish the Camaro was made here like the Mustang and Corvette - if I'm buying a sports car with a American history I really want it made here but hopefully they will switch it back to the US at some point! keep your fingers crossed
well just keep in mind, that a lot of the reason why not as much domestic cars are exported to other countries is because of the long lasting tarnished reputation for poor quality, reliability, and customer service GM, Ford, and Chrysler had for over 20 years; plus, for the last 15 years, the world has seen that more and more American's bought Japanese, Korean, and German vehicles year after year, allowing for instance Toyota to take the number 1 spot the last two years, which obviously they are going to lose now after recent events :P all these factors I just mentioned gave many European, Asian, and other foreign markets great pause from importing GM, Ford, and Chrysler products into their countries
its going to take years of consistent good quality, LONG TERM reliability, and increasing sales that either beat or at least are pretty close to Japanese, Korean, and German competition for the world to become more opened to accepting Ford and GM vehicles in their countries - I could be wrong, because it is just my opinion, but I really don't think Chrysler is going to make it! they still are really struggling post bankruptcy unlike GM which has at the very least showed some signs of progress and improvements! the problem is, Ford and GM have only recently begun a positive upward trend with their companies, I mean it hasn't even been a full year yet since restructuring and bankruptcy so it is still a relatively fresh change for the American auto companies and things are going to take time!
we are going to have to wait another 3-4 years when the current redesigned GM and Ford products are about 6-8 years old and well get to finally see if their long-term reliability can hold up against the Japanese benchmark and so far, there is some good indications that it will and if it does both Ford and GM will be back in business as both reputable, good quality, reliable and great auto manufactures that can give the Japanese, Korean, and German companies a good run for their money! and that is the way it should be in this global capitalist market, competition is good! it really benefits us when we consumers go in to buy and look at cars to get these different car companies bidding against each other for our business because competition is so tight!!
people just have to realize that the changes made at Ford and GM were so extensive, in context of automotive history, that things are not just going to change in 1 or 2 years, they have to be patient and wait till both companies have a few years under their belt post restructuring, loans, and bankruptcy to see how their newly managed/structured companies operate and get all the little kinks out!!!
"......well just keep in mind, that a lot of the reason why not as much domestic cars are exported to other countries is because of the long lasting tarnished reputation for poor quality, reliability, and customer service GM, Ford, and Chrysler had for over 20 years;"
I think that the bigger issue than quality and reliability is that the traditional American auto wasn't compatible with the right hand drive countries, or the small roads of old Europe, or the traditionally higher gas prices in other parts of the world (imagine running a '70 Electra 225 day after day with $6/gal gas). GM and Ford have always had a presence in Europe and Austrailia.
The big elephant in the room has always been the Asians. Buick has been well respected in China for 80 years. But any company doing business there MUST partner up w/ a Chinese company. Could you imagine a rule like that here?
No matter what the American's quality and dependibility is like, we will never know how well they will be received unless we are allowed to sell cars in those countries like they are allowed to sell theirs here.
I only stated one of the reasons why I think some countries have been hestiant to import domestic made vehicle to their countries and their are many more, several of which you just pointed out and there are others!!
Also, business being business, I imagine it costs alot to convert some of these cars that were made for our market to RHD. And you have to question if it's worth it if the deck is stacked against you.
I have a 1929 Buick that I am trying to restore. That car is so simple, It's easy to see a RHD conversion. Just install the steering column and pedals on the other side. You could leave the guages right where they are.
That's the problem. Our US trade reps should have gone running to the WTO when Japan excluded US cars, but they didn't. That is the philosophy that has killed American manufactured products. We as the world's biggest customer (but soon to end) allowed it to continue for decades. We failed to use our market position to our advantage and to demand equal trading and a level playing field.
The US companies such as GM didn't have the necessary inventory on hand when the program began. The program should have been coordinated with US manufacturers. The shortage meant that Americans bought Korean or Japanese. Another example of incompetence at GM and Chrysler and between US government.
>The big elephant in the room has always been the Asians. Buick has been well respected in China for 80 years. But any company doing business there MUST partner up w/ a Chinese company. Could you imagine a rule like that here?
Can we imagine a rule like that for companies wishing to sell inside the US.
But somehow it's tolerated for us to sell into restrictions in other countries.
>US companies such as GM didn't have the necessary inventory on hand when the program began.
But the US companies have been totally criticized in every way and need to keep their speculation build of cars low to minimize costs. Large stocks on dealer's lots mean larger discounts to move the cars in most cases. So staying lean on build was necessary.
The rules should have been totally for US cars to be bought.
Again, it's all about perception, unfortunately. I can honestly say that if you rode 300 miles in a Cobalt XFE and rode back in a Matrix, there is absolutely no way you would not be able to say that the Cobalt is quieter, and that it has absolutely more luggage capacity. But that wouldn't be the conventional wisdom that's out there.
Edmund's says the Matrix has 19.8cu ft of storage vs. 13.9 for the Cobalt. In any event, you should compare the Corolla sedan to the Cobalt as a more appropriate apples to apples set of vehicles.
Where do people come up with this stuff? Everyone was pretty well still bloated with inventory because new cars weren't selling before C4C. Our Dodge/Chrysler dealers still had new 2008s on the lot.
Lots of dealers still had new 2008s on the lot. The manufactures and dealers were doing everything they could to sell off inventory and they couldn't. There was plenty of inventory out there. People bought Japanese and Korean cars because that is what the market looks like. Market share didn't really change much for C4C. It stayed about the same as it was except that brands with more fuel efficient cars got more sales. Chrysler unfortunately doesn't have many fuel efficient models.
Eight of the top 10 cars bought during C4C were from US automakers. Even the cars that were bought from Japanese or Korean auto brands were most likely built in the US anyway. Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have large plants here.
You don't understand how the EPA categorizes vehicles and that is why that list is incorrect. If you go to fuel economy.gov it shows cars with different drive trains as separate models since they get drastically different mileage figures. Cars that are avaliable in 2WD and 4WD or AWD or Hybrid and trucks show up as multiple models.
just for example You have the 2WD escape, 4wd escape and hybrid versions of each.
If you pool all of those versions together the Escape is the number one selling car not the focus.
For example, the Ford Escape is available in six different versions including two- and four-wheel drive and hybrid versions. The government counts each version as a different vehicle using guidelines from the Environmental Protection Agency. Only the front wheel drive, non-hybrid version made the government's top ten list.
The Ford Escape crossover SUV, instead of being the seventh-most popular vehicle under the program, as the government ranked it, was actually the best seller, according to Edmunds.com. The government pegged the Ford Focus as the top seller.
Sales of truck models would tend to be heavily diluted using the government's method because practically each version counts as a different vehicle. The difference in tallying methods would not affect the overall totals of trucks, as opposed to cars purchased under the program, only the sales rankings of individual models.
Sales of GM's Silverado truck, under the government's counting method, were divided among five different versions. So were the Ford F-150s. If the different versions of these trucks were considered the same vehicle, as auto sales are normally reported, sales of these trucks would look much heftier.
Anyone who has experience for how the EPA categorizes vehicles could see something like this happening as the program was on going. The way the EPA sets up model distinctions is not the way models are actually differentiated by the manufactures or the public.
Rank Vehicle Includes Includes 4WD Includes Hybrid 1 Ford Escape Yes Yes 2 Ford Focus No No 3 Jeep Patriot Yes No 4 Dodge Caliber Yes No 5 Ford F-150 Yes No 6 Honda Civic No Yes 7 Chevrolet Silverado Yes Yes 8 Chevrolet Cobalt No No 9 Toyota Corolla No No 10 Ford Fusion Yes Yes
Regardless of the slicing and dicing, foreign makes did better. Period, the end. You were in the ballpark when you stated that U.S. origin vehicles did well. In fact, 48.5% were of U.S. origin sold in the C4C program.
Domestics claimed a decent share of the new vehicle sales generated by the program as well. The Detroit News notes, "Detroit's automakers accounted for 47 percent of the first 80,000 ‘Cash for Clunkers' sales, the Obama administration said today...which is above their overall share in the auto market of about 45 percent." The top-selling vehicle under the program so far is the Ford Focus. "Four of the top 10-selling vehicles are manufactured by Detroit's Big Three. Of non-Big Three purchases, the Transportation Department's preliminary analysis suggests that more than half of these new vehicles were manufactured in the United States."
The official government site, car.gov, shows that foreign makes garnered 63.1% of invoices ($2.446B Total) during the C4C program. It doesn't matter how the EPA dissects the info. Sales are the bottom line at the end of the day.
Even more telling, afaic, are the makes traded in, by manufacturer, where 86.6% were U.S. makes. The rules were skewed to gas mileage and that's were the U.S. falls short and the Asians rule.
Here is the updated reports to date at the official site
For the domestic market why is the notion of unfair trade part of the discussion. Generally Ford and GM are cheaper than Toyota and Honda..yet the consumer sees better value (sweeping stereotype) for the product lines. If someone buys a Toyota they will pay 10-15% more than the comperable GM product. That is because most people expect that if they own the GM product they will spend 10-15% in 'quality repairs' and have higher depreciation. If the American automakers want to be successful domestically they have to put a better product together and quit whining to the American public. The international battles they should fight seperately. The US manufacturers sold their 'typical' market share on the C4C. If they had more inventory on hand when it started then they would have had more inventory on hand when it was done. People weren't waiting inline to buy big 3 cars/trucks. As edmunds stated there were only 125K worth of cars that were sold due to the C4C. As a taxpayer, shareholder and owner I am tired of the big 3's excuses for not putting out a good value to the consumer. Pick an excuse: the labor is cheaper, their steel is cheaper, they can ship cars across the world and absorb the cost and be cheaper, their product is better quality, their management is more forward thinking, their labor is more forward thinking and my dog ate my homework. The US is a global economy we ship goods and services all over the world. Everytime someone from the big three complain about competition makes more consumers go to the competition..
Well of course foreign makes did better. I am not sure what we are arguing about.
The foreign makes have more fuel efficient models then the domestic brands, Chrysler being the worst offender there, so they would have gotten the biggest chunk of the C4C pie. They have a larger market share of the US market.
Just totalling up the sales numbers from here the domestics have about 46.2 percent of the market last year. That is of course down from 2008 or 2007 because Chrysler and GM kind of imploded. Kia, Hyundai and to a much smaller extent Subaru took a lot of that market share. The J3 makes took a little too but they were down as well.
Hyundai and Kia combined nearly outsold Nissan/Infiniti. I would be surprised that if Hyundai really puts on the moves in the next 18 months that they do outsell Nissan/Infiniti and maybe Chrysler group too. Chrysler is going to keep dropping till Fiat gets their new models in the pipeline and Hyundai has some more new models coming out on both the high and low end of the price range that are going to really push up their sales.
Comments
Bill P.
I paid cash for the car and never, ever buy an extended warranty, so $11,900 less $2,000 in GM card savings is what I paid.
Bill P.
Let's see if Ford can now turn it around. With a mountain of debt and the UAW, it isn't a done deal in the least but it's a great start. I finally saw a new Taurus on the road. What a difference form the old version. Also, the Mustang is quite a success story for them.
GM has a huge mountain ahead of them. If Toyota hadn't blown the recall with GM-Like response, GM would be in BIG TROUBLE. Now they will surely gain some sales in 2010.
AFAIC, until ALL DEBT IS PAID BACK, GM IS STILL BANKRUPT and I don't buy cars from a company that refused to admit they failed and came crying to the US Taxpayers for help. Period, the END!
Buying American specifically means only FORD at the moment....
Regards,
OW
I'm glad I got my 3rd gen when I did because now the TL is huge!! and I tried, I really tried, but I just can't warm up to the new Acura corporate shield grill, just so ugly!! I even waited to see the car in person a few times but the thing just smacks you in the face when you look at it!! its similar to how I feel about the fusion! I love the exterior but there is just way to much cheap imitation chrome in that front grill! hits you like a brick wall when you look at it, other then the exterior is pretty nice!! just my 2 cents!
Hey TEX I agree with you about GM. I bought a new 1984 Firebird when I was 19 years old. It took every penny I had to pay for that thing. I took it back 30 times in the first 5000 miles to fix a problem with the transmission then they told me there was no fix for the 84 model but the engineers redesigned the 85 Firebirds transmission. I told them to give me a 85 model and the dealer said ok but we won't be able to give you much for trade in on your car. (before the lemon law) I told them that I would never buy GM again and I haven't in 26 years. My point was that alot of Toyota's reputation is that you buy a toyota and just drive it for 150,000 miles with nothing breaking and its just not true. They have issue's just like GM but just might be better at covering it up (at least till now)
You are correct, sorry about that error. I guess it's because there are so few '09's on the road. :P
I don't like the direction Honda or Acura are going, design-wise. But most of them are made in the US! I saw it put best on another forum: "No more Hondas - they lost their mojo!".
We obviously don't want a future here for our children other than as assemblers for Honda, based on their rate of sales increases and our big 3's losses.
I don't care how impressive the Honda is, It is not the answer to our countries problems. An individual? Only if they don't want to contribute to the country as a whole.
What are you really trying to say here? You know darn well that a US built Honda employs more people in the US than a Mexican Fusion. Are you talking about American cars, or US nameplates? Is this a claim that we should only want UAW-built cars?
Seems to me that the "high quality UAW jobs" are declining rapidly, largely due to the UAW demanding salaries and benefits that are not reasonable given the skill level of the work. That certainly drives jobs overseas and it anti-American.
I don't know why we would not support ANY vehicle built in the US. Honda is certainly building a lot of them here. Would you rather they import all of their vehicles? Or are you just pushing for isolationism, with all of our choices being only from GM, C, or F?
Do you really think that GM or F would have the quality levels they have today if we had never had T or H cars being sold here?
Two leSabres. One Cobalt.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Built in Ohio (Lordstown) US parts primarily. Lots better than a Civic sending money back to Japan. Helped jobs here instead of tokyo.
Waiting for Malibu or Cruze or Elantra next year.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If Mama ain't happy then aint nobody happy
do you really think all your money for your Cobalt is all (100%) going to Detroit? come on, some of the money from your Cobalt purchase is going to Mexico, Canada, Korea, and China so that GM can pay those plants, their workers, their parts manufacturing companies, foreign economy, etc
whether you buy a American, Korean, or Japanese car made and assembled in the US, the money is not all going to the country of origin, their is a heterogeneous dispersion of your money to several different countries!
I don't understand why you would want to denigrate your fellow Americans who buy or lease Japanese, Korean, or German made vehicles that are built here in the US, who are supporting the US economy? is it because a couple thousand dollars more goes to Japan and not the US economy? I just don't get it? we are supporting the American economy just as you are with your GM product purchase!
now if your talking about a Lexus or other foreign vehicle 100% made and built in Japan, Korea, or Germany, etc then that is another story and I would have to agree with you then but I've got two Japanese vehicles assembled in this country with almost 50% US parts!
now you know how I feel, when anti-japanese people come on the Toyota forums or other japanese forums and because of the recent recalls with Toyota paints the entire Japanese auto industry w/a broad brush, (to coin your term), which is also unfair
not on this forum but one or two others I've had people come on an excuse me and others of being anti-American and non-American because I've bought japanese vehicles and that I don't support the US and our economy because all the money goes back to Japan and nothing for the US :confuse:
one car I have was made in Ohio with almost 50% US parts while the other in Tenn with almost 50% US parts so a good chunk of my money went to paying US assembly plants, US production workers, US companies that made those parts, etc! it all didn't go back to Japan :shades:
you would think people such as yourself, and others, who currently have GM, Ford, or Chrysler products would be more understanding and really feel pity for Toyota and its consumer base because of the not to long ago and very similar problems and troubles GM, Ford, and Chrysler had which got them into hot water requiring billions in loans, bailouts, and bankruptcy's
Your perceptions are about as biased as they get on here.
Some posts about other members have been removed.
And you'll notice I have no posts there. That is their problem, not mine ( I am far more concerned with the guy who bought a 2010 LaCrosse that is now sitting at the dealer dead). Although, I have been THOROUGHLY enjoying this mess the Toy is in.
I do feel as though there is some merit to the argument about the money going back to Japan. In this case that money is going into the pocket of Mr. Toyoda, the same Mr. Toyoda who may very well duck out of the Congressional hearings. If this had happened to Ford, no doubt Alan Mullaly AND Bill Ford would be getting hammered in DC next week. Mr. Toyoda will be on his little island next week.
We can all picture what would happen if Mullaly said, "I'm not coming. Have a nice day while our Fords have a major problem(s)." Can't you hear the next things coming out of the various government offices about having to be there because they're a US car company!"
I can hear it now. But toyoda will stay in Japan rather than face the music.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
well I do see your point to an extent about the money; since I'm American and love this country, when I get a japanese vehicle I try to get one built and assembled here, that way, more of money is going to support American interest rather than if I had bought a japanese vehicle, for example, a ES350, which is made 100% in Japan where virtually no money benefits the US; I was quite annoyed as you were when I heard today that Mr. Toyoda was not coming to the Congressional hearings; that is OUTRAGEOUS :mad: !!!
you are right, he should be there taking the heat for Toyota's problems and mistakes just as the three CEOs of GM, Ford, and Chrysler were a little over a year ago!!
he's got some nerve not showing his face; just another example of rich Wall Street like superiority and arrogance, unfortunately Mr. Toyoda is not soley alone in this regard, but almost any rich CEO in any industry thinks they are entitled to do what ever they want at the expensive of everyone below them; its just like these banks and mortgage companies who paid back their bailout loans as quick as possible to the Fed gov't so that they could turn right around and give their CEO's and top level management millions of dollars in bonuses despite the fact it was you and I working our butts off and paying our taxes which allowed them to keep their companies let alone their jobs and they seemed to forget that as quick as the wind blew by
ewhhh, just thinking about it makes me so mad :mad: greedy and arrogant CEOs (ie Mr. Toyoda) are the scum of the Earth, they really are!! they are a disgrace to their companies and employees who bear the brunt of the problems, complaints, etc who get no thanks for what they put up with!
See, it's that mentality that makes the whole "Made In USA" by the foreign companies ring a little hollow to me. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate them being here (it IS good business), but I do feel that to a certain extent that the only reason they do it is to allow people to not feel guilty about spending so much money on a product that would otherwise be imported.
With the dollar value having been so low the cost of importing cars is higher, so the companies that might have lowered production here and increased it at home to increase profits when the dollar is higher, couldn't do so as a way of keeping the production and jobs at home.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I suppose with trucks, but cars?? I dunno.
I feel the same way you do of "Made in the USA" but with GM; I mean Ford has a couple of models made outside the country but GM makes about 40% of their product line outside the US; why is the Camaro, an American legend, built and assembled in Canada? why is an American staple like that not "Made in the USA"? the logic of that decision escapes me completely :confuse:
GM has begun to use a lot of Chinese and Korean companies for parts which they import to their vehicles so this idea that American car companies automatically are "Made in USA" is starting to erode in its own regard!
Its becoming more and more difficult year after year finding cars that don't have some foreign component, whether that be parts or country of assembly, NO MATTER what car manufacturer!
Another great example is the Ford Fusion, why is the new face of Ford, the Fusion, built and assembled in Mexico? how does that show American's build great American cars in the US of A? if you are suppose to have turned your companies around and American vehicles are going to compete with the foreign makes then why can't all your product line be assembled here? that why the "Made in USA" slogan by domestic companies rings a little hollow for me when they criticize the Japanese companies for doing the same thing they do, expand their big business globally by building some of their products in other countries
and that makes sense for them to do when your dealing with capitalism in a global market place
you can't criticize the Japanese companies for doing good business and cutting cost down by having plants in other countries when your doing the same thing to save money and produce American cars in Canada, Mexico, Korea, and China etc!
Your perceptions are about as biased as they get on here.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. My perceptions are echoed by almost all reviews of smaller cars - care to list one where the Cobalt came out ahead of the Mazda 3?
I like handling. If somebody wants isolation then look at a Corolla vs. the Cobalt. The point is that the Cobalt is one of the worst cars in its class vs. competitors. About the only place it excels is that it is an American nameplate. Hopefully the Cruze is better.
As I recall you are correct. The US auto makers were upset at the Japanese competition in the '80's and wanted quotas. The Japanese agreed to voluntary import quotas. However the real problem was that US citizens wanted those cars, so the Japanese companies built plants here to get around the US makers' quotas, also supported by the UAW. Once the Japanese nameplates had quotas put on them, they also started building higher content cars since they could charge more. So today's situation is largely caused by the US automakers and the UAW.
Another example of the law of unintended consequences. The real problem was that the US products were weak. Trying artificial protections backfired in the long run.
Again, it's all about perception, unfortunately. I can honestly say that if you rode 300 miles in a Cobalt XFE and rode back in a Matrix, there is absolutely no way you would not be able to say that the Cobalt is quieter, and that it has absolutely more luggage capacity. But that wouldn't be the conventional wisdom that's out there.
Bill
That sounds familiar. I still think there were tariffs in there somewhere to protect the US automakers (and as you say, the UAW) from dumping of foreign product.
>real problem was that the US products were weak.
That is true.
>artificial protections backfired in the long run.
Seems to work for foreign countries who wish to keep out US products.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1989 Cadillac Brougham
2005 Buick LaCrosse
2007 Cadillac DTS Performance
Heck, my Ford car is even a G.M. (Grand Marquis).
Even Ford recognized a good thing.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't have much experience with the current crop of small cars, other than sitting in them for a few minutes at auto shows, but I can think of one area where the Cobalt excels...front seat room. The seat goes back far enough and the steering wheel and pedals are in a decent enough position for me to be comfortable. Now the back seat is cramped, but up front at least, it feels like a bigger car than it is.
Now if you want a small, lightweight feeling, maybe that's not a good thing. But I don't like a tight, closed-in feeling. I guess it just comes from driving mainly mid- and full-sized cars all my life, but I actually felt comfortable behind the wheel of a Cobalt. The Focus, Civic, Sentra, and Corolla all felt tighter inside to me. Can't remember the Mazda 3 though.
Seems to work for foreign countries who wish to keep out US products.
Not so sure about that. The US is still the top economy in the world. We have generally been the least protectionist in trade. Other companies that are more protectionist are doing worse. Japan has been stagnant for over a decade.
The root of a lot of the disagreements on the value of American vs. foreign nameplates seems to boil down to the following. Is the US made stronger by staying open and encouraging competition? Or is the US better in the long run by protecting industries and providing high-paying jobs that might not be sustainable in a more open situation?
Obviously some of us believe one way and others believe the other. My own viewpoint is that if you try to artificially constrain markets, regardless of what your competitors do, then you are going to hurt this country and any benefits of the protectionism will be unsustainable. IMHO the best way to ensure a strong US is to stay open and compete like hell. That's not what many of the pro-union and pro-US nameplate posters believe. I respect those points of view. I think we all want the US to be successful, it is just about how we do that.
I will say, I'm not crazy about vehcles made in Canada that are sold here either. I do, however, justify it with the fact that the Canadians buy those vehicles, too. They have for 100 years. There was one Canadian car company from about 1903 to 1950 or so. It was called McLaughlin. They basically were Buicks built and sold in Canada. The Camaro is sold and bought in Canada. I take solace in that.
It bothers me more that cars built here aren't exported to other countries for sale as much as they are imported for sale here than it does cars built in Canada for sale here.
well just keep in mind, that a lot of the reason why not as much domestic cars are exported to other countries is because of the long lasting tarnished reputation for poor quality, reliability, and customer service GM, Ford, and Chrysler had for over 20 years; plus, for the last 15 years, the world has seen that more and more American's bought Japanese, Korean, and German vehicles year after year, allowing for instance Toyota to take the number 1 spot the last two years, which obviously they are going to lose now after recent events :P all these factors I just mentioned gave many European, Asian, and other foreign markets great pause from importing GM, Ford, and Chrysler products into their countries
its going to take years of consistent good quality, LONG TERM reliability, and increasing sales that either beat or at least are pretty close to Japanese, Korean, and German competition for the world to become more opened to accepting Ford and GM vehicles in their countries - I could be wrong, because it is just my opinion, but I really don't think Chrysler is going to make it! they still are really struggling post bankruptcy unlike GM which has at the very least showed some signs of progress and improvements! the problem is, Ford and GM have only recently begun a positive upward trend with their companies, I mean it hasn't even been a full year yet since restructuring and bankruptcy so it is still a relatively fresh change for the American auto companies and things are going to take time!
we are going to have to wait another 3-4 years when the current redesigned GM and Ford products are about 6-8 years old and well get to finally see if their long-term reliability can hold up against the Japanese benchmark and so far, there is some good indications that it will and if it does both Ford and GM will be back in business as both reputable, good quality, reliable and great auto manufactures that can give the Japanese, Korean, and German companies a good run for their money! and that is the way it should be in this global capitalist market, competition is good! it really benefits us when we consumers go in to buy and look at cars to get these different car companies bidding against each other for our business because competition is so tight!!
people just have to realize that the changes made at Ford and GM were so extensive, in context of automotive history, that things are not just going to change in 1 or 2 years, they have to be patient and wait till both companies have a few years under their belt post restructuring, loans, and bankruptcy to see how their newly managed/structured companies operate and get all the little kinks out!!!
I think that the bigger issue than quality and reliability is that the traditional American auto wasn't compatible with the right hand drive countries, or the small roads of old Europe, or the traditionally higher gas prices in other parts of the world (imagine running a '70 Electra 225 day after day with $6/gal gas). GM and Ford have always had a presence in Europe and Austrailia.
The big elephant in the room has always been the Asians. Buick has been well respected in China for 80 years. But any company doing business there MUST partner up w/ a Chinese company. Could you imagine a rule like that here?
No matter what the American's quality and dependibility is like, we will never know how well they will be received unless we are allowed to sell cars in those countries like they are allowed to sell theirs here.
I only stated one of the reasons why I think some countries have been hestiant to import domestic made vehicle to their countries and their are many more, several of which you just pointed out and there are others!!
I have a 1929 Buick that I am trying to restore. That car is so simple, It's easy to see a RHD conversion. Just install the steering column and pedals on the other side. You could leave the guages right where they are.
Can we imagine a rule like that for companies wishing to sell inside the US.
But somehow it's tolerated for us to sell into restrictions in other countries.
We need to turn into bulldogs on trade.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But the US companies have been totally criticized in every way and need to keep their speculation build of cars low to minimize costs. Large stocks on dealer's lots mean larger discounts to move the cars in most cases. So staying lean on build was necessary.
The rules should have been totally for US cars to be bought.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Edmund's says the Matrix has 19.8cu ft of storage vs. 13.9 for the Cobalt.
In any event, you should compare the Corolla sedan to the Cobalt as a more appropriate apples to apples set of vehicles.
Where do people come up with this stuff? Everyone was pretty well still bloated with inventory because new cars weren't selling before C4C. Our Dodge/Chrysler dealers still had new 2008s on the lot.
Lots of dealers still had new 2008s on the lot. The manufactures and dealers were doing everything they could to sell off inventory and they couldn't. There was plenty of inventory out there. People bought Japanese and Korean cars because that is what the market looks like. Market share didn't really change much for C4C. It stayed about the same as it was except that brands with more fuel efficient cars got more sales. Chrysler unfortunately doesn't have many fuel efficient models.
Eight of the top 10 cars bought during C4C were from US automakers. Even the cars that were bought from Japanese or Korean auto brands were most likely built in the US anyway. Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have large plants here.
Ahmm... make that 4 from the U.S....try to remember the 4 in C4C!
Top 10 CFC Sales
1: Ford Focus
2: Toyota Corolla
3: Honda Civic
4: Toyota Prius
5: Toyota Camry
6: Ford Escape
7: Hyundai Elantra
8: Dodge Caliber
9: Honda Fit
10: Chevrolet Cobalt
[via CNN Money]
Regards,
OW
You don't understand how the EPA categorizes vehicles and that is why that list is incorrect. If you go to fuel economy.gov it shows cars with different drive trains as separate models since they get drastically different mileage figures. Cars that are avaliable in 2WD and 4WD or AWD or Hybrid and trucks show up as multiple models.
just for example
You have the 2WD escape, 4wd escape and hybrid versions of each.
If you pool all of those versions together the Escape is the number one selling car not the focus.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/
For example, the Ford Escape is available in six different versions including two- and four-wheel drive and hybrid versions. The government counts each version as a different vehicle using guidelines from the Environmental Protection Agency. Only the front wheel drive, non-hybrid version made the government's top ten list.
The Ford Escape crossover SUV, instead of being the seventh-most popular vehicle under the program, as the government ranked it, was actually the best seller, according to Edmunds.com. The government pegged the Ford Focus as the top seller.
Sales of truck models would tend to be heavily diluted using the government's method because practically each version counts as a different vehicle. The difference in tallying methods would not affect the overall totals of trucks, as opposed to cars purchased under the program, only the sales rankings of individual models.
Sales of GM's Silverado truck, under the government's counting method, were divided among five different versions. So were the Ford F-150s. If the different versions of these trucks were considered the same vehicle, as auto sales are normally reported, sales of these trucks would look much heftier.
Anyone who has experience for how the EPA categorizes vehicles could see something like this happening as the program was on going. The way the EPA sets up model distinctions is not the way models are actually differentiated by the manufactures or the public.
Rank Vehicle Includes Includes 4WD Includes Hybrid
1 Ford Escape Yes Yes
2 Ford Focus No No
3 Jeep Patriot Yes No
4 Dodge Caliber Yes No
5 Ford F-150 Yes No
6 Honda Civic No Yes
7 Chevrolet Silverado Yes Yes
8 Chevrolet Cobalt No No
9 Toyota Corolla No No
10 Ford Fusion Yes Yes
Domestics claimed a decent share of the new vehicle sales generated by the program as well. The Detroit News notes, "Detroit's automakers accounted for 47 percent of the first 80,000 ‘Cash for Clunkers' sales, the Obama administration said today...which is above their overall share in the auto market of about 45 percent." The top-selling vehicle under the program so far is the Ford Focus. "Four of the top 10-selling vehicles are manufactured by Detroit's Big Three. Of non-Big Three purchases, the Transportation Department's preliminary analysis suggests that more than half of these new vehicles were manufactured in the United States."
That was August 4th last year.
U.S. News Top 10
The official government site, car.gov, shows that foreign makes garnered 63.1% of invoices ($2.446B Total) during the C4C program. It doesn't matter how the EPA dissects the info. Sales are the bottom line at the end of the day.
Even more telling, afaic, are the makes traded in, by manufacturer, where 86.6% were U.S. makes. The rules were skewed to gas mileage and that's were the U.S. falls short and the Asians rule.
Here is the updated reports to date at the official site
Cars.gov Top 10
Regards,
OW
The foreign makes have more fuel efficient models then the domestic brands, Chrysler being the worst offender there, so they would have gotten the biggest chunk of the C4C pie. They have a larger market share of the US market.
Just totalling up the sales numbers from here the domestics have about 46.2 percent of the market last year. That is of course down from 2008 or 2007 because Chrysler and GM kind of imploded. Kia, Hyundai and to a much smaller extent Subaru took a lot of that market share. The J3 makes took a little too but they were down as well.
Hyundai and Kia combined nearly outsold Nissan/Infiniti. I would be surprised that if Hyundai really puts on the moves in the next 18 months that they do outsell Nissan/Infiniti and maybe Chrysler group too. Chrysler is going to keep dropping till Fiat gets their new models in the pipeline and Hyundai has some more new models coming out on both the high and low end of the price range that are going to really push up their sales.