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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Cars hold up so much better today.

    I agree with this statement, overall, of course. But I will say back then you didn't get catastrophic stuff going wrong, like faulty steering, electronically-controlled this-and-that, transmissions didn't cost $4K, etc. etc. etc.

    But what I think we've largely lost since then, is personality in cars.

    'Til probably the mid'80's, at least at GM, you could custom-tailor a car so you'd never see an exact duplicate. Now you see exact duplicates sitting next to each other on the new car lot--with identical price stickers. I used to be so excited to see the new models each fall. Now, I hardly give a s**t!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I'm with you there. Heck, you are lucky if there are more than two choices on an interior color anymore.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    How did those interiors wear? I remember seeing a low mileage 65 Caprice when I was younger, silver with black brocade interior...it was very cool in almost a gothic kind of way.

    Back in our town, a '65 Caprice was a rare bird. It came out in Dec. '64 if I remember correctly, and was an option package on only the Impala Sport Sedan. In '66 it also was available in Coupe and Estate Wagon variants, but I always thought the '65 Chevy styling was just beautiful from every angle, and the '66, although very similar, was 'screwed up' in the details!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    This is interesting but not surprising, about the Treasury Department's hand in closing of GM and Chrysler dealerships. We had three Chevy dealers within six miles of me two years ago...now I have to drive about seven miles in heavy traffic which is a p*sser IMHO. The Chevy dealer one town over from us (not where I go) lost his franchise after 75 years of family ownership and selling more new Chevys than any other dealer in the county....after several months got it back. But how many sales and employees did he lose in the process? It's criminal, and it's a local/hometown thing which makes it all the worse IMHO.

    http://aftermarketbusiness.search-autoparts.com/aftermarketbusiness/article/arti- cleDetail.jsp?id=683238&sk=973a7b5ee809dbb4263dee2931fc8e60
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    I agree with this statement, overall, of course. But I will say back then you didn't get catastrophic stuff going wrong, like faulty steering, electronically-controlled this-and-that, transmissions didn't cost $4K, etc. etc. etc.

    Yeah, I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. One one hand, cars require less maintenance these days, and don't break down like they used to. But, I think it's more economically feasible to nurse an older car along, than a new one. The transmission in my uncle's '97 Silverado costs about 3x more to rebuild than the one in my '85, and I'm sure that 6-speed thing they use nowadays is worse still.

    And then, you have stuff on modern cars that didn't even exist back in the day. Now, you can have electronic systems and sensors and such fail, cripple the car to the tune of several thousand bucks, where back in the day it was like change the ballast resistor and you're good to go!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The Chevy dealer one town over from us (not where I go) lost his franchise after 75 years of family ownership and selling more new Chevys than any other dealer in the county....after several months got it back. But how many sales and employees did he lose in the process? It's criminal, and it's a local/hometown thing which makes it all the worse IMHO.

    It's less criminal than the whole company going under. :blush:

    The UAW high salaries and benes helped make the US makes less competitive. The UAW worked to feather their caps at the expense of a lot of other workers. Of course that was unsustainable.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    Yep, this car was the sport sedan variant (the 4 door HT). Silver with a black top and interior, pretty sharp and rare car. I've always thought I should have tried to buy it...but as a student at the time with less than a stuffed bank account, it just wasn't possible. I never cared for that Caprice coupe with the squared off C-pillar.

    I remember in the same town at the same time, another guy was selling a very sharp 58 Olds, I guess a top of the line model, as it had air suspension. Completely original stock car down to ancient bias ply wide whites. I think he was asking around 10K for it back around 1995-96 or so...and I know it sold, but I don't know what it brought.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    It's seems then though, the entire car could just decay. That T-Bird was a fairly expensive car when new, and for it to be pretty much worn out by 1985? That's as bad as losing a 4K transmission anyway.

    Surely the personality has faded, in trim/color choices and design in general, I blame computers and sycophantic design schools where everyone thinks the same. And when when something questionable but different comes out, like a Cube/Soul/Scion etc, people go nuts just to have something different.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    And out here, salt is unknown - we are lucky if they even sand the roads in a snow event, instead using windshield-and-paint destroying gravel.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Surely the personality has faded, in trim/color choices and design in general, I blame computers and sycophantic design schools where everyone thinks the same.

    Considering EPA, and NHTSA rules, lean manufacturing, along with management and board of directors that have their heads squarely up their collective (well you know). You end up with cars that aren't very imaginative.

    You've got 6 figures to get something remotely interesting.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'm with you there. Heck, you are lucky if there are more than two choices on an interior color anymore.

    Trucks are still very customizable. I don't know how many different configs and F-150 has but the options and configuration list is long. I think the f150 has 5 different trim levels, a few different bed lenghts and styles, single cab, super cab, and super crew cab etc. Maybe that's partly why they're so expensive. It has to be a very complicated manufacturing process to efficiently build that many combinations.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I know there have been several posts regarding computers, but honestly, I don't wish for a world with out computers. Just think how much dirtier and less fuel efficient cars would be without the use of electronic sensors and computer controls. Not to mention how much better they run. I don't miss carburetors by any means and I don't think any of us would want mechanical fuel injection either. Not to mention all of the other areas that computers aid our lives.

    Yeah, cars are more expensive to repair, but I haven't had a car leave me stranded in probably 13 years and I've probably driven 200k+ miles since then.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    I never cared for that Caprice coupe with the squared off C-pillar.

    Me, neither! I'm a fan of their fastback coupes ('Sport Coupe') of that era. I really didn't like the formal Caprice/Impala Custom rooflines until '71, when IMO the Sport Coupe roof looked too small for the rest of the Chevy's body.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    I really didn't like the formal Caprice/Impala Custom rooflines until '71, when IMO the Sport Coupe roof looked too small for the rest of the Chevy's body.

    I thought the formal roofline looked a bit odd at first and preferred the slicker fastback, in '65-66 at least, but then for '67-68, I think the fastback was just TOO extreme. Although I think I still prefer it to the formal roof.

    For '69-70, I think they got the regular roofline at just the right balance...not too rakish, not too upright.

    In '71-73, I agree, the Impala Custom coupe looks better than the Sport coupe. I like the larger quarter window, and the Dart-like, concave rear window. I think they all looked good in that timeframe, though.

    For 1974, the Sport coupe got a C-pillar that looked kind of like the '71-73 Custom coupe, but was clunkier. And it lost the concave rear window. The Custom Coupe, and Caprice, went to a stationary window style with a long, skinny window that wasn't as tall as the door window, and the result made it look like two different cars were grafted together at the B-pillar.

    You could still get the "true hardtop" Sport coupe in 1975, but I think most buyers went for the fixed-window Custom. I always thought it was odd that the car with roll-down rear windows was cheaper than the car with stationary rear windows!

    I always liked that 2-door hardtop style that the '74-76 LeSabre, Catalina, Delta 88, and '74 Bonneville used. It was sort of a combination of a true hardtop and the "Colonade" roofline of the '73- era intermediates. You still got a small, roll-down window, but then had a longer, skinny, stationary window behind it.

    here's a '75 LeSabre coupe. This roofline might look clunky to a lot of people, but I think it's pretty neat looking. Plus, it probably gave the cars good visibility and an open, airy feel.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Dad had a 1972 Ford LTD that looked like mice ran through the body by 1981. The 1971-76 full-size Fords were notorious rusters. Curiously, they seemed to have licked the problem for the 1977-78 full-size Fords which were the same body shell.

    Heck, I remember Ziebart and Rusty Jones.

    "Hello Rusty Jones! Good-bye rusty cars!"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My uncle had a green 1977 Dodge van he had Ziebarted. The stuff did work. Other Dodge vans were rust buckets within a few years while his survived into the 1990s with well over 200K+ miles on it and NO RUST!!!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Tell me about it. I think the City of Philadelphia throws an ocean's worth of salt on the roads even when there's the slightest chance of ice. The blacktop actually turns white and doesn't go away until the first heavy rain.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You can have any choice you want as long as it's gray or beige.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, when I bought my first car, there was a white 1958 Oldsmobile Super 88 four-door hardtop with a red roof on the lot. The car was in excellent condition and the guy only wanted $2,500 for it. Sadly, even that was too much for a 16 year-old's budget. It would've made for one heck of a first car. I'd have definitely held onto it to this day!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    My first antique car was almost a 1954 Buick Roadmaster. One of my neighbors, who worked on old cars, and would later help me paint my two Darts, put a leaf spring on the DeSoto, and help put a back door on a friend's '78 Malibu after he smashed it, etc, knew where there was a decent one for sale, for $600. This was back in the late 80's sometime.

    It was just a 4-door sedan, and I think dark green. I never did get a chance to see it though, just knew what my neighbor told me. It would've been a neat car, but I'm still glad I held off. Who knows...if I had bought that Buick, I might never have gotten the DeSoto.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    "Hello Rusty Jones! Good-bye rusty cars!"

    LOL, I had completely forgotten about ole Rusty Jones
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, when I was in college, I came across a black 1950 Buick Roadmaster sedan that was in kind of ratty but driveable condition. The body was solid and rust free, but the interior was kind of a mess. The paint was halfway dull and the chrome definitely needed to be redone. The guy wanted only $600 for it, but I didn't have $600 at the time for a toy that would've likely sat in my parents' driveway for years until I had the funds to properly restore it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Here he is! The man, the myth, the legend...

    image
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Your killing me! LOL. I haven't seen one of those stickers in probably 25+ years.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    Here's a couple shots of what I think is a '55 Buick Super or Roadmaster, that lives less than a mile from me. Or, at least it did the last time the Google van came through!
    image
    image

    Sometimes, I feel like my neighborhood must be the land that time forgot, when I see these old relics still sitting around in driveways. Oh well, I guess I live in the right neighborhood! :P

    And, this is only about 1/4 mile from the house that has the '79 Buick I was interested in which, unfortunately, turned out to be a Skylark. :sick:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...where you could rustproof your own car. My Dad bought one of their kits to rustproof his 1970 Ford Torino. He'd drill holes inside the doors and panels, spray this goop inside, and plug it with plastic tabs provided in the kit. It worked as far as I know. I don't remember that car rusting with the ferocity of his 1972 LTD.

    What killed the Torino was some drunk knucklehead who owned a local deli in a 1972 Pontiac LeMans. I remember walking to the car Sunday morning to go to church and my Dad says, "Why is my car parked so crooked?" He goes around to the other side and I hear, "...oh no...OH NO!!!" The left rear corner was plowed into up to the rear window. Later on, my Dad got a call from the guy who hit his car. The guy told my Dad, "Why did you park it so far out into the street?" My Dad responded with profanity that would make Tony Soprano blush.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, if it turned out to be an '80 Century, you could've pretended to be Peggy Hill!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    The concave rear windows were cool, GM was still at least trying for some interesting design during the mastadon age.

    That '75 car is another I give a "disco" moniker too, that roofline is so 70s to me, along with its sedan counterparts that had the rear quarter window.

    How many period American cars weren't available with a vinyl top?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    I remember looking at a dark red 64 Impala SS shortly before I turned 16, it was a 327/4 speed, average condition, I think they wanted $4500 for it (early 90s). I liked it, but it was too rich for my blood, and my dad didn't care for it, and his decision would allow the purchase. He preferred cheaper and Ford, which is why I ended up in a very clean 66 Galaxie HT (390) that I was able to snag for a cool grand.

    I also remember looking at a 63 Galaxie convertible and a 63.5 Falcon Sprint, both of which I really wanted, but neither owner would sell, preferring to see the cars slowly rot away in carports. I don't know exactly what became of either. My dad also liked both cars, especially the Falcon as it was rare and in very sound condition. I also remember looking at a 62 Galaxie 500 XL about 6 months before I got my license...black on red, 390, decent condition, they wanted 2K for it...but my dad didn't like it for some unknown reason.

    When I was 15 or so, a friend of mine's father sold an immaculate white on red 62 Impala SS for something like $6K, it would have been a bargain even then.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited August 2010
    How many period American cars weren't available with a vinyl top?

    Now that's a good question. Maybe the eco cars didn't get them I can't remember, but it probably was at least an option. Did the likes of Pintos and Vegas have vinyl roofs? I don't think I've ever seen a Corvette with one thank God.

    I think the fake convertible tops were great;)....um, not....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    I am pretty sure Pinto and Vega could be had with it, yeah. Corvette might be the only exception. I'm not complaining that fad has passed - at least outside of Florida :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    Corvairs never had a vinyl top (from the factory, anyway!).

    Actually, both Vegas and Pintos got optional vinyl tops in their mid-to-later years. In the Vega, it was only on the notchback coupe (ick), as part of the "LX" package (late '74/'75). Not sure when they started on Pintos.

    I remember to see an early Cadillac Seville without a vinyl top was a rare treat. Same with the all-new '79 Eldorado.

    I'm mostly familiar with GM's, but I think starting in the mid'60's you could get vinyl tops on virtually every car in the lineup (except Corvair).

    And when you got the removable hardtop on Corvettes, at least on '68's and later, they could be black-vinyl covered. I remember them well.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I keep telling everyone what it means. Perhaps another picture?

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Sharp car, but I don't think it's going to be built stateside is it?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    What is that thing supposed to be, anyway? I know it's not a Sonata, it's not a Genesis, and it's not that horse-hung thing that they're supposed to bringing out.

    It actually does look a bit like a Sonata, in the greenhouse area.
    image

    Whatever it is, I think it's reasonably attractive. Much better looking than the Sonata that actually hit the streets.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited August 2010
    I think that is the new Eqius (SP?) which is coming next year.

    Supposed to be the flagship of the Hyundai brand.

    Hyundai Equus
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,467
    Buying American means a photoshopped concept style rendering of the Sonata, which was much smoother and homogenous than the finished product?

    :shades: ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    Buying American means a photoshopped concept style rendering of the Sonata, which was much smoother and homogenous than the finished product?

    I wonder if Photoshop is still made in America? :surprise: I just did a quick survey of my desktop. Keyboard, made in China. Mouse, too. My electric stapler's made in Japan. The phone is made in Germany. Heavy duty stapler, made in Taiwan.

    I have a 10 year old monitor that's "Designed by Apple in California" but "Assembled in Korea". Samsung monitor that my PC uses...no need to turn that one around and look, I guess. :sick: I also have a Dell monitor and an Acer, both made in China. Speakers for the computer? China.

    My chair was made in Canada. It was also recalled, because there was the possibility that the backrest could fail and fall away. Oddly, my Intrepid, which was built in Canada, had been recalled for the same thing.

    About the only thing I can find, made in America, is the copy paper, a little group award we got a couple years ago, and an ancient 3-color transfer roll, still in the box, that I sit my monitor on to raise it up.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I'll guess that the code for PS was written here, but I'd seriously doubt the cd and packaging is made here.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Isn't the next Elantra going for that look as well? Another American as apple pie car.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    The processor has a good chance of being made here. Possibly the hard drive. The operating system had much of the code written here.

    I just built my own pc with an Intel I5 processor and many components from us companies. No doubt most of the parts were made in Asia. Final assembly was in the good ol USA
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I read that GM is going to jointly develop and produce engines with China. Just what I want, more Chinese made crap. Didn't they have less than stellar Chinese engines in the previous Equinox? Seems that most everything I get that has made in China on it is either defective, or doesn't last real long. Chinese drive trains will definitely keep me out of the GM showrooms.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    edited August 2010
    Seems that most everything I get that has made in China on it is either defective, or doesn't last real long.

    I remember, years ago, at work, hearing and feeling a loud thud, and hearing something metallic break, in an office down the hall. Then, about a minute later, a lady down the hall comes into my office with a 3-hole punch that had the handle broken off. She asked me if I had another.

    I asked her, what'd you do, jump on it?! That's exactly what she did. It jammed up and so she threw a little weight into it.

    This story really doesn't have much to do about cheap Chinese junk though. This girl would probably break an anvil if she jumped on it.

    Didn't they have less than stellar Chinese engines in the previous Equinox?

    I can't remember now, if that 3.4 was built in China, or if it was the 5-speed automatic, or both? But yeah, I didn't like the idea of that stuff coming from China.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited August 2010
    Yup, the 3.4 litre boat anchor that traces it's roots back to the 2.8?

    "GM and SAIC Motor Announce Powertrain Co-Development "

    Then there is this:
    "GM, China’s SAIC to co-develop engine, dual-clutch transmission "

    And let's not forget this:

    "General Motors 2011 VIN decoder reveals new 1.0L, 1.2L, 1.6L four cylinder engines"

    Both engines are listed as port-injected, dual-overhead-cam units from the automaker's South Korean operations, GM Daewoo Automotive Technologies (GMDAT).

    Go America... :sick:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,905
    edited August 2010
    The competitive landscape of the past couple of decades, with wide-open importing, is what has forced the Big Three to source parts in other countries.

    Still, one doesn't have to choose those products.

    Anyone has got to know, that GM is still more of an American corporation than Hyundai. Anything else is just posturing.

    I choose domestic-built product from a U.S. corporation with high NA content--which means U.S. and Canada on the sourcing labels.

    Hopefully this sends some small message to the manufacturer--hey, build it here!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    I choose domestic-built product from a U.S. corporation with high NA content--which means U.S. and Canada on the sourcing labels.

    Why Canada? If your basic working definition of "foreign" is anything that comes from outside of our 50 states - & that's the only definition that's logically coherent - then Canada is every bit as foreign as, say, Vietnam. That Canada shares a border with us & that some Canadians speak a form of English that we can understand doesn't change that.

    Among the buy-American crowd, there's a tendency to give Canada a pass. But until the provinces successfully petition for entry to our Union, then Canada is no less foreign than any other country.

    Otherwise, you have to allow me to argue that because my father's family came here from Germany 150 years ago, my BMW 330i (yes, I'm bragging) really isn't a foreign car.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I choose domestic-built product from a U.S. corporation with high NA content--which means U.S. and Canada on the sourcing labels.

    Why Canada? If your basic working definition of "foreign" is anything that comes from outside of our 50 states - & that's the only definition that's logically coherent - then Canada is every bit as foreign as, say, Vietnam. That Canada shares a border with us & that some Canadians speak a form of English that we can understand doesn't change that.

    Among the buy-American crowd, there's a tendency to give Canada a pass. But until the provinces successfully petition for entry to our Union, then Canada is no less foreign than any other country.

    Otherwise, you have to allow me to argue that because my father's family came here from Germany 150 years ago, my BMW 330i (yes, I'm bragging) really isn't a foreign car.


    I completely agree. Why do some excuse the Canada-made items, yet blast the Mexican ones?

    Does either country contribute to the US government coffers? Can US citizens get some of the Canadian government provided health care?

    The answer, of course...is NO!

    But, lets be fair. There are several reasons production has been outsourced to other countries. Profits, non-unionized work force, and...here's a big one... Environmental impact.

    Manufacturing can be a very dirty business, especially in areas such as metals production, electronic components and chemicals (as well as other areas). It makes sense that US manufacturers would operate in the least-strict environmental area.... as long as they can get away with it.

    However, as these 3rd world economies improve and grow, they too will want a cleaner environment, causing manufacturing operations to shift to yet additional areas.... And, the cycle continues. China clearly recognizes that already.

    China won't be a manufacturing cess-pool in the long run... Nor will any country with a government other than one like N. Korea.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    The competitive landscape of the past couple of decades, with wide-open importing, is what has forced the Big Three to source parts in other countries.

    Meanwhile, the most US-sourced vehicle is the Toyota Camry.

    Perhaps the UAW is the differentiator?
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    At least I redirected the mindset....

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    Sorry, but I just see nothing whatsoever attractive about that style. Remember that episode of "I Love Lucy", where Lucy lost her wedding ring, and she though it fell in the concrete that Fred and Ricky used to build a new barbecue? So, in the middle of the night, Lucy and Ethel take the grille apart and then try to put it back together?

    Well, to paraphrase Ricky Ricardo... they don't have earthquakes in Connecticut, and they don't have tornadoes (they do, but that's not germane to the topic), but they do have hurricanes. And that think looks like Hurricane Lucy and Hurricane Ethel went Tag-Team on a Camry!
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