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Yes to both, Jeyhoe. By the way, I enjoy reading your posts and always have! If I disagree or even purposely take some of what you say out of context, it is nothing personal. I think you know by now that I have a sense of humor. My only point is that sometimes I think we over-react. If an Explorer fits the needs of a family for hauling or towing or whatever, and they suddenly trade it for a Prius, they must not have needed an Explorer very badly in the first place.
I do not intend to quit living my life just because gas is expensive. I might cut back on a few other things to help compensate but I like cars too much to give up and drive a bleepbox just because I might save a few bucks a year.
If you're just saying that some people won't be able or willing to spend $3K/year on a new 20 mpg vehicle then I'd agree - SOME people won't. But I'm sure you have Navigator owners who are currently getting 15 mpg who would gladly trade for a 20 mpg MKS - they'll be SAVING $1500/yr in fuel costs while getting even more luxury features. So it works both ways.
The only 30 mpg vehicles (combined) I know of are very small 4 cylinder cars without any luxury features. Do you really think people would buy a Corolla instead of a MKS?
The CTS is not a direct MKS competitor - it's MUCH smaller, that's why I used the DTS. The point is that from a FE standpoint the MKS is actually better than previous Lincoln vehicles and most of the direct competition. The entire segment (large luxury sedans) might take a hit but there's no reason the MKS would take more of a hit than the others.
Anyway, people cross-shop cars in EPA interior volume categories all the time. Some people perceive the Taurus as a large mid-size, due to its looks, even though it is full-sized. The "full-sized" Sonata is generally not perceived as any more a full-sized a car than the Camry is.
All that said, the MKS really is a DTS competitor. Those who gravitate toward the CTS, BMWs, Infinitys, and Lexus (except for the ES350) are unlikely to give the MKS much of a look.
Feeling kinda sympathetic towards folks around here who moved out to Modesto and Tracy and places 50 or 60 miles from work to buy an "affordable" house in trade for a 120 mile round trip commute. 600 miles a week, that's 30,000+ miles a year or about $9000 per year for gasoline. Ouch.
For us, we're moving in a couple of weeks 180 miles from here. Cheaper to live, less stress, wife got degree and will be starting job. Not sure how far her commute will be but conventional wisdom would have us rethink the LS. Probably would look at a Prius. At double or better the mpg, and a 50 mile RT commute it would still take lets see 45*50 carry the 1 divide by sum of the squares, factor in the obama constant, ... 10 years!! to break even at $5.00 gallon. Is it worth 10 years of driving a Prius vs a stick-shift LS that runs like new? Thats the big question.
I have driven a CTS. It is a sports sedan and you get a pretty noisy engine, lots of tire slap, and a firm ride. You don't get a lot usable rear seat room, either, but you do get a rewarding and engaging driving experience. If the buyer seeking soft luxury drives a CTS back to back with the MKS, my guess is the MKS will win hands down. It appears that the MKS is a bit more like the ES 350 only larger and with the 19 or 20 inch wheels and AWD, likely more engaging to drive. From a "neat gadget" standpoint, the MKS meets or exceeds either one.
RWD V8 sedans like the 300C, Northstar STS, or GS 460 will blow away the MKS in performance but those models are not selling. Lincoln may have stumbled onto the right formula with the MKS in spite of their incompetence when this car was conceived.
Good luck with the move. I hope your life will really be easier.
Bottom line, I will probably be buying a MKS unless there is a major surprise on the test drive. I am disappointed that there is no instantaneous fuel MPG display. I used to love to see the different MPG at different speeds in such a display. I will be disappointed if there turns out to be no external temperature on the display. I am disappointed that the rear seats do not fold down like they do for the Taurus and Sable. i would gladly trade some performance for a bit better MPG.
Want to know why I like Ford/Lincoln? There are two big reasons for me. I need the external keypad and I really like the cruise control with the singe mile per hour step up and step down function. For example, when the speed limit changes from 70 to 55 mph, I simply rapidly tap the step down button 15 times and forget about it. I had a GM car once where it was so hard to get the exact speed you wanted. Isn't it amazing the little things that make the difference for some people.
However, with the MKS there are little things I don't like: the too long schnozz (if it is not adding to room or style, why do it?), the lumpy profile (like a sanded Taurus), the too short wheelbase, the me-too rear door cut-out, the lower front grill that bears no relationship to the upper one.
I think gas costs will force the next version to be more efficient in weight and mpg. Lincoln already knows they didn't hit a home run with the styling..but at least they avoided using the Taurus homely stick on it.
Thanks for the good words. I know my life will be easier.
Oh, I hear you about Boston traffic. I grew up there. Used to drive from Forest Hills to Northeastern University, a distance of I'd estimate 10 miles, in 30 minutes on a good day. The trolley was an option, if u had another 30 minutes to waste
Lastly, we made the choice here that your wife recoiled against. We have lived for 10 years in a nice quiet place 20 miles south of Silicon Valley. The drive is over an 1800 foot pass via a mountain road that was nicknamed 'blood alley' until a 20 mile concrete center divider eliminated the head-ons. It's still a dangerous and challenging drive and one of the reasons I got a "driver's car" last time out. The guy who's buying the house is also a SV engineer and will have to travel this road. He's been down here three times what with negotiating and signing and walk thru etc. 2 of those 3 times it took him an hour to go those 20 miles. The last time, the road was closed due to a fire. (We now have 800 fires burning in N Cal due to a freak lightning storm on Sunday. Breathing is like smoking a pack a day) Any case, I dunno if he's regretting his decision or not. His wife has decided to look for a local job tho rather than drive "The Hill". I dont blame her.
As for gas costs, last week we brought a 95 Ford van load of 'stuff' up to the new place. 186 miles away from here. Used a full tank to go round trip. $124.00 !!??GRRR The flip side of course is I'd have to make about 5 trips with a Prius to get a van load of stuff moved.
The dealer with whom I have worked before no longer sells Lincolns and I have never set foot in any of the other Lincoln stores in town. This will be a good opportunity to determine which one I want to do business with.
The interior of the production model is better than the show car I viewed earlier. The lower door panels are padded, there is some lining in the door pockets, and the fit and finish is great. I still think the center stack and console are 2nd rate and would cover them as soon as the aftermarket has a suitable product. I also still think the seat bottom is too short. Otherwise, the interior is very nice.
The technology is pretty impressive. The factory rep used me to demonstrate some of the features like sync and the various voice commands for the climate, nav, and entertainment system. Say "I am hungery" and up pops a list of eating establishments. Say the one you want and Nav will give you directions and the phone number to call for reservations. Pretty cool. Any destination can be entered via voice so you can do it all while driving. You can also adjust the temp and fan speed and lots of other things without taking your eyes off the road. I really like the jukebox. You can copy all of your CDs onto the harddrive and then tell it what you want to hear.
The drive was fairly short but eye-opening for me. Any comparison to a Taurus, an old Continental, or even a DTS is out the window from my perspective. This is much more of a drivers car than I expected. The ride with the 19 inch Michelins is firm - way firmer than a Taurus - even firmer than my LS. The car has a very solid feel. I would want to try one with the 18 inch wheels and standard Goodyear Comfortred tires before I decide which I like best. The factory rep told me the tires make a huge difference and that the 20s are very firm. He advised anyone who orders an MKS with the 20s to make sure they drive one with them first.
Another big surprise: The 3.7 V6 does an incredible imitation of a small V8. It seems much quieter and more refined than the 3.5. It also packs a solid punch. I think they made the throttle tip-in more aggressive than our Taurus because a slight punch on the gas really makes it respond. Wide open throttle sounds very refined and is stronger than I expected. The model I drove was AWD and it would handily out accelerate my LS. I would like to try the lighter FWD model.
Last thing: I thought I wanted the Sangria Red. They had one in that color and it is a bit too RED for me. I was hoping for something a bit more subdued. I will have to find one in Cinnamon and see what that looks like.
Overall, this is a pretty impressive car. I need to take a much longer drive but I liked what I saw. I look forward to comments from others after you drive one.
Not according to the owner's manual. It isn't mentioned or shown in any of the diagrams. Have a look for yourself - this ECC is different than previous systems.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/owners_manuals/default.asp
Nv, I look forward to your impressions after you drive one. I have never driven an LS430 so I don't know how it would compare with something that good! I have driven my bosses Acura RL and while the ride is similar, the MKS is a lot quieter. I would give the RL the nod for interior appointments primarily due to the beautiful center stack in the RL. The MKS is certainly the equal in refinement, IMO.
I need to drive one with the 18 inch wheels. Actually, the 19s were a bit firm for me. I also need to take longer drive where I can really push it around some corners. I promise you though, it is not a warmed over 2002 Continental.
Shame about the center stack. Just a shame. But then, IIRC, my 2001 LS had a pretty sad looking black center stack as well. Why is it that Lincoln apparently does not see the importance of making this area, the one that both driver and passenger see equally, visually attractive? In my case, I put a little matching wud over the radio and the HVAC and it made quite a difference.
Nav system sounds reallly trick. Haven't really been following the technology. How does this compare to other hi-tech nav systems? Anyone know?
As for the driving experience, it sounds quite good. Good accel. Any turns? As for the ride and handling etc - the AWD would sap a bit of power so the FWD might be even better performing. I wonder about the handling and possible torque steer in the FWD though. The AWD probably increases the good driving dynamics. What do u think? Interesting choice between AW and FW drive pros and cons
Good - I thought it was there but for some reason it's not even shown or mentioned in the owner's manual. Maybe it's in the Navigation/Sync supplement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXSMczXUnzs&feature=user
Yes, there are 2 trip computers and an external temp display on the nav according to Bruce.
As for the center stack - it's quite an upgrade from the LS' flat black plastic. Look at the high res pictures - it has sparkly bits and looks quite nice. Not sure how it feels and you may not be able to see that from a few feet away, but at least they're using better materials than in the past. I would have preferred to see some real wood or aluminum though.
Unfortunately, my drive consisted of about a mile or two of straight boulevard and about a mile of city streets - no way to really test the handling. I am basing my comments about the acceleration on one wide-open punch from about 20 - 60 MPH and a quick punch away from a stop light. I need more time in the car to really evaluate it but it felt plenty healthy. Unlike my wife's Taurus, there is no front end lift when you punch it.
When I say the ride is firm, I do not mean to imply that it is harsh. I really do not know if that firm ride translates into good handling. Need to find out. It is certainly not blue-hair sloppy, though.
A couple of other nits to pick: The leather on the driver's seat had more wrinkles after 3000 miles than my LS does at 110,000. Having said that, the leather does seem thicker and softer than the LS. Also, the manumatic is bass-ackwards as far as I am concerned. You pull back to upshift and push forward to downshift. On downshifts, it automatically raises the engine speed so it is very smooth.
Next week, I am going to another of these events at a different dealer. I hope to drive another one.
What they are not allowing yet is a full blown test - those are usually embargoed to give the major car magazines enough lead time to get their articles on the stand and to allow the cars to be available at dealerships. That should be within the next month.
There are a ton of driving impressions available if you do a search for "lincoln MKS reviews."
This one has quotes from lots of different reviewers.
No dealers in my area have any stock yet. The Ford Rep who was at the preview event I attended was as protective as a mother lion with a new cub. When a local dealer gets some cars, I plan on a good test drive.
I don't understand why you think making electronic "doo-dahs" optional would save any money at all. It certainly had nothing to do with the platform selection. The problem was Ford does not have a suitable RWD platform available right now for Lincoln. Poor product planning from the early part of this decade. The D3 platform was the only viable platform available and it looks like they've made the most of it. GRWD is still coming AFAIK, despite some reports to the contrary.
I also don't understand torque steer when making a lane change at 70+ mph.
If one were really sensitive to torque steer, AWD would be the solution. No doubt if you attempted to compete in an autocross with a FWD MKS, you would discover drawbacks compared to a RWD vehicle. Likewise, if I attemped to drive an MKS back into the wooded area of my property and load it with firewood, I would find that my 4WD Ranger would be better for the task.
Have not even touched let alone driven an MKS yet, so I can't speak to performance, but I think "gimmicks" is an incorrect assessment of the "equipment" on the car. I'm not going to buy a Lincoln that doesn't have a lot of options, or equipment to make my drive easier. Sync makes Lincoln competitive with anybody on the voice/telephone/entertainment front, and is a huge step for Ford. They can't put too much "equipment" on a car for me. One man's gimmick is another man's must have, I guess.
The Lincoln must have about every option imaginable on it to be competitive, and if it is going to overcome the comparison to Buick, it needs to have more than Buick and Acura to get back into the league with the big boys. Not sure this car will do it, but it's clearly a step in the right direction, I think.
Dealers were never told the MKS would use the XF chassis. The LS was the end of the line for that. Nor was the plan ever to use the Falcon chassis. For one thing, it is right hand drive and not easily re-engineered.
The MKS was designed from the beginning as a FWD car. It was proposed before the MKR, and to date, there is still no completed design for the MKR RWD chassis. The LS chassis was expensive and dated. Ford chose to retire it, rather than fix/update it for the little pay-off if any it would provide. What remained was the Mustang chassis (an expensive and compromising re-do needed to make it a larger 4 door)...and we can't even speak of the Town Car chassis, which is so outclassed in 2008 that it would be ludicrous to base a new allegedly competitive luxury car on it.
From what I have read, for what it is the MKS performance is class competitive. A RWD sedan is planned but still down the road. Given the realities of new EPA mandates and real world gas prices, it makes sense that Lincoln didn't put its few eggs in that basket right away.
The Lincoln brand is seeking to survive after years of inept design and lack of new models. Going after BMW customers in 2008 would be just as inept, and may have hastened the brand's demise. It's survival will remain in question, but the MKS is the best thing Lincoln has issued since the early LS.
In other words - a LANE CHANGE. Same thing. What you just described has nothing to do with torque steer - that only occurs when you are under hard acceleration - usually from a stop.
The Jag platform requires expensive low volume engines, which was part of the LS' problem. The corporate V8s (4.6/5.0) won't fit. And the platform itself is expensive. Not to mention that Jag is/will be a separate company.
The Falcon platform solves the engine problem, but it's expensive to import and convert to LHD and it doesn't necessarily have the refinement necessary for Lincoln.
The Global RWD platform should solve all of those problems. Unfortunately it won't get here overnight.
As I said before, blame the lack of planning/direction and budget that occurred in the 2002-2006 timeframe. It didn't happen overnight and it won't get fixed overnight. In the meantime, Lincoln has to sell vehicles at a profit and the MKS (with all of it's doo-dahs" will do just that.
Let me guess - you were "told" this by a factory rep, right? As opposed to seeing it in writing in a memo or broadcast at a dealer conference? Or maybe this was just pie in the sky early planning before they actually decided what to do?
And there is nothing about RWD IRS that makes it understeer. What was the great invention that Mercedes came up with that made this non-issue a non-issue?
And Ford isn't using a Volvo platform - the new D3 (D3-2 or D4) platform may have started as a Volvo but it's been highly modified by Ford and uses Ford engines.
One reason the Jag platform wasn't used is that it isn't AWD capable. That's one reason the Volvo platform WAS selected to begin with.