Stories from the Sales Frontlines

madmanmoo · July 2007

Rover,

I'll take two of what you're having. I love spicy martinis and I've been making some of those Margaritas at the house. I tell ya what though, that Grand Marnier is expensive!

Also, to stay on topic with booze and sales stories:

We had a regular drunk working here several years ago. He was a great salesman who always held great gross. He was coming in late on a Saturday at about 11:00am. He's hungover and grouchy. The SM is eyeballing him from his desk about to read him the riot act.

As the Salesman is walking across the lot towards his office, he stumbles into a customer. Greets them, sells them, makes 5 pounds and never consults the SM. He just walks up with the signed paperwork, throws it on the SM's desk and tells him to sign it. SM is a little speechless.

It was situations like that that kept him on the line for so long.

(He's since quit drinking. He's a bit of a shell of himself now. Good guy though.)

-Moo

epiney · July 2007

Holy Smokes! I never really understood that kind of behavior. How many guys do you typically get like this? 10%, 20, 2?

im_brentwood · July 2007

Oh,

They'll still be paying the bank! BMW sells 200k cars here a year, figure a conservative average total invoice fo $40k per copy.

That's $80 Billion

epiney · July 2007

What happened with the couple with the Sienna? I'll take one of those Margs on ice too! Yum.

greanpea68 · July 2007

Holy Smokes! I never really understood that kind of behavior. How many guys do you typically get like this? 10%, 20, 2?

Typically I would say 5% of the customers are to that extreme.

thenebean · July 2007

british,

my hubby loves spicy stuff. a few years back, on a trip to the great white north (actually, niagara falls) we bought a bottle of Inferno hot pepper vodka. he loved the stuff. turns out you can only get it in a couple places now, not at the duty free shop over the border anymore. this led him to create his own hot pepper vodka. got some good vodka, sliced up a variety of hot peppers, put them in a bottle and let them soak for a bit (couple of weeks). the longer it soaked, the spicier it got. gross to most of our friends except one. they would put it in bloody marys, martinis, or drink it as a shot.

anyways, i will take a sombrero (kahlua and milk) please!

-thene

epiney · July 2007

Well we all know that there are two sides to every story, so I thought I thought I would get the buyers side. Having recently brushed up on my Bosnian with the Rosetta Stone express learn pack, I set out to find this guy. Finally tracked him down in his new Altima. He had a little trouble hearing me at first since his radio was loud and he was slow to turn it down since he didnt have steering wheel controls.

So I ask him how his new car deal went. Heres his take: Having little experience in car buying, I was very nervous in going to the dealer. Immediately pounced on by a shark when I only wanted to look at cars. So while I look around, he is following me with his eyes the whole time, I find a car I think I like. I go back to find out what I might buy it for and then it just goes crazy. The different trim levels and options and prices confuse me. Just cant keep them straight. He then asks about my car as a trade. This guy wants to make money on me on the car and the trade. After picking what I think is the car and option level, we agree on a price. I had to check with my brother and good thing I did as their first offers were way too high. We talk about trade and I was offered $500. I couldnt believe it; they were trying to steal my car! We finally settled on $2000.

Before we sign, I ask him to show me the car to be sure. It looks different than the one I saw on the lot. It didnt have some of the options I saw. When I asked about it, I was told that the car I looked at and based my deal on was a mistake! Talk about a classic case of bait and switch. I was going to leave the dealership, but I had already wasted my day there and did not want to subject my wife to this whole ordeal again. So I just gave in and bought the car. I felt like a fish being reeled in on a line.

After all of this trouble, I didnt even get a free t-shirt or cap from the dealer. My brother keeps telling me that Nissan is too proud of their cars and too high. He had a similar problem last week. He even went to the dealer three times.

Anyone want to buy a used Bosnian Rosetta Stone language module?

:P

qbrozen · July 2007

1st - welcome back, man! we've missed you!

2nd - what's an "inspection 2"?

kyfdx · July 2007

Inspection 2 is the 60K mile service.. Generally $600-$800 at a BMW dealer. Plus, whatever they might find wrong.

greanpea68 · July 2007

Having recently brushed up on my Bosnian with the Rosetta Stone express learn pack, I set out to find this guy. Finally tracked him down in his new Altima. He had a little trouble hearing me at first since his radio was loud and he was slow to turn it down since he didnt have steering wheel controls.

Very funny :shades:

qbrozen · July 2007

Ah. ok. i thought it had to do with state inspection (an area my bimmer needs help in at the moment

).

volvomax · July 2007

you are absolutely right.
If the motor co's had fixed pricing,because they controlled the retailing, there would be no incentive for negotiations,or any of the concessions that car dealers make to sell cars.
Car dealers compete with each other much more so that the motor co's do.

dino001 · July 2007

The only possible real benefit I can see from mfrs. "fixed pricing" I can see is significantly fewer people getting screwed by predatory dealers. Deals would be pretty much the same for everybody, adjusted for credit scores, which means the "best buyers" would lose, but those more vulnerable and less knowledgeable would probably gain from it. It would probably look very much like Carmax.

im_brentwood · July 2007

Actually,

On most BMWs they are due every 30k. What the cars require varies a lot. I can tell you this, following BMW's maintinence schedule won't give you long term reliability!

lrguy44 · July 2007

In an earlier post I documented some of the reasons it will not work. In addition, I might add that when I desk a deal, I price my vehicle according to what the customer desires and what other LR dealers in the area are doing. I do not price trying to beat a Lexus or other off brand.

stickguy · July 2007

a couple of points:

1) Volvomax, there is a big incentive for negotiations/concessions. That would be the thousands of units piling up behind the factory. Just because you are buying direct doesn't mean they won't continue to crank out product. They just won't have the dealers to foist it off on!

2) The closest model I can think of to the direct sale nirvana is euro delivery. Since all of the details are set, the "selling" dealer is basically just an order taker, since you are ordering it from the manufacturer, under their terms, and picking it up from them.

So, the theoretical model would still require a storefront presence, for service, test drives, paperwork, etc. Not all that much different than when Gateway started the Gateway stores, or the dell kiosks (in concept)

A manufacturer could, I suppose, hire a retail operation (say, Carmax?) to handle the customer interface if they wanted, but it would be of real limited value.

Actually, I believe one of the botique lines is being sold this way (through Penske dealers?), maybe the Smart? Although that might be the same type of dealer arrangement.

Anyway, as a buyer, there really isn't anything in the model for me, since I doubt that I would get a better deal, and it will be way easier to grind (err, negotiate!) with a local dealer!

mackabee · July 2007

I had a brand new sales manager come in from another store to work with us. He was a bit cocky and arrogant. The first deal I worked with him went pretty much as you describe although I was not drunk. I had shown a Celica GT to a family on the lot on a slow Saturday. It seems they had walked through the showroom and seen the GT inside but no one came up to help them. They did not want to test drive it but the wife says to me. "I'm coming back next week to get the one in the showroom.!" I've heard this many times and never seen the customer again so I said "Sure."
The following wednesday they come in and she says "I told you I'd be back. Let's get the paperwork started." So I did as told. Full sticker deal, no questions asked. I had all my paperwork in the deal folder and dropped it on his desk. "Load it up please." I said. "He starts looking at the paperwork and asks; "What are we selling the car for?"
"It's right on the window sticker." I reply and his jaw just dropped. It was priceless.
:shades:
Mackabee

mackabee · July 2007

Pretty much. We appraise the vehicle based on its condition. ACV. Most customers appreciate it since we don't leave any room to "negotiate" as in a traditional sale.

Mackabee

greanpea68 · July 2007

It's right on the window sticker."

NICE!!! :shades:

joel0622 · July 2007

In an earlier post I documented some of the reasons it will not work. In addition, I might add that when I desk a deal, I price my vehicle according to what the customer desires and what other LR dealers in the area are doing. I do not price trying to beat a Lexus or other off brand.

Exactly. When I am desking deals I could not give a flip what the other brands cars are priced at. As a matter of fact I absolutely love it when a customer tells me they can buy another brand cheaper. With out missing a beat I reply "folks if you are basing this soley off of price you are probably going to be buying a (insert other brand here) but if it is quality and value for your dollar then I believe we are going to be able to help you."

That takes the the other brand off the table and now all you are doing is selling your product, not selling against your competition. But lets keep that between you and me.

joel0622 · July 2007

There is a bar here? Dang how did I miss it? Corona please.

british_rover · July 2007

Yeah sometimes I will substitute Triple Sec or some other orange Liqueur for the Grand Mariner just for that reason. The drink is still good just not as good as before.

My two roommates in college were on their way to be like your co-worker there. I finally put my foot down one morning when I woke up and they are sipping fuzzy navel wine coolers, someone brought them to the party then forgot them, left over from the party the night before and eating cheerios.

They protested...

"But it has Orange Juice in it." :surprise:

but I made them go dry for a while and really cut back on partying. I did the whole, "this hurts me more then it hurts you," gig as I was the bartender at the parties we threw.

err ON TOPIC:

A few weeks ago I sold a Lexus GX470. We used to be able to sell one of these a month and make 1,000-1,500 of gross on everyone. Something in the market changed so we couldn't sell the previous one at all and this one I sold for a 800 dollar loss.

Now it has become one of those blacklisted cars that we won't even try to retail here.

The guy on this GX kept asking me for my best price the whole time during the test drive. I kept putting him off telling him to wait till we got back to make sure he really liked the car. He must have asked me a dozen times what I would sell it to him for.

We get back to the lot and park the truck. He asks me again what I will sell it to him for. I tell him whatever it says on the window sticker is what I WANT to sell it to him for. Make an offer off that price and I will see what I can do.

I don't say anything for a minute and neither does he. It becoems a wating game to see who is more patient.

This guy is a Russian avionics engineer who plays competetive chess.

Unfortunately for him he doesn't stand a chance as has never met my wife. I have the patience of a saint, my own mother in law even says so, and I win.

He makes an offer that is about 3,000 below what we have the car listed for. We only have between 1,500 and 2,200 of markup in cars of that price range so I know his price is way too low. I also know that in 45 days he is the first person who has even looked at this car. I figure maybe I can try and bump him up a little bit or our UC manager can and we can get out of this car sideways.

I say lets walk in side see what we can do and he starts following me. Then I have a not so pleasent though and ask, "XX,XXX plus tax, tag etc right?"

He looks at me and goes, "oh no out the door all inclusive."

I stop dead in my tracks and tell him to have a nice afternoon as I look at him insulted.

He asks why what is wrong and I tell him that he has insulted me by thinking we have 6,000 dollars worth of markup in a car.

He doesn't say anything for a minute and then goes, "ok XX,XXX plus tax etc."

That is something I can work with so I start walking inside again and tell him, "ok that is a number we can talk about."

We go inside and I leave him in the waiting area while I talk to our UC manager.

to be continued...

epiney · July 2007

That's because by the time it gets to desking the deal, the buyer has already done the comparison with the other brands. Unless the final price comes back higher than their bottom line, it's unlikely the deal will fall through.

Prior to this point, pricing between makes matters a lot.

joel0622 · July 2007

Unless the final price comes back higher than their bottom line, it's unlikely the deal will fall through.

Possibly in your experience that it was you have seen. But if I relied on price always to sell cars I wouldn't sell half of what I do. To a good sales person price is the last thing they are worried about. There #1 priority is selling you on the benefits and features of the car you are interested in and having the consumer say "I'll take it", before the first pencil hits the paper.

There is a big difference between buying a car and being sold a car.

gasman1 · July 2007

Any fool can sell anything when they're giving it away (cheapest). It takes a professional sales person to sell the positive attributes that meet or exceed the buyer requirements.

stickguy · July 2007

now we have 2 unfinished stories hanging around!

british_rover · July 2007

I got tired of typing. I will try and make it just a two parter but I don't think I will be able to finish it till I get home.

kyfdx · July 2007

On most BMWs they are due every 30k. What the cars require varies a lot. I can tell you this, following BMW's maintinence schedule won't give you long term reliability!

True... but the 30K and 90K is Inspection 1.. 60K and 120K is Inspection 2.. With the 15K oil service, inbetween..

I know.. you know all that.. for the edification of others.

thenebean · July 2007

i hope someone is keeping track - we can't let these stories go unfinished! :P

so far:
mackabee - 1 story unfinished
british rover - 1 story unfinished

-thene

epiney · July 2007

I don't think that's what I meant. In a buyers mind the car is bought before the pencil hits the paper within the price range he has in mind. In considering the benefits and features you are always comapring it the benefits and features of other makes and relative prices until the time you say "I'll take it". If thats's what you mean when you start desking a deal, then that's what I mean't when the brand comparing by the customer is already over. The only reason he may mention the competing brand's price is a negotiating tactic to try to get a better deal. If he really wanted the other car, he would be sitting at the other dealer desking it. It only falls apart if his walk away price can't be met.

If that's not you meant, then I'm confused. Then again, I'm not a typical buyer and probably harder to sell to.

qbrozen · July 2007

heck, i can swear BR has a couple of stories from the past where he has told us, "i can't tell it now. gotta wait a little while. then i can tell it." something to do with legalities or superstition. I'm not sure which. Maybe both.

I wish I could figure out a way to search for those posts, but there's no way I can remember exactly what he said.

lrguy44 · July 2007

Very few of the people I sell have finished research before we do numbers. Again, I sell the car on value and meeting the needs and wants of my customer, not to mention emotion. Many times they will have my number, look at cheaper cars, and come back and buy. People do not have their mind made up usually before you desk the deal. Price is certainly an important ingredient, but not usually the deciding factor between brands. If it was, we would all be suffering Cobalt disease. The demonstration and meeting of needs is what makes a salesman - low price makes an order taker!

mackabee · July 2007

"The demonstration and meeting of needs is what makes a salesman - low price makes an order taker! "
I whole heartedly agree with you on this statement. At every dealership there are a few salesman and lots of order takers. For example; this past Saturday one of our "order takers" is on the lot and "upping" every customer in sight and turning them over to other sales people. I go up and ask him "What are you doing?" and he says "They are looking for new cars. I want to sell a used car so I can get my unit bonus." he says. "Wait a minute, so you are letting other sales people sell this customers when you could have sold them and move on to another? I don't get it. You don't have confidence in your abilities as a salesman?" I ask. "What do you mean?" he asks. "Well, what I mean is a good salesman always gives a customer a choice. If they are looking for new why not offer them a 1 or 2 year old vehicle that's going to save them some money?." I tell him. "No, I rather just wait to get someone that wants a used car." :sick: This guy is not what you would call the brightest light bulb in the house. He wasted practically the entire day waiting for someone that was going to buy a used car. I don't understand. :confuse:
Mackabee

lrguy44 · July 2007

I would fire him in a heartbeat. Everybody is offered a swithch vehicle - 1 up and 1 down to make sure you are on the right car.

volvomax · July 2007

Uh yeah.
Everyone would pay all the money,so everyone gets equally screwed.
That is great!

volvomax · July 2007

I've got news for you.
Most dealers make more on Euro delivery cars than they do on in stock units.
We LOVE Euro delivery.
No negotiation,no floorplan,instant profit.

madmanmoo · July 2007

Question is, did the dim bulb light up?

-Moo

dino001 · July 2007

C'mon - you know it's a distortion. There is a certain small group of consumers (perhaps 10-20 percent), who fall victims of those legal, but hardball tactics, like "full-pop" leases, overinflated financing rates, low-ball trades, "stolen" customer rebates, etc. Don't tell me they're not there. Definitely not Edmunds readers.

Those people would probably benefit from set-price environment.

lrguy44 · July 2007

But if we use your figure of 10-20% that would benefit, that means 80-90% would be hurt. What is the benefit of that?

roadburner · July 2007

True... but the 30K and 90K is Inspection 1.. 60K and 120K is Inspection 2.. With the 15K oil service, inbetween..

Well, that's true on the later cars, but most pre-2000 Bimmers call for the more frequent intervals.

lilengineerboy · July 2007

True... but the 30K and 90K is Inspection 1.. 60K and 120K is Inspection 2.. With the 15K oil service, inbetween..

Well, that's true on the later cars, but most pre-2000 Bimmers call for the more frequent intervals.

That always cracked me up, in the 80s, all the yuppies complained that BMW service was too expensive. Then in the 90s they went to the "we pay maintenance" plan. Now, they just eliminated the services so they wouldn't have to pay for them either.

oldfarmer50 · July 2007

I have no idea what they spend, I bet it's a lot. Screamer ads or any print ad have no impact on me. Most of those ads are inaccurate, misleading or total BS.

I would like to see dealers spend their ad money on websites that are real-time up to date. I'd like to see a car on the site the moment it is ready for sale, with a picture and all the important info. I'd also like sold cars removed as soon as they drive off the lot.

Another idea would be to have an "on deck" list of cars which have just come in on trade but haven't been re conditioned yet.

mackabee · July 2007

So we begin looking at vehicles and by this time Mrs. Johnson has at least come to the conclusion that she must have the middle row with the three seats. I look at the inventory on hand and there are none. "I'll tell you what. Let's get back in the van. They dropped off some new cars this morning so there might be one in there." Today is my lucky day as I find not one but two Siennas with the 8 passenger configuration. One is white and the other silver pine which is more of a green than silver. I open up the white one and Mrs. Johnson sits on the driver's side and looks at the dashboard and asks me what this doesn't have that the XLE has. I run down a list of equipment and point out what it does have such as the safety features. By this time Mr. Johnson is ready to go home and makes it known. I ask them when they will be making a decision and Mrs. Johnson tells me they have to go home and sit down and decide whether to add leather or not. She also mentions her in-law will be coming in tonight and has told her not to do anything until they confer with him. He has told them to buy the car over the internet. "Is that possible?" she asks me. "Sort of." I reply. "You still have to come down and deal with a live person like me." "I'll tell you what. Let's do this. You have another 15 minutes?" ........................TO BE CONTINUED.
:shades:
Mackabee

dino001 · July 2007

I feel like defending something I do not want to defend. I said that before - I'm not for mfr-run stores. I'm merely trying to see the other side and possible benefits, if any. One of them is that some people don't get hurt a lot at relatively small-to-medium expense of others.

Why small? Mfr. run stores would probably be run on a sticker price, but the sticker would likely be lower than now. Reason being - if they now accept invoice price (and lets assume for the moment it's profitable), all they would need is to offset an added expense due to running outlets - plus some extra profit, but not much. So standard markup would likely be lower than now. Conclusion? One price (sticker), but lower than today's.

lrguy44 · July 2007

This couple that I have conferred with over the internet shows up for the long awaited test drive. They inform me that they are trying our dealership because of problems they encountered at a competitive store. We test drive 3 cars and sit down to run numbers. The trade is VERY high in miles and over 11 years old. They did not like the fact that the highest bid I got was $2000 below their expectations. They decide to leave and think about the deal.
So I go back to work and 5 minutes get an angry call. "You tampered with our car - we are stuck about a mile down the road!"
I try to calm them down and say I will there in a jiffy. I ask our manager if he drove the car - he said no. When I get to the dead vehicle the customer swears we broke his transmission and the car will run but not move. I did notice a BIG fluid slick in our parking lot, but it was not transmission oil.
More in a minute....

kyfdx · July 2007

Anything pre-E46 should probably have service every 6 months/6K at the very least... maybe twice that often...

E46 and later? Who knows.. Two of them on the factory intervals and no problems, as yet... but, admittedly, not a lot of miles, either.

lrguy44 · July 2007

So back at the dealership he keeps saying that it is our fault. The car gets towed in and service and we put them in a loaner. Turns out the xfer case had slipped into neutral and the car blew a power steering hose - not to mention all the seals that were leaking, not weeping, oil.
He authorizes the repair and acknowledges that the car had been leaking for several weeks.

geffen · July 2007

Did they finally decide to buy a car since theirs is in the shop?

volvomax · July 2007

Absolutely 100% WRONG.
All the mfg would be doing is asdsuming the dealers burdens, land,taxes, salaries,advertising,etc.

The price wouldn't be ANY lower.
MSRP's wouldn't drop because of the damage to the ALG and used car prices.
The only difference is that 100% of the profits would go to the corporate bottom line.
EVERY consumer would be hurt in that they wouldn't have the option to shop for a better price.
I really don't know how to make this any clearer.

lrguy44 · July 2007

We should know tomorrow

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