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Comments
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
With me it happened once with Toyota, twice with Nissan and twice with Honda. This is when I purchased 2 vehicles within 3 months in 2004. A couple of times the excuse was the car had been sold, a couple other times the car had been damaged by a salesman moving it and it was in the body shop. Should have said I'd still like to see it.
I do appreciate mac confirming my suspicions though, I didn't think I was paranoid enough to think all car salesmen were out to get me.
That’s the way it should work and it would definitely work that way with me but something tells me it doesn’t work that way often enough for dealers to stop that practice. Most dealerships have been in business a long time and they know how to sell cars so if they thought their business practice wasn’t working, they would stop poor practices.
I could be wrong but most buyers only THINK they know what they want and what they want to spend. This has to be one of the reasons buyers are so far in over their head that most will never get out from under their poor decisions.
Come to think of it, I don’t think I am wrong but maybe one of the guys in the biz will confirm this or shoot me down. Remember their sales 101 line? -- “If you don’t ask you won’t get”.
I think they get enough often enough to continue with the way they are going.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I could never figure out why some stores made such huge deals about it. Now I know.
The front page of the Automotive News this week has a a headline that reads
GM: Dealers rig customer satisfaction surveys.
It goes on to say that GM is tossing out survey results from some dealers last quarter because they tampered with them. The way they got caught is that now allot of people fill out there survey online, well these Rocket Scientist at the dealerships were filling out the surveys for customers from dealership computers.
They were telling customers that if they bring the survey to them they will give them a full tank of gas.
As I read the article I was still confused as to why some one would compromise the integrity of there store over a few % points. Then I read this.
GM Dealerships that meet factory targets for sales and customer satisfaction qualify for quarterly bonuses. Here are potential bonuses for several size Chevrolet dealerships.
Annual Sales
5200 or more $420,000
2900-3299 $231,000
1200-1399 $100,500
700-799 $60,000
1-99 $13000
Here is a link I found to the story on another web site.
link title
Careful now. I’m not in the biz and I don’t appreciate being put in the same boat (or sentence) as those guys.
Mack is a salesman, Joel is an F&I guy (no, that isn’t a swear word), I don’t know Houdini1 very well but I’m sure he’s not in the biz cause he talks like a buyer and Jipster well he’s paranoid and doesn’t even know it. :confuse:
So, if you’re going to hang out here learn your players (oops, I better not say that. This isn’t a sports site although you wouldn’t know that if you tuned in here lately). Name calling is OK, to a point, but let’s not put people in the wrong boat. That’s a good way to get the non-biz guys fired up.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don't even want to think about having to give back a big quarterly bonus like that.
Instead, they should maybe suggest an alternative.
Makes no sense!
Right, we'll need to put you in the most appropriate boat then ...a dingy. :P
Myself,richard and the rest of the guys in the biz, will be riding around in gg's yacht. We'll let mac tag along as he know's all those Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders.
Yeah, the article mentioned that one dealer quoted a figure of $700 per car. The customers giving the surveys for a tank of gas are getting clubbed like baby seals. They need to bargaining for part holdback
Mack
That's why it's unlikely the vicious circle will ever stop. Dealers pull stunts like this and customers lie and play games to defend themselves. Dealers escalate the stunts and even ones that try to play fair are pressured into some tactics. For buyers with thinner skins and less confident about their knowledge, it can be very nerve racking. The guys buying here have learned to sift through them.
How many times have you heard "Come in and we promise to make it worth your while" "We guarantee that we will not be undersold on price" We will beat any price" It's amazing how fast they backpedal on that stuff when you call them on it. That stuff just rolls off off like water off the back of a duck for me, but you can see how they can be a flash point for the tirades that are posted.
I have a lot more respect for someone that doesn't make these claims they can't keep and deals more straight up.
:mad:
Mackabee
Annual Sales
5200 or more $420,000
2900-3299 $231,000
1200-1399 $100,500
700-799 $60,000
1-99 $13000
This just confirms at least two things to me about the car biz. I know there are a lot more but I’ll give others a chance to also respond:
(1) Us buyers will never figure out how to get the best price. Maybe the ones who shop until they drop are the ones who get the best deals. And we all laugh at them, huh. Well, guess whose laughing as they are driving all the way home from their dealership?
(2) Car manufactures charge waaaaay to much for their wares.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack
You need to check your employment contract. It is more than likely the dealer is absolutely covered. In all the commisions plans I have seen, there is a always a clause that says the employer can modify it at any time for any reason. Good judgement is usually applied though. I'm not an expert, but I suspect the only claim you may hav eis discrimination if the rules are not applied evenly.
I had this happen to me when I bought my Tacoma in 1995. Paper advertised one w/ all the equipemnt I wanted at a great deal. Called to verify, they confirmed it was there so I went to the dealer and of course it was not there. I was 25 and this was my first buying experience so I should have been suspect of trying to buy the truck in the ad. Lesson learned there. Still got what I thought was a good deal on another truck that I enjoyed so it was not a total loss.
Now, there was another Toyota dealer about 50 min up the raod in a small town, known for good deals etc. If I would have driven up there and had the same experience, I would have come unglued!
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I think the definition of best price is a moving target. What exactly is it anyways? If you mean the absolutely lowest price on that model in that month, then there is only one person that will get the best price.
My defintion is a bit different. I am usually pretty specific on model, color, options so I don't expext to get the blow out deal unless I am willing to compromise on something. I think I know more than most about the vehicle and market pricing and a little bit about the sales process. So I expect a better deal than average, say in the top 10 to 15 percentile of deals. To drive a better deal then I am starting to get diminishing returns for my time investment.
That's the way I look at "best price" for me.
A trip to Mexico is a reward??? I think I'd take the cash option on that one.
I would have told some one to shove there pay plan up there 4th point of contact and been at the house before they had a chance to respond.
I will work as hard and smart as I can for any one, the only thing I want in return is to be rewarded for my effort. Start screwing with my pay and I am out the door.
Is your pay plan in writing and signed by you and your supervisor? If it is then I would say that you don't have a complaint. If it is one of those "changes" they made on the fly then I would raise the roof on the place till I got my $500 back.
If someone thinks they "got clubbed like a baby seal" over $300-$700 of holdback, they do not know the meaning of the term. First of all, most sales departments are not paid on holdback, it does not enter into the sales dept net or gross profits, and they could give a rip about it. Dealers do have to make a profit and $500 gross per car is not a net profit.
I agree with you. Unless you shop until you drop how do you really know? The best price for me is when the dealer agrees to my price. Some may say that I am willing to pay too much and that might be true but I feel confident in how I do my research so why should I change? I haven’t talked to any honest buyers who know how to do it better.
If you mean the absolutely lowest price on that model in that month, then there is only one person that will get the best price.
Now, having said what I just said above, I got a dumb luck deal like this when I bought in 2005 but since I’m a pretty sane person I don’t expect to get that kind of deal again (I’m just happy I got it once). I didn’t when I bought in 2006 but I think I still got a good deal that time anyhow.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Relax, you need to look at the winking emotorcon at the end of the sentence.
Go ROX and Indians. If that is the world series, I have to wear a ROX hat and Indians shirt.
Thank you, that makes me the Captain. :P :P
BTW, you're on Report.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It sounds like your store has changed and not for the good.
I would have trouble working there. I don't think I would.
There's no cash option. And I would have loved to go. We haven't had a vacation to speak of since I came down with cancer. The last three years have been nothing but pure hell with bits of heaven sprinkled in. The trip is to Playa Del Carmen in the Yucatan peninsula in between Cancun and Cozumel. I've been to Cancun and Cozumel back in 1999 on a cruise I won and had a great time. This trip is an "all inclusive" so everything is paid for at the resort. When the contest began I told my wife to get the passports ready and pack a light bag. I was number uno, the big cheese, el chingon, the big kahuna, for the three months of the contest and when the winner's list came out my name was not on it! WTF! pardon my french but I was very upset.
Every one I asked just passed the buck. So I missed the trip by .25% even though I outsold the one that took my place by 12 cars and they don't get surveys. :confuse:
Anyway, enough venting. I'm leaving in about an hour and a half to Waldorf MD to visit Mack Jr. Mrs. Mack Jr. and Mackabeeto
So, they pull tricks and lie to customers in ordr to get them in the door. They know that often these people can be switched to another car.
And, on the other side, greedy cheapskate customers hellbent on paying the least they possible can for a car often resort to behavior a lot of people wouldn't believe.
Some would argue that they bring it on themselves.
I also wonder how the sales guys come out on this...do they get a cut or is it just for the dealership same as holdback and to some extent the dreaded 'DOC FEES'?
Now when I get the "At that price we would not have any profit" am I going to believe the sales guy/ sales manager?
The grass isn't always greener either.
Your store changed but you didn't.
As far as best prices when negotiating...we've all ballyhooed our own strategies here ad nauseum.
Truth is, there are way too many variables to state emphatically "my way gets the best deal".
Best advice...
1. Do your research
2. Don't be afraid to walk
3. Be confident
4. Don't be paranoid
5. Remember, it's you money
I don't know what you mean about AD FEES showing up on invoices. If an item is on the invoice, it will show dealer cost and MSRP. If you are talking about RAG fees, they are a cost to the dealer. Now some dealers on some cars will add an ADDENDUM (and call it market adjustment) to a MSRP. That is strickly dealer markup and adds to the gross profit of the sales dept and can and should be negotiated.
Hey, re: the Pix of Manny. He can't be explained. Just Manny being Manny. Pedro has been w/The Mets for a couple of years. He was (and still may be) just magnificent to watch. His one hitter/17k game against the Evil Empire IN New York may have been the finest pitching that I've ever been in awe of (no offense, Tom Seaver and the "Imperfect Game." Thanks, Jimmy Qualls!).
Brockton ROX, you're routing for the Brockton ROX? Cool, but they ended their Can-Am league a month ago (they are partially owned by Bill Murray...). Good for you! Maybe you meant the SOX! Yeah, that's it... SAWX!
Pats/Brownies: Another Belichick disciple working the Cleveland sidelines in Romeo Crenel. Should be a close game...until it starts, that is!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I raised 4 kinds of hell with Ford and got no where. So I asked my Warranty Clerk to pull what we call a 2106 report. It shows contracts sold that Ford had not charged us for yet.
Guess what? The lady who punched contracts for us failed to punch the last 15 prior to the contest ending. She punched them two days after the NLT date. Said she forgot to include them on her close schedule.
The lesson I learned is never let any one else control the results of my actions. Since that day I have reported warranty sales for the dealership.
Hell i probably could not have afforded the 1099 for it anyhow so it may have been a blessing in disguise
You’ve got another poster buddy rootin for ya.
Enjoy your visit with the family, we’ll handle the weekend duty for you.
Waldorf MD, if I’m not mistaken that’s just up the road from Patuxent River Naval Air Test Station (my old Navy base at Lexington Park MD.).
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Catch 22. Sell a bunch of contracts at cost to win the contest, but not make enough margin to pay the tax on the 1099 or sell lees contracts at profit and lose the contest. Hmmm what to do, what to do :confuse: :P