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Comments
Oh I hope she who must be obeyed doesn't see you calling me "Hunny"
Anyway, there are always alternatives and other lines of work. My point is that just about every job has its downsides and you either let them roll off you like water of a ducks back or get ulcers, or find another line of work.
If you do taxes, you are prolly one of the view people that, gets the same looks I get when I tell people how I make my living.
Actually people understand tax work. Most people have taxes done far more often than they buy cars. But taxes is just a side line I have a "real" job that gets some odd replies. I work for the Tollway (in finance) and just about everyone asks me which toll booth. :sick:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sometimes when we get trade ins they only come with 1 key, and usually management doesn't want to spend the extra for a second one, in order to save money as you pointed out.
I usually bring it up before the deal is done, so if the cost needs to be included into the deal then it is in advance.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have no problem with a reasonable doc fee. It is convinient not having to go down to the DMV. Time is money.
But thanks to this forum, from now on I will only look at OTD price. I could care less how they breakdown the price. Charge me $1 for the car, and $35k in doc fees, it makes no difference to me. :shades:
Luckily for car salesmen out there
In my experience that's the only way to work a deal so that you don't have to screw around with all that garbage about fees.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
When I first signed onto edmunds town hall way back when I was under the impression that all dealers are out to get you and that every car should be sold for invoice minus incentives minus holdback. When negotiating the purchase of my '01 Prelude Type SH (which I bought as a leftover in late April 2002) I almost didn't pull the trigger because I couldn't understand why the dealer wouldn't sell me the car cheaper than invoice (it had been sitting for 6 months, and I had read on edmunds that people were buying them for $1500 under invoice).
I learned from reading everyone's great posts (isellhondas, mack are the 2 that stick out from the beginning). When I decide on a car, do my research, make a fair offer, & don't be a grinder.
The dealer I bought the car from treated me right. They went and swapped for my car 75 miles away in Jersey. Even though I agreed to buy a lot queen at invoice, they went out of their way to follow up with me when the car would be in. I gave my salesman a perfect survey and serviced my car at the dealer for the next 6 years & almost 100K miles.
Almost 7 years after I bought my Prelude it has almost 109K miles (and is showing ZERO signs of aging) it doesn't matter what I paid for it. The joy of driving I get from it every day is priceless.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Luckily for car salesmen out there
Actually, I think most salespeople would feel lucky to have an educated customer, as most are realistic and reasonable.
It would be much worse spending half a day with an "uneducated" consumer who test drives everything, and finally wants a $200 payment on a $40,000 car with no money down, and thinks his car is worth $xxxxx because that's what he owes.
Yeah, but you aren't going to be able to club them like a baby seal.
Amen!
Richard
Richard
In reality you do have to look at everything and concern yourself with more than the OTD number as there is usually fine print in the contract that says something like "If the dealer incorrectly figures sales tax or state registration fees, then they have the right to come after you for the difference".
It happenned to me, trading in a Honda Odyssey that I was leasing. I had to purchase it from the leasing company then trade it in, dealer forgot to charge me sales tax on the purchase from the leasing company. Also, in some states the sales tax rate could be different in neighboring counties and they could easily enter the wrong county.
The only number that I care about is the number that the dealer figures sales tax on, which will include all dealer fees. The other fees on the contract are state fees which the dealer collects and merely passes them along to the state. The contract covers me in case I find out later that the fees were over estimated and I can go back to them for the difference, as well as they can ask me for more if they were under estimated and I'll know it is a legitimate request.
I agree.. I feel that OTD is the most reasonable way to purchase a car.
Some inexperienced people prefer to have the price broken down and question the fees or just want to grind. We all pay an OTD price!
Replies to this message:
I couldn't agree more
GP
Paying sales tax on separate "fees" charged by the dealer has never made sense to me. I know why the states do it (money grab) but it still seems odd to me. On our last car purchase I asked the dealer if we could pay the fees as a separate transaction and he said no way.
I have known people that build a new house who pay the builder separately, and outside the original contract for certain items that they might later decide to include. This keeps the contract cost down and saves on property taxes. Sounds shady but I don't know if it is actually against the law.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Agree, also paying sales tax on the dollar amount BEFORE a manufacturer's rebate doesn't make sense to me.
But, I think this is where those "bad 'ole dealer" stories comes from. It's not the big stuff. Usually, most can spot that.
It's the little "niggly" things like charging for an extra key. Doesn't matter whether they were missing the 2nd key or not when it was traded. During reconditioning, the car should either come with the 2nd key, or one should be made to replace it.
It's akin to going to a nice steak restaurant and ordering the best T-bone on the menu. When it arrives, it's raw. Then, having the waiter say..."Oh, you wanted that cooked? That's an extra $10."
My friend who bought the Cobra, also bought a new F-150 for his wife at the same time. Looking at the sticker, it said it should have come with a power sliding rear window. It didn't. They didn't notice that fact during the test drive. But, they did notice it when the sales person was doing final delivery of the car and going over its features (after all the F&I paperwork was done). When my friend and the salesman noticed that, and rechecked the sticker, it was indeed supposed to have that feature. Someone at the factory obviously had a bad day when assembling and QC. It slipped through the dealer's QC, also.
When the omission was discovered, the salesman went to his manager with the news. His reply? It's a done deal, but they could pay to have the correct sliding rear window installed.
Understand, my friend just finished dropping over $60K on two vehicles. Yet, the dealership didn't want to "make right" what was a clear mistake on Ford's part, and the dealership's part.
End result, they ended up deducting the cost of the power sliding rear window from the deal. But, not before my friend made mention that he was going to "stop pay" on the check he just wrote....and, that he'd be buying neither car, until things were made right.
To me, these are simple customer service issues that should be "no brainers" to solve. Yet, some dealers make the customer jump through hoops, and needle them to get to a beneficial solution.
The dealers are the experts on the options that should be on a particular vehicle. For the dealer to have failed that trust is their responsibility. Your friend should have said just take the truck off the bill and I'll take the Cobra alone. :sick: If the manager's approach is "Too bad for you" about a wrong window, who knws what else he'll screw the customer on. :shades:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Charge-backs are costs associated after the deal is done. For example if the key is $100, and he's on 25% commission, they'll adjust (deduct) his commission by $25, or they'll deduct $25 off his paycheck.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I agree, it's stupid but a rebate technically is supposed to be money sent to you from the manufacturer after the purchase, where as a discount is taken off before the purchase.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I agree about the small things that can turn a deal sour.
Sometimes a deal can turn sour on a used car at the end because:
Big doc fee
One key only (extra one is $100)
Gas tank not full
No owner's manual
:sick:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Yes, all used cars "should" come with extra keys, owner's manuals, floor mats etc but sometimes, they don't.
And, yeah, if these items are missing the selling dealer should replace these items even if it's a brand they don't sell new.
And that same dealer " should" make a good profit on this car!
But, sometimes they don't. Maybe this used Volvo has been sitting on the lot for three months after the dealer spent 2000.00 in reconditioning (typical Volvo).
The car finally sells at a loss to a guy who spent three hours grinding every last penny out of the deal. No, problem! The car needed to go.
Ah, but alas, when the salesperson go's to look for the extra key, there isn't one!
Then what?
I guy at work bought a 2005 Ford 500 He was missing the keyless remote so he ordered one on line for $10. I tried to find it and this place will give you the whole key for about $125 plus programming cost, BUT they also sell manuals!!
Keyless remote/manuals
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Funny thing is that once they finally came through they had ordered two key fobs so i have an extra one of those.
Nutty.
Ah, but alas, when the salesperson go's to look for the extra key, there isn't one!
Then what?
I suppose you are speaking directly to me again. :sick:
The answer is elementary my dear isell.
Do your homework and know there is no second key before negotiations start. Nobody wants to be getting into their brand new used car and be told it's a $100 for another set of keys... what would bobst think for corn sakes! :surprise:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If Bobst is true to his principles, he would simply walk.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Then what?..."
Pray to god that the buyer's name isn't Bobst!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
* They have 70 bays and are adding 64 more.
* They sold over 6500 cars last year.
* It was started by a husband and wife with just 6 cars.
* They are located out in the country, about 25 miles from any city.
* The company is based on Christian biblical principles that accentuate honesty
and integrity (their words)
* They had more customers than they could supply cars for.
* They have over 500 cars for sale on their lot...before the expansion
* They are buying mini trucks from Japan just fill a niche market - small delivery trucks.
* This is the biggest one........They put the price on the windshield and that is the final price. The owner said on TV, if the car is $19,999 I won't accept $19,990!Haldimand Motors
Remember the prices are in Cdn dollars so subtract 20%
One of our employees got a car there and he is very happy with their service and attitude. They seem very fair and ethical. They have a huge repeat business.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I guess if you appeal to a certain religion, it will help with sales.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
“Christ is the head of this company;
the unseen partner in every transaction;
the silent listener at every conversation;
the final judge of all decisions.
In His love this company is kept,
And to His glory this company is dedicated.
”The website is at;
Haldimand Motors
I didn't know anything about the religion thing until I looked at the website, so I don't think that is a big factor in driving sales. It probably turns off as many people as it attracts....I think they just have a big selection, they send around a booklet almost every week full of cars for sale, really good prices, and they are very honest (and that isn't necessarily because they are religious).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
He may have had me in mind for those thoughts. The salesman actually thought the extra key was in the car folder. We discussed this BEFORE the deal closed. While I was in F&I, he went to get the key. When he couldn't find it, he ordered it before I left the lot. He went against the boss on this one I believe. Still, he honored his part of the deal. Fortunately, the four mats and the manual were in the car.
I don't want my salesman to suffer a charge back on this. Instead of the $100 gift certificate, I'm going to put $100 in an envelope and give it to him. That way, if there was a charge back, he will get it from me plus a token of our appreciation. He really is that Super Salesman that all customers hope that they can meet when they go to purchase a car.
Richard
They have over 650 cars on their lot at any one time.
http://www.blueknobauto.com/
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
How do they get the name "Blue Knob" car sales?
Our guys are selling just over 500 cars a month, but they will almost double their size when the new extension is added. It is an interesting concept though, honesty, pay their employees bonus's for good work, they put the best price possible right on the windshield so there is no clobbering like a baby seal. They let you drive the car for 10 days and return it if not satisfied, they will sell you warranties, and they work with you. The fellow at work bought his and they had to do some repairs to the electronic speedometer and it took awhile to get parts (that were made in Mexico), and they offered to let him pick out another car if he wanted. He waited and he's very happy with his car.
Quite the concept, trust and honesty!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Remember, you have to drive about 25 miles to get there...so people actually go out of their way. And, if you need servicing you have to go back there. So, whatever they are doing, they are doing it right. I don't think the religious thing is the main factor, it is more the total honesty and trust.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have a good friend at work (worked with him since the late 80's), that's originally from Altoona PA. He buys all his cars from this place, says they are good.
Maybe I should check with them to see if they've bought any Genesis program cars.
Now that I think of it, he can't be all that good of a friend because he's the one that got my old company to go get me out of retirement so that I could help him. Yeah, he's always been sneaky like that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
There is a little town near here called Blue Knob. It's also a ski resort. Maybe the owner is from there,or maybe they started there. I don't know.
I hate to think why it got called that. :surprise:
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
Genesis got a really good write up in our newspaper yesterday. It's the perfect car for the times.....an inexpensive luxury car that is made right in every way. Interior is nicer than many cars costing 10 to $15,000 more!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well, I guess it does get cold on the ski slopes
Don't know if I want that sticker on my trunk lid
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I was thinking of replacing it this summer when the extended warranty expires and have been contemplating another mini-van or possible trying to find a 2-3 year used large SUV like the Suburban, Expedition or the Sequia. I am at the early stages of research and looking for you sage folks to steer me into the right direction.
I would have checked to see if there was an extra key and if there wasn't one, I would have let my customer know that and I would have let him know that if he wanted one it would be on his dime.
It was much easier on the old days when keys were 2.00 to duplicate.
Best I can tell, it's just like those late night infomercials about how someone made millions flipping real estate with none of their own money out of pocket. Or, how someone is making a million/year selling "junk" on ebay...."we'll show you how".
I always ask myself......"if they're making so much money selling cars, real estate, ebay junk, why are they pedaling a book, a system, a how to?"
Business is business. Same rules apply for everyone. There are no "magic beans" that will do it for you.
Hopefully our HOSTS will see this and ban this guy!
Pure garbage!
Boom that is exactly what happened. It was charged to the deal. Unless the deal was done months ago and management made a exception. That key issue would have came up right away that month.... That is only because I know Richard wouldn't let anything slide. He is sticklar for deatils (please let em know how to spell that correctly) :P
Richard,
Also on that note. You probably made a friend for life for doing that Richard. I'll bet if you need anything and that salesperson is there he will remember you and do anything he can to help. I know I would. Also for what it is worth your stock went up 500 points with that gift. That shows me that you are really learning something here. Things are really tough these days and as much of a (I think the word was) schooch you have really shown your true colors :shades: Nice job.
GP