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2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Mark
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mackabee and I have "known" each other since the beginning of these forums which started in, I think, 1996 or 1997.
After awhile, It's almost like we actually know each other as friends and a friend he was. He shared a lot in personal email to me.
A good, honest person and a tribute to our business and to these forums.
Richard, thank you for doing what I had planned to do and no doubt you did it much better than I could have.
Mack, you will be missed. I know you are in a better place.
Sad day....
Godspeed, Mack.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That goes without saying.
Thanks for letting us know.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Thank you for passing along this very sad news. Macks posts were some of the first ones I read when I started on Edmunds in February 2005. They stood out because of his ability to win you over because of his honesty and sincerity. I have to admire him for his positive outlook and love of life, even through so much physical adversity.
He will be missed by all who knew him,
Driver
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He was the consummate professional and will be missed.
-Dan
It's not often I encounter one of the "lot lizzard types of sales people much anymore. But, the Hyundai sales person exemplified one. Really a turn off to me, and to my friend. Really untypical for this dealer group (who also has a Honda, Chevy, Acura store) since I've bought from them before. I suspect, knowing their culture (which is very professional) that he'll last there long.
oldfarmer....I think I'm a "father figure" to this lady, even though we're about the same age. That bothers me just a little bit. Last thing I need is any sort of friction between her best friend (the Altima lady) and her. I like simple, not complex.
And, I understand that residuals, particularly on Hyundai, is pretty dismal. Still, it makes more sense to me to strike a deal on a lease turn in, regardless of what the lease turn in amount is. Like any used car, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Someone, somewhere has to eat the delta between what the lease buy out price is, and what it's worth.
No matter, now it's getting dark. And, we both decide to call it a day. I take her home and tell her to think of what it is she might want, and to huddle up again.
This brings us to last night. She calls and says she's interested in a Camry, a Corolla, a Civic and an Altima (based on her best friend's new car).
"Gotta whittle that down even more. But, you already know what the Altima is, since you've been in your best friend's car. What kind of budget are you looking at?"
"I don't want to be car poor."
"Good thinking. Lease or purchase?"
"I want to keep this next car for a long time."
"OK, good.....let's rule out a lease, then. What's your price point?"
"$20,000....less is better."
"Well, you aren't going to get a loaded up Altima, or Camry for that amount. Maybe base models. Camry LE is going to be a bit above that price, but they've got 2.9 financing that might make that more palatable. Altima, similarly equipped won't make the cut price-wise, though. But, that price point should be well within reach on a Civic or Corolla."
We head to the Toyota store. Big difference in sales people. I've dealt with this store (and their sister Honda store) many times. I like dealing with them.
We find a Camry LE in a color she likes and we drive it. He points out that it has stability control, power everything, etc...and reminds us that there's 2.9% financing on it. She likes it, a lot. We tell the sales person we're going next door to look at Hondas. He gives us his card and tells us he would be happy to help if she decides on the Camry.
Getting to the Honda store, same professional attitude. We announce we're looking for Civics. Surprisingly, I'm kind of amazed their priced about the same as the Camry. She drives it. Likes it too.
I tell her it's decision time. She's got choose.....Camry or Civic....or maybe a Corolla.
That's where we're at now. She's driving a rental car.
As soon as she makes up her mind, we'll go back in and see if we can swing a deal.
Actually, Explorer had a good idea, getting a one month extension on the lease. He did it and I know I have done it. Seems the leasing company doesn't mind, and you can drive a car for an extra month or 2 at a reasonable cost.
You have done well to get her to this point, and she has two good cars to compare,
I just read in the paper today that the Japanese car makers are extremely worried about Hyundai these days. Worried because they know the quality is there and their labor costs are lower. Korean currency though hit, hasn't been hit as badly as Japanese. And, the biggest factor, Hyundai sales are actually growing in this economy and one of the few companies to be making record breaking profits.
Actually, buying a one or two year old Hyundai could be a very smart move......that way you win on the high depreciation, which the car doesn't deserve.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Oh it's deserved alright. It'll never be on a par with the Japanese. Once you start off like they did, forget about it. :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Most products are a little rough around the edges until they develop and decide what direction to take. The first Toyotas and Hondas were pretty crude too.
I'd be interested in your views of your Gennie, must be about a year since you got it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You've got a very good style as a "consultant" for these people. You have the knack for breaking down complicated decisions into simple "this or that" choices and presenting it in a way that doesn't feel like you're "selling".
People like that. Car buying, particularly for women, can be an overwhelming endeavor. Kind of like a guy shopping at Victoria's Secret. So many choices causes information overload.
These women are lucky to have you.
BTW, I'm looking at a junker van for the farm tomorrow, care to fly in to consult?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I kinda prefer Jockey Brand myself!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yeah, but they were from Japan. Can’t happen with anybody else. Hold on, I just got a flash thought. GM always thought they were always going to be the best so they told their buyers what they needed but pretty soon they found out you have to keep trying. Maybe the Koreans got the message.
I'd be interested in your views of your Gennie, must be about a year since you got it.
Nah, I bought it in March. Time flies when you’re having fun. It’s just a baby with 8000 miles; it’s not supposed to have problems yet. Unless you count 2 check engine lights. The first, about two weeks after I had it. The fuel sensors were confused after I filled it up one night and the next morning the light came on. The computer was reset and wah la the light went out and stayed out until I went on vacation and the light came on again while in Myrtle Beach. This time it was a false emissions signal.
I think it’s good for a million miles.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes, they were but when the Korean makes hit our shores, THEY were crude when Honda and Toyota weren't.
That was the problem!
And they shall remain "crude" forever, right?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No, not at all. As I have said in these forums, I think they have come a LONG way since their dismal initial offerings.
They should have brought a better product to the party when they tried to elbow themselves into an already crowded marketplace.
Some people still have the perception that they are inferior to other cars.
Anyone remember Daewoo? They didn't help the perception that the Koreans made substandard cars.
I agree but you can say the same about when the Japanese cars first showed up. They just kept working at it and with the help of Detroit arrogance they rose to the top.
Like I've said before, competition is good for the consumer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hard to say how you can break into an overcrowded market. I think they did it the best way possible. They were the low price leader, which gets them into the market. Then they work on the quality, but they keep the price pretty low. Then they start to add on some extras and bring the quality up, and they can start charging more. I think it was a perfect game plan.
Mitshubishi I think had a different game plan. Good quality and a fair price. Just can't get the numbers to make it all work.
I was thinking of this today when we went to a moderate priced restaurant we have here in Canada. It is called Swiss Chalet. A basic chicken dinner with fries or baked potato is about $7. But who is going to buy that when you can get the same dinner with soup and choice of pie for $10. So, they get the masses coming in, and try to get everyone to upgrade, with items that add a lot to the overall value, but cost the restaurant very little.
I think the Hyundai game plan worked quite well. One day, if the quality continues, they'll be able to raise their prices closer to the big boys.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Honda was doing fine until Acura came along 20 some years ago. Now Acura is their biggest competitor IMO. They sort of impose a ceiling on what Honda can do, and what would have been great Hondas (mid level segment) are now just average, or a little below, Acuras (competing in the luxury segment). Toyota is going thru the same thing now with Lexus.
Hyundai is doing amazingly well right now. I hope they can figure out how to make it work better than Honda and Toyota.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As with all our lives, and his as well. . .
TO BE CONTINUED. . .
May his stellar, upbeat attitude towards life, no matter how bad things got be an inspiration to us all.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD, 2025 Integra
i have to admit, i have always stayed with them.
Hyundai is building a base. I see 200x Hyundai's being replaced by a new one where i work.
So true -- to me it appears you fall into the same category.
It's interesting, borderline amazing, to see what kinds of relationships can be developed on the internet. Mack developed many good ones.
He will indeed be missed.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm guessing many of us were sorry when "Mack's" posts were no longer seen here -- I know I was. It's nice to have something resembling closure.
I was thinking the same thing. It seems so strange to feel so sad about someone I never actually met in person.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Maybe the car dealers should sell pie.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Drive what you're interested in. Decide what you want. Then, I can "do my thing". I can't decide that for you.
Went back at it yesterday. I thought we had a good deal on a Camry......$130 over invoice (including the doc fee) plus TTL on an LE plus 2.9% financing. She said she wanted to sleep on it. She called me later, and said she also wanted to drive a Honda CR-V (Arrrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!).
Just some general observations having been to 1 Honda store, 2 Toyota stores, 2 Nissan stores. There's good reason I have prefered dealerships I like to work with. They employ professional and knowledgeable sales people. I don't know if there are lots of "newbies" that have entered the car sales career path, but I think I've hit on a good number of them.
They can't seem to grasp simple sales concepts.....like answering direct questions and giving information that we ask that seems simple. Instead, some of these guys just won't get off their script, no matter what. Plus, they do very little in the way of finding out exactly what their customer is looking for. If they'd ask a few simple questions, their jobs would be so much easier.
Aside from the "lot lizzards", who only seem to be able to do one thing, that is to hammer on the theme of "let's make a deal" over and over, without finding out if their potential customer even liked the car that's being presented. There are those who just seem to repeat their scripted mantra over and over again....not listening to the key points their potential customer is looking for (or even finding out what those points might be).
One NIssan sales person in particular, annoyed me. We pulled up into the store's lot. I personally was immediately drawn to a 370Z. Looking at it, the sales person said "it costs you $10 just to look inside, and $25 for a test drive". Innocuous statement, perhaps. And, maybe I was tired and irritated at my friend's indecision at this point. But, that struck me the wrong way. And, not a good opening "ice breaker". I retorted, "I probably know more about this car than you do". I don't think I was too far off the mark, either. I continued......"she's here to look at Altimas (pointing to my friend). I'm just here for moral support".
This same sales person, upon hearing us doing a compare and contrast of an Altima vs a Camry, decided to deride the Camry, instead of pointing out the differences between the two. Bad move.
My friend said she was interested in the 2.5 S models, automatic, didn't want leather, nor a sunroof. Simple statements. So, what does he immediately do? He finds the one silver one with leather and a sunroof (even though there were 3 other silver ones with no leather, and no sunroof sitting right there) and sits her in that one and begins his pitch. He lost her right there, almost before he got started.
I know the sales people have a hard job. But, it seems the simple stuff would be the easiest to master. Listen to what the customer is asking and saying, and provide answers. Is that so hard?
As a buyer, I told my friend, once again, "decide what it is you want". I can't decide for her. And, I can't help until she actually decides.
With your lady friend, it may come down to you making the choice for her. Sounds as if she's going to be flip flopping quite a bit on this one. You might be doing both of yourselves a favor by strongly suggesting which car you think would be best for her.
GG, I wonder if you have hit a problem that is happening in sales these days. Many companies (not just car companies) think their sales people need a written script. They pay experts to figure out the best sales pitch possible, and they get upset if the sales person deviates from the script.
I think good sales people ask a lot of questions to find out what the customer really needs. I get a lot of sales people calling me at work and I try to listen to most of them because you never know if one of them has something you need. But, I really resent it if they don't ask a few questions to see if what they are selling even suits me. For example, a company calls and goes on about how they collect accounts receivables for just 10% of the amount only if they actually collect. This is worthwhile, but our customers are on consignment or cash only, so we almost never have a problem. A good opening line for them would be - Do you have problems collecting accounts receivables?
I'd be interested in finding out what the sales people know about scripts and how much lattitude they have when dealing with customers.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you scan a 1000 car lot you'll be lucky to find 2 in yellow.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I guess I could point her into what I think would suit her needs (I thought the Camry did that). She threw me for a loop when she said that she wanted to look at the CR-V, though. That means she doesn't even know what kind of vehicle she wants.
Heck, I could have done a similar deal on an Accord. Except, she noticed that the rear seat passenger safety rating was "only" 3 stars. OK, now I know what one of her hot buttons is.....safety. There's a lot of good safe cars out there. I still think Hondas are pretty safe.
I even told her I could get her a smoking deal on something like a Chevy Malibu or Impala.....probably even a Ford Fusion. She believes that the Japanese brands will last longer. I think that fact is debatable, but I'm not going to try to convince her differently.
She's a little bitty think. She likes sitting up high. So, that got her interested in the little SUVs. Still tough to get one of those for her $20K price limit....at least none equipped the way she wants.
I even suggested she look at some certified one year old vehicles. She wants new, though.
I, too would love to hear what kind of training "newbie" sales folks go through. It seems, at best weak, from what I can tell.
I am getting worried for you GG. I think you should take your wife along on these trips. Maybe she is just stalling to get a little more "help"
***Actually the CR-V might be worth a try, but won't it be over budget?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Next time she sits in or drives a car make sure the seat is in the highest position and forward so she can see... and reach the pedals. The Camry does have a rather high beltline.
Great story, by the way.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Did I "know" him? Not really but he would have been a welcome guest in our home.
It's funny who after a number of years and hundreds of posts, how we really get to know how people think and feel. We learn thier values and slowly learn details about thier lives and families.
I hold back a lot. I don't tell the stories I could tell because I know a lot of people know who I am and I wold hate for a customer to read about themselves.
I'm sure Mack tempered the stories he told but he told them well and from his heart.
His heart was a big one. He cared about his family, his customers and he cared about us. I won't forget him and he will be truly missed.
Oh yeh, I forgot about that. Do whatever you like then.
Just thought the next chapter would have some lines.............
The salesman showed us the Camry. I looked at her, and she was coyly looking back at me. She moistened her lips, and said, what do you think GG.
I glanced back as I said, "Your place or mine, and we can discuss this over a glass of wine"
"That sounds like a wonderful idea GG, she whispered to me, and maybe, just maybe.........
>
>
we should take the brochure on the Matrix - in case I change my mind again......
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Wise idea.......somehow these things can come back and bite you - you know where. Look at David Letterman. The surprising thing is the guy that was black mailing him was the guy who produces 48 Hours, isn't that an investigative news show? Shouldn't the producer of a show like that be better at black mailing than that? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250