The reality of the problem with the Toyota drive-by-wire system in the ES and Ava and now Camry are getting noticed. And some of them ain't falling for the factory reps with their it's all fixed posts and the you must be driving it wrong folks posts.
I keep thinking this is what people would have posted about GMs in the past.
I still see Chevettes running around this area, summer and winter. Occasionally there's a Pontiac 1000 version of same.
If Kirstie's heater blower wouldn't shut off, they were just making sure her air conditioning would work when she needed it; that's a failsafe design GM had implemented...
How can Aura be North America's "car of the year" and finish 4th in comparo's by car magazines. :confuse: If that doesn't sound like a conspiracy. :surprise: How can one magazine rate the camry's materials as poor and the Aura's good and then 3 others say the fit and finish of the Aura is poor. Good God folks :surprise: This is how conspiracy's get started. 1487, this is why car mags have lost all credibility with me. Where's the warranty points GM, deserves. Oh wait they only give them to Hyundai. :mad:
You couldn't have done a better job of sizing up the differences in markets.
Neither side has to be fair: it's their money and they will spend it as they see fit.
For me, maintaining a car that gets great gas mileage, has only the stuff on it I want, is a lot more satisfying than having to go out and research and (worse) talk to sales people every four or five years. If someone LIKES to do this, then fine, have fun, but I have different priorities for my time and money.
Honeslt, the only differentiator for Toyota is hybrid technology. If you want one, you better shop at Toyota but in every other segment there are alternatives that are as good, and in many cases cheaper.
1487,
For once we disagree because GM's 2-Mode hybrid system that is coming out is superior to Toyota's synergy system. GM, went in with DCX, BMW, to develop the 2-Mode and the system only costs the consumer roughly $2,000 extra. Toyota's Synergy system which was developed by only Toyota costs roughly $5-6K more because they weren't able to share R&D costs with two other car company's. Another disadvantage to the synergy is it doesn't have a highway mode to increase fuel economy thus GM, DCX, BMW will have the cutting edge until Toyota updates their synergy technology. However the bottom line is a Aura Greenline should be priced several thousands cheaper than a hybrid Camry
If Kirstie's heater blower wouldn't shut off, they were just making sure her air conditioning would work when she needed it; that's a failsafe design GM had implemented...
If only that were true. Heat on during winter AND summer, hombre. :sick: I don't believe that 'vettes came standard with A/C back in '84, and I sure as heck didn't (read: couldn't) pay for it.
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I watched Snow from C&D when they were discussing the finalists for the car of the year. He just kept saying the Accord was the best handling car in the midsize market for the money. They really do what they are for, folks who want cars that handle like sports cars.
The 49 journalist are a cross section of press writers from all across the nation. Snow was one of them and probably voted for a vehicle that met their ideals. He did say that he felt the Aura would win over the Camry. Just that if Accord was in the running he would have voted for it.
Nothing of significance lately pal. The UAW, did help get to pick the investors they wanted to buy into Delphi, because from what I read they wanted someone with long-term goals not a group looking to make a fast buck.
I missed out on making lots of money because I'm waiting on another settlement check I was going to use to invest a lot of dough in Delphi. I would of tripled my money if I would of had it a few months ago. :sick: I hope the share prices don't go up to fast because I want to still want risk some money.
I've always taken these car-of-the-year things with a grain of prozac ever since Motor Trend chose AMC Renault Alliance as the COTY in 1983. I mean, you didn't need to be a rocket-scientist to be wary of an AMC/Renault love child. Here's a list of all their winners over the years, which is kind of interesting reading I think.
MT COTY History While I was searching for that, I stumbled across THIS COTY competition, which has some finalists even more shocking to me than the Alliance:
How about these choices?
Audi Q7 Audi TT Citroen C4 Picasso Citroen C6 Fiat Grande Punto Jaguar XK Lexus LS 460 Mercedes CL MINI Suzuki SX4 / Fiat Sedici 2007 World COTY finalists
Call me biased, but a Suzuki and a Fiat and two - count em - two Citroens? Well!
Note: this should not be taken to impugn Saturns victory as NACOTY - that's entirely different.
Now, Now Citroens are great cars. Just because they areen't sold in the US does not mean they are bad.
And the Grande Punto is supposed to be a great little micro car from everything I have heard.
I haven't taken a Q7 in trade yet which makes me think it must be doing very well. Normally any new released SUV is traded in on a Range Rover within three months of its launch.
I think the SX4 shares a fair amount of components with the Grande Punto.
I think the rest of the cars are self explantory why they are on the list. I just hope the LS does not win.
xrunner2: Well, get ready for the GM Vega then. Dems will find out, if they are smart/lucky that only credible candidates that "could" get elected Pres are Gore first and then possibly Edwards. Look for a Gore/Edwards ticket. Why would Gore not be electable in general election?
If that is the best that the Democrats can do, they are in worse shape than I thought.
Why couldn't he be elected? Well, the 2000 election was his to lose - Clinton handed him an economy that SEEMED healthy (even though the tech boom was really over, and we were sliding into a recession), we were at peace, and he still lost by a hair.
xrunner2: I still hear people saying on tv that he won the 2000 election.
And I hear people on television saying that they have been abducted by UFOs or regularly talk to dead people. They have about as much credibility to those who know the facts and the U.S. Constitution.
but this one is from a diverse cross section of NA automotive journalist.
The MT COTY, at least as it was years ago, took into account "all factors" including how it changed the landscape.
The X cars were really a change for GM and domestic makers. They were FWD, small, fuel efficient and brought out to compete with the imports. Much different than the Impalas and Monte Carlos they were building. I had an 82 (bought used in 83) which I loved. The hatchback allowed me to fill up the rear and it could tow my Hobie. Drove it for a few years with no problems. Of course there was not much to it.
A 4-year-old 4 cylinder Honda Accord beats out the all new Camry(I4), Altima(I4) and Aura XE(V6) to win the mid-price, midsize sedan title only makes one wonder how good will the 2008 Honda Accord be...
Also, Honda Accord again won the 2007 C&D top 10 car of the year award.
It may not be the most comfortable (Camry & Sonata), the fastest (Camry) or has the sharpest handling (Mazda6) but it is the most balanced and has the class-leading interior. I can't wait to see which car will win the 2008 car of the year award. I have 3 candidates in mind: Honda Accord, Chevy Malibu and Caddy CTS.
Truck of the year will go to the new Tundra most certainly with the lack of competition.
The only Citroen I have had any personal experience with was one of these:
1963 Citroen DS
Our neighbor's son had gotten a job as a Citroen salesman so his Daddy bought one. It replaced a 1962 Imperial, so maybe it wasn't as strange looking to them as it was to me.
I still remember the single spoke steering wheel
, the rubber bulb brake pedal, the soft ride from the hydraulic suspension, and the fact that when it broke, they had to fly a French mechanic in from Atlanta to get it running.
I thought it was a very, very, very cool car and I loved riding in it, but for some reason they didn't have it too long. :confuse:
Cool DS review Here's the Imperial - another true exotic we'll never see the likes of again in OUR lifetimes.
Thanks, that was a hoot. For memorable fun in a car ad, my favorite is still the Ford Sportka vs the pidgeon, which can still be found on YouTube. Would love to see the Ka line in North America.
grbeck said: And I hear people on television saying that they have been abducted by UFOs or regularly talk to dead people.
Where is this stuff found? On some obscure cable channels? Don't watch this kind of nonsense.
Have heard entertainers, media persons, pundits, some politicians (Dems) on major tv networks over the years state that Gore won in 2000. Kind of remember that Bill Clinton went overseas somewhere in last 6 years and said that Gore won.
According to recent WSJ, Gore has not been willing to meet with some folks that want to question some of his movie's claims about global warming. But, nonetheless, it would be good for this country for him to run and have national debate about warming, oil use, alternative fuels, upping CAFE mpgs, etc. This would put a spotlight on the auto manufacturers as well as others. Would this cause GM to alter/modify strategy, actions, business models, etc?
"A classic example of media indiffernce (I'll forego bias if it makes you feel better) is the coverage of the Sebring. I dont even like the car, but it makes a strong case for itself. It is impressively equipped, has unique styling and offers great value. C&D ripped the car because it was too soft (hasnt Toyota made a killing on soft cars) and didnt even mentione its features or value."
Did you sit in the Sebring? I did. I agree 100% with Edmunds that the plastics were hard. As I pointed out before the styling is a mess. Chrysler products the past few years do have terible plastics. The Pacifica has hard plastics. The Caliber's interior is not that good either.
Read my earilier post where I said I would by the Camry (over the Sebring)despite its criticized soft and cushy ride over the years. To me the late 90's Sebring was a good looking car with a decent looking interior for its time. For the record I never felt the plastics in the late 90's to see if they were hard or not but the interior did look decent for its time.
"The Optima has a nice interior. It's bland but I would get it long before I let Honda or Toyota take my money."
You would buy the Kia before you bought the Honda or Toyota? Kia even isn;t as reliable as the Domestics. Your other posts I agree with that American branded Cars have closed the gap on Japanee branded but Kia would get your money before Honda or Toyota? I don;t know about that.
"I am actually pretty disappointed at Honda Accord after the 97' MY. Honda IMO took a step back by managed to utilize more hard plastic in the 98' Accord then its predecessor."
The 98 Accord does have some hard plastic I admit actually but the 03+ Accord interior is better I would have to say than the 98 was.
"It is in CR's best interest to keep brining us bad news about the reliability of domestic cars because that ensures that people will keep reading each year."
That statement is a little ridiculous don;t you think thatr its CR's best interest to keep bringing bad news about the Domestic cars. If you look at CR they reccomenend more and more Domestic branded cars each year.
"As for the auto buff press, they will give some credit where it's due but everytime that have to make sure the readers know the car they are praising is the exception. The C6, 300C, Aura, Outlook, Sky/Solstice, CTS-V, Tahoe/Yukon, Fusion, etc. are given accolades but it is always with the caveat that "its hard to believe this came from Saturn (or Ford or whomever)."
Thats because these proucts are much better than the predessors. BTW. Compare the Aura to the last L Series that was made. The 300C is more critically acclaimed if you will than its preddesor the 300M. The 300M while not a bad car I don;t think that it offered much over the Acura TL or even the Mazda Millenia at the time (circa late 90's/early 00's.) The CTS-V: imagine GM making a sport V version of the Catera wich used to slot into Caddy;s line-up where the CTS does now making a sport version of the Catera wouldn;t have gone over too well because the Catera was not a good seller.
"Most reviews I have read about the Aura devote a paragraph or two to criticising former Saturn products and describing how the brand was been a failure. all true, but that is the whole point of reinventing the brand. At some point its time to stop harping on the S series and give credit for the current products."
The Saturn brand was not a failure at first. Saturn did sell well into the mid 90's and Saturn sales were very up and down in the late 90's/early 00's and down very much I think in the mid 00's(03-05) if I can recall right but now their trying to make a comeback.
"Back in the day (5 years maybe) people used to say domestics weren't equal due to panel tolerances, build quality, number of gears in automatics, engine choices, quietness, etc. Now that those issues are largely obsolete the focus has shifted to softness of plastics. This has to be the number one issue complained about and when you really look at it most complaints or non-recommendations come down to look and feel of plastics. Keep in mind that these same vehicles are often thousands cheaper than their competition and have no issues with actual build quality."
I myself don;t like cheap plastics in my cars.
"You can find minor nits to pick and what not but the differences just arent that big and GM vehicles are often cheaper and better looking than their import counterparts."
Remember styling is subjective. To me the stying gap beween beween domestics and Japanese is minimal in the past decade and a half. The Germans maybe had an advantage there for awhile earlier in this decade in styling until Mazda stepped it up and Nissan stepped their game up a little too. I would have to say Mazda and Mercedes have a styling advantage over everybody else right now.
I sat in the Aura the interior materials felt as good as Accord to me. I am a Honda fan myself but I didn't notice any difference "in the feel of the plastics" between the 07 Accord and 07 Aura. The 07 Camry's interior I thought was better than Accord's. the Accord and Aura both have harder plastic by the steering wheel and below the steering than up above the steering wheel and the rest of the car's plastics.
In post 1293 I know I said the 03 Accord's interior had a better interior than the 98. I think the hard plastics were pronounced(seeable)in the 98. I never felt the 1998 Accord's plastics but you can see Honda utilizing the use of hard plastics in the ebony color. In the 03 Accord the plastic was soft with the exception of below or near the steering wheel area as I said before. My 1998 Mazda 626 that I previously had might have had a better interior than 1998 Accord now that I think about.
You might want to think again about the Tundra: It wasn't available for the 2007 test, however, Toyota shot themselves in the foot w/ COTY because the Tundra comes out next month as a 2007 to take advantage of the old EPA fuel economy rules, so it wont be classified as an all new vehicle for 2008.
I hear all the soft plastic/hard plastic talk. I paid close attention today riding in friend's Corolla. All I can find it hard surfaced plastics! The dash looks and feels like a textured (barely) paint sprayed onto a hard shell of plastic. Certainly different than my GM car. The sides had plastics of a light bone tone that end and are met by darker tan plastics that continue to the floor. couldn't feel a soft plastic anywhere. Even the sun visors were a hard plastic shell. Mine are soft cloth.
My dashboard is a squeezable plastic with a durable layer. The door sills are the same along with the armrests on the doors. Where are all these better plastics?
Who the heck are talking about Corolla here? All I would expect from a $15K car is that it won't let me stranded in the middle of the highway and excellent FE.
If you want to pick on the Corolla why don't you compare it with the Cobalt. Is that what you drive?
louiswei, "GM: General Model View, Market Share & Profit News" #1257, 19 Jan 2007 9:49 am louiswie said: 1487, inferior grade plastic might not mean much to you but to some others (like me) that could well be the dictating factor for the purchasing decision. So maybe for you when those editors pointing out hard plastic it might sounds like nit picking to you but for me that's a great piece of information. What does that mean to me? It means GM has come a long way since the 90s for its sedans but still, no cigar yet.
I am actually pretty disappointed at Honda Accord after the 97' MY. Honda IMO took a step back by managed to utilize more hard plastic in the 98' Accord then its predecessor.
I believe I've had to suggest before you just skip my posts rather than some of the responses I've gotten. I won't be responding to your posts. Check with the host if you have a problem.
I wouldn't be surprised. The current Corolla probably has one of the worst interiors Toyota ever built. I really really DO NOT have a problem with people bashing the Corolla, it is totally inexcusable for Toyota ESPECIALLY when comparing to the new Civic. However, this car is almost 6 years old and let's see how will Toyota respond with the all new model coming this fall.
I've grown weary of the continual critique of GM's surfaces as JANG while the soft-faced surfaces are infinitely better and every other carmaker is using them except GM. I paid close attention today in the Corolla and was amazed at the paint that it appears is used on the dash and console. Is it actually a plastic backing on the Corolla?
I frankly like the durability of the GM dashboards and doorsills I have had. They clean easily and stand up to sun and cold for a decade.
My only negative is the "rug" on the back windowsill of one of my GM H-bodies. It's like a carpet with a nap and it has faded to a different tone of burgundy from the sun. One of the component colors has bleached out.
For durability and quality I've had a good product from GM.
And I sat in the Cobalt after it came out and thought its interior was more than acceptable for the price range. I checked the new Impala the same visit and thought it was better than I expected. The laCrosse is above level and the Lucerne is way above level for interior.
Actually the LaCrosse has more softer surfaces than Lucerne. Pretty much every surface is except the map pocket inserts, console and lower driver knee bolster.
I don't think hard or soft makes a big deal as much as the look...normally there aren't a whole lot of surfaces you touch anyway.
Overall I do think GM has been a bit too conservative on interiors. To my taste they aren't bad but aren't a selling point either. I just bought a new '06 Chrysler PT over an HHR and I'd say the interior was the clincher. I think even the CObalt has a better interior look thn the HHR.
If accountants drive E class Mercedes, who does that leave to drive Volvos? Actuaries and safety-paranoid housewives. I miss the old "Vermont Farmer" 240's when Volvo's weren't that fancy but were safe and durable. A car you could see parked at the opera with a Gore bumper sticker, but one that might also be used to transport a (small) cow in the backseat?...
CTS: If I must choose one of the cars listed, I might try the CTS on a lease-lark where I'd know I would walk away without wounding my wallet. The styling looks like a 65 caddy on Jupiter where the atmospheric pressure has squeezed the car into a smaller space....
Getting caught up here, did you ever consider going into stand-up comedy? Those two made me roar, esp. the "caddy on Jupiter" line.
BTW, I feel just like you on the old Volvo 240 -- great solid car, but simple to work on myself. For the reasons you state, I'll most likely never own a Volvo again (unless I find a mint used 240).
And thanks for those great photos of the Citroen DS and Imperial. Yes, cars like those are gone forever.
Thanks for the link -- ah, Wikipedia is always there when you need it. I remember some of those MT "Dogs of the Year," like the '74 Mustang II and the '83 Alliance.
And yeah, those '57 Chrysler Corp. cars were stunners to behold -- too bad they leaked, rusted, and croaked into oblivion after a couple of years. My aunt bought a '57 Plymouth and soon thereafter swore off (and at) Chrysler -- she replaced it with a '59 "batwing" Chevy. I distinctly remember the Chevy's evil taillight "eyes" glaring at me when I rode my bicycle in front of her garage. Can you imagine the magazine giving no award today, like they did in the early 50s? "Geez, no car is good enough to win our award this year." Just think of all the advertising revenue that would be lost! :P
Just for reference the LaCrosse door trim is all soft vinyl that is molded with the plastic substrate with the "padding" molded in. This adds about $100/car in costs and would raise the price of the car by about $200. That is a lot of money. In fact the LaCrosse is probably the last car from anyone in the midsize market that has soft feel materials used almost throughout the entire interior. neither Camry nor Accord have as much.
I for one will mourn the passing of soft plastic. I thought the vinyl with the molded-in foam was supposed to be cheaper than the old-timey padding, but I agree $100 is a lot of money. And I do like the LaCrosse's interior.
I didn't realize at the time that my hard-plastic-dash '98 Nissan Frontier would represent the wave of the future. I just thought since it was a fairly stripped truck, but equipped with dual front airbags, was why Nissan cheaped out. I suppose airbags now substitute for the padding in a frontal crash.
Re. Kia's poor reliability . . . you may wish to conduct a real survey of current Kia owners. They're much more reliable than you imply. My colleague bought a Kia 4 years ago, and it has been bullet-proof. Her husband in a Toyota Service Manager no less, and she bought it on his recommendation. Both Hyundai and Kia have far better build-quality and reliability than most of us are willing to admit.
Are you familiar with warranties? Or leases? If import cars cost the same as domestics I might be able to buy your argument that once burned by an American car (even 25 years ago) you should never go back but often times you can save thousands by going with a domestic product. Since ALL new cars have warranties, and Ford/GM offer 5 year powertrain warranties don't you think you would be at minimal risk of getting burned if you tried a domestic car? Especially, when you could save $50+ a month in payments. Think what you could do with the thousands you save over the course of 60 months. At the end the 60 months if the car was as terrible as you fear it will be (which it wont) the money you have saved will more than make up for any gap in resale value between your American car and a comparable Toyota or Honda. Remember, the Hyundai and Nissan dont even have great resale value.
We do not disagree, I was talking about what is available now. I know full well that GMs upcoming hybrid system will be just as efficient and likely cheaper than Toyotas system. By 2008 GM will have almost as man hybrid models on sale as Toyota and their two mode system will provide a nice boost in hwy mileage which the Toyota system does not.
The Accord beat all those cars in ONE TEST. You are acting like C&D's opinion is the absolute final word on automobiles. In case you missed it, Edmunds had the Accord in two tests recently and it lost both times. Once to the Camry and once to the Sonata. You have to kidding about the class leading interior. I cant think of one car in this class than has a worse interior than the Accord. OK, maybe the Sonata. Even the Optima has a better looking interior design. The Accord is old so this is to be expected.
New Highlander is being revealed in Chicago. Will this send GM back to the drawing board once again as Toyota creates a benchmark crossover? I doubt it but we will know soon enough.
The Kia is far cheaper, has a nicer interior and has a great warranty. Why would I buy an CAmry or Accord 4 cylinder over the Kia considering the Kia's warranty? As for V6 models, I would not get the Kia due to its weak engine.
Comments
The reality of the problem with the Toyota drive-by-wire system in the ES and Ava and now Camry are getting noticed. And some of them ain't falling for the factory reps with their it's all fixed posts and the you must be driving it wrong folks posts.
I keep thinking this is what people would have posted about GMs in the past.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If Kirstie's heater blower wouldn't shut off, they were just making sure her air conditioning would work when she needed it; that's a failsafe design GM had implemented...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
ROTFLMAO
Like you said hmmmmmmmmmmmm :P
Rocky
P.S. check your e-mail
I've often wondered what it's going to be like to live in Hell. :P
Neither side has to be fair: it's their money and they will spend it as they see fit.
For me, maintaining a car that gets great gas mileage, has only the stuff on it I want, is a lot more satisfying than having to go out and research and (worse) talk to sales people every four or five years. If someone LIKES to do this, then fine, have fun, but I have different priorities for my time and money.
1487,
For once we disagree because GM's 2-Mode hybrid system that is coming out is superior to Toyota's synergy system. GM, went in with DCX, BMW, to develop the 2-Mode and the system only costs the consumer roughly $2,000 extra. Toyota's Synergy system which was developed by only Toyota costs roughly $5-6K more because they weren't able to share R&D costs with two other car company's. Another disadvantage to the synergy is it doesn't have a highway mode to increase fuel economy thus GM, DCX, BMW will have the cutting edge until Toyota updates their synergy technology. However the bottom line is a Aura Greenline should be priced several thousands cheaper than a hybrid Camry
Rocky
If only that were true. Heat on during winter AND summer, hombre. :sick: I don't believe that 'vettes came standard with A/C back in '84, and I sure as heck didn't (read: couldn't) pay for it.
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The 49 journalist are a cross section of press writers from all across the nation. Snow was one of them and probably voted for a vehicle that met their ideals. He did say that he felt the Aura would win over the Camry. Just that if Accord was in the running he would have voted for it.
Nothing of significance lately pal. The UAW, did help get to pick the investors they wanted to buy into Delphi, because from what I read they wanted someone with long-term goals not a group looking to make a fast buck.
I missed out on making lots of money because I'm waiting on another settlement check I was going to use to invest a lot of dough in Delphi. I would of tripled my money if I would of had it a few months ago. :sick: I hope the share prices don't go up to fast because I want to still want risk some money.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
MT COTY History
While I was searching for that, I stumbled across THIS COTY competition, which has some finalists even more shocking to me than the Alliance:
How about these choices?
Audi Q7
Audi TT
Citroen C4 Picasso
Citroen C6
Fiat Grande Punto
Jaguar XK
Lexus LS 460
Mercedes CL
MINI
Suzuki SX4 / Fiat Sedici
2007 World COTY finalists
Call me biased, but a Suzuki and a Fiat and two - count em - two Citroens? Well!
Note: this should not be taken to impugn Saturns victory as NACOTY - that's entirely different.
And the Grande Punto is supposed to be a great little micro car from everything I have heard.
I haven't taken a Q7 in trade yet which makes me think it must be doing very well. Normally any new released SUV is traded in on a Range Rover within three months of its launch.
I think the SX4 shares a fair amount of components with the Grande Punto.
I think the rest of the cars are self explantory why they are on the list. I just hope the LS does not win.
If that is the best that the Democrats can do, they are in worse shape than I thought.
Why couldn't he be elected? Well, the 2000 election was his to lose - Clinton handed him an economy that SEEMED healthy (even though the tech boom was really over, and we were sliding into a recession), we were at peace, and he still lost by a hair.
xrunner2: I still hear people saying on tv that he won the 2000 election.
And I hear people on television saying that they have been abducted by UFOs or regularly talk to dead people. They have about as much credibility to those who know the facts and the U.S. Constitution.
but this one is from a diverse cross section of NA automotive journalist.
The MT COTY, at least as it was years ago, took into account "all factors" including how it changed the landscape.
The X cars were really a change for GM and domestic makers. They were FWD, small, fuel efficient and brought out to compete with the imports. Much different than the Impalas and Monte Carlos they were building. I had an 82 (bought used in 83) which I loved. The hatchback allowed me to fill up the rear and it could tow my Hobie. Drove it for a few years with no problems. Of course there was not much to it.
A 4-year-old 4 cylinder Honda Accord beats out the all new Camry(I4), Altima(I4) and Aura XE(V6) to win the mid-price, midsize sedan title only makes one wonder how good will the 2008 Honda Accord be...
Also, Honda Accord again won the 2007 C&D top 10 car of the year award.
It may not be the most comfortable (Camry & Sonata), the fastest (Camry) or has the sharpest handling (Mazda6) but it is the most balanced and has the class-leading interior. I can't wait to see which car will win the 2008 car of the year award. I have 3 candidates in mind: Honda Accord, Chevy Malibu and Caddy CTS.
Truck of the year will go to the new Tundra most certainly with the lack of competition.
lokki, the list you provided is for Motor Trend's World Car of the Year. NA's Motor Trend COTY award went to 2007 Toyota Camry this year.
Saturn Aura on the other hand won the 2007 North America Car of the Year.
Those are 2 different awards.
PS: From the list I'd have to go with Lexus LS460.
The XK, MINI or one of the Citroens would be much better winners.
1963 Citroen DS
Our neighbor's son had gotten a job as a Citroen salesman so his Daddy bought one. It replaced a 1962 Imperial, so maybe it wasn't as strange looking to them as it was to me.
I still remember the single spoke steering wheel
, the rubber bulb brake pedal, the soft ride from the hydraulic suspension, and the fact that when it broke, they had to fly a French mechanic in from Atlanta to get it running.
I thought it was a very, very, very cool car and I loved riding in it, but for some reason they didn't have it too long. :confuse:
Cool DS review
Here's the Imperial - another true exotic we'll never see the likes of again in OUR lifetimes.
And I hear people on television saying that they have been abducted by UFOs or regularly talk to dead people.
Where is this stuff found? On some obscure cable channels? Don't watch this kind of nonsense.
Have heard entertainers, media persons, pundits, some politicians (Dems) on major tv networks over the years state that Gore won in 2000. Kind of remember that Bill Clinton went overseas somewhere in last 6 years and said that Gore won.
According to recent WSJ, Gore has not been willing to meet with some folks that want to question some of his movie's claims about global warming. But, nonetheless, it would be good for this country for him to run and have national debate about warming, oil use, alternative fuels, upping CAFE mpgs, etc. This would put a spotlight on the auto manufacturers as well as others. Would this cause GM to alter/modify strategy, actions, business models, etc?
Did you sit in the Sebring? I did. I agree 100% with Edmunds that the plastics were hard. As I pointed out before the styling is a mess. Chrysler products the past few years do have terible plastics. The Pacifica has hard plastics. The Caliber's interior is not that good either.
Read my earilier post where I said I would by the Camry (over the Sebring)despite its criticized soft and cushy ride over the years. To me the late 90's Sebring was a good looking car with a decent looking interior for its time. For the record I never felt the plastics in the late 90's to see if they were hard or not but the interior did look decent for its time.
You would buy the Kia before you bought the Honda or Toyota? Kia even isn;t as reliable as the Domestics. Your other posts I agree with that American branded Cars have closed the gap on Japanee branded but Kia would get your money before Honda or Toyota? I don;t know about that.
The 98 Accord does have some hard plastic I admit actually but the 03+ Accord interior is better I would have to say than the 98 was.
That statement is a little ridiculous don;t you think thatr its CR's best interest to keep bringing bad news about the Domestic cars. If you look at CR they reccomenend more and more Domestic branded cars each year.
"As for the auto buff press, they will give some credit where it's due but everytime that have to make sure the readers know the car they are praising is the exception. The C6, 300C, Aura, Outlook, Sky/Solstice, CTS-V, Tahoe/Yukon, Fusion, etc. are given accolades but it is always with the caveat that "its hard to believe this came from Saturn (or Ford or whomever)."
Thats because these proucts are much better than the predessors. BTW. Compare the Aura to the last L Series that was made. The 300C is more critically acclaimed if you will than its preddesor the 300M. The 300M while not a bad car I don;t think that it offered much over the Acura TL or even the Mazda Millenia at the time (circa late 90's/early 00's.) The CTS-V: imagine GM making a sport V version of the Catera wich used to slot into Caddy;s line-up where the CTS does now making a sport version of the Catera wouldn;t have gone over too well because the Catera was not a good seller.
"Most reviews I have read about the Aura devote a paragraph or two to criticising former Saturn products and describing how the brand was been a failure. all true, but that is the whole point of reinventing the brand. At some point its time to stop harping on the S series and give credit for the current products."
The Saturn brand was not a failure at first. Saturn did sell well into the mid 90's and Saturn sales were very up and down in the late 90's/early 00's and down very much I think in the mid 00's(03-05) if I can recall right but now their trying to make a comeback.
I myself don;t like cheap plastics in my cars.
"You can find minor nits to pick and what not but the differences just arent that big and GM vehicles are often cheaper and better looking than their import counterparts."
Remember styling is subjective. To me the stying gap beween beween domestics and Japanese is minimal in the past decade and a half. The Germans maybe had an advantage there for awhile earlier in this decade in styling until Mazda stepped it up and Nissan stepped their game up a little too. I would have to say Mazda and Mercedes have a styling advantage over everybody else right now.
In post 1293 I know I said the 03 Accord's interior had a better interior than the 98. I think the hard plastics were pronounced(seeable)in the 98. I never felt the 1998 Accord's plastics but you can see Honda utilizing the use of hard plastics in the ebony color. In the 03 Accord the plastic was soft with the exception of below or near the steering wheel area as I said before. My 1998 Mazda 626 that I previously had might have had a better interior than 1998 Accord now that I think about.
My dashboard is a squeezable plastic with a durable layer. The door sills are the same along with the armrests on the doors. Where are all these better plastics?
Where are all these wunderplastics now? .
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you want to pick on the Corolla why don't you compare it with the Cobalt. Is that what you drive?
louiswie said: 1487, inferior grade plastic might not mean much to you but to some others (like me) that could well be the dictating factor for the purchasing decision. So maybe for you when those editors pointing out hard plastic it might sounds like nit picking to you but for me that's a great piece of information. What does that mean to me? It means GM has come a long way since the 90s for its sedans but still, no cigar yet.
louiswei, "GM: General Model View, Market Share & Profit News" #1248, 19 Jan 2007 6:39 am
louiswei said: BTW, the "soft plastics" in 90s Camrys and accords would definitely not cut it today. Hondas especially had plenty of hard surfaces inside before recent models.
WRONG.
I am actually pretty disappointed at Honda Accord after the 97' MY. Honda IMO took a step back by managed to utilize more hard plastic in the 98' Accord then its predecessor.
I believe I've had to suggest before you just skip my posts rather than some of the responses I've gotten. I won't be responding to your posts. Check with the host if you have a problem.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I wouldn't be surprised. The current Corolla probably has one of the worst interiors Toyota ever built. I really really DO NOT have a problem with people bashing the Corolla, it is totally inexcusable for Toyota ESPECIALLY when comparing to the new Civic. However, this car is almost 6 years old and let's see how will Toyota respond with the all new model coming this fall.
I frankly like the durability of the GM dashboards and doorsills I have had. They clean easily and stand up to sun and cold for a decade.
My only negative is the "rug" on the back windowsill of one of my GM H-bodies. It's like a carpet with a nap and it has faded to a different tone of burgundy from the sun. One of the component colors has bleached out.
For durability and quality I've had a good product from GM.
And I sat in the Cobalt after it came out and thought its interior was more than acceptable for the price range. I checked the new Impala the same visit and thought it was better than I expected. The laCrosse is above level and the Lucerne is way above level for interior.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Overall I do think GM has been a bit too conservative on interiors. To my taste they aren't bad but aren't a selling point either. I just bought a new '06 Chrysler PT over an HHR and I'd say the interior was the clincher. I think even the CObalt has a better interior look thn the HHR.
If accountants drive E class Mercedes, who does that leave to drive Volvos? Actuaries and safety-paranoid housewives. I miss the old "Vermont Farmer" 240's when Volvo's weren't that fancy but were safe and durable. A car you could see parked at the opera with a Gore bumper sticker, but one that might also be used to transport a (small) cow in the backseat?...
CTS:
If I must choose one of the cars listed, I might try the CTS on a lease-lark where I'd know I would walk away without wounding my wallet. The styling looks like a 65 caddy on Jupiter where the atmospheric pressure has squeezed the car into a smaller space....
Getting caught up here, did you ever consider going into stand-up comedy? Those two made me roar, esp. the "caddy on Jupiter" line.
BTW, I feel just like you on the old Volvo 240 -- great solid car, but simple to work on myself. For the reasons you state, I'll most likely never own a Volvo again (unless I find a mint used 240).
And thanks for those great photos of the Citroen DS and Imperial. Yes, cars like those are gone forever.
And yeah, those '57 Chrysler Corp. cars were stunners to behold -- too bad they leaked, rusted, and croaked into oblivion after a couple of years. My aunt bought a '57 Plymouth and soon thereafter swore off (and at) Chrysler -- she replaced it with a '59 "batwing" Chevy. I distinctly remember the Chevy's evil taillight "eyes" glaring at me when I rode my bicycle in front of her garage.
Can you imagine the magazine giving no award today, like they did in the early 50s? "Geez, no car is good enough to win our award this year." Just think of all the advertising revenue that would be lost! :P
I for one will mourn the passing of soft plastic. I thought the vinyl with the molded-in foam was supposed to be cheaper than the old-timey padding, but I agree $100 is a lot of money. And I do like the LaCrosse's interior.
I didn't realize at the time that my hard-plastic-dash '98 Nissan Frontier would represent the wave of the future. I just thought since it was a fairly stripped truck, but equipped with dual front airbags, was why Nissan cheaped out. I suppose airbags now substitute for the padding in a frontal crash.
New Highlander is being revealed in Chicago. Will this send GM back to the drawing board once again as Toyota creates a benchmark crossover? I doubt it but we will know soon enough.