General Motors discussions

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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well the funny thing is pal, Toyota has never been able to make valve lifters and just recently awarded Delphi, another contract about 4 months ago or so. Toyota, was looking at buying Delphi fuel injectors and so was Honda. The problem was they didn't want to buy the best so they settled for nippondenso or however it's spelled instead. People who do aftermarket tuning on their Civic's, Integra's, RSX's, almost automatically switch out the injectors and put in Delphi's Multec 2 fuel injectors. ;)

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    It is what it is. A basic family or company car, in need of a complete redesign. It is larger than others for the price and that is where the advantages to other cars in price range ends. The Impala is what it is. And yes, telescopic steering column should have been a standard a long-long time ago.
    Loren
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    PLEASE, lets not get into the stupid tele wheel being standard again.
  • punkr77punkr77 Member Posts: 183
    Make that three massive sized muscle cars. The new Mustang is way, way overweight. I'll gladly give up horsepower in exchange for ligher weight and better handling.

    That's one thing that's really hurt Detroit, bigger is not always better.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Check this out.

    When Car Czar Bob Lutz told the world that GM was putting the Zeta platform on hold, it was the second time the rear-wheel drive (RWD) program had been chopped. Two years ago, GM killed Zeta for being too pricey. Less than half a year later, the RWD program was resurrected; working with GM’s Holden division supposedly made it feasible. When Bob announced GM had second thoughts about its second thoughts, he blamed the double volte-face on government fuel economy and emissions legislation. In fact, there’s both less and more to this decision than meets the eye.

    First, understand this: the regulations in question have yet to be finalized, let alone codified. While politicians have discussed the possibility of increasing federal CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards, no changes have been made. And while the Supreme Court has ruled that the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) can/should regulate carbon emissions, any such action must first go through a lengthy process of debate, drafting and implementation.

    Bottom line: any GM carping about government interference is preemptive/speculative. And there’s nothing about the regulations that prohibits the development of fuel-efficient RWD cars through alternative propulsion, displacement-on-demand, turbo-diesels or any number of technological solutions. In fact, GM’s decision to kill Zeta may have less to do with government regulations than commercial realities....

    Not too different from my take on what Lutz was thinking.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Just responding to the conversation about an article. As for it being stupid to include telescopic steering columns, it kinda says it all about GM's current woes. Not listening to the consumer.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Something around the size of the G6, say add an inch to the width, and take about three hundred pounds off the weight, would make a neat little RWD sport sedan and a Camaro platform. Sell both around the $23K to $24K range with the basics, and all the fancy stuff for say $25K to $29K range, would be cool. Use the 3.6V6 engine. The Mustang would be a dinosaur in comparison. I imagine the Mustang with the 3.5 V6 will be a hit, and a big improvement over the 4.0 SUV engine.
    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Loren, but wouldn't you complain if they took that much weight off that some which would probably come from sound deading material that now your ride is not quite ? I think it's a catch twenty-two pal for car company's. I guess the only way to make a ultra light car is out of fiberglass, aluminum, carbon fiber, all which is ultra expensive. Do you like the 08' Accord pics floating around here on the site ? It looks quite porky also but I'd rather have it than this last generation. The new Accord, has some "character" finally.

    I also think the Mustang, is doing fine as it is. The interior is a little spartan compared to the ones we see in new GM, releases and the styling isn't my cup of tea but it seems to work for most. ;)

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Aluminum is the word. More aluminum, and less weight for modern day automobiles. Reducing the size of the car would help in this respect. The RWD however adds to the weight. The Nissan Altima uses some aluminum to reduce the pounds, and appears like the Accord, to weight in lighter than say the Aura. A light and agile Camaro and a sport sedan, would be very cool indeed and be some really new and meaningful additions to GM stable of cars.

    And as far as I know, the new Accord Sedan '08 is still camera shy.

    As for the Mustang, I do not like the looks, or quality of the interior, nor the gauges and such. The exterior looks OK, but I am not too much into the replicar look. A classic '68 or '69 is just fine, thank you! In the new editions, the 2004GT or even an older 1990's notchback LX with a V8 may be a good classic.
    :shades: Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Loren, picks with some plastic are all over this site pal. Go check out insideline. ;)

    The 90's Fox Body Convertibles were the only good Stangs, IMHO. I'm however glad I didn't buy one because in todays world they just aren't safe.

    Rocky
  • harrycheztharrychezt Member Posts: 405
    Not happy. No Center armrest for the front passengers( you know, the console/armrest thing most cars have, so you can put your junk in them, then rest your arm on it).

    It is being picky, I know, but hey.... I want my armrest, and not some cheap thing hanging on the side of the seat, you fold down.

    Seems Suzuki is going this route, too, with their SX4 sedan.

    What gives? We going back to 1990, when all small cars were what I call for 2007, decontented on the interiors?

    Nice car, but I hope, I really do hope, GM decides to "Americanize" it some, and add a "cheap" center console/armrest.

    Got spoiled since 1999, having this "feature" in our Hyundai's and Scion tC.

    Kind of nice to have, really.
    Holds lots of stuff I have no room for in my glove box, and nice to rest your arm on something wider than a pencil(like the fold down arms, as options on SX4, think a package deal).

    take care/not offense.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    harry, to you have a interior pic of this Astra, or a link to one pal ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070420/AUTO01/704200366/1148-

    This is damn impressive folks. GM, is getting it !!!! The car is drop dead sexy and the car is 100% emissions free. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Automaker reports gain of 66,814 sales over year-earlier period; still loses ground worldwide.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070420/AUTO01/704200368/1148-

    I am amzed how many automobile manufactors their is today. I think at some point by the end of the next decade another 10 company's/brands will hit our market mainly from China, and India. That's my prediction. I'm glad to see GM, sales are up. Hopefully they can regain some market share. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Hey pal, have you checked out the new LaCrosse Super and Lucerne Super ? Man these are the best Buick's in years.
    http://www.buick.com/

    The Lucerne Super comes also with a heated walnut steering wheel, walnut shifter, and Leather dash. :surprise: I better keep this info from the wife as she has told me she really wants me to buy a Lucerne, as my next car. She saw one at the country club a few weeks ago and asked me who makes that cool car ? I was like * gulp that is a Buick Lucerne. She then played twenty question's on the Lucerne. I told her we will see. I told her we have so many damn choices now it's going to be a hard choice when the time comes. She told me today again the Genesis, I liked was ugly and I wouldn't be getting one. I told her I don't care for that car any more after the shocking story's of human rights I read on South Korea. :mad:

    I'm telling you pal, if they would just build my Buick Velite, I'd be the happiest buick owner on the planet. All my problems of picking out my next new car would be over. I could care less if it was made with the new "ULTRA" V8 or Twin-Turbo 3.6 as long as it was very powerful, gave me a 5.1 or 7.1 true digital surround sound system, Delphi Magneride suspension, heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, Voice Recognition w/ Navigation, Bluetooth, Lane Departure, BLISS, Ultrasonic rear detection, is there anything else I need ? Maybe a gadget to remove the clouds so I can drop the hardtop. :P

    I like the 08' CTS and 09' CTS-V a lot. I however am in love with the Buick Velite Convertible. I've been hooked for a couple years now. My god it has been that long !!!
    I almost wished Lutz, would of never built the concept convertible as it really upsets me this car hasn't went into production yet. I ask why such a damn cool car has not seen the assembly line ?

    I wished GM executives would read these forums and grant me my wish !!!! :sick: I know there are others that want this car to be built. A Tiger Woods Edition Buick Velite Convertible is my wish. :cry: As I said before I would have the "get-up" gear with Buick Bag & Clubs strapped in the rear seats, TW clothing i.e. hat, shades, shoes, shirt, pants, etc.....:shades:

    Oh well maybe Lutz, will make the Velite, in a few years. :(

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Gadgetology: Marketing or Useful Advance forum for GM's Self Driving Car technology video if your interested. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wow, another stunning vehicle from Buick. :) I doubt we see it. :sick:

    http://gmtv.feedroom.com/

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Self driving car you say? Heck, Audi was way ahead on that one! :D:D:D

    Just kidding Audi, as we know about driver error and that.

    Actually, I thought it was Mercedes which had made the most advances in automatic steering / braking cars? Not that I would ever consider one in my wildest nightmare. Rather drive a golf cart, or pedal a bike, than travel automatic nose to tail, like pony rides for children through the park. Why not just take the train? Oh that's right, US has little choices in trains, at least on the left coast.
    Loren
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    It would help if the engines were quieter to begin with. :P Sound deadening has surpassed the point of diminishing returns IMO. One of the reasons the IS300 weighed so much is that it used asphalt(!) sheets for soundproofing. Reserve the overbearing quietude for the Lexii of the world, and let the rest of us have the light cars that we used to get.

    Does the '08 Accord rear end remind anyone else of the late '90s CL?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Does the '08 Accord rear end remind anyone else of the late '90s CL?

    Yep !!!

    bumpy, it's not just engine noise that makes a ultra light car noisy. I think it also can be because there just is more road noise today than ever. More Traffic, More Pot Holes, and we know what ultra-quiet feels like and pretty much demand it now days. If the Lucerne Super, got a real digital surround sound system I'd probably buy one. I will have to write Buick, and see if the Bose 5.1 will be a option. If so I just might buy this buick, as it would remind me so much of my 02' Cadillac Seville STS only a lot better. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Pics and a small article about the 2008 Buick Lucerne Super

    http://www.netcarshow.com/buick/2008-lucerne_super/

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    No one knows yet what the 2008 Accord Sedan will look like. That said, my guess is that is yet another car with the too tall doors. I can see how you compromise some window space, and have a door a bit closer to the chin on a sports car, but why would you need this on a sedan? As a side note, the Corvette has a pretty good viewing area, and feels better when sitting within compared to the confinement of the 350Z. At least the C5 is. Have not really looked at the C6 Vettes. Seems like my '07 Accord Sedan has some window area still, with not too overly tall door window sills. I like that. No sitting in a coffin to drive. The C5 Corvette has a good view ahead, and enough glass all around as not to feel the coffin effect. It is about as low an amount of glass area I could live with though.

    My Dad bought some Toyo Ultra 800 tires, and they have been very-very quiet running. So if noise is a concern, they are about as low on noise of any tire I have yet to comparably listen for road noise while driving.

    Loren
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    Are you not going to believe me unless I bring brochure with the info home from work and type it in here? Besides the two listed below, I recall the Cobalt SS with the supercharger won an award. Are you that amazed that GM wins plenty of awards?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes. What was the award for that $21K econo car with the supercharger? How many people would really pay that much money for a Cobalt? Now if the new Camaro started around $21K with a couple hundred ponies under the hood, or say $23K to $24K with the 3.6V6, I am all ears. 21K is about what one expects to pay for a nice mid-sized car.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Why isn't Delphi making a profit these days? Seems the number of parts needed is higher each year. What happened over time to deteriorate the profit structure there. I image it to be a long story, so what is the brief outline in one paragraph? Have they resolved the labor issues?
    Loren
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Hey Bumpy,
    That Royaum feature in Inside Line ain't a Buick.It's a Holden Statesman. That whole article is wrong.
    Holden have been selling Staties there for years.
    That pic is the superseaded '06 Statesman.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Check the link about the above post.

    http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/corporateinfo/exports/exports.jsp
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I think the Royaum was actually derived from the top-trim Caprice, rather than the regular Statesman. The Chinese version did get a different interior, and the same thing was done to the WM Holden Caprice to make the new Park Avenue.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Ok, Statesman, Caprice , same car but Caprice sits a bit lower and has a bit of a body kit and DVD screens in the back.
  • punkr77punkr77 Member Posts: 183
    I actually prefer the 350Z to the vette's. The vette's felt almost too big, I had to lean forward to reach controls and even the $80k Z06 had a cheap feeling interior. Add in the enormous hood (I hate having to pull into an intersection before I can see if it's clear) and I'd likely go for the 350Z unless I could afford the Z06. The only two downsides to the 350Z are it's lack of hp and the nearly worthless hatch thanks to that strut tower brace.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    The 2007 civic si is $21690 MSRP and the 'what others are paying' is $21038. Thats an econo car without a supercharger. How many people would really pay that much for a Civic? Now, if the Acura RL started around $21K with a couple hundred ponies under the hood, or say 23K with a 3.6 Liter, I'm all ears. Oh, I'm sorry, the RL is $46K for the 3.5 with under 300 horses.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Sorry, the Civic is not an econo car like the Cobalt. Worlds apart. I personally think the Si is overpriced, though it makes more sense than buying a supercharged economy car. Currently, you can get a V6 Accord for around the price of the Si or that Cobalt SS. Accord has 244HP. I would say 244HP V6, a mid-size car, with much higher resale value, makes a lot more sense than paying that much for an econo car. Don't know anything about the Acura RL. At $46K, I would say one may opt for a luxury RWD car instead. If the RL sold for $23K, I would buy it!
    :shades: Loren

    P.S. If you need more HP out of that Si, you can always stick a blower on it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well Loren, you are right it would be a long story. The brief version would be to much competition from cheap labor over sea's and south of the border. Automakers telling them to do it cheaper or we won't buy from you. Some plants making $100 million plus while others are losing money thus 21 of 29 will or already have been closed. Delphi, is selling off parts divisions to investers. Delphi of the future will only make high technology parts and systems. UAW contract comes up in September and the fight will be on. GM, still has over $2 billion in liability's. I see a strike possibly coming and the UAW doesn't caare as they shut down most of the U.S. plants and the rest will probably come in the near future. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The Lucerne Super will have a upgraded 292 hp. Northstar V8, a upgraded interior with a leather dash, upgraded metal trim around the navi and audio unit with a heated walnut wood steering wheel, walnut shifter handle, ultra soft suede seat inserts and door trims along with a recalibrated magneride system, and recalibrated steering system to enhance handling performance.

    The 2010' model year should bring us the Buick Velite Sedan, and I would naturally assume a Convertible will be launched at the same time or in the spring of 2010 as a 2011 model. The convertible is just a logical guess. The Velite Sedan, was on again until Lutz, pushed the pause button again because of CAFE increases proposed by Congress. I think that issue could make or break the Velite. I do have a logical solution and that problem and that is make the 2-Mode hybrid standard. ;)

    The RWD Lucerne, should see production in MY 2011 with most likely a "ULTRA V8" and the Cadillac DTS should be bigger yet and have RWD also. I personally feel these cars are so important to GM, that Lutz, is playing head games with the american people to get sympathy. I can understand why he is doing it as what other choice does he got ? We americans want our engines powerful and want our cars solid in feel. It adds weight but we love our cabins in our luxury cars super quiet. ;)

    I'm one of those types and I'm against the CAFE standards until we get this alternative energy programs implemented. You can increase the emissions and fuel economy standards without building the infrastructure to support it. ;)

    Rocky
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    This file keeps coming in handy:
    Honda Accord prices in My neck of the woods:
    LX (MANUAL)  $21,070.00
    LX  $21,870.00
    EX (MANUAL)  $23,245.00
    EX  $24,045.00
    EX-L (MANUAL)  $24,945.00
    EX-L  $25,745.00
    EX-L w/NAVI (MANUAL)  $26,945.00
    EX-L w/NAVI  $27,745.00
    LX V6 $25,895.00
    EX V6 6-SPEED  $28,095.00
    EX V6  $28,095.00
    EX V6 6-SPEED NAVI  $30,095.00
    EX V6 w/ NAVI  $30,095.00
    I consider anything available with steel 14" wheels and a 4 cylinders an econo car, especially if it has a manual, and even if it can be upgraded to alloy rims. My '84 Camaro was an econo car.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    $30K Accord ? I think not !!! Well not for me ! :surprise:

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Must be Canadian. In California, the SEV6 is around $24K, less around $1,600 discounts.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    This is from Joe Sherlock's "View through the Windshield" blog dated April 23:

    Wasting Money: The current issue of AutoWeek has a two-page spread (inside front cover and facing page) touting the will-it-ever-be-built Chevrolet Volt concept car. This was paid for by a corporation which is going broke. The money would have been better spent improving that cheap interior in the Chevy Cobalt (see my posting of 2/1/07). That might increase non-fleet sales and improve overall profitability of the Chevy brand - a first step towards saving the company.
  • altestaltest Member Posts: 79
    Prices seem high. Also, where's the SE? SE is the real deal. Tons of feature and you pay something like $21K.

    I am not sure what fraction of Accord buyers actually buy $30K Accords. And, I am not sure what percentage of Tahoe buyers buy $50K+ LTZ models.

    Bye the way, I love Fusion and Mazda6 pricing. Very nicely priced. GM needs to price new Malibu in the same range. If GM can do that, I may take a look again at GM :surprise:
  • altestaltest Member Posts: 79
    I disagree. Technology changes faster than many of us think. Think of how our cars and computers have evolved. GM needs to step up R&D and not reduce it. I am for GM launching a diesel Impala, a Prius-busting hybrid, an all electric Saturn (sort of next generation EV), and a plug-in Corvette (to take on the new plug-in Porsche). GM can do it. I hope GM won't disappoint me this time again by not doing what it is capable of.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    A $22k Malibu 3.6V6 would be a winner! The interior, from the photos, looks more interesting than the Aura. I assume the Aura and Malibu will be similar vehicles. The G6 models without electric steering, may be OK. The 3.5 V6 models seem OK, but not as exciting as the 3.6 V6 + the 6 sp. tranny. Those seem to feel like more fun cars to drive, and they feel like a new car. Would be good to lose those of hood rods. Can I assume that Malibu gets stability control for all models? As new updates / new designs hit the market, they will be all going with stability control before the law kicks in, even on the i4 engine models.
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    They already tried the plug-in cars. Seems they could not find a long enough cord. :D

    Isn't there an Aura Hybrid out now? And the price seems low at around $22K. If you are into the hybrids, the starting price is pretty good on those Auras.
    Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yep !!!!

    http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/aura/overview.jsp

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Roxky, just like the LaCrosse Super I would have asked for:) ;)
  • jprybajpryba Member Posts: 201
    If Hyundai can offer standard stability control on all Sonatas (in the US, at least), then I think GM can do the same for all trim levels with the upcoming Malibu. Safety should not be an option!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Pretty darn cool isn't it pal. ;) I'm really digging the Lucerne Super. It is very tiiiight :blush: If they install a 7.1 605 watt Harmon Kardon Surround Sound System it just might be the way to go for me. ;) I still can't wait until it goes RWD. I'd like to see The Lucerne and Velite Convertible/Sedan, Zeta platforms offer big power. The Velite be more of a sport-lux automobile and be styled like the concept with a Twin-Turbo powerplant putting out between 400-450 hp. The Lucerne, be styled differently and offer the new ULTRA V8 with 400 hp. Make the 2011 ZETA DTS, S-Class or bigger in size and have it make 500 hp. via a 5.0 "ULTRA V8" standard. Cadillac, needs to be like Mercedes/BMW and Buick, need to be exactly like Lexus, only more powerful and a bit cheaper. ;)

    I believe this can and will happen. :)

    Rocky

    P.S. Oh Yeah, 2-Mode Hybrid for them all...... ;)
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    If the 28/35 is using the new epa figures, it'll be great. how come the fine print in the aura overview page says "each retailer sets it't own price"????? I thought saturn is one pricing.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    "each retailer sets it't own price"????? I thought saturn is one pricing.

    From what I understand that is true at every dealership. A dealer can charge hatever he/she wants. That's why you have dealer's getting $30K over MSRP on Shelby GT 500 Mustang's. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggested_retail_price
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    No, Saturn was always the "different kinda dealership". The customer friendly, no haggle with the price dealership, and all that good stuff. One price for all is what I was told time and time again. Well you can deal for a better trade-in price, or take off those stupid add-ons they try to stick people with, such as theft window etching and pin stripes. Always liked the clean and shall we say modern looking showrooms of Saturn, and the seemingly eager to please salespeople. Gone is the plastic cars though, so the truly different autos are no more. Just another car. The no haggle pricing and upscale looking dealership, with the promise of customer first service is hopefully staying around. Only thing at Saturn now to set it apart from the rest.
    Loren
  • torque_rtorque_r Member Posts: 500
    From autonews.com

    Pontiac is a slacker in GM's bid to cut fleet sales

    Pontiac had fleet sales of 44.9 percent in the six-month period from September through February, despite General Motors' efforts to cut overall fleet sales. But Pontiac's sales to fleet dropped to about 31 percent in February. Based on comparisons of R.L. Polk vehicle registration data and overall sales, fleet sales have made up 40 percent or more of total Pontiac sales in five months of the six-month period. story Published: 4/23/07
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