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Comments
I do not know what GM has planned to compete in this class. I hope something. I think the 8 speed transmission was built for one ups-man-ship.
Please provide a link that stated "everyone" is moving beyond 6-speed.
If you can't then let's just drop it before it gets too ugly.
I dont have a problem with the 8 speed and I can easily put two and two together. Seeing as though the LS starts at $60k the fact that it has an 8 speed means little to me. for cheaper cars the 8 speed is not a reality and it wouldnt even make sense for Lexus to try and force customers to pay for an 8 speed in cheaper cars because the benefits over a 6 speed are minimal.
Mileage can depend on a number of factors and the LS' 8 speed is ONE factor that lead it to post better mileage than some of its competitors. I sincerely doubt that people paying $70k for a car care about 1mpg. I doubt anyone purchasing the LS is doing so solely because it has an 8 speed vs the 7 speed in the S550. As usual, the LS big price advantage is its biggest plus.
What did you get from it? I think its pretty self explanatory and totally inaccurate. Accuracy doesnt count when you are cracking on GM though. Unless you are on the Edmunds payroll I dont see why you are are so adamant that they are 100% objective. There is no excuse for what they wrote and this type of attitude is just one more reason why people perceive GM (and all domestic brands) as inferior to Asian brands.
Agree.
However, you couldn't deny that the new "world's first 8-speed" claim did give Lexus the ability to market the s**t out of it. Good publicity stunt too. I know you wouldn't fall for it but there are many others who would.
Which sounds more impressive to you (okay, not to you, to the majority of the population):
World's first 8-speed automatic transmission
vs
World's first advanced 6-speed automatic transmission
In this business it's all about having decent products (which GM is doing right now) with good packaging (which GM sucks at it) and market the heck out of it (which GM also sucks at it except the it's ourrrrrrr country ads).
I put the 8 speed trans in the same category as the hybrid. Too much complexity leads to more problems in the future. I am not talking about the fat cats that lease and dump after 3 years. For those of us that buy a car for the life of it. Hopefully 15 or more years.
I would be more apt to buy a vehicle with a tried 6 speed transmission than first one out with a 7-8 speed.
Always? Not in my experience. I consider "chunk"ing and surging to be flaws, though GM is hardly alone in foisting that upon the general public.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying GM sucks at "packaging". If you are talking about wrapping your product in attractive sheetmetal than I would say GM is doing pretty well there lately. I think GM design is way ahead of Ford, Chrysler, Hyundai, Nissan and Honda. If you are talking about packaging in terms of options, I think GM does OK there as well. Toyota and Honda are the ones who tell you the best way to have your own car equipped. GM usually lets you get a vehicle any way you want it.
Private equity's arrival in the mainstream auto industry has been heralded with much gnashing of teeth about short-termism. Ironically, a source of disappointment to many in the peanut gallery may be that the gains from even modest health-care discipline and productivity concessions are so potentially large that Cerberus won't push for a more thorough shake-up of Chrysler – say, walking away from the UAW and hiring replacement workers as Caterpillar did in its seismic showdown with the union
But it's too bad Cerberus won't be the revolutionary force in the auto industry that many are hoping for. A Chrysler truly freed from the UAW would let us finally see how a homegrown automaker could do in global competition while still providing good jobs at $47 an hour (just not gilded sinecures at $95 an hour).
The press and enthusiasts are full of cheese.
That depends on what type of problems you are talking. Transmissions are designed to last the entire life of a vehicle. Of course, we know many of those transmissions fail to do so.
A multi-speed transmission, say 7- or 8-speed, is less likely to break than 3- or 4-speed, however. Why? Because the spacing between gears is so low that when a gear shifts, the power doesn't "jump" from a gear to another. Power transfer is smoother and more relaxed. Sure, there would be some hesitation problem, due to less-than-optimal programming. But generally they should be reliable and last long.
I really liked the 5 speed tiptronic in both my Passat TDI and Sprinter RV. Those were very smooth in manual or auto mode.
The 6 speed in the Escalade I drove was seamless. Just like silk, sooooo smooooth.
LS 8 speed $61K base price
IS/ES/GS/SC 6 speeds
SUV's 5 speeds
Toyota cars 4 or 5 speed
Trucks 4 or 5 speeds
Scion all 4 speeds
Hybrids CVT's
No, GM is not behind the world leader except for one vehicle and is even or ahead in most others.
So today GM seems to be very competitive in tranny speeds. 3 years from now? All depends on what everyone does. i surely do not know the answer to that. GM was behind in trans but jumped ahead to 6 speeds when Toyota stayed at 5. Perhaps GM is now working on 8 speeds for it's bread and butter vehicles?
Pretty sure the "bugs" are already out of the Toyota Camry 6-speed.
As matter of fact, the 6 speeds on the Lexus IS, ES and GS are all pretty much trouble free so far.
Camry V6: 6 speed
Tundra 5.7L V8: 6 speed
Even so it looks like GM is even/ahead in most segments. New GM Trucks have 6 speeds as do new midsize products.
Uh, wrong again...
Both the 2007 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra only come with 4-speed.
The 4.0L V6 and 4.7L V8 Tundra come with 5-speed while the 5.7L V8 version comes with 6-speed.
Saturn Aura XE & Greenline: 4-speed
Saturn Aura XR: 6-speed
Pontiac base & GT: 4-speed
Pontiac GTP: 6-speed
Toyota Camry I4: 5-speed
Toyota Camry V6: 6-speed
Toyota Camry Hybrid: CVT
Do we think the new Corrolla will be a 6 speed?
Don't think the new Corolla will come with a 6-speed since it'll come with 4-cylinder only. Expect a 5-speed auto as standard.
Certainly doesn't apply to Hondas a few years ago. They extended the warranty because of failures. Camry, Avalon, ES model have had transmission problems.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Japanese version gets a CVT as the only automatic. The domestics had better bust a hump on their CVT programs, or they'll get left behind again.
Edit: the Auris (Euro Corolla) also gets some sort of SMG box. No slushboxes anywhere, though.
Uh, wrong again...
Actually the GM trucks do have 6 speeds just like the Toyotas. They are only on certain models at both companies. GM will have 6 speeds on all models once they rampup the plant capacity.
I despise automatics so I don't much care either way, but representing that the industry makes 6-speeds the norm and is already shifting to more gear ratios was wrong of that article writer.
GM made a good decision in going straight from 4 speeds to 6 in their automatics, because they were notably behind the norm with such widespread use of a 4-speed. More gear ratios will allow them to reduce the size of their engines somewhat while improving fuel efficiency and maintaining the performance standard GM buyers are accustomed to.
Now if only they could eradicate the last of the 4-speed autos in the large cars! And certainly, the number of gear ratios is price-sensitive, so cars in the Aveo's class (for instance) can be expected to use only four for some time to come I think. Nissan's CVT and Honda's 5-speed provide the exceptions to this rule.
The compact standard seems to be changing to 5-speed autos for new models, let's hope they are working on a better automatic for the next Cobalt.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They also are a little more toward middle-of-the-road in their choice of words about the GM product. They are just not negative in shortcomings of some of the other cars in the group, i.e., the ES 350 whic was much slower than the Lucerne in the accident avoidance. If it were to have been the other way around, I'm sure it would have been mentioned negatively in the Lucerne review. Old dogs don't change their spots.
The Lucerne is rated for the CXL and CX as having shortcomings in their suspensions compared to the CSX which CR had reported upon. They also say only the CXS has the stabilitrack available. Is that right?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would think a 6 sp. or a 5 sp. is plenty to give one a pretty good tall gear or two, while giving a nice spread in-between. As far as durable or smooth, when compared to the old 4 sp. once the bugs were squished, and it was perfected, perhaps nothing better in that respect. The old Cadillac Seville had a very smooth 4 speed. But, there is nothing wrong with a very smooth six, as if memory serves me right, will not cost more than a 5 sp. to build, and may enhance performance and gas mileage a bit.
My car has a 5 speed, with a selection on the shifter for 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd which works out well for those country curvy roads where you drive under 45 MPH, or if going downhill is steep and you car to keep speed down. The drive selection takes care of 4th and 5th tall gears, and gas mileage is not bad. The new 6 sp. of GM gives even more spread, with around the same gas mileage, and with the paddle shifter you can hold the gears below say 4th or 3rd for those country road corners. Both work fine. Both seem to be better than having only 4 sp. Can I live with less? Well sure, cars had 3 sp. or even 2sp. but things change, and sometimes for the better.
One hopes, and prays, that the new cars will not become too expensive to ever repair, and thus disposable. The seven, or eight speeds seem like overkill. Like someone else pointed out, why not go CVT at a certain point.
Loren
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was merely responding to the notion that Toy/Lex does not offer a competitor to the Lambdas, by saying that it does, it is just still styled to look like what it is, a minivan (the Sienna XLE in this specific case).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Stability is available on the CXL with V8. CR apparently doesnt get that the CXS has a sportier suspension than the base model lucerne. I dont think the CX or CXL are dangerous by any means, they just have softer suspensions. I doubt its any softer than the ES350's.
I really think that like the 8 speed Lexus, etc. the GM announcement is a little bit of PR to say they are on top of it. Nothing wrong with that.
I understand your comment. But I believe the continual drumbeat of "GM shoulda this; GM shoulda that; I knew they shoulda done this 10 years ago; I knew they should not have done that 10 years ago; why did they do it?" always goes on. I find for the motors I've had the transmissions do just fine. I find that the Edmunds Inside line has the expected dig at serviceable transmissions just because someone has gone to 10 speeds, then that's the only thing anyone else should be developing.
I agree with the comment if it doesn't appreciably affect gas mileage, who cares. Six speeds will most likely cover the motors with less of a flat torque curve.
I see the same thing going on in another discussion. Anything the company did, plans to do has to be right at the competition that's envisioned in the poster's head. Then when the product is aimed at that exact competitor, the drumbeat will be "It's not good enough. The competitions has a satswatch and this new product doesn't."
End of rant and it's not at the poster Fezo. It's at the whole concept of Edmund's themes and CD's themes from their
testersexperts who think the only cars people want to buy are 150 mph, 0-60 in 3 second hot rods.2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BTW, the auto tranny failed on my '90 Sable at 93K miles (I lost 4th gear).
No other tranny failures in any other cars I owned except the clutch on my '75 lemon Rabbit at only 13K miles. I wouldn't count the clutch at 220K miles on my old Volvo 240! Clutches have to wear out eventually, like brakes and tires.
But the '77 Impala I bought used at over 100K miles had the transmission rebuilt by the former owner in the 60K range.
Aren't those supposed to be 500K mile cars!!!
Back in '77 (before my time) weren't auto transmissions a high failure item? Noone drained transmission fluid regularly. It was supposed to be lifetime and lifetime was usually befoe you hit 100K miles.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I can remember problematic automatic trannies. My uncle's '62 Pontiac Catalina (bought used) always seemed to be in the shop with tranny woes. In the same vein, I remember the TV repairman at our house for multiple attempts to fix the old black-and-white.