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Sounds like something you get done at the dentist's office!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And let's be frank- most of the new product introductions of the past 5 years for GM have not been exactly big hits- the LaCrosse, the Malibu, the G6 come to mind- trucks and big SUV's are better, those seem to be in GM's core competancy, cars aren't. And it would seem to be naive to think that they Asians, Europeans, Ford, Daimler Chrysler will be sitting on their hands waiting for GM to come back- I still think that GM would do well to hang on to market share in North America, look to growth overseas and cutting costs all around. This is a company that "has its best future behind it"
"All"? Light years ahead?
Would be interested in an enumeration of these GM models vs the competition.
most all of them are in japan.
toyota "stock" is traded here as ADRs (American
depository recipts)which equal 2 shares of actual
toyota stock in their HOME country of japan NOT the
USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you know BIG spending toyota only pays a .17 cent
dividend per share SEMI-annually?
Go to toyota.com to see the actual majority of "share"
owners and where they live. Sure ain't the USA !
Then take a trip over to one of the stockbroker forums
and get the lowdown on why these companies that are
here to "help and invest in the USA" use this ADR scam
instead of being incorporated in good old Delaware USA!
Quite the eyeopener !!!!!!!!!!!
For a very good review of the LaCrosse, as a comparison to a Camry check this sight. The writer usually knocks GM but he gave LaCrosse a very good review. Keep in mind the LaCrosse is called an Allure in Canada and this is the reason why;
Confusing matters was the need to rename the car for the Canadian market, from the U.S. name LaCrosse, which describes a self-fulfilling sexual act in Quebecois teenage slang.
link title
One thing I found troubling was this;
The Camry boasts standard side airbags, unavailable on the Allure and standard side-curtain airbags, optional on the Allure.
I think all car companies should have enough respect for their customers that they should put as much safety in their vehicles as possible...even Hyundai does it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Perhaps if GM had put all that dividend money into its products, it wouldn't be in such severe hurt...
-Loren
Oh, I agree. No better deal than a two or three year old American sedan. Too bad for the domestics.
JD Powers latest news on Initial Quality.
Initial Quality Report
-Loren
Toyota got 11 firsts out of 19 segments. Had 15 vehicles in the top 3 of the 19 segments (57 spots). Darn good.
GM earned only 2 top spots with 11 vehicles in top 19 segments. Not great but better than most.
Honda had no top spots and only 5 in top 3. Acura not anywhere except for TL.
Hyundai is the big winner with 5 in the top 3.
Really big winner is Hyundai now at spot #3 above Toyota and just below Lexus(which is now 2nd under Porsche).
Cadillac still is up in the top 10 which now includes GMC. Chevrolet is now at industry average. Big loser is Buick dropping below industry average (but above MB/Scion/BMW/Mazda/VW). VW is still at the bottom just above Isuzu(they still here?) and Land Rover.
What the hell happened to Buick??? Last year LaCrosse just missed the top 3 spots in the midsize but was still above the Camry/Accord. whoops. Looks like the W cars have been moved into the large segment leaving the Camry and Accord in the midsize to win? Rainier was #2 in Midsize MAV (Multi-Activity Vehicle). Maybe the Minivan and the Lucerne dragged them down.
Grand Prix #1 in large car now and Impala not seen in top 3.
Well maybe now JD matches CR. :surprise: JD did change the survey. They were just about problems, now they ask how features work. We will see what the data says.
Actually Oshawa came in first.
Means most everyone is doing well in Initial quality. Range is 91 PPH to 204 PPH. That is about one problem per vehicle vs. 2.
No, I'm saying that the transplants - Toyota included - are investing their profits to expand design, engineering and production facilities in the U.S. This is well documented. These facilities employ thousands of Americans who spend their money in their communities.
These companies make a significant contribution to the local economies where they locate facilities. Even more importantly, they contribute to the country's industrial base by bringing in new ideas and production methods. Honda, for example, has been quite willing to share its methods with other companies, even allowing GM personnel to tour its facilities to garner new ideas.
If GM, Ford and the UAW can't learn from these competitors because of union contracts, past practice or plain old stubborness, that is their problem, not ours.
Incidentally, if people are to be concerned about "where the money goes," I guess that Europeans should never buy an Opel/Vauxhall or Ford.
At different times, profits generated by the European subisidiaries of GM and Ford have been used to keep the parent company afloat when the North American operations were in the red (i.e., Ford in the early 1980s).
I certainly hope that Europeans don't decide to boycott Opels, Vauxhalls and Fords because of where the money they spend might go (i.e., out of Europe).
You seem to be using answers that aren't to the same question I asked about where the money goes: "Lots of money stays here."
Did you mean to say "all"?
No, I meant to say "lots"
You, in your prior post, said it would be best if the "more money" stayed here. I answered your question - lots of money is staying here, as the transplants are plowing money into American-based design, engineering and production facilities. This is well documented.
In the future, as the American market becomes more important to the transplants (the Japanese market has been stagnant), even "more money" will stay here, as it will make sense to invest in a stronger American presence.
(A manufacturer must eventually tailor its vehicles to local tastes if it wants long-term success. Hence, the need for design, engineering and production facilities in that particular country or region. GM and Ford found this out prior to World War II, and the big Japanese players have discovered it again.)
The real problem is that some can't accept that the American automobile market is evolving, and some companies aren't doing well in adapting to this change.
The American auto market is evolving in the direction of the European market. There will be five or six big players, and some of those players will be foreign companies with significant design and production facilities in the U.S. market.
As in the European market, there is less room for badge engineering, brands without clear identities are fading away and companies must work hard to stand out from competitors.
"Good enough" isn't good enough anymore.
These trends will continue in the U.S.:
An increasing number of cars will be assembled with non-union labor.
No one company will dominate, especially as GM did from 1941-1981.
Weaker brands - Pontiac, Mercury, Mitsubishi, maybe even Buick and Lincoln - will die.
National origin will be a decreasing factor in buying decisions.
Instead of manufacturing excuses - currency manipulation; evil doings at Consumer Reports; asking where the money goes; consumers too stupid to realize that selling large numbers of vehicles to Alamo is a good thing; etc., etc. - it would be better to demand that companies manufacture the best vehicles possible to compete in this changed market.
The JD Powers award has an award for almost everybody. I don't see an award for GM but their car plant in Oshawa Canada comes 2nd in quality.
Also, lets see the rankings! It's very confusing. As I said before, it does mean something, but not a whole lot...Mercedes says it gets knocked for excessive brake dust but it is because they need brakes that will work at faster speeds on the Autobon. And, cars like MB also add gadgets first in their new stages when problems can develop, however they have a 5 year bumper to bumper.
So, the information is very useful....but has to be used carefully.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
While the new "utes" are nice, they're in no way light years ahead. I would actually give that crown to the blue oval guys. Ford in my opinion makes the best SUV's Now if only they could get the powertrains right, Ford SUV's would be killer. The new Expo seems promising with 6 spd auto, IRS, power liftgate, DVD nav, new interior. We'll see.
Rocky
Rocky
I like it better than Roundyvoo!!!
Having had the same car for 21 years (1980 Volvo 240, from 1982-2003), you can see where I'm coming from.
Great looks, but does the world really need another nearly 5000-pound SUV?
Sedans:
Sub-Compact:-------- Kia Rio/Rio Cinco
Compact:------------ Toyota Corolla
Mid-size:----------- Toyota Camry
Large cars: -------- Pontiac Grand Prix
Entry Premium: ----- Lexus IS 250/350
Midsize Premium:---- Lexus ES330
Large Premium: ----- Lexus LS430
Coupes/Sports:
Compact Sporty: ---- Mazda MX-5
Compact Premium: --- Porche Cayman
Midsize Sporty: ---- Toyota Solara
Premium Sporty: ---- Lexus SC430
SUV
Compact:------------ Hyundai Tucson
Midsize: ----------- Toyota Highlander
Large: ------------- Toyota Sequoia
Midsize Premium: --- Lexus GX470
Large Premium: ----- Lexus LX 470
Minivans: ---------- Chrysler Town & Country
Trucks:
Midsize: ----------- Ford Ranger
Preium: ------------ Chevrolet Silvarado
- Unfortunately, one of GM's is toward the end of its cycle. The other might be discontinued in 2 years.
- Rumors about Toyota loosing quality have been greatly exaggerated. Toyota is still tops. However, some quality issues with new models like the Avalon puts it down to second mainstream brand behind Hyundai.
"All"? Light years ahead?
Would be interested in an enumeration of these GM models vs the competition."
Good call, xrunner... Rocky has a proclivity toward speaking in hyperbole. IMO, the GM SUVs, all of them, haven't yet caught up to the 03 Ford SUVs yet, and this new generation of GMSUVs look great, but are the same old SUVs under the hood and frame, basically. They are among the oldest tech trucks on the road.
I think this might very well be the true "national sport" of most every country. :P
I don't think he meant it the way it came out. Heh.
is any GM SUV as good as the X5 (for what the X5 does)? Maybe the SRX. I'll give GM the nod on that.
Of course, if all you want is a truck, buy GM, by all means
If the Lucerne can not be milked for enough sales, then Buick is finished. Need a couple hits, like the ummm, I have to say it, Caddy SUV, then the CTS which were a good 1-2 punch. Really Escaladed the sales. Cadillac climbed the ladder to success.
Has someone forgotten the Eldorado? Seek the Eldorado and break free of the Enclave, there is gold beyond the life of the ordinary life within the city of boxy SUVs. The power, the sleekness, and prestige of the great coupe should return. Sadly Elvis can not.
:shades: -Loren
Rocky
P.S. I do miss the Eldorado, and if I wasn't going to buy my grandma's Aurora, I was going to seriously consider one.
Things are not breaking but buyers are not happy with the way something works.
That's funny! But now I can't look at a LaCrosse without breaking out in laughter. I hope the name "Enclave" doesn't have some meaning in French!
For those who missed it (a LaCrosse is called an Allure in Canada);
Confusing matters was the need to rename the car for the Canadian market, from the U.S. name LaCrosse, which describes a self-fulfilling sexual act in Quebecois teenage slang.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/AUTO01/606080379
Rocky
P.S. Story about Dad and Aunt's plant.
One of the requirements of the job was to have reliable transportation - i.e. a vehicle that runs. A lot of these guys didn't have cars and were relying on public transportation. That summer, SEPTA went on strike and our manager had to send taxis at the company's expense to get these people to various jobs. Not that it mattered. These guys were so incredibly dumb and lazy many hours were spent after the job was completed correcting all their mistakes. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this job. I was a veteran after three weeks and am still doing it nearly 13 years later.
A lot of these guys had such a poor work ethic, just getting them to come in was a Herculean task. We could've paid them $25 a hour and they'd still have preferred to stay at home and smoke crack. Needless to say, they all got fired or quit in a short time. Bums!
tmsusa, "2007 Toyota Camry Woes" #230, 7 Jun 2006 10:57 pm
I always found the shorter the explanation to a hypothesis (problem) the more likely it is the correct explanation. This one is really long. My Judge Judy like thinking is that there's something else going on here.
Anybody think GM should be having company reps get on the boards to explain problems early on with on say the LaCrose/Allure, Lucerne, Enclave, etc.?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So they seem concentrated there, his explanation. Those are the ones getting hired in your example. I thought they stayed there because that's where the drugs and free benefits were.
They aren't going to make good labor. Lack of mental ability from lifetime of bad choices. I've worked with them also. When they're the ones in the parts factories, there will be more problems with quality and supplies.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Ya'll gotta see this..... :shades:
Rocky
But IMO, a lot of people posting have "car hypochondria" (and I've said as much), worrying about every little bump that emanates from the transmission. It's as if they believe they should NEVER feel a transmission shifting at all. Maybe they need 2-speed Chevy Powerglides!
There's a lot of dumping on "drive-by-wire" also; these posters must be too young to remember the bad old days of sticking mechanical throttle linkages and the attendant problems.
WARNING: ANECDOTE AHEAD. I have two Camrys, both with the adaptive transmissions and drive-by-wire. No problems, smooth as silk, and I love the way they downshift when they sense you're descending a steep grade.
BTW, I don't go trolling through the Buick LeSabre or other GM Problems and Solutions boards looking for "proof" of defects. And what's wrong with company reps posting here? If nothing else, it will ease the concerns of the hypochondriacs.
Rocky
My buddy's '06 Xterra has a 5-speed automatic, and I don't like it because I CAN'T feel it shift! I think all the gear ratios are pretty close together too, so even trying to watch the tachometer, you don't see much of a drop. It's more like watching the tach drop after you let off the gas for a moment, but staying in the same gear.
I guess I'd get used to it though, if I drove it regularly.
I've never had a transmission smart enough to downshift by itself on a steep grade, but on my Intrepid, if you set the cruise control on, and come to a steep grade, it'll downshift to keep you from going over that speed. Personally I don't like it, but again, it's probably just something I'd have to get used to.
As for back when GM went from the 4-speed automatic to a 3-speed with a torque converter, I'm not sure if it was for smoothness or performance. I think a torque converter helps out with the multiplication? They also started lowering car floors in the early 60's, and the old 4-speed Hydramatic was a big unit, so it started cutting more noticeably into the passenger area, resulting into a bigger tranmission hump. The 3-speed units were smaller and shorter, and took up less space. Probably cheaper to make, too.
J. D. POWER 2006 Initial Quality Study
· 2 Segment Winners
o Pontiac Grand Prix
o Chevrolet Silverado LD
· 11 Models – Top 3 (includes winners) – second only to Toyota
o Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Corvette, Tahoe, Silverado HD
o GMC Savana, Yukon, Sierra HD
o HUMMER H2
o Buick Rainier
· Gold North/South America Plant & Gold Europe Plant
o Oshawa 2 – Gold plant for 2nd consecutive year
o GM has led in manufacturing quality (North/South America) for
five consecutive years
o 7 of top 15 plants in North/South America are GM
o Magna Steyr plant in Graz, Austria earned Gold Europe Plant
award – produces Saab 9-3 Convertible
· Cadillac & GMC in top 10 brands
· 3 GM brands above industry average – Cadillac, GMC & Chevrolet
· Chevrolet Corvette – Top 10 of all industry leading models
· GM swept Large Pick-up segment – Chevrolet Silverado LD & HD models,
Sierra HD
· 22 GM models above average
· GM’s overall improvement – 25% over past five years; 11% improvement
this year alone
· GM’s warranty performance at an all time low – 40% improvement over
past few years
Instead we have people constantly dumping on the cars because they had a 1988 Olds and the trans went out at 80K mi. Never mind the service/usage history but it went out. So we agree that cars will have problems, unless it's Porsche or Lexus 430, by the JD Powers review yesterday. How major the problems are we can't discuss. But the Camry and Avalon seem to both have problems like others cars.
I'm not sure why you want to go back to Powerglide days but those trans did serve well, didn't they. I had a 1961 Chev that I bought at a driver when a woman totaled my car and that thing was still running great when I dumped it in 1981. Trans was never serviced. Of course those were the days when trans usually went 60-80K mi and needed work. People traded cars before 100K because they just didn't last longer than that without problems. Darned US automakers just didn't know how to build them.
It sounds like the adaptive transmissions new in the Lexus, Avalon, and Camry are different than previous ones. I infer that by reading the company rep's comments between the lines. I'm glad you have had good luck with your cars; I wouldn't wish bad luck on anyone (well, almost no one-email me for a short list) grin.
Didn't Reagan do a good job managing the country. Nice analogy there.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=GLnZTpdpSWy- 3LhfNc5vTdZxs4yHMGGHrtLm1vql13Xy9TdGMqqPZ!-773041096?styleid=100553064&styleid=1- 00653451&styleid=100565659&styleid=100650682&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=specs-
XC90- 5000 lbs
X5- 6000 lbs
SRX- 1000 lbs
Note: all are speced out with V8's
And just for kicks, I looked up my MDX. Towing capacity is 4500 lbs... with a V6.
You lost my confidence with that one. A lot of times She simply looks at the situation and forms an opinion without hearing the facts. That's what a lot of posters do here.
Yeh, I know it will make a great used buy in 3 years time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250