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Comments
Rocky
The point here is that if they want to use the zeta for a Chrysler 300 style sedan with a 120 inch wheelbase, can they build a 110 inch wheelbase coupe too?
Up close, the Camaro sits up very high, and it's wide. It's almost like they took a pre-downsized 70's full-sizer, chopped the roof, took about a foot out of the wheelbase, but preserved the width, and the weight. While the roof of the car is low, this is not a low-slung car.
Going back to the real thing, I prefer the '67-69 Camaro to the '67-69 Mustang. However, fast forwarding to today, I think I like the new Mustang better than the Camaro concept. The Mustang, while heavy and a bit large-ish, still seems like a modern update of the original. The Camaro seems like a caricature of the original.
Rocky
Rocky
Right. It would need to lose weight and slim down. Maybe come in at 3200 lbs. This would help handling, acceleration, gas mileage. Wonder what the concept would like like parked next to a 68 Camaro (not the awkward 69).
Re concept seems like a caricature of original. Make that cartoonish.
The zeta platform is supposed to be much cheaper than the sigma (or sigma II) and so the expectations were to build a number of vehicles on this platform. However, zeta is a heavy platform as designed by Holden.
Am I the only one who's finding this a bit odd?
Plastic and luxurious in the same sentance... um... HOW ABOUT NO PLASTIC, GM! Or at least cover it in something that won't crack or distort.
As for RWD, they need to follow Volvo and Mercedes' older examples. Small inline engines with timing chains and add in a non-interference design while they are at it. Dropping some aging lump like a 3800 into a car and calling it sporty isn't going to solve the problem.
That and stickshift. Offer it on every 6 or 8 cylinder car that's RWD, even if it's a special order item. Serious drivers who want that muscle-car experience will usually choose a manual transmission if they have an option. A Tiptronic type transmission would be somewhat acceptable as a compromise, but it needs to have a proper shifting pattern instead of this up/down nonsense. Starting in second or doing a 4th to 2nd shift isn't possible with the current versions GM is making, for instance. Say you are lugging the engine in traffic trying to save gas/cruising along and need to shift into second to quickly move out of the way to dodge the car in front of you that suddenly slowed down. On my old Volvo 240 I had years ago, I could do this without a second thought. New automatics with the paddles or shifters you nudge up and down - you can't bypass gears very well.
A 5 or 6-speed layout, even if it's just a selector joystick is worlds better. Feels like a manual. Just no clutch.
But it's these little things that GM seems to just not think are important. Rather than innovate and take ideas from competitors and from customers, we get groupthink rental fleet mantality. People have been practically screaming for RWD in GM's larger vehicles for a decade, for instance, and GM just follows the pack like a second-rate Hollywood director who copies the latest movie or TV show trend.
We've all seen the results. All those little things add up to a car that's just not as good as the competition. It's not bad, either, just... feels like you're buying the generic version of the real thing at the gorcery store.
But GMs are great cars to buy used because they depreciate like rocks. Not quite sure this is what GM wants in a customer, though... :P
Rocky
GM's automatics will skip down more than one gear if you let them do it automatically. And the RWD's 5 speed's do have "triptronic".
The 3800 is supposed to be phased out of production around 2008.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
If the Velite is to compete with the CLK, the price tag will be about $60,000. The base price could be less, maybe with the 3800 about $50,000 and hand crank windows.
I believe Lutz said it.
Rocky
Yeah, but a Corvette is only about 72.6" wide. The Camaro concept is about 79.6".
Now if this platform is designed to also accommodate a traditional full-sized car, then I could see a need for the car to be that wide. But 79.6" is a pretty wide car. Even the pre-downsized 70's big cars weren't that wide. Anything over 80" and it has to be registered as a truck in some states! :surprise:
Rocky
Rocky
P.S. Tell me how a Volvo C-70 is doing it at that price point ?
The 71-76 Cadillac sedans (deVille...) were 80 inches wide.
The only way a Buick convertible will be profitable is if it is a convertible version of a sedan model. A Roadster is a two passenger convertible anyway.
Rocky
Rocky
One thing you need to try to get a grip on is that GM is not making any money. Cars like the Velite and Camaro will not make GM profitable. GM needs to make vehicles that will sell. I really do not have much hope that they can reverse the current market share slide. I really can't see GM building cars that will outsell the competition anymore. In the 60's Ford and GM built the best quality cars, while Chrysler's quality was variable. This is why Chrysler's share of the market ended up at GM. Now, GM's quality is on a par with most of the other makes, but this is not a reason to buy a GM product instead of one of the other makes. GM has maintained an above average market share because current owners of GM products tend to buy one more GM product. However, more and more GM owners are looking at the competition and finding that they like what they see.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do not hold your breath for a convertible off the LaCrosse if that is what you meant. W platform is soon gone.
If you want a Velite it will need to be done on the Kappa. Sigma will be too expensive for a Buick.
-Loren
-Loren
Rocky
Golf isn't *yawn* :P
Nah!! Think that road tests show that GTO not very good in handling. Mustang clearly outhandles GTO. Didn't some handling tests show Camry or some compact sedans from Korea and Japan beating GTO? GTO was a market failure like its Pontiac brother Aztek and that is why it was cancelled.
Rocky
Rather than resurrecting the Caprice line, GM could put Lucerne as top Chevy. Know that Buick/Pont/GMC dealership situation would be a problem with this. But, Chevrolet Lucerne has a nice ring to it and would be a decent offering at 22K-25K MSRP loaded. They would have to price it here to try and undercut Azera, Max, Camry, Accord top lines.
Exactly - like those people who are released weren't contributing anything to the company? Why were they there in the first place?
This is just smoke for Wall Street, and a desperate effort to balance the books this year.
Exactly. UAW members per agreed benefits cannot be let go even if they had nothing to do.
Even if you're right, and I don't agree - it doesn't matter if you don't sell any....
-Loren
This is just smoke for Wall Street, and a desperate effort to balance the books this year.
I disagree. Wall Street is happy because this shows GM is shuttering out dated facilities in favor of newer here, in Korea, Mexico, etc. More importantly, it means the jobs bank, which was some 7,000 or so strong, is gone. And the jobs bank was people on the pay roll contributing nothing but their bodies in case GM needed to call them up some day.
It was a bad contract that allowed them in the first place. I think GM voided it in time.
I do agree here.
With our crowded roads and low speed limits, it turns out the bling in the Mustang's nostalgic design easily outsells bland competence.
-Loren
The Camaro was indeed wider, but still rode on a small platform.
Dodge, however, didn't have that small a platform readily available, but needed to get into the game, so they brought out their Charger, which was as big as any other Dodge they had, actually. Then, their Challenger, which was shorter, but was still built on the big car platform, and was really, really wide for its length.
Perhaps, they are trying to replicate the original appearance, if not size?
Camaro and Mustang were really the only Pony cars. The rest were sports cars, in assorted flavors.
For sport and gas mileage, make the Nova again, with a nifty inline six or at the least the better 3.6 V6 with a RWD and a nice compact size. Then make the Camaro off that one. Add a smaller V8, but not the Vette engine. Keep Vettes as the premium line. As for performance wars, they may end with $4 or $5 a gallon gas some day. Even at $3+, why not get 30 MPG with a good six? Let those in need of street braggin' rights, go to the parts bin and put on blowers and nitros, or whatever turns them on to get the power. They do it with i4 engines all the time. They drag race those, what 500 to 1,000 some HP Civics, or something crazy like that! And it is more fun to do the add-on things anyway. The dealership could sell them as the factory optional blowers, or whatever they do with the Scion line of cars. Keep the Camaro and Nova as one six and one small block eight, at say 260HP & 320HP.
-Loren
-Loren