By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The lack of back seat room has always been a sore point with the W-body, as far as I'm concerned. I don't care what the interior published interior measurements state, the simple fact is that once I get the front seat to where I'd be comfortable, I wouldn't then be able to fit in the back, unless I hop in sideways! And it's not just because I'm tall...that rear seat area gets so tight and contorted that I don't think you'd be able to get any adult back there! Oh, and to add insult to injury, my head hits the ceiling back there! What ever happened to the days when a full-sized car could actually seat 6 people my size?!
I think one reason the '02+ Altima has impressed me is because of the interior room. Again, not the published dimensions, necessarily, but how my body actually fits. Plenty of room up front for me. In fact, I think the seat goes back a bit further than the Impala or my Intrepid. But even with the seat all the way back, I fit fine in the Altima's back seat as well. And my head doesn't touch the ceiling!
Right now I think my biggest complaint against the Altima is the comparatively low highway EPA estimate of the 4-cyl. It's rated at something like 23/29 with the automatic, while an Accord/Camry is more like 24/34 or 24/33. Maybe if they put a 5-speed automatic with the 4-cyl, it would help? But then most of my driving is local, short trip driving, so in most situations I don't think the highway economy would affect me much.
Now GM's larger cars are pretty roomy IMO. I think the new Lucerne is a pretty roomy, comfy car. The G-bodies were kind of hit or miss with me, though. I thought the LeSabre felt pretty roomy, and naturally the DeVille, but the Bonneville and Aurora felt a bit snug to me. And the Park Ave really didn't feel any bigger inside to me than a LeSabre, although I'm sure that according to published measurements it was.
Still, it's a shame that GM can't make something Impala/LaCrosse-sized that's roomier in the back seat. I swear I fit better in the back of a Malibu than I do in the Impala. Or even a 2006 Civic! :surprise:
That's actually a pretty sad commentary on the state of modern automobiles! Now personally I love the '58-60 T-bird, and I think the '60 is my favorite of the 3 years. But I think in general, so-called auto critics, historians, etc don't look back too fondly on them. Although I can't remember if it's the styling or the poor performance/handling, or the fact that they replaced the "timeless" 2-seater models that draws the most criticism? I have heard the terms "pig" associated with them, because of their sloppy handling. I know all cars handled bad back then, but supposedly they took it to a new level.
A recent post says it's okay to have a sporty car with a small rear seat for occasional back seat usage, hence the Mustang is okay and a hot hatch should sell. I'm not sure what a hot hatch is. Can someone explain?
The H bodies and Park Ave had similarities, but the front kneeroom seemed larger. The G? body dash was designed first. The H body dash comes closer to the knees. The Park Avenue had an extra couple inches in the rear knee room. some of the extra 1.5 inch wheelbase and 5 inches total diff was in the rear knee and seat thickness.
The width of cars is deceiving. I used to shop by sitting in the driver's seat or in the middle and spreading my arms to touch the doors on both sides. I decided some cars appeared large laterally but weren't; perhaps because of the visual effect of the shapes of the armrests, handles, dash whch others were wider but appeared smaller. The hip vs shoulder width also is a factor to measure rather than perceive. Salesmen used to look at me funny when I whipped out a tape measure.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Well, my Dad has a 2003 Regal, and just going by my experience, I can't fit any more comfortably in the back seat of a LaCrosse or newer Impala than I can in his Regal. While the LaCrosse does have a 1.5" longer wheelbase than the Regal did, I don't think that really means anything. Look at the 2004+ Grand Prix, or even the '97-03. They were on the longer 110.5" Impala wheelbase as well, yet seemed to actually have the smallest back seat of all the W's. And the LaCrosse does look to me like it uses the same basic body shape as the Grand Prix. Longer wheelbase overall, but with a fairly long hood, long-ish rear deck (by today's standards) and a closely coupled greenhouse.
Now overall, I'd think this back seat issue wouldn't be that big of a deal for most of the market, because how often do you put a 6'3" person behind another 6'3" person in a car? I'm glad to hear though, that I'm not alone in my perception that the W's backseat is under-sized!
I never really understood the hiproom measurement in cars. In the old days, I think they used to measure hiproom between the armrests, while shoulder room was measured between either the innermost part of the door panel or the B-pillar. So, since an armrest usually sticks out 2-3 inches on each side, you'd think that overall hiproom would be about 4-6 inches less than shoulder room. But I've seen measurements nowadays where the hiproom ends up being a larger number than shoulder room! Maybe they try to take into account hollowed-out contouring in the seats or something?
And speaking of contouring, I think that's another reason why these days, a car with generous shoulder room might still not be comfortable for more than two passengers. My buddy has an '04 Crown Vic, and if any car would have the shoulder room for it, that car would. However, the seats are contoured for two people. Put a third in the middle, and he's uncomfortable sitting on that center spot with the armrest poking him in the back. But worse, it moves the outer passengers out of alignment with the contouring, which forces them to lean inward with their backs turned at an angle. Further, these cars has a large driveshaft hump and not much foot room under the seats, so overall it just doesn't make for a comfy car for 3-across.
I think some cars might put the driver's position closer to the door, too, so when you look over to the right, you feel like you have alot of room, but then on the left, your elbow is constantly hitting something because you're right up against the door. I've run into that problem with my buddy's '06 Xterra. Sometimes I'd go to stretch my arm a bit, as I have in my Intrepid or pickup, but then in this thing I whack my elbow on the window glass!
Rocky
Many country's have had revolts because a certain class is greedy and takes and takes and squashes everyone else below him. The people will get tired of it and revolt maybe not physically, but politically.
Rocky
The W's are inefficient compared to todays cars in interior to exterior efficiency. I think the new G6/Epsilon even has more backseat room. Headroom in the rear was compromised in the LaCrosse to get a faster styling profile.
Waiting to see how the Eps 2 turn out. Should be about the same size as a Camry/Accord?
Rocky
If you are referring to sheet metal design and what the back seat gets, it gets, you are somewhat right. Styling usually overplays rear seat headroom to an extent. Goals are made and styling then trys to do the best they can with those rear headroom targets. However once the car is designed many, many hours of drive/seat time are spent tuning in the foam cushions for best comfort.
When I see a car I want to "try" I open the rear door and sit in that first in the showroom. Salesmen look at you funny. Company spent a fortune to make you impressed by the front driver's seat on first check and here I sit on rear! Then I go to front to see how the seat was adjusted while I was in the rear. Readjust and try rear.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Best back seat for a regular size or small car was my wife's pre-GM 1992 Saab. Turbo 4 cylinder with lots of power. The car was about the size of a Camry but everyone who sat in the back thought it was great. Very high roof-line, big back door, contoured seats.
Probably most designers don't really try to make the back seat area comfortable. They design the car and whatever works works, few people actually test the back seat area.
(imidoza is an exception).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Maybe a hot hatch is a Pinto when rear-ended?
Looks like the Rabbit is back. VW would love to see the hatchback catch on again in USA. Hey, they may be on the comeback. Europeans like the versatility of the hatch. The Rabbit/Golf may be kinda a fun car to own. The new Volvo C3 will be a cool "hot hatch".
-Loren
Not as long as there's a G35.
A compact hatchback with a hot dog motor. Typical examples include the Nissan 180SX, Honda/Acura Integra Type-R, and the VW Golf R32.
There are lots of new non-UAW plants in the USA and new ones being built every year. Companies are coming here from around the world to build cars.
For many years now GM, Ford and Chrysler are losing sales, shutting plants and reducing workforces.
I stick with my prediction: the last UAW plant will close within 10 years, Ghosn or no.
I was thinking the same thing, no way am I going to buy a vehicle, particularly GM, that has a great number of Delphi parts for the next 2 - 3 years. By the fourth or fith year they may have their scrap rate down and quality up. Again, not a real knock to the workforce, but it's just a fact - have lived through this unfortunately. Knowing this I think GM's maret share is going to dip even lower because there are many people out there that know the same thing; add to that the whole "perceived quality" thinking and even more will not buy GM products.
I'm not really into the whole G/N/R thing, but I think the real reasons behind Kerkorian pushing for something are:
1. Get someone in there with fresh eyes, someone looking in from the outside can see my than someone with rose-colored ones
2. Ghosn has a knack of getting to the root of the problem and come up with simple, doable solutions. Solutions that can be implemented in a timely manner,
3. Ghosn determines what the strengths and weaknesses are very quickly and utilizes the strengths to help turn the weaknesses into strengths as well,
4. Ghosn is not afraid to break-up the brotherhood - meaning the good-ol-boy network - in order to get positive results
5. Ghosn knows how to make realistic plans and set realistic goals, and meet those goals and objectives.
A GM GT-R or G35? You're putting to much faith in GM to do a car "right"
5.
If we go out with another couple, the guys sit in front. Two American women, despite the fact that we are all getting fatter, can fit in the back seat of every 4-door car driven in America. So what if you can't fit there?
As the old saying goes, you don't build your church for Easter Sunday.
Now if people could realize
1) the horsepower rating at 5000 rpm means little to their typical driving patterns
2) a motor with more torque at lower motor speeds may actually be a better driver and quicker
and it's in the gearing chosen for that trans and car that makes the difference.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A free revwing high rpm motor with a stick is far more rewarding to drive than a pushrod with 4 speed that run out of steam.
Well, if they build the pews in that church too small, it doesn't matter if it's Easter Sunday or Good Friday or Christmas Mass...I'm still not going to fit! :P
I can also tell you that not too many adults, even short ones, would be comfortable behind me in an Impala. I remember one time my Dad and Granddad and I were in Dad's '03 Regal. To get Granddad in the back seat, I had to move the front seat up pretty far...far enough that I wasn't comfortable. And Granddad's not all that tall. I think he was about 5'11" at one time, but now he's over 90, and I know he's shrunk up alot!
The market for sticks is shrinking more every year. The market is for automatics. To save GM does not require offering a stick for every car made! :grin
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Will the Daewoos be the G3?
Not only has the Japan makes outclassed the Cobalt, coming soon is a new Elantra which will be mid-sized and more classy. Long wait since the Cavalier era yielded what?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
---
A hot hatch is a hatchback automobile with a sport suspension, sport seats, grippy tires, and a powerful engine.
Kinda like a BMW 3-series in a hatchback form.
The quintessential 'hot hatch' is the Volkswagen GTI.
:shades:
I'd like to see a stylish, interesting family sedan with a stock 4-cylinder. In other words, something that can take some sales from the Camry and Accord.
The SRX has been C&D's top pick for sports utes since it came out, in spite their grumblings about the interior.
Looks as though C&D should be quite pleased.
GM is dropping the Trailblazer family of UTEs in favor of the more nimble and less thirsty Acadia/Outlook/Enclave.
The forthcoming Aura meets your styling requirement. There will be a green line Aura as well. If the Green Line Vue pricing is any guide, a green line Aura will sell close to what the CamCord 4s sell for.
Just today I had 1 gas powered pressure washer, 1 flat of mums, $200 of Costco groceries, 3 bags of pop cans to return and two kids (and myself) in my Envoy. Really doubt any car could have done the job for me. I guess I could have taken 3 trips with a smaller vehicle?
Would love the Enclave though, it would do the trick for me.
Since there is a mere 6 months before Magna Int. takes
total ownership and control from DCX the employees
are making their move.............
Some of the older folks are taking the buyout......
Others are going to a DCX plant on Belvedere (spl) Ill.
A local real estate company has partnered with another real
estate company near the Belevedere (spl) plant offering
relocation/housing/moving assistance.
Big ads have been appearing in the Syracuse NY papers
the last few weeks...........
Most will stay in Syracuse and take the NEW and improved
1/2 scale pay rate..............
I am SURE Magna will have NO problem filling any job
openings............. :sick:
The mileage for the new UTEs is already close to Trailblazer level. For those really concerned about mpgs, the new dual phase hybrid system is going to be available on the big ones soon as well.
Most Trailblazer buyers - and, I expect GM hopes mini-van buyers as well - don't need more than what the Crossovers bring to the market.
I kind of hope it works with the dual phase hybrid system.
Have not heard either way, though.
But the Aura will be branded as a Saturn, which I suspect will remain a niche brand, not a primary badge. And with that pushrod 6-cylinder as the entry-level standard, that will keep it from being competitive with the market leaders.
What I don't understand is why GMNA can't offer a decent 4-cylinder in the US market, when GME is capable of doing this abroad. (I know that the Europeans do a markedly better job, because I've driven them.) Having recently spent a week with an Ecotech-4 equipped Cobalt, I'm convinced that without radical changes that GMNA is dead in the water in the US passenger car market. There's really no reason why Opels should get better drivetrains than do Chevys.
Chrysler pretty much owns the mini-van market. Much like Ford owns the Taxi/Police/Limo business.
Sales of the midsize SUV's will suffer as will the larger SUV's. I am not saying the Tahoes will lose half of sales but maybe something like 20% will go to the CUV's. GM killed the 7 passenger midsize SUV's because they knew they would just die (and the new Tahoes just are so much nicer). (I got the last Envoy XL!!) It also tows (I think 4500#) which will fit most buyers needs.
I see this being a big seller for families with children. Better MPG than the SUV's, more room than the SUV's, not a mommyvan, great styling and uplevel features. Why it even has an VVT engine with a 6 speed! Only area which can hurt this thing is pricing. If it starts at $40k sales will not be huge. (remember Yukons start at about $35K for stripper versions and they sell 100's of thousands).
I totally agree, imi..... Hardly the stragedy to resurrect with.
Just heard the President of the Cadillac Division touting the brand, with all their wonderful new stuff. Admittedly, Cadillac is the best of the company, but I'm still annoyed with the Econillac, the STS V-6...... Cadillacs should all have power, preferably V-8s.....
You may already be a GM product planner! :P
The Daewoo Gentra (2007 Chevy Aveo sedan) will be the Pontiac G3 in Mexico, and the Daewoo Matiz (one size down from the Daewoo Kalos/Aveo hatchback) is already sold there as the Pontiac G2.