I have the 2007 Camry Le 4cyl new engine with the fly by wire throttle! My car hesitates, downshifts and drops to lower gear when going over small overpasses. My dealer, the district rep. and Toyota know about 800 to 1000 similar complaints but will go to great lengths to pretend they are not there. The most reliable information I have is that it is a software problem dealing with the new electric gas pedal. What makes me mad is that Toyota will not admit to anything so I have no idea when a fix will be made. If anyone has any info please notify all concerned.
The most reliable information I have is that it is a software problem dealing with the new electric gas pedal.
can you provide any additional details on that particular point? it might help everyone who cares about the issue and is basically flying blind without hard data.
I have posted on headlight problem low beam,fixing that myself. When I purchased this car I brought all the warranties even for tires. Passenger rear tire leaking air very slow. Called Kenny Kent Dealer in Evanville IN and they told me to take it to tire repair shop and if its serious see them. Well I think this sucks Even Walmart will fix a tire I buy from them with out buying an extra tire warranty. I am beginning to not be so impressed with Toyota. I also have a valve tapping and just plan to wait for the oil change. Have to call the sales guy to get car fixed and it reminds me of a HMO he screens it and oks if I can bring the car in to get fixed. This is my first Toyota and at this rate it is going to be the last. So much for that wonderful service I have heard about over the years. When I brought Fords and Chevy if I had a light bulb to go out or other small problem they would fix it. I think Toyota has got too big and think they can do this because of their past reputation. I hope an American Car company can come out with some cars with good gas and reliability.
I got the information about the software change from a Guy called Don at toyotaopinion.com about a month ago. He seemed very informed. When I got called yesterday from the same place it was a woman informing me very rudely that they were closing my case because when they called my dealer where I took my car three times so they could reset my computer etc told them I never had a throttle delay or downshift problem. She also said there never was a person named Don working there.She would not admit that Toyota had any knowledge about any delay or shift problems. When I called my dealer they said they never received a call from toyotaopinion.com! You can see Toyota has some very serious PR problems.
I hope you told the rep that tms usa is part of the internet . . .
Listen, I agree with mesquite77's suggestions. Call our CEC and make sure you have a case opened. The number is 800-331-4331. Chances are there is absolutely nothing wrong with your Camry. I really don't know. But I've been driving your car lately and know that it is fairly easy to mistake "normal" operation of a sophisticated transmission with a feeling that something's wrong.
But perhaps something is wrong. Sounds like one of our folks says your car is running just as it should. We'll never know debating it here. If the car is fine, but you're still worried, I hope we can spend a little more time with you helping you understand how it operates. If there is a problem, we want to get it resolved. Toyota does care.
DO NOT BUY A CAMRY YOU DONT WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE AND GET A BAD ONE LIKE I DID. TOYOTA WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO FIX IT OR SAY THAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM THEY JUST SAY THAT ALL CAMRYS ARE THE SAME SO I GUESS THEY ALL SUCK. MY WIFE BOUGHT A 2006 HONDA ACCORD EX-L AND WE TOOK IT FROM KANSAS CITY TO COLORADO SPRINGS CO AND IT RAN PERFECT EVEN THE CRUISE WAS PERFECT NO UP AND DOWN IN THE SHIFTING NO HESTITATION. SO BUY A HONDA ACCORD ITS PERFECT. AND IT GOT AROUND 33 MPG AND IT ISNT EVEN BROKE IN YET. IT IS A 2.4 4CYL.
Sorry to hear that you bought one because now you are stuck with it like I am. I have a se 4cyl and toyota will not do anything about it. TOyota rep drove my car and said it drove like a camry and it hesitated bad on him i mean bad. I have drove other camrys and felf the hesitation on them and they are nothing like mine. My car is a crash just waiting to happen. I am afraid to make any harsh moves with this car. I am afraid I am going to get hit and in danger my family and i told the toyota rep that and he just looked at me and said ther is nothing mech wrong with your car and i was stuck with it, and then the customer service lady and the service manger rode along with us. I told all three of them that i would never buy a toyota again and i was going to talk bad about toyota to everyone that asked me about my car, and then the dealership said they would get me another car but i would be upside down 5,000.00 that was nice of them bastards
it doesnt take a very big hill for my car to down shift to 3rd and spike to 5 rpm and hold it for 15 to 20 secs.I have owned 28 vehicles in my life and this is the worse i have ever seen. I HATE MY CAMRY
Well i am glad that you have great faith in your company. But there is something wrong with my car. SO tell me when i bought my car it didnt run like that and now it does. I think toyota is trying to cover up this big mess that they have, but thank you for tell me that toyota cares but i really dont think they do they made their 24,000 off of me and they are happy
I don't own a Camry, I own an '05 4Runner. It seems to me if owners are complaining about something DIFFERENT than any car they have ever owned, driven, etc. Then Toyota should put a warning on all Camrys next to the MSRP that says:
"Warning - if you buy this the car the transmission behaves differently than anything you have ever known."
wonder how many new camrys they would sell????????????
I like the way you think. I bet you most of the people that have test drove the car didnt really feel the problem. I know i didnt feel the hesitation and the cruise i guess that was my fault i really didnt pay a whole lot of attention to it because who knew they would make a tranny that likes to down shift and up shift and doesnt no what gear it wants to be in cruise or not.
If toyota cares so much why don't they do what every they have to do to make my car stop vibrating. Right now I can't wait to get these people in front of the arbitrator. I am going to rip them apart.
Have you checked your tires? A lot of Bridgestones have a flat spots and driving you feel a vibration in the steering wheel and the seats and pedals. Also check the tire pressure and see if the dealership can re-balance your tires.
The new Camry's have been out about 6 months now, and I thought it would be helpful to summarize the "woes", those apparent defects reported by some owners. Their details to all of these can be extracted from the earlier posts.
1. The transmission snap ring problem, affecting some early production 6 speed transmissions, which Toyota has acknowledged. Car looses 2 gears (3rd and 6th), and for practical purposes is non-driveable. The defect is a snap-ring installation problem, and has reportedly been corrected in the manufacturing process. Cars manufactured up thru May, may have this issue. There may still be inventory on dealers lot which have this problem. Fix is to replace the transmission.
2.) The transmission/engine spiking problem, affecting some 6 speed transmissions, which Toyota has acknowledged, but hasn't yet been able to find root cause of problem and fix. As car is accelerating and then shifts, the engine rpm speed spikes up 1-2K extra before dropping into the next gear. Existing resolution attempts to replace internal transmission valve bodies and/or the whole transmission, have not resolved the concern for owners who have experienced this problem.
3.) The Engine / Transmission hesitation problem, affecting some 4 and 6 cyl, which dealers have verified symptoms but Toyota has NOT acknowledged is happening, and no resolution. Car appears to not be able to figure out what gear it should be in, get into that gear, and then accelerate. Owners experiencing this problem are obviously concerned from a safety perspective, as well as driveability. No resolution.
4.) The Cruise Control problem, affecting some 4 cylinders, which dealers have verified symptoms but Toyota has NOT acknowledged is happening, and no resolution. Car appears to not have enough power/torque to be able to hold target speed in 5th gear thru interstate typical gentle upgrades, downshifting to 4th and at times dramatically to 3rd with high RPM's to maintain speed. Driving without the use of cruise control is smooth with few transmission downshifts. Owners experiencing this problem report driveability concerns. No resolution.
I think I've summarized all the broader based "woes" that have surfaced within the first 6 months. If I've overlooked something, or effected owners and/or Toyota's TMSUSA would like to chime in and add clarification ..... please do.
My 2007 Camry 4 cyl. runs and drives great, very smooth 4 cyl feels like a luxury car at half the price,but when highway crusing at 65 MPH the engine RPM is at 3000. Most other cars that I have driven have been around 2500 RPM at this speed.Has anyone else experienced this.
That's high, sounds like it's not getting into 5th gear, or the torque converter hasn't locked up. Are you sure you have it in "D", as opposed to 4th ? (don't move the gear selector over to the left). On the gear selector where it says 4-D, 4th is on the left, 5th is in the center. Find an open area and start from a stop. Watch the rpm's as the car accelerates and you'll see the shifts. Count them to make sure it gets into 5th. After it gets into 5th and you obtain a steady state speed, you should see the rpm drop about another 300-400 rpm where the torque converter is locking up. Going from memory here, but I think 65mph is much closer to 2K rpm's.
Had an errand to run, so did a road test for you. At 65 in 4th gear, my LE 4cyl is at 2700 rpm. At 65mph in 5th gear (after torque lockup), the rpm is 2000. If you really are in 5th gear lockup and at 3000rpm, something is seriously out of whack, and your engine is turning 1000 rpm faster.
As a side note, my speedometer indicating 65mph is actually 63mph, previously cross checked with my portable GPS.
do the toyota's have a button on the shifter to enable/disable OverDrive? if so, maybe the button isn't in the proper position for the most fuel efficient cruise.
sounds like the 3K estimate is close enough to 2700 to suggest TC isn't locking up as you indicated.
I added a chart to my carspace (link upper left corner), which shows the suspected failure area for different transmission shift symptoms. There is a section for no up-shift 4->5, and one for no lockup.
I'd get your car back to the dealer, who I suspect with the proper diagnosis can resolve your problem.
An update on my Hesitation /Cruise Control/Transmission issues with my 2007 Camry LE I4-5AT (PZEV). Thanks to the good folks at Copeland Toyota in Brockton, MA, I have been able to do a three test comparison test drive between my ‘07 Camry and two fresh ’07 Camry’s (also I4-5AT.)
The tests: Test 1: CC set and maintaining 65mph on level road with acceleration from 65 to 69mph using 4 taps on CC lever. Test 2: CC set and maintaining 65mph on level road transitioning to ½ mile of moderate upgrade. Test 3: deceleration to 30mph, maintain for 5-10 seconds, attempt to acceleration to 45-50mph with moderate throttle action (not using cruise control.) ***Note: Test 1 & 2 - objective, test 3 - subjective. All vehicles at normal operating temp w/o AC operating. Each test performed on same area of roadway at 88-90 degrees. All vehicles US manufacture.
Tests 1 & 3 were performed at least three times on each vehicle while test two was performed only once on the new vehicles and twice on my vehicle due to my self-imposed restraint on putting less than 20 miles on the new vehicles.
My (PZEV) (2500 miles) Test 1 - performed 4 times, once vehicle accelerated the 4mph without coming out of lockup, two times vehicle came out of lockup to accelerate the 4mph, once vehicle came out of lockup and downshifted to 4th to accelerate the 4mph. Test 2 - Vehicle maintained 65mph before, during, and after upgrade without coming out of lockup or downshifting. Test 3 - performed 4 times, vehicle usually, but not always, seems to hesitate from 1-3 seconds with throttle application and then starts to accelerate, slowly at first, and then downshifts and then rapidly accelerates. (Sluggish throttle response) New (PZEV) (10 miles) Test 1 - performed 3 times, each time vehicle accelerated the 4mph without coming out of lockup. Test 2 - Vehicle maintained 65mph before, during, and after upgrade without coming out of lockup or downshifting. Test 3 - performed 3 times, vehicle seems to hesitate about 1-2 seconds with throttle application and then responds, once downshifting - two times not, with smooth acceleration all three times. (Crisp throttle response) New (ULEV) (15 miles) Test 1 - performed 3 times, each time vehicle accelerated the 4mph without coming out of lockup. Test 2 - Vehicle maintained 65mph before, during, and after upgrade without coming out of lockup or downshifting. Test 3 - performed 3 times, vehicle seems to hesitate about 1-3 seconds with throttle application and then responds, downshifting all three times, with initial slow acceleration changing to smooth acceleration. (Sluggish throttle response)
My comments: I was surprised at how crisp the throttle response was on the new test PZEV Camry and how sluggish it was on the ULEV. I would have expected the reverse as my PZEV model is horribly sluggish. The upgrade test was the only long hill in the local area within 10 miles of the dealer and was not a challenge, but it was the best I could do under the circumstances. I will admit that these tests are not exact, nor definitive, but I am satisfied that they show that my Camry has “the problem” to a greater degree than the other two cars, although they do exhibit it to varying degrees.
My conclusion: I believe that the throttle response on these cars is slow, even though the new PZEV was OK. I also believe that the transmission has a propensity to downshift far too quickly in many situations where it is not warranted. And finally, I am concerned with the variability in the engine/transmission control systems, which shows Toyota does not have a good grip on this technology at this time. There are many owners who are reporting good operation and there is a growing list of owners reporting this problem. I certainly hope a solution is being worked on and that we can put this issue behind us soon.
PZEV......."a special intake and exhaust system is used on the California specification 2ZA-FE engine models in order to comply with PZEV (Partial Zero Emission Vehicle) regulations".
Decreases HP from 158->155HP, and Torque from 161->158 ft-lb.
You can tell which one you have, by looking at the exhaust manifold in the front of the engine, specifically the Air/Fuel Sensor. If the sensor is on the side of the downward pointing manifold, w/sensor out parallel to the ground, it is non-california. If it is up on the top (up by the head), pointing up vertically, it is the california PZEV.
Existing resolution attempts to replace internal transmission valve bodies and/or the whole transmission, have not resolved the concern for owners who have experienced this problem. ********************
kiawah,
Nice job summarizing what's going on. You might add to the attempts to fix the RPM spiking problem that the S2 solenoid has also been changed in attempts to correct the problem - unsuccessfully. See post # 450 in this thread
MY question is what do we do about this? HOw do we go about it?Is their enough of us to do it? So how do we all get together and basically [non-permissible content removed] at the same time to Toyota? Well I am not a professional like some of these other guys but I do no when something isnt right. SO WHAT DO WE DO AS A GROUP?
Adding what mesquite57 stated in post #912 rounds out the data nicely.
Rather than having TMSUSA, who seems to be a "sales/customer service" type responding to the "woes" forum, Toyota should allow a "technician/engineer type" to work with the posters here. I understand that an individual of that type would not be able to divulge all of the details surrounding a problem situation, but it would be extremely helpful to get a two-way dialogue going on some of these frustrating issues that could benefit all parties involved. There are some very intelligent and talented people on these forums. This is what the internet offers and it will happen sooner or later. Will Toyota be at the cutting edge or back in the pack?
I agree. One would think that Toyota would want to jump all over these issues and get them resolved, it's in their best interest ultimately to do so. These problems are beyond the scope of the dealer to resolve, they appear to be fundamental design flaws.
They are only "woes", because they are lingering and haven't been resolved, in some cases appear to deny that they exist, and have an effect on large groups of people.
One of two scenarios play out over time. 1.) Toyota digs and investigates the problems, finds the root cause and fix it, owners are satisfied and tell others, product gets good reputation, sales increase, Toyota and Toyota investors are happy......or.... 2.) Problems are denied and ignored, owners become dis-satisfied and tell others, sales cap or decrease, Toyota and investors are un-happy, competitors are happy.
Personally I'm very happy to go out of my way in a pro-active mode and recommend products that I see are quality products which I've had a good experience with. At the same time, I'm not at all bashful about giving guidance to stay away from products that aren't living up to their reputation.
Getting confirmation from a Toyota Technical focal point that they understand the problems, and have begun to investigate.......would be a good first step. I'm sure any of the members here would love to have a Toyota rep to come ride in their car and experience the problem first hand.
Very interesting test results rollon1300. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I too would have thought that the ULEV would not exhibit the problem. This pretty much rules out the special intake & exhaust on the PZEV as being the cause.
An update on my car. I have not experienced any hesitation or excessive downshifting for the past 3 days. I'm starting to believe that this could be a software bug within the ECM. If it were a mechanical problem then I would expect there to be more consistency with the hesitation.
Hopefully the information that we provide here on this forum will help Toyota isolate the problem.
I agree with you. My car doesnt hesitate everyday but when the toyota rep drove it it hesitated bad i mean bad so i dont no how much worse it can get for them to notice. But you are right it doesnt do it all the time. Mine doesnt do it early morning for some reason. the hotter it is the more it does it.
I have a Cruise Control problem, affecting my 4 cylinder, Toyota Camry. Dealers have verified symptoms with other owners,(this was found out from on-line forms) but Toyota has not acknowledged this problem. The car appears to not have enough power/torque to be able to hold target speed in 5th gear with cruise control on thru interstate driving. With a typical gentle upgrades, the engine downshifts to 4th and at times dramatically to 3rd with high RPM's, up to 5300 RPM to maintain speed. Driving without the use of cruise control is smooth with few transmission downshifts.
I have contacted the dealer where I bought my Toyota Camry and they told me then have not heard of this problem. I also called the Toyota 800 number and they also have heard of this problem. They also told me not to believe what you read on the internet forums.
By reading several on-line forums, I have found out many Toyota owners are having the same problem. The other owners have the same cruise control problem and they have not been able to have the problem fixed.
So my problem is, I know my Toyota has a problem, but the dealer and Toyota tell my they are not aware of this problem. What should I do.
Is the next step to contact the NHSTA and get a recall?
i think since cruise control is considered "ancillary" or "accessory" (i consider it unnecessisary and of low value) automation, it's not likely a recall would come into play from the NHSTA unless the constant downshifting and upshifting resulted in compromised safety, possible loss of control or excessive wear of the transmission components.
i thought laser cruise was extremely gratuitous. imagine if they included laser cruise in this vehicle...
tmsusa is probably short for toyota motor sales USA, so this person is probably responsible for some aspect of north american sales.
in this case, the situation / root cause probably spans a number of engineering departments and it is unlikely toyota would offer up one of their engineers to correspond with owners that have the issue.
it would be seemingly a great gesture, but probably this person would not even be in a position to do more than help qualify system behavior. no engineer in that capacity would be able to advise owners. think of the legal ramifications of doing so.
i highly doubt for example - the person would be allowed to explain how an owner should drive their new vehicle; tmsusa asserts that's something toyota might do for one or more of you with the issue but you don't really believe they'd do that do you?
if i had a vehicle with a bad case of hesitation, i'd be putting down the $120 for an OBD-II data capture device, i'd hook it to a laptop, i'd collect the manufacturer specific data for the drive-train and accelerator / throttle, and i'd offer it up to other readers of the forum for inspection.
i think doing this may collectively get you further faster.
i don't think toyota would want anyone posting objective data of drive-train hesitation.
I JUST WANT TO KNOW ARE WE NUTS IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH US ARE WE MAKING ALL THIS STUFF UP. I THINK THAT WE ALL NEED TO DO SOMETHING AS A WHOLE. I DONT KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING AND WE NEED TO DO IT TOGETHER. I TRIED TO DO IT BY MYSELF AND BASIC I GUESS I AM NUTS FOR THINKING THAT TOYOTA COULD COME OUT WITH A CAR THAT BASICALLY NEEDS HELP.MY CAMRY HAS SOME GOOD THINGS ABOUT IT BUT I REALLY THINK IT IS GOING TO GET ME AND MY FAMILY INJURED.THE CRUISE DOES BOTHER ME BUT THE HESITATION REALLY WORRIES ME. I HAVE TWO KINDS OF HESITATION ONE IS THAT IT JUST BARELY DOES IT BUT U CAN TELL AND THE OTHER IS THAT IT JUST KINDA OF MOVES ALITTLE UNTIL YOU GET IT TO 2500 RPMS THEN IT TAKES OFF. I HAVE HALF FLOORED IT AND FULL THROTTLE IT AND IT WOULD ONLY BE DOING 20MPH. BUT SINCE ALL CAMRYS DO THIS IT IS OK. DOES EVERY CAMRY 4CYL DO THIS? AND IF THEY DO I AM WORRIED FOR ALL THE LITTLE KIDS THAT SIT IN THE BACK SEAT JUST LIKE MY BOY JUST WAITING TO GET CREAMED. SO WHAT CAN WE DO AS A GROUP?
777, I don't know anything about an OBD-II data capture device, but can easily visualize how it could be used to capture numerous data records collectively from the data buses. I can mentally picture a resultant huge data table, showing potentially hundreds of sensor values.
Is there some program, that is then used to review and interrupt the data that is captured? Wouldn't this be looking for a needle in a haystack, and require someone who knew what the data was 'supposed' to be, to see which data was out of spec?
My wife has a vw passat v6 with 17k on it .Twice the oil burned completely out of it .With no warning signs i.e. smoke or leaks. A friend owned the 4 cyl with turbo drove through some water in a thunderstorm .Water got into the engine via the turbo.VW could care less . Thank God that it's a lease . The chrome trim is fading .
here is a link i've provided in the past for a very reasonably priced interface to a laptop, usable to capture trouble codes for check engine light, reset the light, and capture data in real-time: http://www.obd-2.com/
you capture vehicle speed, engine rpm, gear indication (several data points associated with gearing), accelerator pedal position (several data points associated with this), throttle body position sensor (several data poimts associated with this also), solenoid actuation, brake status (fill in the blank), etc etc while you drive, accelerating from 0 speed, slowing from speed to zero, cruising, etc.
you pull the data into an Excel spreadsheet, and you plot it.
"Since my last post, Toyota contacted my dealer "AGAIN" and informed them that it was time to replace the transmission. The funny thing is....before the replaced valve body (which occurred on my last visit (fourth time in the shop)), my car only spiked between 3rd and 4th gears. Since the replacement, the car now spikes between 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and 5th and 6th. Great fix, huh??? Toyota didn't believe the service manager, so I actually had to bring the car back in, so the service manager could drive it (for the second time) and confirm that what he (the service manager) reported was true.
Anyway, the transmission has come in, we're now waiting on the transmission fluid to arrive, and then they'll replace it.
BTW, all of this took place right before I filed my Lemon Law papers, so that now has been put on hold. "
I went through basically the same thing and the replacement transmission DID NOT fix my RPM spike problem.
Toyota Corporate treated me like I was the scum of the earth and it was my local Toyota dealer who saved the day and gave me a 100% refund on my POS :lemon: 07 Camry towards another Toyota. So now I'm driving a Highlander Hybrid. This Highlander will be my last Toyota.
I hope that you have better luck than I did. I'm totally soured on Toyota as an automotive brand, even after owning several Toyota's previously. In my opinion their vehicles are no better than those made by any of the rest of the auto manufacturers and the perception of Toyota's supposedly better quality, better reliability, and better customer service are just not correct anymore.
It is obvious to me that the Toyota vehicles of today are not designed and manufactured as well as those of a few years ago, and their "customer service" is very much in need of an upgrade.
So my advice to anyone considering a Toyota is "Buyer Beware"
damon34 - Ok, I have only looked in the trunk of a 07 hybrid, but how do you get you clubs in there? The hybrid as a multilevel trunk, link a sunken living room and the clubs won't fit in that, and if you lay them across the top the only thing supporting the one end are the heads of the clubs that stick out (not a good idea). The hybrid also had this dumb preformed plastice storage box inserted there to further complicate matters.
I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about the Camry hybrid, but there is no assurance that the Camry we're discussing here has the same trunk capacity as the hybrid (depending on what space is consumed by the battery). Let me suggest that you ask that question in one of the discussions over in the Toyota Camry Hybrid group.
Comments
The most reliable information I have is that it is a software problem dealing with the new electric gas pedal.
can you provide any additional details on that particular point? it might help everyone who cares about the issue and is basically flying blind without hard data.
Listen, I agree with mesquite77's suggestions. Call our CEC and make sure you have a case opened. The number is 800-331-4331. Chances are there is absolutely nothing wrong with your Camry. I really don't know. But I've been driving your car lately and know that it is fairly easy to mistake "normal" operation of a sophisticated transmission with a feeling that something's wrong.
But perhaps something is wrong. Sounds like one of our folks says your car is running just as it should. We'll never know debating it here. If the car is fine, but you're still worried, I hope we can spend a little more time with you helping you understand how it operates. If there is a problem, we want to get it resolved. Toyota does care.
that was nice of them bastards
"Warning - if you buy this the car the transmission behaves differently than anything you have ever known."
wonder how many new camrys they would sell????????????
1. The transmission snap ring problem, affecting some early production 6 speed transmissions, which Toyota has acknowledged. Car looses 2 gears (3rd and 6th), and for practical purposes is non-driveable. The defect is a snap-ring installation problem, and has reportedly been corrected in the manufacturing process. Cars manufactured up thru May, may have this issue. There may still be inventory on dealers lot which have this problem. Fix is to replace the transmission.
2.) The transmission/engine spiking problem, affecting some 6 speed transmissions, which Toyota has acknowledged, but hasn't yet been able to find root cause of problem and fix. As car is accelerating and then shifts, the engine rpm speed spikes up 1-2K extra before dropping into the next gear. Existing resolution attempts to replace internal transmission valve bodies and/or the whole transmission, have not resolved the concern for owners who have experienced this problem.
3.) The Engine / Transmission hesitation problem, affecting some 4 and 6 cyl, which dealers have verified symptoms but Toyota has NOT acknowledged is happening, and no resolution. Car appears to not be able to figure out what gear it should be in, get into that gear, and then accelerate. Owners experiencing this problem are obviously concerned from a safety perspective, as well as driveability. No resolution.
4.) The Cruise Control problem, affecting some 4 cylinders, which dealers have verified symptoms but Toyota has NOT acknowledged is happening, and no resolution. Car appears to not have enough power/torque to be able to hold target speed in 5th gear thru interstate typical gentle upgrades, downshifting to 4th and at times dramatically to 3rd with high RPM's to maintain speed. Driving without the use of cruise control is smooth with few transmission downshifts. Owners experiencing this problem report driveability concerns. No resolution.
I think I've summarized all the broader based "woes" that have surfaced within the first 6 months. If I've overlooked something, or effected owners and/or Toyota's TMSUSA would like to chime in and add clarification ..... please do.
As a side note, my speedometer indicating 65mph is actually 63mph, previously cross checked with my portable GPS.
sounds like the 3K estimate is close enough to 2700 to suggest TC isn't locking up as you indicated.
I added a chart to my carspace (link upper left corner), which shows the suspected failure area for different transmission shift symptoms. There is a section for no up-shift 4->5, and one for no lockup.
I'd get your car back to the dealer, who I suspect with the proper diagnosis can resolve your problem.
The tests:
Test 1: CC set and maintaining 65mph on level road with acceleration from 65 to 69mph using 4 taps on CC lever.
Test 2: CC set and maintaining 65mph on level road transitioning to ½ mile of moderate upgrade.
Test 3: deceleration to 30mph, maintain for 5-10 seconds, attempt to acceleration to 45-50mph with moderate throttle action (not using cruise control.)
***Note: Test 1 & 2 - objective, test 3 - subjective. All vehicles at normal operating temp w/o AC operating. Each test performed on same area of roadway at 88-90 degrees. All vehicles US manufacture.
Tests 1 & 3 were performed at least three times on each vehicle while test two was performed only once on the new vehicles and twice on my vehicle due to my self-imposed restraint on putting less than 20 miles on the new vehicles.
My (PZEV) (2500 miles) Test 1 - performed 4 times, once vehicle accelerated the 4mph without coming out of lockup, two times vehicle came out of lockup to accelerate the 4mph, once vehicle came out of lockup and downshifted to 4th to accelerate the 4mph. Test 2 - Vehicle maintained 65mph before, during, and after upgrade without coming out of lockup or downshifting. Test 3 - performed 4 times, vehicle usually, but not always, seems to hesitate from 1-3 seconds with throttle application and then starts to accelerate, slowly at first, and then downshifts and then rapidly accelerates. (Sluggish throttle response)
New (PZEV) (10 miles) Test 1 - performed 3 times, each time vehicle accelerated the 4mph without coming out of lockup. Test 2 - Vehicle maintained 65mph before, during, and after upgrade without coming out of lockup or downshifting. Test 3 - performed 3 times, vehicle seems to hesitate about 1-2 seconds with throttle application and then responds, once downshifting - two times not, with smooth acceleration all three times. (Crisp throttle response)
New (ULEV) (15 miles) Test 1 - performed 3 times, each time vehicle accelerated the 4mph without coming out of lockup. Test 2 - Vehicle maintained 65mph before, during, and after upgrade without coming out of lockup or downshifting. Test 3 - performed 3 times, vehicle seems to hesitate about 1-3 seconds with throttle application and then responds, downshifting all three times, with initial slow acceleration changing to smooth acceleration. (Sluggish throttle response)
My comments: I was surprised at how crisp the throttle response was on the new test PZEV Camry and how sluggish it was on the ULEV. I would have expected the reverse as my PZEV model is horribly sluggish. The upgrade test was the only long hill in the local area within 10 miles of the dealer and was not a challenge, but it was the best I could do under the circumstances. I will admit that these tests are not exact, nor definitive, but I am satisfied that they show that my Camry has “the problem” to a greater degree than the other two cars, although they do exhibit it to varying degrees.
My conclusion: I believe that the throttle response on these cars is slow, even though the new PZEV was OK. I also believe that the transmission has a propensity to downshift far too quickly in many situations where it is not warranted. And finally, I am concerned with the variability in the engine/transmission control systems, which shows Toyota does not have a good grip on this technology at this time. There are many owners who are reporting good operation and there is a growing list of owners reporting this problem. I certainly hope a solution is being worked on and that we can put this issue behind us soon.
Decreases HP from 158->155HP, and Torque from 161->158 ft-lb.
You can tell which one you have, by looking at the exhaust manifold in the front of the engine, specifically the Air/Fuel Sensor. If the sensor is on the side of the downward pointing manifold, w/sensor out parallel to the ground, it is non-california. If it is up on the top (up by the head), pointing up vertically, it is the california PZEV.
********************
kiawah,
Nice job summarizing what's going on. You might add to the attempts to fix the RPM spiking problem that the S2 solenoid has also been changed in attempts to correct the problem - unsuccessfully. See post # 450 in this thread
Excellent post, excellent summary - thanks!
Adding what mesquite57 stated in post #912 rounds out the data nicely.
Rather than having TMSUSA, who seems to be a "sales/customer service" type responding to the "woes" forum, Toyota should allow a "technician/engineer type" to work with the posters here. I understand that an individual of that type would not be able to divulge all of the details surrounding a problem situation, but it would be extremely helpful to get a two-way dialogue going on some of these frustrating issues that could benefit all parties involved. There are some very intelligent and talented people on these forums. This is what the internet offers and it will happen sooner or later. Will Toyota be at the cutting edge or back in the pack?
They are only "woes", because they are lingering and haven't been resolved, in some cases appear to deny that they exist, and have an effect on large groups of people.
One of two scenarios play out over time.
1.) Toyota digs and investigates the problems, finds the root cause and fix it, owners are satisfied and tell others, product gets good reputation, sales increase, Toyota and Toyota investors are happy......or....
2.) Problems are denied and ignored, owners become dis-satisfied and tell others, sales cap or decrease, Toyota and investors are un-happy, competitors are happy.
Personally I'm very happy to go out of my way in a pro-active mode and recommend products that I see are quality products which I've had a good experience with. At the same time, I'm not at all bashful about giving guidance to stay away from products that aren't living up to their reputation.
Getting confirmation from a Toyota Technical focal point that they understand the problems, and have begun to investigate.......would be a good first step. I'm sure any of the members here would love to have a Toyota rep to come ride in their car and experience the problem first hand.
An update on my car. I have not experienced any hesitation or excessive downshifting for the past 3 days. I'm starting to believe that this could be a software bug within the ECM. If it were a mechanical problem then I would expect there to be more consistency with the hesitation.
Hopefully the information that we provide here on this forum will help Toyota isolate the problem.
Thanks again!
I have a Cruise Control problem, affecting my 4 cylinder, Toyota Camry. Dealers have verified symptoms with other owners,(this was found out from on-line forms) but Toyota has not acknowledged this problem. The car appears to not have enough power/torque to be able to hold target speed in 5th gear with cruise control on thru interstate driving. With a typical gentle upgrades, the engine downshifts to 4th and at times dramatically to 3rd with high RPM's, up to 5300 RPM to maintain speed. Driving without the use of cruise control is smooth with few transmission downshifts.
I have contacted the dealer where I bought my Toyota Camry and they told me then have not heard of this problem. I also called the Toyota 800 number and they also have heard of this problem. They also told me not to believe what you read on the internet forums.
By reading several on-line forums, I have found out many Toyota owners are having the same problem. The other owners have the same cruise control problem and they have not been able to have the problem fixed.
So my problem is, I know my Toyota has a problem, but the dealer and Toyota tell my they are not aware of this problem. What should I do.
Is the next step to contact the NHSTA and get a recall?
i thought laser cruise was extremely gratuitous. imagine if they included laser cruise in this vehicle...
please pass the Dramamine.
in this case, the situation / root cause probably spans a number of engineering departments and it is unlikely toyota would offer up one of their engineers to correspond with owners that have the issue.
it would be seemingly a great gesture, but probably this person would not even be in a position to do more than help qualify system behavior. no engineer in that capacity would be able to advise owners. think of the legal ramifications of doing so.
i highly doubt for example - the person would be allowed to explain how an owner should drive their new vehicle; tmsusa asserts that's something toyota might do for one or more of you with the issue but you don't really believe they'd do that do you?
if i had a vehicle with a bad case of hesitation, i'd be putting down the $120 for an OBD-II data capture device, i'd hook it to a laptop, i'd collect the manufacturer specific data for the drive-train and accelerator / throttle, and i'd offer it up to other readers of the forum for inspection.
i think doing this may collectively get you further faster.
i don't think toyota would want anyone posting objective data of drive-train hesitation.
think about it.
I don't know anything about an OBD-II data capture device, but can easily visualize how it could be used to capture numerous data records collectively from the data buses. I can mentally picture a resultant huge data table, showing potentially hundreds of sensor values.
Is there some program, that is then used to review and interrupt the data that is captured? Wouldn't this be looking for a needle in a haystack, and require someone who knew what the data was 'supposed' to be, to see which data was out of spec?
http://www.obd-2.com/
and specifically, here's the list of parameters which are manufacturer specific:
http://www.obd-2.com/toypida.htm
you capture vehicle speed, engine rpm, gear indication (several data points associated with gearing), accelerator pedal position (several data points associated with this), throttle body position sensor (several data poimts associated with this also), solenoid actuation, brake status (fill in the blank), etc etc while you drive, accelerating from 0 speed, slowing from speed to zero, cruising, etc.
you pull the data into an Excel spreadsheet, and you plot it.
Anyway, the transmission has come in, we're now waiting on the transmission fluid to arrive, and then they'll replace it.
BTW, all of this took place right before I filed my Lemon Law papers, so that now has been put on hold. "
I went through basically the same thing and the replacement transmission DID NOT fix my RPM spike problem.
Toyota Corporate treated me like I was the scum of the earth and it was my local Toyota dealer who saved the day and gave me a 100% refund on my POS :lemon: 07 Camry towards another Toyota. So now I'm driving a Highlander Hybrid. This Highlander will be my last Toyota.
I hope that you have better luck than I did. I'm totally soured on Toyota as an automotive brand, even after owning several Toyota's previously. In my opinion their vehicles are no better than those made by any of the rest of the auto manufacturers and the perception of Toyota's supposedly better quality, better reliability, and better customer service are just not correct anymore.
It is obvious to me that the Toyota vehicles of today are not designed and manufactured as well as those of a few years ago, and their "customer service" is very much in need of an upgrade.
So my advice to anyone considering a Toyota is "Buyer Beware"
Yep - not to mention much more likely to be taken seriously, too...
The hybrid as a multilevel trunk, link a sunken living room and the clubs won't fit in that, and if you lay them across the top the only thing supporting the one end are the heads of the clubs that stick out (not a good idea). The hybrid also had this dumb preformed plastice storage box inserted there to further complicate matters.