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Will Mercury soon be joining Plymouth and Oldsmobile?



  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    They butchered Pontiac long ago...the Aussies had to come in for life support but I'll wager it's over for Pontiac. G8 becomes a top-line Chevy.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    Saturn is history and so is Merc. Let's see how long into the summer this decision takes. I'd say August. Looking at credit markets and gas price alone, these divisions are goners!

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Excuse me, but Pontiac sales are way up and it has nothing to do with the G8.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    That's right but Pontiac is still on the block and G cars would turn into Chevys.

  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    GM needs a midrange division for someone who wants something that looks and is trimmed fancier than a Chevy without paying the higher premium for a Cadillac.

    How do you think GM ended up with 8 divisions? They tried to create a special brand for each consumer group and to compete with other brands. What is actually happening is the GM brands are competing against one another. Saturn can't gain traction because of lack of infrastructure and duplication of products. (i.e., It's easier for someone to buy a Chevy Malibu than a Saturn Aura since there are more Chevy dealers then Saturn dealerships). At the same time, i think they are doing the right thing with Saturn and can simply move those products to Pontiac where they would have more exposure. Change the names to match the Pontiac nomenclature but keep the same idea and turn Pontiac into what Saturn was intended to do.

    It's fun playing CEO from the sidelines! :)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Change the names to match the Pontiac nomenclature but keep the same idea and turn Pontiac into what Saturn was intended to do.

    Actually, GM morphed Saturn into something it was not intended to do.

    Original plan was for Saturn to compete with Civic and Corolla.

    Being mindful of GMC/Buick/Pontiac dealerships, GM will probably keep GMC and Pontiac and cut Buick. GMC still a viable brand name and is needed for those who want to upscale from Chevrolet to Professional Grade.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    Why ruin GMC/Buick/Pontiac? If you eliminate Pontiac, you leave GMC/Buick with no small cars and an average buyer age of 70. Keep GMC/Buick/Pontiac and simply replace the current Pontiac lineup as their product changeovers are due. Also Saturn needs more exposure for it to be successful. Adding more dealerships is not an option. You already have a plan in place to share platforms globally, which saves R&D money. No reason to bag that good idea. heck GM did a similar thing after they eliminated Oldsmobile. The Lucerne and Lacrosse were simply the next version of the Intrigue and Aurora.

    Saturn lost its way over a decade ago. Now it's just another GM brand. have they sold over 200k units recently? I know they sold that many S-series back in the early 90s (per year).
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    The Lucerne and Lacrosse were simply the next version of the Intrigue and Aurora. Not so. The Lucerne and LaCrosse are merely updated versions of the LeSabre/Park Avenue and the Century/Regal. Even though they were platform mates with the Buicks, the Aurora and Intrigue just went away.

    I still say GMC's days are numbered. They do not offer a single model that is not a clone of a Chevy, and all their vehicles get mediocre mpg. Given the decline in pickup sales, it makes no sense for GM to continue a badge-engineered division of gas hogs.

    Yes, Saturn could be absorbed by Pontiac. Or go away for all its doing for GM's bottom line. Buick could still be king in China (they'd do better here if the Chinese models were sold here).
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,622
    ...or GM coul change their name to GMW to protect the terrible management!

    Ford could become Fordsan and Chrysler could become Hyundsler. Either way, there are mergers coming in the long run.

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, there will be mergers. And brand deaths. Remember, the Brits used to have a viable auto industry too. Third world manufacturers will be the next big thing, and one day in the future Toyota will topple too.
  • ppborcebppborceb Wallingford,CTPosts: 61
    Everyone knows that Mercury is nothing but a copycat Ford for the Geezers with money that wouldn't be caught dead in a Ford. The Grand Marquis is nothing more than a Crown Victoria, but priced higher.
    Dump the Mercury and go back to the original company that Henry put America on wheels!
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    ...has been around since 1939 and has at times been a clear step up from a Ford.
    The first Mercuries were almost indistinguishable from a Ford. You'd think every panel from a Mercury would interchange with a Ford, but it doesn't. The 1946-48 Mercuries were clearly Fords with extremely busy front-end styling.

    I'd say from 1949 through 1960, Mercury clearly was a step-up from a Ford. They cheapened the brand from 1961-64 and went back to being a super-deluxe Ford. It went back upscale again in 1965 in the "Lincoln Tradition" and stayed there through 1978. Remember those awesome Park Lanes and Marquises Jack Lord drove on Hawaii Five-O? It went back to being a super-deluxe Ford in 1979 and stayed there since.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    "Super deluxe" is a stretch. A Mercury is a Ford with a slightly different trim package. As you pointed out, it wasn't always that way.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Remember those awesome Park Lanes and Marquises Jack Lord drove on Hawaii Five-O?

    Yes. Awesome, huge and grotesque. Would rather remember Magnum PI's ride.

    Perhaps you got some lyrics for Five-O theme? What did Lord say to Dano at end of case?

    As said before, the only memorable car from Mercury was 49-50 model, which can still be seen in many custom/hot rod shows. Still looks good chopped and channeled.

    With all of Ford's problems in recent years, cannot understand why they still prop up the Mercury brand.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    There were many memorable Mercurys, though not all successful in sales. The 49-51 didn't share a thing with was a Lincoln body to start. The Turnpike Cruiser was the wrong car at the wrong time, but definitely memorable. The original Cougar was one of the prettiest cars of the 1960s. Many of the Park Lanes were more tasteful than the generally huge and grotesque competition. The German built Mercury Capri was a winner. The 1986 Sable was well distinguished from the Taurus. The 1999-2002 Cougar was well-styled and very competitive on launch (it outsold the Mitsubishi perennial champ), but the 2 door coupe market is a tough one, and Ford didn't commit to the fast-paced change it requires. The Cyclones and Marauders (not the more recent fiasco) were always contenders and beautifully styled as well. The 68 through 72 (prior to the 5 mph battering ram bumpers)Montegos were beautiful as well. But granted, that's not a lot in the entire marque's history. One thing that often used to distinquish a Mercury from a Ford was the unique rooflines on some models. With the coming of the Contour/Mystique twins and the Crown Vic adopting the Grand Marquis roofline, that long tradition was seemingly abandoned for good. I lost interest in Mercury models after that. Sales show that most people did. Could you imagine Mercury selling 500,000 cars today with their pathetic badge engineered lineup? I say get rid of the embarrassment.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Book 'em, Dano!
  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Posts: 228
    according to news from Ford Motor Co. today.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    And I for one am very happy to hear I was wrong about this. Always liked Mercurys..up until the last few years.
  • bruce6bruce6 Posts: 29
    Let us hope the decision to keep Mercury comes with an intent to make it's products at least somewhat unique. Platform-sharing is fine. Identical cars with different grilles and taillights is not.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    According to Kuzak:

    "Mercury and Lincoln will complement each other. Lincoln will start with midsized sedans and move up from there...Mercury brings a younger, more female customer than the Ford brand.We're focusing (Mercury) very much on small, fuel-efficient products."

    Ford hopes that Mercury will continue to attract these younger premium car buyers who will then move up to Lincolns as they get older and their families get larger.

    Going forward, he said, Mercury will continue to offer improved versions of its Mariner crossover, Milan mid-sized sedan and a new as yet unnamed compact. That car will go into production in 2010 and will share a common platform with the new Ford Focus that will also enter production that year. In addition, Mercury will offer hybrid versions of the Mariner and -- starting at the end of this year -- the Milan.

    Kuzak made no mention of the full-sized Mercury Sable, which no longer appears to be part of the brands future lineup. Instead, he said, Lincoln will pick up where Mercury leaves off, giving Lincoln-Mercury dealers a full product lineup.
  • I have heard basically the same thing. Here on Inside Line, they said that Mercury will be adding a new small car. I think that is a great idea. With the way gas prices are, people from all walks of life are looking at smaller cars. Not everyone is going to want bare-bones econoboxes so a premium small car is a good thing. I wish GM would get that through their heads and bring over the small Buicks that are selling very well in China. Anyway, for Mercury to pull this off, they will need to make a vehicle that is unique from a Ford. What they don't need is a Tracer that is very much the same as a Focus with a different grille and tail lights.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Yeah, and what they dont need is to eliminate 50% of their market right out of the box by aiming Mercury at females. Just how stupid is that?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Pretty stupid. That focus the last few years has done nothing but cost them sales.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Yeah, and what they dont need is to eliminate 50% of their market right out of the box by aiming Mercury at females. Just how stupid is that?

    They used to run the commercial of a woman driving her male office colleague to a business meeting and meeting their female boss.

    They also need some commercials showing a tall guy late 20's/30's with about 5-day beard stubble, in jeans and getting into Mercury with his actress-like female companion and he driving to "in" place.
  • wtd44wtd44 Posts: 1,211
    Having a local Mercury dealer keeps me happy with Ford products. I can use the Mercury place for any and all warranty work and other repairs and service I may not want to do myself. Otherwise, I'd have to use the local Ford dealer, and that is very unappealing to me. The broader point is that Lincoln Mercury dealers provide the benefits of "competition" with Ford dealers, thus favoring the customer.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Excellent summary on the history of Mercury's brand differentiation. I agree with everything you said.

    I imagine that Ford is quietly studying whether to invest more in Mercury to reinvigorate it, or to close the brand. So, in the future, you'll either see more aspirational and youthful Mercurys, in the spirit of the '49-mid '50s, and the Cougar, or no Mercurys. I don't know which it will be. Does Ford really need a middle brand? Arguably, it doesn't, if Ford models top out at entry luxury, and Lincoln begins there. On the other hand, it wouldn't be difficult to make a case for a middle brand, so long as it's differentiated from Ford and Lincoln. I have confidence that Alan Mulally will make the right call on Mercury. He's obviously acting deliberately, rather than hastily.

    I think there's room for expansion of the Mustang line, plus a market for a RWD Lincoln 3-Series competitor, once Ford's financial condition improves.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,967
    One of the keys for Mercury is to move Lincoln further up market. If it stays "near luxury" it clouds the case for having Mercury. This is what GM is trying to do with Buick and Cadillac.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    I agree with you, especially if Ford keeps Mercury. Even if it does, though, Lincoln could continue to offer its MKZ, since Mercedes, BMW and Lexus offer their respective near-luxury C-Class, 3-Series and ES350. To your point, Lincoln could then add one or more upscale models to its lineup.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 18,883
    I've just returned from the winter car auctions in Scottsdale. General Motors, Ford and Lincoln were all present, exhibiting their current wares and offering test rides. Conspicuous by their absence were Chrysler Corporation and Mercury Division.
    I did not see a single new Mercury, not even the Milan which sells pretty well in Arid-zona.

    As I was looking at the new Taurus it occurred to me that there doesn't seem to be a
    new Sable version even though it's big enough to serve as a replacement for the Grand Marquis.

    It looks like Ford Motor Co. is going to let Merc die for lack of new product.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    I started this thing like over 3 years ago... :shades:
This discussion has been closed.