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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?
I think Ford trucks are pretty decent, but they're definitely dated compared to the competition (Dodge is dated too). Payload is high because it is essentially a "HD" version, but no way can it pull 11K safely. I test drove the GMC, Toyota, Dodge, Ford, and Nissan, and there was no question that the most lethargic of all of the trucks was the F150. Every other vehicle felt considerably stronger. So, while it may "technically" be able to pull that amount, there is no way you're going to be confident doing it or enjoy driving with that kind of load. At that point you should be looking at a 3/4 or 1 ton anyway... especially if you're doing that on a regular basis. Still, Ford sells a lot, but sales for their trucks are continually dropping. The housing market is taking its toll and gas prices aren't helping. By 2009, there will be a pickup (pardon the pun) in sales, but if gas and housing construction continue to be barriers, it won't last long, and the bigger issue is whether they'll be able to come out with the same interior quality while matching it up with a much stronger powertrain at a competitive price... time will tell I guess...
Ok I think there is no question that GMC 6.0L, Dodge Hemi, and Toyota with the 5.7L offer more HP than the Ford 5.4 L.
However, the Ford 5.4 is stronger then the base engins in these trucks and becaues if its much lower cost it IS the standard engine in everything but a work truck.
Also, the Toyota 4.7 still has a timing belt? whats up with that? Anyone know the cost to replace that at 60k?
Who knows, peoeple have been asking that same question for years now. But at the end of every year when all the smoke clears Ford always comes out on top.
The only one really with a chance to over take them ever is Chevrolet, Dodge never will and and there are not enough Metrosexual men in America to sell enough Toyota's for them to ever get close. It takes more then fancy mis-leading commercials to be on top in the truck market.
You don't need to compare the GMC 6.0L to the Ford's 5.4L when GMC's 5.3L has more HP than Ford's 5.4L!!!!!
Also, the 5.4L is not the standard engine in everything but a work truck. You have to move up to a Lariat or FX4 before getting a standard 5.4L. There is an exception such as the XL extended cab long bed comes with the 5.4 but the XL extended cab short bed does not.
The GMC 5.3L is rated at 315hp and 338 lbft. The Ford 5.4L is rated at 300 hp but has 365 lbft of torque. Most people who buy trucks agree that torque is more important than hp.
Also, the F-150 XLT with 5.4 for $895 and Trailer Tow package for $350 has a Tow and Go Discount at the bottom of the sticker of $1,000. This to me means that the 5.4L is free and it also means all dealers order their all XLTs with 5.4L engines which IMHO makes it practically standard.
I'm sure that most of you already know about the problems with the blown out spark plugs but thought I'd put my two cents in. Driving thru town in my '04 F150 when a loud pop noise occurred only to find out that #3 plug and coil had completely blown out of the cylinder head. The head's threads are stripped and now I am forced to have the head retapped and a new assembly installed for around $900 (although Ford wants you to buy a new cylinder head for $3500). Come to find out this is a really big problem (see consumeraffairs.com) with all the modular engines and Ford has known about it for several years and refuses to do anything about it - although they have issued a technical bulletin and have also been sued for this problem and lost. Ford needs to step up on this one or many owners will be switching to a Toyota or another more reliable vehicle in the future.
Various 1997-2007 vehicles with a 5.4L 2V, or 6.8L 2V engine with stripped or missing spark plug port threads in modular engine aluminum heads. Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum inserts and tool kit.
This repair is for out of warranty repairs. For warranty work you will get the new heads.
Silverado on the F-Series' heels. The fall push will be critical for Ford, and they have two strikes against them: - the F150 is a lame duck - people are skittish about the new Powerstroke in the Super Duty trucks
Tundra and Sierra are in a serious dogfight for 4th place.
The GMC 5.3L is rated at 315hp and 338 lbft. The Ford 5.4L is rated at 300 hp but has 365 lbft of torque. Most people who buy trucks agree that torque is more important than hp.
Also, the F-150 XLT with 5.4 for $895 and Trailer Tow package for $350 has a Tow and Go Discount at the bottom of the sticker of $1,000. This to me means that the 5.4L is free and it also means all dealers order their all XLTs with 5.4L engines which IMHO makes it practically standard.
In your previous post, you were talking about "horsepower." When I pointed out the Chevy 5.3 L had more horses than the 5.4 L, you start talking about torque and how much more important it is. That's all well and good but you weren't talking about torque originally.
Also, you stated all dealers order the XLT trucks with the 5.4 L because it's "free." I don't know about the discount you are talking about but I do know not all XLT Fords have the 5.4.
GM allows Ford to have the number 1 slot. The Chevy and GMC trucks are essentially the same vehicle and combined sales have been greater than Ford for years.
was a slouch empty. I can just imagine what it would be like to drive it with the advertised 3050 lbs. of payload. Well I guess they can advertise what ever they want no one said they had to pull it with any gusto.
If that is why you are buying a truck, Ford is not building a truck for you.
The F-150 uses the most expensive truck frame on the market today and it is by far the strongest. It is Hydroformed under engine and cab and fully boxed from front to rear.
The Tundra frame is welded where it is boxed and c-channel the rest of the way.
The F-150 uses fully boxed cross beams that pass through the frame rail and are welded on each side.
The Tundra uses stamped cross beams that are riveted.
The fact is that the F-150 is much more likely to be the truck that rides like new at 200,000 miles.
Also the 4.7 V8 on Tundra STILL uses a timing belt.
on your last post you mentioned the tundra uses a timing belt as opposed to timing chain. do you happen to know if the nissan titan uses a chain or belt. am deciding between the 5.3 silverado and the titan to purchase. i assume the chevy uses chain?
Chevy motors use a different design, they are pushrod activated valves and not DOHC and therefore they use a timing CHAIN as opposed to a belt. Under normal circumstances the chain on Chevy V-8s does not need to be replaced.
It is funny to look at those numbers yet see all over edmunds (this thread included) that Ford is losing leadership and the Tundra is going to blah blah blah, but as you can see like every year we are ahead of Chevrolet and beating the wannabe truck makers like a drum.
Hell those numbers don't even include medium and heavy sales which we are stomping a mud hole in the competitors butt there also.
Yes but obviously you don't, that is why I put the fact that the numbers do not include medium and heady. HD's are not 40% of our sales. A HD is for your info the size of a Peterbuilt truck. YTD we have sold 30,000 medium and heavy trucks. Which are not included in those numbers What you are talking about is Super Duty trucks. If you are going to continuously bash a company at least do a little research and quit shooting from the hip and being wrong.
F150 Light Duty Truck
F250-550 Super Duty Truck
F650-750 Medium Duty Truck
Heavy Duty, the Chassis you see Fire Engines built on. Don't know if we continue the F nomenclature up that high or not
Super Duty is HD. Diesels available. Special frames. There is Light-duty, and there is HD, or Super Duty. Ford never uses the term "Medium Duty", and you damn sure won't see that on their trucks!
Ford Sales NA doesn't brake it down that way, so neither will I.
I don't know where you got that mess from, but it is a messterpiece! :confuse:
I've sold Ford's for 3 years, and I know the difference.
Sorry Doc... Joel is generally correct. What is commonly referred to as a "heavy duty pickup" is really a light-medium in terms of USDOT weight classes. And Ford does indeed refer to the F650-750 as medium-duty trucks. True heavy duty trucks are upper class 7 and class 8 - GVWR of over 30,000 pounds.
That "mess" is from the federal weight class chart:
Class 1 subclasses: Class A--Not greater than 1360 kg. (3,000 lbs.) Class B--Greater than 1360 kg. to 1814 kg. (3,001-4,000 lbs.) Class C--Greater than 1814 kg. to 2268 kg. (4,001-5,000 lbs.) Class D--Greater than 2268 kg. to 2722 kg. (5,001-6,000 lbs.) Class 2 subclasses: Class E--Greater than 2722 kg. to 3175 kg. (6,001-7,000 lbs.) Class F--Greater than 3175 kg. to 3629 kg. (7,001-8,000 lbs.) Class G--Greater than 3629 kg. to 4082 kg. (8,001-9,000 lbs.) Class H--Greater than 4082 kg. to 4536 kg. (9,001-10,000 lbs.) Class 3--Greater than 4536 kg. to 6350 kg. (10,001-14,000 lbs.) Class 4--Greater than 6350 kg. to 7257 kg. (14,001-16,000 lbs.) Class 5--Greater than 7257 kg. to 8845 kg. (16,001-19,500 lbs.) Class 6--Greater than 8845 kg. to 11793 kg. (19,501-26,000 lbs.) Class 7--Greater than 11793 kg. to 14968 kg.(26,001-33,000 lbs.) Class 8--Greater than 14968 kg. (33,001 lbs. and over)
I'm sure there are a number of viable theories about the dynamics of the latest LD pick-up sales figures. The Tundra increase, while a large number, is based on an already low sales rate compared to the Chevrolet, Dodge, and Ford versions and may only mean that Toyota loyalists are responding to a much more attractive alternative, something they didn't have before the launch of the new Tundra.
Over the years I have rarely seen a used Tundra at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford dealership, not that that's proof of anything. But at my last visit to my Toyota dealer I saw three previous generation Tundras on their lot. I did see one 2006 Silverado, and two Titans. But no RAMs or F-150s.
I have to say that around here the Chevy dealers seem to have plenty of stock, while Ford dealers seem to be low on trucks.
The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.
Which is wrong. This is a Heavy Duty truck
Dump Trucks do not account for 40% of our truck sales.
So I say again, please refrain from speaking of that which you are clueless on. Belive it or not there are allot of people who belive everything they read on this site.
There are many subjects I am clueless on to, but Ford is not one of them.
Who was talking about dump trucks? Or fleet? Or chassis cabs?
I'm talking about the Super Duty HDs. The F-250/350/450. That's a retail, lucrative profit center for Ford. And is about 40% of F-series retail sales. If you contend 250-450 are not HD, that's different.
I guess Chevy's 2500/3500 aren't HDs either, regardless of what it says on the billboards. :confuse:
I could give a rats [non-permissible content removed] what Chevy is doing. I am just trying to point out that HD trucks are not 40% of Ford truck sales.
BTW where did you pull this 40% number from any how? I have the numbers right here in front of me and Super Duty sales (what you call HD sales for some reason) are not 40%.
Also in another post you said that you did not know we were talking about fleet sales. Those posted #'s include fleet sales, not sure if they include Major Fleet with a FIN# or not but know for a fact they include all fleet sales.
The US government assigns two classifications to trucks: "pick-ups" and "trucks."
Pick-ups have two subclassifications: *pick-up = Light Duty *pick-up = Medium duty
Trucks have four subclassifications: *SUV-Light Duty *Truck light duty = 8500 lbs. or less *Truck Medium Duty = 8501 to 26,000 lbs. *Truck Heavy Duty = 26,000 lbs. or more.
In addition, the United States Department of Transportation has defined by weight capacity:
.........min GVWR...Max GVWR Class 1..................6,000....Light Duty Class 2...6,001.....10,000....Light Duty Class 3..10,001.....14,000....Light Duty Class 4..14,001.....16,000....Medium Duty Class 5..16,001.....19,500....Medium Duty Class 6..19,501.....26,000....Medium Duty Class 7..26,001.....33,000....Heavy Duty Class 8..33,001...............Heavy Duty
Pick-up trucks are typically found in class 1, 2, and sometimes 3.
Medium trucks are class 4, 5, and 6.
Heavy trucks are class 7 and 8.
I just looked through the various brochures and documentation that Dodge, Ford, and GM gave us in 2003 (for 2004 models) when my company was making a fleet buy. Chevy and Dodge brochures use almost the same language to describe their pick-ups, "...under class 3." Ford just lumps the SuperDuty in with the F-series and says, ...Super Duty models can be equiped to class 3 service."
Although the word "heavy duty" appears in the Ford literature to describe certain aspects of the F-series and Superduty line (..heavy duty one ton..), nowhere in the literature I have has Ford refered to a Super Duty as a "heavy duty truck."
I think we can all agree that it is intuitively clear that F250/350 sales do not equal 40% of combined F150/250/350 sales with or without DrFill's concurrence.
But, has anyone noticed that the pricing is very close between an F150 and an F250? Same thing between a Silverado 1500 and a Silverado 2500 HD. At a quick glance there is about a $1000 difference in MSRP between comparably (e.g., trim levels, not engines/frames) equipped vehicles. This makes the F250/350 or 2500HD with the superior drive train and chassis a much better deal. Take the Silverado. For a thou extra over a 1500 you get 2000 more Gross Combined Weight, a 6.0 with a 6 speed auto, and real (i.e, disc) rear brakes and heavy duty frame.
DR Fill, OK I accept this. I was wrong. I generalized from what I see in New England where there are far more soccer moms and dads buying F150s than there are wanna be Class 8 Truckers buying the F250 to drive to high school or to the office park and very, very few retirees, race car teams, or horse owners pulling fifth wheel trailers. I guess that when you include the red states the F250/350/450 sales take off.
I do think that Ford markets the Super Duty very well. On the new '08s the tail gate even has the words SuperDuty stamped-in in big letters visible from a 100 yards away. That and other badging is way too gauche for the F150 crowd but very appropriate for the F250/350 buyer. I don't think GM does any where near as good a job at marketing the 2500HD. As a result most of them are sold as pure vocational vehicles whereas lots of the Super Dutys I see are more aspirational than vocational, seeing more duty at Home Depot than anything else.
I was not disputing that fact. You said Heavy Duty sales and the link you gave is talking about Super Duty sales. In the land of Ford those are two totaly different products. Thank you for clearing the whole thing up.
DrFill and others, your a pretty smart bunch so here is a question for you. Which F150 is a better deal?
1) '07 ex-Budget Rental with 14K miles in dark green. This 4x4 Supercab is an XLT with no other options (no trailer package, nothing)except a bed liner. But it is an XLT with the all important power windows and locks. The local Ford store is asking 21.8K
2) A new '07 4X4 Supercab , XLT package, with some nice options to include cloth captains chairs ($300), tinted windows, positraction type rear end ($300), MP3 sterio, 5.4 engine, and trailer towing package. The bottom line of invoice less the $4500 Ford rebate is 26K.
Gentlemen, I think one could negotiate the used one down. I don't think that the new unit is negotiable into the holdback area.
That's an outstanding deal on an outstanding new truck. Would not recommend the rental. Jump on it if you like it. I might've bought the F-150, except the seats felt like a picnic bench to my butt. Otherwise Ford makes a great truck. The market doesn't lie, despite what some people will try to "sell" you, if you get my meaning. They will try to convince you that 2 million buyers are all fools (the combined annual sales of Ford, GM, Dodge pickups) and the truck that actually sells less than 200K is actually much better. If the F-150 wasn't a great truck they wouldn't sell a zillion every year. Go with your gut.
How does this deal sound?A new 07, F150 XLT, Reg Cab which has the extra room behind the front seats and 2 doors as well. It's a 4x4, 8 cyl and the starting price was 22,695. What do you think? I haven't seen the truck yet as it's in another state. I like the size of the regular cab and the 6'5" bed. Any opinions are welcomed and appreciated.
Comments
Still, Ford sells a lot, but sales for their trucks are continually dropping. The housing market is taking its toll and gas prices aren't helping. By 2009, there will be a pickup (pardon the pun) in sales, but if gas and housing construction continue to be barriers, it won't last long, and the bigger issue is whether they'll be able to come out with the same interior quality while matching it up with a much stronger powertrain at a competitive price... time will tell I guess...
However, the Ford 5.4 is stronger then the base engins in these trucks and becaues if its much lower cost it IS the standard engine in everything but a work truck.
Also, the Toyota 4.7 still has a timing belt? whats up with that? Anyone know the cost to replace that at 60k?
The only one really with a chance to over take them ever is Chevrolet, Dodge never will and and there are not enough Metrosexual men in America to sell enough Toyota's for them to ever get close. It takes more then fancy mis-leading commercials to be on top in the truck market.
Also, the 5.4L is not the standard engine in everything but a work truck. You have to move up to a Lariat or FX4 before getting a standard 5.4L. There is an exception such as the XL extended cab long bed comes with the 5.4 but the XL extended cab short bed does not.
Also, the F-150 XLT with 5.4 for $895 and Trailer Tow package for $350 has a Tow and Go Discount at the bottom of the sticker of $1,000. This to me means that the 5.4L is free and it also means all dealers order their all XLTs with 5.4L engines which IMHO makes it practically standard.
Mark.
Various 1997-2007 vehicles with a 5.4L 2V, or 6.8L 2V engine with stripped or missing spark plug port threads in modular engine aluminum heads. Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum inserts and tool kit.
This repair is for out of warranty repairs. For warranty work you will get the new heads.
Mark.
---------------------------------------------------------
F-Series...69,220 / 76,804 / -9.9 / 481,146 / 545,963 / -11.9
Silverado..67,486 / 51,185 / 31.8 / 425,379 / 434,937 / -2.2
Ram........32,309 / 34,177 / -5.0 / 246,878 / 250,144 / -1.0
Sierra.....23,574 / 17,564 / 34.2 / 138,759 / 142,129 / -2.4
Tundra.....18,919 / 11,173 / 69.3 / 124,909 / 78,916 / 57.5
Titan.......6,985 / 5,650 / 23.6 / 45,766 / 50,178 / -9.2
Mark LT.......768 / 1,007 / -23.7 / 5,858 / 8,519 / -31.2
Silverado on the F-Series' heels. The fall push will be critical for Ford, and they have two strikes against them:
- the F150 is a lame duck
- people are skittish about the new Powerstroke in the Super Duty trucks
Tundra and Sierra are in a serious dogfight for 4th place.
kcram - Pickups Host
Mark.
Also, the F-150 XLT with 5.4 for $895 and Trailer Tow package for $350 has a Tow and Go Discount at the bottom of the sticker of $1,000. This to me means that the 5.4L is free and it also means all dealers order their all XLTs with 5.4L engines which IMHO makes it practically standard.
In your previous post, you were talking about "horsepower." When I pointed out the Chevy 5.3 L had more horses than the 5.4 L, you start talking about torque and how much more important it is. That's all well and good but you weren't talking about torque originally.
Also, you stated all dealers order the XLT trucks with the 5.4 L because it's "free." I don't know about the discount you are talking about but I do know not all XLT Fords have the 5.4.
You'll figure it out! Buyer beware. :P
DrFill
Bob
The F-150 uses the most expensive truck frame on the market today and it is by far the strongest. It is Hydroformed under engine and cab and fully boxed from front to rear.
The Tundra frame is welded where it is boxed and c-channel the rest of the way.
The F-150 uses fully boxed cross beams that pass through the frame rail and are welded on each side.
The Tundra uses stamped cross beams that are riveted.
The fact is that the F-150 is much more likely to be the truck that rides like new at 200,000 miles.
Also the 4.7 V8 on Tundra STILL uses a timing belt.
Mark.
1offroader
Sep 07 / Sep 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
------------------------------------------------------------
F-Series / 56,065 / 70,822 / -20.8 / 537,211 / 616,785 / -12.9
Silverado / 52,480 / 51,964 / 5.0 / 477,859 / 486,901 / -1.9
Ram / 30,100 / 25,081 / 20.0 / 276,978 / 275,225 / 1.0
Sierra / 18,445 / 17,604 / 9.0 / 157,204 / 159,733 / -1.6
Tundra / 19,571 / 12,609 / 61.4 / 144,480 / 91,525 / 57.9
Titan / 5,193 / 6,073 / -11.1 / 50,959 / 56,251 / -9.4
Mark LT / 795 / 1,203 / -33.9 / 6,653 / 9,722 / -31.6
Don't go overboard - debate away!
kcram - Pickups Host
Hell those numbers don't even include medium and heavy sales which we are stomping a mud hole in the competitors butt there also.
You do know the difference, right? :sick:
The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.
Same for the Silverado.
DrFill
Yes but obviously you don't, that is why I put the fact that the numbers do not include medium and heady. HD's are not 40% of our sales. A HD is for your info the size of a Peterbuilt truck. YTD we have sold 30,000 medium and heavy trucks. Which are not included in those numbers What you are talking about is Super Duty trucks. If you are going to continuously bash a company at least do a little research and quit shooting from the hip and being wrong.
F150 Light Duty Truck
F250-550 Super Duty Truck
F650-750 Medium Duty Truck
Heavy Duty, the Chassis you see Fire Engines built on. Don't know if we continue the F nomenclature up that high or not
There is Light-duty, and there is HD, or Super Duty. Ford never uses the term "Medium Duty", and you damn sure won't see that on their trucks!
Ford Sales NA doesn't brake it down that way, so neither will I.
I don't know where you got that mess from, but it is a messterpiece! :confuse:
I've sold Ford's for 3 years, and I know the difference.
Apparently your hips are shot! :sick:
DrFill
That "mess" is from the federal weight class chart:
Class 1 subclasses:
Class A--Not greater than 1360 kg. (3,000 lbs.)
Class B--Greater than 1360 kg. to 1814 kg. (3,001-4,000 lbs.)
Class C--Greater than 1814 kg. to 2268 kg. (4,001-5,000 lbs.)
Class D--Greater than 2268 kg. to 2722 kg. (5,001-6,000 lbs.)
Class 2 subclasses:
Class E--Greater than 2722 kg. to 3175 kg. (6,001-7,000 lbs.)
Class F--Greater than 3175 kg. to 3629 kg. (7,001-8,000 lbs.)
Class G--Greater than 3629 kg. to 4082 kg. (8,001-9,000 lbs.)
Class H--Greater than 4082 kg. to 4536 kg. (9,001-10,000 lbs.)
Class 3--Greater than 4536 kg. to 6350 kg. (10,001-14,000 lbs.)
Class 4--Greater than 6350 kg. to 7257 kg. (14,001-16,000 lbs.)
Class 5--Greater than 7257 kg. to 8845 kg. (16,001-19,500 lbs.)
Class 6--Greater than 8845 kg. to 11793 kg. (19,501-26,000 lbs.)
Class 7--Greater than 11793 kg. to 14968 kg.(26,001-33,000 lbs.)
Class 8--Greater than 14968 kg. (33,001 lbs. and over)
kcram - Pickups Host
GM uses HD on all trucks 3/4 ton and up (2500/3500).
And Ford uses Super Duty for all F-250 and up.
When you get to chassis frames, that's not even a retail sale at that point.
Are we talking fleet or retail? I thought we were talking retail business.
DrFill
Over the years I have rarely seen a used Tundra at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford dealership, not that that's proof of anything. But at my last visit to my Toyota dealer I saw three previous generation Tundras on their lot. I did see one 2006 Silverado, and two Titans. But no RAMs or F-150s.
I have to say that around here the Chevy dealers seem to have plenty of stock, while Ford dealers seem to be low on trucks.
Dusty
kcram - Pickups Host
The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.
Which is wrong. This is a Heavy Duty truck
Dump Trucks do not account for 40% of our truck sales.
So I say again, please refrain from speaking of that which you are clueless on. Belive it or not there are allot of people who belive everything they read on this site.
There are many subjects I am clueless on to, but Ford is not one of them.
I'm talking about the Super Duty HDs. The F-250/350/450. That's a retail, lucrative profit center for Ford. And is about 40% of F-series retail sales. If you contend 250-450 are not HD, that's different.
I guess Chevy's 2500/3500 aren't HDs either, regardless of what it says on the billboards. :confuse:
DrFill
BTW where did you pull this 40% number from any how? I have the numbers right here in front of me and Super Duty sales (what you call HD sales for some reason) are not 40%.
Also in another post you said that you did not know we were talking about fleet sales. Those posted #'s include fleet sales, not sure if they include Major Fleet with a FIN# or not but know for a fact they include all fleet sales.
Pick-ups have two subclassifications:
*pick-up = Light Duty
*pick-up = Medium duty
Trucks have four subclassifications:
*SUV-Light Duty
*Truck light duty = 8500 lbs. or less
*Truck Medium Duty = 8501 to 26,000 lbs.
*Truck Heavy Duty = 26,000 lbs. or more.
See http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/page/forms/codes886.pdf
In addition, the United States Department of Transportation has defined by weight capacity:
.........min GVWR...Max GVWR
Class 1..................6,000....Light Duty
Class 2...6,001.....10,000....Light Duty
Class 3..10,001.....14,000....Light Duty
Class 4..14,001.....16,000....Medium Duty
Class 5..16,001.....19,500....Medium Duty
Class 6..19,501.....26,000....Medium Duty
Class 7..26,001.....33,000....Heavy Duty
Class 8..33,001...............Heavy Duty
Pick-up trucks are typically found in class 1, 2, and sometimes 3.
Medium trucks are class 4, 5, and 6.
Heavy trucks are class 7 and 8.
I just looked through the various brochures and documentation that Dodge, Ford, and GM gave us in 2003 (for 2004 models) when my company was making a fleet buy. Chevy and Dodge brochures use almost the same language to describe their pick-ups, "...under class 3." Ford just lumps the SuperDuty in with the F-series and says, ...Super Duty models can be equiped to class 3 service."
Although the word "heavy duty" appears in the Ford literature to describe certain aspects of the F-series and Superduty line (..heavy duty one ton..), nowhere in the literature I have has Ford refered to a Super Duty as a "heavy duty truck."
Dusty
But, has anyone noticed that the pricing is very close between an F150 and an F250? Same thing between a Silverado 1500 and a Silverado 2500 HD. At a quick glance there is about a $1000 difference in MSRP between comparably (e.g., trim levels, not engines/frames) equipped vehicles. This makes the F250/350 or 2500HD with the superior drive train and chassis a much better deal. Take the Silverado. For a thou extra over a 1500 you get 2000 more Gross Combined Weight, a 6.0 with a 6 speed auto, and real (i.e, disc) rear brakes and heavy duty frame.
Just thought I'd let you guys show what you know.
And now we know.
DrFill
I do think that Ford markets the Super Duty very well. On the new '08s the tail gate even has the words SuperDuty stamped-in in big letters visible from a 100 yards away. That and other badging is way too gauche for the F150 crowd but very appropriate for the F250/350 buyer. I don't think GM does any where near as good a job at marketing the 2500HD. As a result most of them are sold as pure vocational vehicles whereas lots of the Super Dutys I see are more aspirational than vocational, seeing more duty at Home Depot than anything else.
keep in mind that GM has all new trucks out there and they still aren't beating the F-Series.
Mark.
I'm just here to do my job, which is educate the people.
Spread the word.
DrFill
1) '07 ex-Budget Rental with 14K miles in dark green. This 4x4 Supercab is an XLT with no other options (no trailer package, nothing)except a bed liner. But it is an XLT with the all important power windows and locks. The local Ford store is asking 21.8K
2) A new '07 4X4 Supercab , XLT package, with some nice options to include cloth captains chairs ($300), tinted windows, positraction type rear end ($300), MP3 sterio, 5.4 engine, and trailer towing package. The bottom line of invoice less the $4500 Ford rebate is 26K.
Gentlemen, I think one could negotiate the used one down. I don't think that the new unit is negotiable into the holdback area.
Whaddya think?
Tell 'em you just drove a Tundra, and watch them bend over!
I hate dark green on pick-ups anyway, and how many people have driven the rental? Smoked in it. Eat in it. Did God knows what?
This is an easy one. Plus you'll get a great rate from Ford!
That's If you have to get a second-rate truck! :confuse:
DrFill
1offroader
John