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Still, Ford sells a lot, but sales for their trucks are continually dropping. The housing market is taking its toll and gas prices aren't helping. By 2009, there will be a pickup (pardon the pun) in sales, but if gas and housing construction continue to be barriers, it won't last long, and the bigger issue is whether they'll be able to come out with the same interior quality while matching it up with a much stronger powertrain at a competitive price... time will tell I guess...
However, the Ford 5.4 is stronger then the base engins in these trucks and becaues if its much lower cost it IS the standard engine in everything but a work truck.
Also, the Toyota 4.7 still has a timing belt? whats up with that? Anyone know the cost to replace that at 60k?
The only one really with a chance to over take them ever is Chevrolet, Dodge never will and and there are not enough Metrosexual men in America to sell enough Toyota's for them to ever get close. It takes more then fancy mis-leading commercials to be on top in the truck market.
Also, the 5.4L is not the standard engine in everything but a work truck. You have to move up to a Lariat or FX4 before getting a standard 5.4L. There is an exception such as the XL extended cab long bed comes with the 5.4 but the XL extended cab short bed does not.
Also, the F-150 XLT with 5.4 for $895 and Trailer Tow package for $350 has a Tow and Go Discount at the bottom of the sticker of $1,000. This to me means that the 5.4L is free and it also means all dealers order their all XLTs with 5.4L engines which IMHO makes it practically standard.
Mark.
Various 1997-2007 vehicles with a 5.4L 2V, or 6.8L 2V engine with stripped or missing spark plug port threads in modular engine aluminum heads. Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum inserts and tool kit.
This repair is for out of warranty repairs. For warranty work you will get the new heads.
Mark.
---------------------------------------------------------
F-Series...69,220 / 76,804 / -9.9 / 481,146 / 545,963 / -11.9
Silverado..67,486 / 51,185 / 31.8 / 425,379 / 434,937 / -2.2
Ram........32,309 / 34,177 / -5.0 / 246,878 / 250,144 / -1.0
Sierra.....23,574 / 17,564 / 34.2 / 138,759 / 142,129 / -2.4
Tundra.....18,919 / 11,173 / 69.3 / 124,909 / 78,916 / 57.5
Titan.......6,985 / 5,650 / 23.6 / 45,766 / 50,178 / -9.2
Mark LT.......768 / 1,007 / -23.7 / 5,858 / 8,519 / -31.2
Silverado on the F-Series' heels. The fall push will be critical for Ford, and they have two strikes against them:
- the F150 is a lame duck
- people are skittish about the new Powerstroke in the Super Duty trucks
Tundra and Sierra are in a serious dogfight for 4th place.
kcram - Pickups Host
Mark.
Also, the F-150 XLT with 5.4 for $895 and Trailer Tow package for $350 has a Tow and Go Discount at the bottom of the sticker of $1,000. This to me means that the 5.4L is free and it also means all dealers order their all XLTs with 5.4L engines which IMHO makes it practically standard.
In your previous post, you were talking about "horsepower." When I pointed out the Chevy 5.3 L had more horses than the 5.4 L, you start talking about torque and how much more important it is. That's all well and good but you weren't talking about torque originally.
Also, you stated all dealers order the XLT trucks with the 5.4 L because it's "free." I don't know about the discount you are talking about but I do know not all XLT Fords have the 5.4.
You'll figure it out! Buyer beware. :P
DrFill
Bob
The F-150 uses the most expensive truck frame on the market today and it is by far the strongest. It is Hydroformed under engine and cab and fully boxed from front to rear.
The Tundra frame is welded where it is boxed and c-channel the rest of the way.
The F-150 uses fully boxed cross beams that pass through the frame rail and are welded on each side.
The Tundra uses stamped cross beams that are riveted.
The fact is that the F-150 is much more likely to be the truck that rides like new at 200,000 miles.
Also the 4.7 V8 on Tundra STILL uses a timing belt.
Mark.
1offroader
Sep 07 / Sep 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
------------------------------------------------------------
F-Series / 56,065 / 70,822 / -20.8 / 537,211 / 616,785 / -12.9
Silverado / 52,480 / 51,964 / 5.0 / 477,859 / 486,901 / -1.9
Ram / 30,100 / 25,081 / 20.0 / 276,978 / 275,225 / 1.0
Sierra / 18,445 / 17,604 / 9.0 / 157,204 / 159,733 / -1.6
Tundra / 19,571 / 12,609 / 61.4 / 144,480 / 91,525 / 57.9
Titan / 5,193 / 6,073 / -11.1 / 50,959 / 56,251 / -9.4
Mark LT / 795 / 1,203 / -33.9 / 6,653 / 9,722 / -31.6
Don't go overboard - debate away!
kcram - Pickups Host
Hell those numbers don't even include medium and heavy sales which we are stomping a mud hole in the competitors butt there also.
You do know the difference, right? :sick:
The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.
Same for the Silverado.
DrFill
Yes but obviously you don't, that is why I put the fact that the numbers do not include medium and heady. HD's are not 40% of our sales. A HD is for your info the size of a Peterbuilt truck. YTD we have sold 30,000 medium and heavy trucks. Which are not included in those numbers What you are talking about is Super Duty trucks. If you are going to continuously bash a company at least do a little research and quit shooting from the hip and being wrong.
F150 Light Duty Truck
F250-550 Super Duty Truck
F650-750 Medium Duty Truck
Heavy Duty, the Chassis you see Fire Engines built on. Don't know if we continue the F nomenclature up that high or not
There is Light-duty, and there is HD, or Super Duty. Ford never uses the term "Medium Duty", and you damn sure won't see that on their trucks!
Ford Sales NA doesn't brake it down that way, so neither will I.
I don't know where you got that mess from, but it is a messterpiece! :confuse:
I've sold Ford's for 3 years, and I know the difference.
Apparently your hips are shot! :sick:
DrFill
That "mess" is from the federal weight class chart:
Class 1 subclasses:
Class A--Not greater than 1360 kg. (3,000 lbs.)
Class B--Greater than 1360 kg. to 1814 kg. (3,001-4,000 lbs.)
Class C--Greater than 1814 kg. to 2268 kg. (4,001-5,000 lbs.)
Class D--Greater than 2268 kg. to 2722 kg. (5,001-6,000 lbs.)
Class 2 subclasses:
Class E--Greater than 2722 kg. to 3175 kg. (6,001-7,000 lbs.)
Class F--Greater than 3175 kg. to 3629 kg. (7,001-8,000 lbs.)
Class G--Greater than 3629 kg. to 4082 kg. (8,001-9,000 lbs.)
Class H--Greater than 4082 kg. to 4536 kg. (9,001-10,000 lbs.)
Class 3--Greater than 4536 kg. to 6350 kg. (10,001-14,000 lbs.)
Class 4--Greater than 6350 kg. to 7257 kg. (14,001-16,000 lbs.)
Class 5--Greater than 7257 kg. to 8845 kg. (16,001-19,500 lbs.)
Class 6--Greater than 8845 kg. to 11793 kg. (19,501-26,000 lbs.)
Class 7--Greater than 11793 kg. to 14968 kg.(26,001-33,000 lbs.)
Class 8--Greater than 14968 kg. (33,001 lbs. and over)
kcram - Pickups Host
GM uses HD on all trucks 3/4 ton and up (2500/3500).
And Ford uses Super Duty for all F-250 and up.
When you get to chassis frames, that's not even a retail sale at that point.
Are we talking fleet or retail? I thought we were talking retail business.
DrFill
Over the years I have rarely seen a used Tundra at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford dealership, not that that's proof of anything. But at my last visit to my Toyota dealer I saw three previous generation Tundras on their lot. I did see one 2006 Silverado, and two Titans. But no RAMs or F-150s.
I have to say that around here the Chevy dealers seem to have plenty of stock, while Ford dealers seem to be low on trucks.
Dusty
kcram - Pickups Host
The HDs are good for around 40% of F-series sales.
Which is wrong. This is a Heavy Duty truck
Dump Trucks do not account for 40% of our truck sales.
So I say again, please refrain from speaking of that which you are clueless on. Belive it or not there are allot of people who belive everything they read on this site.
There are many subjects I am clueless on to, but Ford is not one of them.
I'm talking about the Super Duty HDs. The F-250/350/450. That's a retail, lucrative profit center for Ford. And is about 40% of F-series retail sales. If you contend 250-450 are not HD, that's different.
I guess Chevy's 2500/3500 aren't HDs either, regardless of what it says on the billboards. :confuse:
DrFill
BTW where did you pull this 40% number from any how? I have the numbers right here in front of me and Super Duty sales (what you call HD sales for some reason) are not 40%.
Also in another post you said that you did not know we were talking about fleet sales. Those posted #'s include fleet sales, not sure if they include Major Fleet with a FIN# or not but know for a fact they include all fleet sales.
Pick-ups have two subclassifications:
*pick-up = Light Duty
*pick-up = Medium duty
Trucks have four subclassifications:
*SUV-Light Duty
*Truck light duty = 8500 lbs. or less
*Truck Medium Duty = 8501 to 26,000 lbs.
*Truck Heavy Duty = 26,000 lbs. or more.
See http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/alternate/page/forms/codes886.pdf
In addition, the United States Department of Transportation has defined by weight capacity:
.........min GVWR...Max GVWR
Class 1..................6,000....Light Duty
Class 2...6,001.....10,000....Light Duty
Class 3..10,001.....14,000....Light Duty
Class 4..14,001.....16,000....Medium Duty
Class 5..16,001.....19,500....Medium Duty
Class 6..19,501.....26,000....Medium Duty
Class 7..26,001.....33,000....Heavy Duty
Class 8..33,001...............Heavy Duty
Pick-up trucks are typically found in class 1, 2, and sometimes 3.
Medium trucks are class 4, 5, and 6.
Heavy trucks are class 7 and 8.
I just looked through the various brochures and documentation that Dodge, Ford, and GM gave us in 2003 (for 2004 models) when my company was making a fleet buy. Chevy and Dodge brochures use almost the same language to describe their pick-ups, "...under class 3." Ford just lumps the SuperDuty in with the F-series and says, ...Super Duty models can be equiped to class 3 service."
Although the word "heavy duty" appears in the Ford literature to describe certain aspects of the F-series and Superduty line (..heavy duty one ton..), nowhere in the literature I have has Ford refered to a Super Duty as a "heavy duty truck."
Dusty
But, has anyone noticed that the pricing is very close between an F150 and an F250? Same thing between a Silverado 1500 and a Silverado 2500 HD. At a quick glance there is about a $1000 difference in MSRP between comparably (e.g., trim levels, not engines/frames) equipped vehicles. This makes the F250/350 or 2500HD with the superior drive train and chassis a much better deal. Take the Silverado. For a thou extra over a 1500 you get 2000 more Gross Combined Weight, a 6.0 with a 6 speed auto, and real (i.e, disc) rear brakes and heavy duty frame.
Just thought I'd let you guys show what you know. :blush:
And now we know.
DrFill
I do think that Ford markets the Super Duty very well. On the new '08s the tail gate even has the words SuperDuty stamped-in in big letters visible from a 100 yards away. That and other badging is way too gauche for the F150 crowd but very appropriate for the F250/350 buyer. I don't think GM does any where near as good a job at marketing the 2500HD. As a result most of them are sold as pure vocational vehicles whereas lots of the Super Dutys I see are more aspirational than vocational, seeing more duty at Home Depot than anything else.
keep in mind that GM has all new trucks out there and they still aren't beating the F-Series.
Mark.
I'm just here to do my job, which is educate the people.
Spread the word.
DrFill
1) '07 ex-Budget Rental with 14K miles in dark green. This 4x4 Supercab is an XLT with no other options (no trailer package, nothing)except a bed liner. But it is an XLT with the all important power windows and locks. The local Ford store is asking 21.8K
2) A new '07 4X4 Supercab , XLT package, with some nice options to include cloth captains chairs ($300), tinted windows, positraction type rear end ($300), MP3 sterio, 5.4 engine, and trailer towing package. The bottom line of invoice less the $4500 Ford rebate is 26K.
Gentlemen, I think one could negotiate the used one down. I don't think that the new unit is negotiable into the holdback area.
Whaddya think?
Tell 'em you just drove a Tundra, and watch them bend over! :blush:
I hate dark green on pick-ups anyway, and how many people have driven the rental? Smoked in it. Eat in it. Did God knows what?
This is an easy one. Plus you'll get a great rate from Ford!
That's If you have to get a second-rate truck! :confuse:
DrFill
1offroader
John