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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?

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Comments

  • The little things will get corrected and the basic superior performance and safety will shine through. Several months ago I said that this was a marathon not a sprint. 10 yrs from now we'll reassess.

    Pretty hard to win a marathon when you fall on your face coming out of the gate. This "Marathon" started about 1993 with the T100 and again in 2000 with the 1st gen Tundra, when can we "reassess" those launches? Or don't they "count"?

    "Little Things"??? I wonder how "little" you would think they were if the GMT900's had them. Funny how the new Tundra can have a dozen or so "not-so-little" issues in it's first year yet you consider them "little and they will get solved". Yet GM has very few issues with their GMT900's, yet they are still inferior? Typical Toyota fan logic.

    "Basic Superior Performance and Safety"??? Please tell me how the Tundra performs better (as a 1/2 ton truck, not a drag racer). And how is it safer than the GMT900's? (facts, not opinions please). The GMT900's have better payload and very similar (better in some configs) towing capacities. Safety features are just as good as well. At least I can get my payload into my bed without removing the tailgate first. And at least I can wipe my dash and set stuff on it without worrying about the paint rubbing off. Yep, top-notch quality there!!!

    If you don't think these quality issues with the Tundra will affect sales, you are dreaming. This news travels fast in this Truck segment and people will not buy a truck that cannot be used as a truck.

    I have a question maybe you can answer since you are a Toyota guy. Toyota's response to the tailgate issue was that it was not a load bearing component, therefore they recommend that you remove it when loading/hauling heavy stuff and also that you should never drive with it down with or without cargo on it. Yet they advertise and sell a bed extender on their accessories website??? Please explain that for me.
  • None of your business. Why do you ask? Lead Frycook at Mickey D's. :shades:
  • ok let me get this straight, so Toyota engineers a soft-drop tailgate for women...err...i mean ease of use, but to load anything "heavy" in my newly built, with "superior performance" truck, I'm supposed to remove the whole thing? Whats the point of having a soft-drop tailgate if i have to remove the damn thing to get anything in there? Please tell me Toyota didn't actually propose this as their solution...and it looks like this isnt the first time they've had problems with their trucks' tailgates..

    http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=124526
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Reading between the lines of Toyota's response on the NHTSA frontal crash tests,,,, [hmmmm it's interesting that our own testing and that of the IIHS show the Tundra to be at the top or at least equal to all the others, except in the testing done by the agency that has often been considered to be in the back pocket of the US Auto Industry ( see Ford Explorer for example )]

    This of course was never said. But the NHTSA is an arm of the largest political organization in the country, the US Fed Govt. double hmmmm nah that;s like the Big 3 always chirping about CR's 'paid off' bias.

    The answer is only the engineers and testers know;
    Raw scores:
    S.. 471/428 and 35/42
    T.. 476/486 and 47/46
    R.. 411/378 and 39/41
    F.. 493/617 and 38/34 **** the highest risk of head injury of all the vehicles but still both 5 stars [between the lines hmmmmm]

    On the basis of these four sets of numbers, 3 are 5* and the other is 4*.

    I am not a collision testing engineer but to me these numbers show that in comparing the GMT900s vs the new Tundra by the NHTSA test the drivers of the two vehicles are the same essentially but the passenger might have more risk. So if the driver numbers are the same essentially why is one 5* and the other 4*? Maybe the nominal dividing line is a score of 475!!! That means the Silvy just squeeked in under the wire and the Tundra missed by 1 point!! Now there's a huge safety difference. ;) Now how the NHTSA came to that score [reading between the lines, again] is what Toyota is studying.

    Just for comparision purposes here are the raw scores for the 2007 'Classic' ( 4* / 3* ) and the 2006 Tundra ( 4* / 5* ) both with 'older technology':
    788/1106 and 46/53
    615/413 and 46/44
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    srry replied b4 I saw your post.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    OK and the sales have been increasing steadily for 14 yrs. So.

    It's only about money and profits, nothing more. If each model is profitable and growth is slow and steady then it's a successful business venture.

    Profits, bottom line, cash in the bank..nothing more, it's just business.

    The standard Safety features of the Tundra on every model in the lineup is what tilts the balance in favor of the Tundra. By the NHTSA figures the two are essentially the same ( see the raw scores ). The fact is that in a lot of GMT900 models a buyer can't get the same features that a Tundra buyer can.

    We've been over and over the performance numbers ad infinitum.
    ..the GMT900s generally have better payloads, true
    ..the GMT900s vs the Tundra 5.7L are only competitive in towing in 4 configurations. They are far behind in all the others.
    ..pickup under load and pickup empty are far far in favor of the Tundra due to GMs built-in torque limiter.

    But this thread is only about sales, profits, money, cash. Here the figures speak for themselves.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    IMHO, the Tundra representing the biggest pickup truck ever made by Toyota is a scaled up Tacoma.

    Not counting the Ranger, the F-150 is the smallest lightest pickup truck Ford makes.

    The Max GVW you can get on an F-150 is 8300. This is just under the CURB weight of the F-450 pickup which has a GVW of up to 14,500 and a 5th wheel tow rating over 22,000 (Yes thats CDL territory)

    The F-150 is built like a scaled down version of the Super Duty and the different approach tells.

    Mark.
  • Increasing steadily for 14 years? How many T100's did Toyota sell in 1993, Tundra's in 2000? At this rate, how many Tundra's will sell in 2015? 2020? Maybe 300K? And you think this will threaten the domestic truck market?

    You sure like to hang your hat on safety. I have said it before and I'll say it again, all of the newer vehicles (cars and trucks) are very safe compared to even 10 years ago. Kudos to Toyota for making the Tundra "safe", arguing about which ones are safer is truly splitting hairs as there are so many variables when it comes to real-world accidents. People can die in even the safest vehicle and live in the least safe vehicle, it all depends on the circumstances. Yes, Toyota did make side airbags and ESC standard in all Tundra's, again, Kudos to them. But you do realize it is much easier to accomplish this when you only make 200K/yr. GM makes a million+ trucks/yr. And in a few years it will all be a moot point anyway as it will be mandated by Gov't in all vehicles. My question to you is this; How many truck buyers make safety features a #1 priority in a truck? (besides soccer moms). Yes, safety is important, but if Toyota wants to compete in this truck segment, they need to realize there is more to building a great truck than HP, 0-60 times and number of airbags. Things like payload, frame design, bed integrity, tailgate design, interior quality (painted dash/panels?), etc etc will play a much larger role in long term sales than how many airbags it has. People that buy a truck expect to be able to use it like one. Toyota's response to the tailgate issue saying the Tailgate is part of the body and is not a load bearing component and needs to be removed to load heavy objects into the bed simply will not fly in this country. Whether Bed Bounce is a real issue or just a percieved issue does not matter, it is an issue and it WILL affect sales. Tundra owners are "expecting" Toyota to address these issues, and if they do, all will be well since they have a good reputation for customer satisfaction. But responses such as this show that may be changing and if they do not address this tailgate or bed bounce issue, it will be a huge mistake on their part, especially when everyone knows how "rich" Toyota is and they can afford to fix these issues. If they don't it will show their greed and people will be a bit upset, doncha think?

    Please do not respond with more of your "safety facts", save that for your customers. I already know how safe the Tundra is. I also know how cheaply it is built. America is also finding that out at an alarming rate.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Increasing steadily for 14 years? How many T100's did Toyota sell in 1993, Tundra's in 2000? At this rate, how many Tundra's will sell in 2015? 2020? Maybe 300K? And you think this will threaten the domestic truck market?

    Who cares about 1993 sales wnd who cares about 'threatening' anybody. It's only about money...profits...cash... nothing more. It's just business.

    All the rest is fanboi hoohaa.

    It's a huge market with plenty of profit potential for every company that wants to make the effort to put out a competitive product. Now change some of the parameters like send fuel up to $6 a gal and have a lot of the 'recreational' truck buyers begin walking away then it might become messy. Until then everybody is on their toes, if they weren't already. There are 4 fulltime players now instead of 3.

    As regards to the first year issues you mentioned yes Toyota owes it to the purchasers to 'address' the issues to try to keep them as owners for life like a lot of the Corolla and Camry owners. Thye 'bed bounce' is a good example since enough people are reporting about it that it's a real issue. OTOH there are a bunch of owners who are not experiencing it all. Weird. Some have resolved the problems themselves and others cannot. More data nees to be gathered to determine the actual cause(s). This is something Toyota should do for the satisfaction of those involved. Again time will tell on this.

    To be revisited in 3 and 5 and 7 yrs from now.
  • There are 4 fulltime players now instead of 3.

    Aren't you forgetting Nissan? If 200K/yr is worthy of being considered a player, then Nissan needs to be considered one as well. I would buy a Titan before I bought a Tundra any day. They are nice trucks, but not as nice as GM/F/D.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nissan has a full sized truck but only with one engine and two cabs. It won't reach 70000 units. At 125,000 units last year and only limited configurations Toyota was not a major player either.
  • So, 70K and 125K is not a "major" player but 200K is?

    Let's see. 75K, 125K, 200K.................900K Seems like Tundra is closer to a "minor" player than a "Major" player to me.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's not even so much the volume. It's the breadth of the lineup and the volume. But that's just my own view. There are others for sure.

    Toyota is definitely a minor player at present no question. In comparison to the Big Two it's small. It's not so small in relation to Dodge though. But in any event it still only comes down to profits and bottom line. All 4 are likely to be HUGELY profitable in this segment.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    Can't beat them, I joined them. My age is 53 and I remember the Toyota dealership opening with their small cars that rusted out pretty fast.Back then I thought Toyota did not have a chance against the big three. Well I humbly admitt I was wrong. As a former owner of Ford PKUPS I am now the proud owner of my second Toyota PKUP Simply put QUALITY, GREAT RESALE, and finally a truck that not only meets but exceeds anything the big three offers in their gas engine line up. More horse power, more tow ability, better fuel mileage, many standard options that is options in others. I for one will never say never as to who will sell the most pickups in the future.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    I'm 55 years old, not to trump you,I ownd a 1960 chevy fleet side bought in 1985 loved it,three on the tree and had to bouble clutch first and secound gear to make them drop in. my next truck was a toyota deluxe single cab I bought three toys after that and they were bullet proof. I now own a 07 crewmax sr5 4by4 and love driving it. I see alot of negative posts about this model but have not yet expeienced most of the problems listed. Rumble strip has seamed to have gone away when I don't feather the the throtle between 30 and 40 mph. I love this truck!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    "I see alot of negative posts about this model but have not yet expeienced most of the problems listed."

    The words "not yet" means that you expect to experience the problems? Seriously though good luck with your truck. I wouldn't wish a bad experience on anyone especially when Consumer Reports just gave the 4x4 Tundra an "unreliable" rating.
  • b2900

    I had just the opposite experience as you. Bought my first Toyota 4x4 in 1985, really liked it. Based on my experience with my '85, I eagerly bought another in 1992, and after quite a few problems, WORSE quality than my 1985, factory recalls, and crummy dealer service I said not again this time around. Why should a vehicle get worse from 1985 to 1992? With 7 more years of experience under their belt, it should have been significantly better.

    Quality? 1985 yes, 1992 no. The quality trend is in the wrong direction. CR just verified my attitude, but I don't pay a whole lotta attention to magazine reports. I trust my own eyes and judgment much more, having worked on cars and trucks for the last 35 years. Resale? Doesn't matter much to me, I tend to keep a vehicle for a long time, and resale is usually pretty low by then on anything no matter who makes it.

    Looked at the Tundra frame, interior, exterior and it didn't make the grade, and they couldn't make the sale to me. I'm absolutely not saying I'll never buy another Toyota, I might, but they have a looooong way to go to get me to return to buy a full size p'up. The Big 3 offerings aren't perfect, nothing is, but I see lots of ancient Chevys, Dodges, & Fords still hard at work after years of loyal service to their owners. The 2007 Tundra? How many will be on the road in 20-25 years? Few, if any, I'm guessing.

    But good luck w/yours, I really do hope it works out for you. Compettiton is good for the industry, and if it serves to shake things up a bit I'm all for it.

    1offroader
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    i'm not sure how you get expect from "not yet" but you know best. btw i was just having a conversation with another person on this site. don't understand your motivations to attack and be rude? never mind please don't respond.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    i may not agree with all you have said but at least your honest and you make good points. no truck/car is perfict.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Resale is based on 2 things, Supply and Demand.

    Toyotas have higher resale value right now because the never made huge numbers of trucks. Even 250,000 per year is not a big number compared to what the Big 3 especially Ford and GM have been churning out over 30 years.

    The Ford and GM trucks lower resale value is solely a reflection of lower perceived quality. Even if they were perfect and ran for 500,000 miles there are still so many of them out there.

    Here in NJ i OFTEN seen F-series and GM trucks from the 70s and 80s on the road. I don't hardly ever see an older Toyota truck on the road.

    Mark.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    " I don't hardly ever see an older Toyota truck on the road."

    I remember owning a Toyota back in the 70's. The complaint I had is similar to what some of the new Tundra owners are complaining about which is that the body metal is soft and will dent easily. Back then I heard that they were made out of recycled beer cans. I guess there might be some truth to that.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Main Entry: 1yet
    Pronunciation: \ˈyet\
    Function: adverb
    Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gīet; akin to OldFrisian ieta yet
    Date: before 12th century

    1 a: in addition : besides 2 a (1): up to now : so far —often used to imply the negative of a following infinitive

    (2): at this or that time : so soon as now b: continuously up to the present or a specified time : still c: at a future time : eventually

    Here's the definition of yet and if you input the definition into your statement you will get a "not at this or that time". So my question was do you expect it in the future? That was based on your statement.

    If you believe my post was an attack, I suggest you report it to a host. I asked a question and you think its an attack? You're too funny... :P
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    I'm reporting it to a host... me.

    The sarcasm isn't necessary... we all know what the word means. Keep the debate on a more mature level, please.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    I beg to differ with you. My wife is a sales rep that puts alot of miles on her Camry and she trades every two years ..She has had some 11 Toyotas and there has never been a trade in where we felt offended Actually it is exactly the opposite were always amazed what they offer her as her cars are high mileage. As well there is not two weeks after the trade that we get a call for the new owners of her cars.

    In all I was a die hard Ford man and still have a hot rod Ford.. It was her that got me to at least try one and I am impressed. My last 2004 Tundra wil 120KM that I paid $26K for I was given$18K on a trade. My last Ford that was close to the same price and age and mileage the Ford dealer offers me $10K on a trade?????
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Oct 07 / Oct 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    F-Series /51,741 / 55,947 / -7.5 / 588,952 / 672,732 / -12.5
    Silverado /48,716 / 52,409 / -10.6 / 526,575 / 539,310 / -2.4
    Ram /24,711 / 28,251 / -13.0 / 301,689 / 303,476 / -1.0
    Sierra /17,417 / 18,080 / -7.4 / 174,621 / 177,813 / -1.8
    Tundra /17,868 / 10,046 / 71.0 / 162,348 / 101,571 / 59.2
    Titan / 5,001 / 5,499 / -12.6 / 55,960 / 61,750 / -9.7
    Mark LT / 666 / 946 / -29.6 / 7,319 / 10,668 / -31.4

    Ford needs three things:
    1 - a quick strike-free UAW negotiation
    2 - a quick end to the UAW/International strike (to keep Super Duty trucks going)
    3 - a redesigned 2009 F150 that people will want over the competition.

    On that third point, Ford can't fall short. The new Silverado/Sierra and Tundra have a year head start. Dodge will release the new Ram at the same time as the F150. The bar is set at a level Ford has never seen before, and their #1 status is definitely at risk.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • There is an interesting link to an audio interview at the NPR web site. An official with Consumer Reports explains why they give the 2007 Tundra a "Not Recommended" rating, along with the Camry V-6, and the Lexus GS. He says this is unusual, they usually give Toyota vehicles a "Recommended" rating. He also says it is based on surveys of ACTUAL OWNERS. So, according to CR, actual 2007 Tundra owners are complaining about reliability, esp. the
    V-8 4x4 model.

    www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15807208

    This is a sign of hubris that I mentioned in a previous post. It is very predictable in a company that has developed a good reputation, and then has grown faster that it is capable of sustaining at a high quality level. Toyota is coasting on its reputation, and quality is suffering. It has made the all-too-common mistake of thinking that whatever it throws out there people will stand in line to buy. Not! Toyota is not unique in that respect, GM and Ford have seen it too, but they have turned the quality corner that Toyota is just now entering. Toyota is learing a tough lesson in the full size truck market, traditionally the hardest market to crack which is the reason they've done so poorly there in the past (T100, earlier Tundra).

    Sales will suffer over what they should have been, and they now have catching up to do instead of building on their solid reputation.

    Don't bother pointing to the big "increase" in Tundra sales from last year, that is like comparing grapes to watermelons. The previous Tundra was nowhere near the capability of a full size truck. The early model had such poor sales, numbers could only go up from there.

    1offroader
  • mule2mule2 Posts: 11
    In response to everyone that talks about the quality of Toyotas. I bought a new 2001 Cadillac Seville Sls a $45,000
    car kept it 3 years had four inches of water get in it because the body wasn't sealed , had a wheel bearing go out,had instrument cluster replaced, had computer problems, had seat heaters go bad,the car was 3 years old looked great had 65000 miles on it could only get $10,500 trade in. Replaced it with a Nissan 2005 Pathfinder has been a great car no problems bought a new 2004 chevrolet Z71 had nothing but problems had rear end put replaced , had transmiision problems, Had instrument cluster problems, had drive shaft problems, had steering column problems, got rid of truck at 30,000 miles because I was gun shy of it, bought a new Toyota Tundra problems had that I don't like the bed shakes and vibration and I was told by Toyota dealer that Toyota was supposed to come out with a bulletin to fix problem the Toyota does have good performance I pulled a 9500lb. 34ft Jayco Eagle camper in the Ozark Mountains and it did as good of job as aDodge Diesel that I had before I bought The Chevrolet anyone can go to chevrolet, ford and dodge forums and they are having lots of problems too, But I believe the japenese automobiles have a better resale value than the big 3
  • I agree, resale may be better, but I keep cars a long time, resale is always minimal for me anyway. Lots of vehicles have problems, but as a former Toyota pickup owner I can attest they also have lots of problems. I decided to try something different this time around. I have no brand loyalty.

    What makes me LOL are the posters who seem to worship at the "Toyota quality" altar, as if they can do no wrong. Toyota is just like the rest, they have feet of clay.

    Message to all auto makers - when you work the bugs out of a particular component and it is reliable and the does the job - engine, transmission, whatever - LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE! We don't need change just for the sake of change. Especially truck buyers. If you feel you must change something, change the body style or something that doesn't compromise the function of the vehicle. Keeping a rugged component also will reduce your cost - in design, production, and minimal warranty service. It will INCREASE SALES - buyers will know that the components are durable and time-tested, and will reward you accordingly with their purchases.

    Got that? Good.

    1offroader
  • mule2mule2 Posts: 11
    A prime examble Is when ford replaced the 7.3 diesal with the 6.0 which had problems. I started to buy 1 before i bought a chev. z71 witch was a lemon.A friend that worked in service dept. told me about them. I tried to find a 7.3 but could'nt.I'm not good on spelling.
  • AMEN to that...
  • We're looking for a new pickup for our company. It will be used only occasionally during the week on business and the rest of the time will be used for weekend play stuff. Because of that I am going to spec it out with so I would enjoy driving it on weekends. I first looked at the F150. Not only do they seem to have a higher MSRP than Chevy when you compare apples to apples (e.g., XLT with big V8, towing, leather, and rear window defroster) they are clearly a step behind GM in interior packaging, engine noise, and ride, IMHO. Clearly, Ford has a lot of catching up to do.

    The Chevy/GM rode much better than comparably equipped Fords, had much less engine roar, wind noise, and so forth.

    I was reluctant to even step foot into a Toyota for lots of reasons, some good, some bad. But today, I test drove a new Tundra with the regular cab. Fantastic interior for a basic truck, lots of places to store change, sunglasses, etc., nice seating, nice uncluttered dash, nice ride, etc. I was also impressed by the high level of tech "content" which they talk about: the 10"+ pinion gear, the four piston disc brakes, warming of the ATF fluid, the built-in tow receiver, and so forth. There was even adequate room behind the front seat for a couple of canvas overnight bags which might mean you wouldn't have to buy an Extended Cab. On this basic truck, everything was standard: the limited slip, the side curtain air bags, power windows and locks, their version of GM's Stabiltrak, a dash mounted 4WD/2WD selector, a 5 or even 6 speed tranny, tow package, and on and on. They don't start with a "work truck" and then make you build it up. All in all this truck seemed to be the Swiss Army knife of pickups.

    Now, which truck are we going to buy? Well, probably a GM because like most Americans of a certain age, I want what I want. If I don't spec them, I don't want to have options forced on me. As long as I can take delivery by the end of December (for tax reasons) I can wait. For example, I don't need the $3000 extra 5.7 but I would like the front buckets. Unfortunatley, you can't get leather and buckes without ordering the equally expensive TRD package. But even if I could disaggregate their packaging, apparently, a customer can't "order" a Tundra to his spec. This is a shame. It can't be attributed to long lead times back in Japan for what is touted as an "American built truck." I really do want to try to buy one of these but not if I have to buy 6K of engine and TRD decals that will have negative value to me. (A 5.7 engine having negative value? Sure, poorer gas mileage is costly.) Why doesn't Toyota do away with this anti-ordering policy and let us order US-built product from US plants? I think that the additonal step in their distribution system (i.e., regional distributors,) as they seek to minimize variation and more importantly force customers into higher profit margin "packages" may be responsible for this.
  • mule2mule2 Posts: 11
    I ordered a new tundra with the options i wanted on it took about 30 days.I ordered in april from landers toyota in little rock ar.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    I to ordered my Tundra and was able to get exactly what I wanted.
  • Thanks. But here is my story.

    All I want is a basic cab, long bed, leather, buckets, and the Lexus 4.7 engine. Can I get that? No. Can I get it if I forget about the leather and buckets? No. I can only get it with a $3,000 5.7 engine with no buckets and no leather. Do I really need a humongus 5.7 engine that costs 3K extra and gets 2MPG worse mileage to haul lobster pots around Block Island, RI (figure 3 miles by 7 miles)?

    I am told that Toyota has no "allocations" to build any non-5.7 basic cab trucks, with or without leather and buckets. Doesn't make any sense to me either.

    Any Chevy dealer in New England will take an invoice price deal and order what I want. Guess where I am going?
  • eveseves Posts: 4
    :lemon: Well, it has been nice to read the coments posted on the various sites referencing the Toyota Tundra front end crash. My son purchased his second Tundra a 2007 4-dr SR5 in June 2007. It appears that the vehicle left the road after the right rear tire failed. The reason that this is evident is that the wheel rim is severely marked by the roadway asphalt, before he went onto grass and struck a tree. Unfortunately he past away from grevious head injuries the same day.

    This vehicle folded like a Budweiser beer can, and his injuries were caused in part to the substantially deminished occupant space.

    Our insurance company has contacted Toyota, and they are having it inspected on November 28th at Seattle. I have advised the NHTSA but they are a very fickle orginization in their response.

    As the Washington State Ptrol have indicated that the speed of Chris's Tundra was the posted 50 M.P.H. I am extremely disappointed in the vehicles lack of protection of him upon impact.

    In closing my son had complained that the right rear wheel was losing air, and the warning system activated numerous times. He could not find why, as I suspect that the dealer and tire shop only checked the tread for foreign materail and not the bead.

    If anyone has a similar concern or questions in this regard please e-mail me at
    [email protected]

    Ron Eves :lemon: :lemon:
  • Ron. Thanks for sharing your story, and for what it's worth, sorry for your loss. I used to be a toyota loyalist, and my 17 year old daughter I send to work everyday in an 05 Honda Accord. My wife complains about the size of my truck - an '06 Dodge Mega 3500. But when I hear stories like yours, I feel better in as large a truck as I can find. Let us know how your fight with the dealers and manufacturers turns out.
  • mule4mule4 Posts: 36
    Ron i hate to hear about the lose of your son. I own a tundra also .I wouldn't want to hit a tree at 50 mph in any automobile.the seat belts & air bags should have helped.I believe all cars & trucks need to be more saver.good luck in your battle.
  • I got exactly what I wanted on my Tundra. It did take some time but waiting for the best 1/2 ton on the market is time well spent.
  • I got exactly what I wanted on my Tundra. It did take some time but waiting for the best 1/2 ton on the market is time well spent.

    Did you get a rear locker? How about a tailgate that can hold more than 100 lbs? Remote starter that's worth a damn? Auto 4wd? Heated washer fluid? Rainsense wipers? Tranny that doesn't "Rumble"? non-painted dash? Fully boxed frame? 5yr/100K powertrain warranty? 12 way power seats? 3-level, dual zone heated seats?

    Hmmm, I got ALL of that, and more. And only had to wait 6 weeks from order to delivery. Oh, and for less money too. :P
  • I doubt that you purchased a 6- speed with 381 hp.

    Sounds like you bought a POS. Hope you purchased the extended warranty because you will need it.
  • Nope, no shift-happy 6 speed rumbling tranny for me. I prefer my smoooooth shifting reliable HD 4 speed. Oh, and I have MORE than 381 HP and MORE than 400 lb-ft of TQ.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Nov 07 / Nov 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    F-Series / 46,568 / 52,727 / -11.7 / 635,520 / 725,459 / -12.4
    Silverado / 38,122 / 44,363 / -14.1 / 564,697 / 583,673 / -3.3
    Ram / 24,488 / 27,826 / -12.0 / 326,177 / 331,302 / / -2.0
    Sierra / 13,840 / 15,382 / -10.0 / 188,461 / 193,195 / -2.5
    Tundra / 14,988 / 10,469 / 43.2 / 177,336 / 112,040 / 57.7
    Titan / 5,001 / 4,867 / 2.8 / 60,961 / 66,617 / -8.8
    Mark LT / 512 / 930 / -44.9 / 7,831 / 11,598 / -32.5

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • My 6 speed 4x4 Tundra is silky smooth. It seems that you are embarrassed to state what truck you purchased? 4 speed? Very retro but inferior.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    I believe anythingbut has been ejected,and will most likely return soon with a new name since it wants to continue cashing a pay check. PS anythingbut challenged the host(KCRAM) and well the rest is history.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    it wasn't unfortunately.

    I'm surprised at the latest result with the F-150 still on top of the heap since it is in dire need of upgrading. I guess that's what brand loyalty is all about eh?

    So h20 what's with this newly discovered sound coming from your truck? Any discoveries/updates?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    A reporter seeks consumers who have decided to keep their truck, instead of purchasing a new one, given the economic climate. If you’re a home builder, that would be even more helpful. Please send your daytime contact information to [email protected] no later than Monday, December 10, 2007.

    MODERATOR

    Need help navigating? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Their sales are tanking. The Tundra may end up being a bigger bomb than the Nissan Titan, which is in danger of getting cancelled after a lot of hype, Truck of the Year awards, etc, and only a few years on the market. Ironically, owners of the Titan can actually use their tailgates to put loads in the bed, unlike the Toyota, apparently.

    Toyota, despite their marketing, apparently designed this truck for the weekend warrior type rather than people who actually use trucks for real work. The crappy tailgate and apparently crappy bed are inexcusable on Toyotas first "real" truck. It just won't cut it. Once word gets around, their sales will consist of only those weekend warriors who can justify paying at the pump to feed it. People who actually use trucks for work will stick with the Big 3, which by all accounts are more reliable and built for actual work. (I haven't heard of any reliability issues with the new GM trucks despite far outselling Toyota, imagine that. GM doesn't require owners to remove their tailgates to load their truck!).

    The Big 3 will lose the weekend warrior crowd, too, but core truck buyers will stick to the Big 3. Ford faces a challenge from GM, not Toyota. What is this, strike 3 for Toyota's attempt to penetrate the full size truck market? I think Ford hangs on to #1 until the new model, then we'll have to see how good it is.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    If tanking is selling more then 200 thousand units and exceeding Toyota's 12 month sales goals in 11 months. I am sure all Toyota can say is TANKYOU!. I finally have my 2008 Crew Max and I totally love it! My Crew Max was ordered as the dealer was sold out , perhaps that could be consider a empty TANK.And I did not mind the two month wait as I ordered it and got exactly what I ordered.
  • Hear tell that them tundra ones is bustin tailgates if worked hard. How can them ones be lastin on that farm, if them tailgates bust off of them? Is them tailgates rustin out? That be the way of them ones... rustin and bustin. That tundra sure aint goin sell out over them big3 ones with them tailgates bustin, thats for sure! What say, is them tailgates bustin if folks work em hard? Good luck on this one now!
  • Uhhmmm, better check your facts. Toyota has not met their sales goals yet and in all liklihood will just miss them.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/10/toyota-needs-big-december-to-reach-200k-tundr- a-sales/

    Toyota doesn't agree with you, as they happen to be ashamed of the new Tundra, and blame it on Texans at the ol' San Anton factory:

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/tundra-problems-bring-shame-to-toyota.html
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