Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
As others have said, the TL is becoming more Lexus ES-like and less BMW-like, the latest generation TSX has taken a step backward from the previous generation in terms of attributes such as nimbleness, agility and feedback, and the RL is neither well positioned nor well defined in the marketplace.
I must qualify my remarks by saying that my opinions are based on numerous road tests and evaluations that I've read, and that I've not driven the '09 TSX, TL or RL. I would also add that Acuras remain excellent cars and good values, but, then, one can say the same about Lexus and other brands. It's that some, including the three of us, would prefer a more exciting and fun-to-drive orientation, even if it has to come at the expense of fewer comfort and bleeding edge electronic features, to be price competitive.
Okay, I see what you're saying. I don't disagree. My opinion is that the bread and butter for the brand should have a good blend of comfort, style, luxury, and practicality. I have always appreciated the RDX as a fairly good example of what a good performance-oriented CUV can be. However, in the next sentence, I will bash it for being too performance-oriented and not focusing enough on interior materials, cargo capacity, ride quality, and creature comforts. The TL, MDX, and even the TSX do a much better job of providing a balanced package. We may have some common ground there.
Having written all that, I think Acura does need to offer a few "special" models to provide a halo effect. I envision this MSX being the halo car for the better-balanced MDX.
I don't disagree.
I also think that Acura do need a halo car but my vision of that is the NSX replacement, or a super coupe like the Aston Martin Vantage-fighter, M6-fighter. How about a drop-top gorgeous like the SL-fighter? Any of those cars will achieve a better "halo" effect than a pefectly pointless Acura X6...
I expect we'll see a RWD large car in 2010 or 2011. Then we'll see a RWD coupe based on THAT platform. If Acura were to release an AWD TL-based coupe for 2010 or 2011, dealers would then have two coupes competing at similar price points.
When the CL-S was introduced, Acura fans immediately began begging for a TL with the same hardware. Eventually, Acura delivered and sales of the TL-S dominated those of the CL. This is not a unique situation.
Honda released the Civic Si as a coupe and then had to build a sedan version. As soon as that happened sales of the coupe dropped.
Infiniti has tried to differentiate their G37 coupe with a larger engine not offered in the G35 sedan... only now that's on the horizon, too.
Acura's approach with the most recent TL seems to be skipping the teaser coupe and getting right to the sedan everybody really wants. The TL comes out of the gate with the upgraded engine and SH-AWD drivetrain. The manual tranny is expected next year.
A coupe version of the TSX might be a better option simply because it's less likely to compete in the same price league as the RWD coupe (assuming Acura builds one). I'm less opposed to that idea. But I don't think Acura needs to bolster the bottom end of the line-up. They need better vehicles in the $50-70K range, not the 30-40K department.
For Acura's cars, yes. For their SUVs, no.
I don't think building new variants on the base models like the TSX, TL, and RDX is a good move toward that goal. Acura's best product today is the MDX: right product, right price-point, right image. Building on that doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
At the same time, Acura needs to fix the RL (coming). They need a performance halo car (coming). They need a RWD platform (coming). And they also need new drivetrains (coming). So, it looks to me like Acura is making better moves than they have since the brand was introduced.
"But if I have $30 grand to spend on a car in the next couple of years, it won't be on an Acura."
That's sorta the point. No offense intended, but if all you're willing to spend on a car is $30K, the only thing a luxury dealer should be showing you is the door. Acura has the TSX for the bottom rung of their ladder. In fact, I'd argue they have the bottom of their line-up covered better than another other luxury brand. But the cars they need to focus on should be priced well north of that.
Halo cars aren't out there to promote a specific model or a specific type of cars. Halo cars are out there to promote the BRAND.
Not true.
A TSX-based coupe with the turbo-charged 4-banger, SH-AWD and manual tranny with the sticker around $33k will be really competitive IMO.
I am sure that car will get Mr. Nippononly's attention right away...
Oh yes you're RIGHT it would. If they could shave a few inches off that wheelbase and give it another 50% in road feel I would sure appreciate it though.
And I wouldn't spend that same $33K on a 2009 TL, that's for sure......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"A TSX-based coupe with the turbo-charged 4-banger, SH-AWD and manual tranny with the sticker around $33k will be really competitive IMO."
Just out of curiosity, when a magazine reviews Nippononly's AWD TSX, which cars would the writers use for comparisons? Would it go nose to nose with Audis and BMWs, or would the mags peg it against Subarus and Mazdas? Keep in mind the last TSX was always compared with Subaru's and Mazdas.
No matter how good the car is, entry-level products will hurt Acura's chances at being viewed as a tier 1 marque (think Integra). OTOH, good top-level products will bolster Acura's attempt to go tier 1. The MDX is currently the best product Acura has. It is the closest thing they have to a tier 1 product. Highlighting it with a Type R variant is a good idea. We haven't seen the specs, we know nothing about the powertrain, we don't even have a firm pricepoint and this thing is already being compared with a BMW costing between $50-70K.
The last Acura to compete against cars priced above $50K was released in 1991.
I'm not suggesting Acura should NOT build a TSX Type S or Type R. It would probably be a great car (just like the Integra). What I'm saying is that a car like that would do nothing for the goal of making Acura into a tier 1 brand. In fact, it would hinder that goal.
ateixeira, "Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?" #1561, 4 Dec 2008 11:23 am
Sorry for the interruption.
Here's some V8 news to get you back on track:
Honda/Acura V8 coming--but not until 2015 (Straightline)
I bought it as a second vehicle for my commute car as I drive over 40,000 miles per year. Last Thursday I was driving home from Thanksgiving dinner and was hit from behind on the interstate by a truck traveling in excess of 100mph. I was going about 74 from what I remember. I wanted to share these pictures with you of the wreck.
Ford (and its Volvo brand) and Honda (and its Acura brand) took home nearly one-third of this year’s Insurance Institute for Highway Safety “Top Safety Pick” awards.
Honda, Acura and Subaru also stood out by taking home a Top Safety Pick award in each class in which they offer a vehicle.
The winners of the award are:
Large cars
Acura RL
Audi A6
Cadillac CTS
Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Mercury Sable
Toyota Avalon
Volvo S80
Midsize cars
Acura TL, TSX
Audi A3, A4
BMW 3 series 4-door models
Ford Fusion with optional electronic stability control
Honda Accord 4-door models
Mercedes C class
Mercury Milan with optional electronic stability control
Saab 9-3
Subaru Legacy
Volkswagen Jetta, Passat
Midsize convertibles
Saab 9-3
Volkswagen Eos
Volvo C70
Small cars
Honda Civic 4-door models (except Si) with optional electronic stability control
Mitsubishi Lancer with optional electronic stability control
Scion xB
Subaru Impreza with optional electronic stability control
Toyota Corolla with optional electronic stability control
Volkswagen Rabbit
Minicar
Honda Fit with optional electronic stability control
Minivans
Honda Odyssey
Hyundai Entourage
Kia Sedona
Large SUVs
Audi Q7
Buick Enclave
Chevrolet Traverse
GMC Acadia
Saturn Outlook
Midsize SUVs
Acura MDX, RDX
BMW X3, X5
Ford Edge, Flex, Taurus X
Honda Pilot
Hyundai Santa Fe, Veracruz
Infiniti EX35
Lincoln MKX
Mercedes M class
Nissan Murano
Saturn VUE
Subaru Tribeca
Toyota FJ Cruiser, Highlander
Volvo XC90
Small SUVs
Ford Escape
Honda CR-V, Element
Mazda Tribute
Mercury Mariner
Mitsubishi Outlander
Nissan Rogue
Subaru Forester
Toyota RAV4
Volkswagen Tiguan
Large pickups
Ford F-150
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra
Small pickup
Toyota Tacoma
..... I saw yet another 2009 TL, and in every color it is HIDEOUS. :sick:
The last version TL was a handsome sedan with enough RWD styling overtones to grab G35 & 5-series shoppers despite its FWD Accord parts-sharing.
The new car looks nasty (& I'm not just talking about the BEAK).
I'm convinced they only tacked on AWD for the same reason Jaguar tacked AWD on their x-type (to disguise the pedestrian transverse-engine underpinnings).
BTW -The latest restyle works better on the TSX, but I still prefer the clean, nimble old version, a very focused sports sedan.
He wants me to come see the car, and I was wondering if I should mentally prepare myself for it, so I don't accidentally make some facial expression that hurts his feelings? :surprise: He even mentioned himself, about how polarizing the styling can be, and that it's taken a lot of flak.
From what I've seen in the pics online, it doesn't look too bad. At some angles, it makes me think of a Saturn Aura, and some other angles look a bit like a Nissan Maxima.
Oh, I agree about the previous-gen TL. I thought that was one nice looking car. Normally I like bigger cars for their room, but I thought the TL was packaged very well for its size.
Anyway, when I get a chance to actually see this car (might not be till tomorrow) I'll let y'all know what I think!
I am putting the 2010 model on my list for future purchases once the car gets the proper 3 pedal setup and I am not put off by the looks one bit. I still think the G35xS is the "looker" in this class but the TL is more engaging to drive.
I'll be curious about your impressions!
Be sure to quell both such urges so as not to hurt your friend's feelings.
I have never been a fan of the "boat tail", and it certainly doesn't work on this bloated Acura model. The front end should carry warnings for the public.
And it's now a FORTY-thousand-plus-dollar vehicle with the larger engine and the AWD, and can't even hope to keep up with its rivals at that price point.
And at the same time it will certainly kill what little remaining interest there might have been in the "halo model", the RL. Honda is driving Acura straight to the grave, a mere 20-or-so years after they launched it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Funny you mentioned that, Nippon. I remember when the '04 TL came out ('04 WAS the first year for the outgoing style, right? Memory's getting fuzzy), I thought it made the RL at the time seem obsolete. Even though the RL was redone soon after, the restyle just never did anything for me. My friend who just got the '09 had an '04 TL. I remember sitting in it, and being really impressed. Lemko and I are probably the only two people who would call it small-ish, but I remember being impressed by how roomy it was inside, given its external dimensions. The interior seemed nicely done, too, and the thing seemed a steal for the $30-32K or whatever it cost.
I actually briefly considered getting one. Yes, as cheap as I can be when it comes to cars, I actually was tempted by the TL! But I wanted to wait and see what the new Chrysler 300 would be like. And then, since my 2000 Intrepid was continuing to stay fairly reliable once it was paid off, I figured there were better things to do with my money. And considering where the stock market ultimately went, a 2004 TL probably would have been a better investment! :P
I'm also going to try looking at my friend's new TL with an open mind. Often it take awhile for a new design to grow on me. I actually hated the '98 Intrepid/Concorde when they first came out, but my attitude must have softened, for me to end up with a 2000 Intrepid that now has 143,000 miles on it!
I didn't like the '02 Camry or '03 Accord at first, either, although the Accord grew on me quicker than the Camry did. The '08 Accord didn't leave a good first impression either, but I grew to like it.
It's kinda wild to think that the Acura nameplate has been around about 23 years now. It doesn't seem that long ago.
Honda cancels new Acura NSX
Plans for Acura’s NSX supercar program are on ice.
Honda president Takeo Fukui announced the NSX’s demise on Wednesday as part of several cutbacks, as Honda grapples with the global economic downturn.
.......The new NSX was expected to debut as a 2010 model
They also have announced that the scheduled launch of the Acura brand in Japan for MY 2010 is cancelled. I think Acura may have peaked in the mid-90s, little did we realize it at the time......
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081217/FREE/812179996
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We didn't go for a spin, so I can't comment on how well it accelerated, cornered, or rode. I wouldn't be the best judge of that anyway though, since it will probably out-do anything in my fleet! I sat in it, and it seemed pretty comfortable up front. Foot room seemed tight up under the dash, though. Oh, and it failed the "Andre Test", where I put the front seat to where I'm comfortable, and then try to see if I can squeeze in the back. Headroom was actually decent, considering the car had a sunroof, and my hair was combed up, in sort of a faux-hawk. It was a bit tight on knee room though. I had to sit with my legs splayed a bit. And foot room was almost non-existent, because I couldn't get my feet under the seat. In all honesty though, a great deal of cars out there will fail the "Andre Test". Although surprisingly the Civic, of all cars, passed it! Mainly because there was more room for my feet. I guess those power assists in the TL take up a lot of room.
The interior seemed decent, but if this is a $40K or more car, IMO there's still too much plastic in it. Although I know I'm behind the times there, and nobody puts carpeting and thickly padded cloth or vinyl on the door panels anymore! I also don't like those types of gauge clusters where it looks like you can just grab it and yank it off the dash, but again, that's many cars these days.
While we were standing in the parking lot looking the car over, one of my friend's coworkers happened to walk by, and chatted with us a bit. He said it was a nice car, but he just couldn't handle something that big. Naturally I snickered. :shades:
All in all, I'd say it's a decent car, but I liked the '04-08 model better. BTW, my friend had an '04, which got totaled in an accident, and then an '07, which he traded on this one. His first Acura was a 2003 TL, which he liked, but when the '04 came out he fell in love with the new style.
He had actually been a Lincoln man in the past, but they started letting him down. He used to have an '87 Mark VII that was a good car. So good that he bought a used '92, which I think was the final Mark VII. He got something like 150-160,000 miles out of each one. But then he bought an 00 Lincoln LS that was such a turd that they got him into an '01 for a killer price. But once it got up to around 50K miles, he just didn't trust it, so he jumped ship to Acura.
And to this day, he's leery of keeping a car much over 50K miles. He told me that, in a roundabout way, he's STILL paying for that 2000 LS. I hope that doesn't mean he's been rolling negative equity every time he buys a new car. But if he's trading this often, and they're tending to have about 50K miles on them, he just might be! :surprise:
The '04 was such a huge improvement over the '03 90s-bar-of-soap stying! Too bad they took such a step backwards this year...
I see magazine articles saying the new beak fits the TSX better than it does the TL but I disagree - it looks equally bad on both cars, which are after all similar in size.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The reason: Honda is rethinking its product plans as it grapples with the global downturn in sales and economic conditions, Autocar is reporting.
In the United States, Honda’s sales fell 8 percent last year and fell 35 percent in December. Tough times have led to the demise of the NSX supercar program, which would have had a front-mounted V10 and was to be a 2010 model.
Now, Honda also has decided to shelve a rear-drive V8-powered BMW-fighting Acura that was due in 2015, according to Autocar. The V8--long a sticky issue with Honda’s green image--was seen as the wrong powerplant, given the sporadic price of fuel.
Will they eventually get to a FOUR liter V-6 instead? While continuing to give AWD tweaks to an essentially FWD platform? And calling a non-competitive RL their halo model?
I kind of assumed that when reports first surfaced that the new NSX had been canned, that it was false, or that it just had been very temporarily put on hold. I am GREATLY chagrined to discover I was wrong on that count. :-(
Acura will eventually be the Lincoln of the Japanese world, if it isn't already.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090106/FREE/901069977
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Aside from the investment required to introduce a new engine, Honda may have decided that a big, honking V8 is, yesterday's entry ticket to luxury. There may not even be a need to go to a 4.0 V6m since a direct-injection, turbocharged 3.7 could probably crank out over 400 hp.
The TSX will be getting a v6. The v6 TSX will be offered in limited quantities though. No information though my source says it will happen. The 2010 model will start production in August. 09 TSX production will stop by the end of January. The v6 TSX will probably not have SH-AWD. 2010 will see the MMC's of the RDX and the MDX. RDX gets a FWD model to help sales and to lower the price. 2009 RL production will end this month. The 2010 RL won't start production until May.
What is MMC?
Who is John Mendel?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mazda is looking better all the time, they look like the old Honda. Smaller, sporty, durable.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And the Millennia mimicked Lexus a lot more than it did Infiniti or Acura.
It would be nice to see Mazda base some models off the MS3 and MS6, sweeten up the interiors a LOT, and launch a luxury brand, wouldn't it? The Evo could be the basis for an M3 fighter.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Evo is a Mitsubishi.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.motorauthority.com/acura-ready-to-compete-with-tier-1-luxury-brands.h- tml
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090211/CHICAGO/902119980
Still waiting for something fun to reenter the Acura portfolio before I purchase my next one.......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
This is certainly believable, but what's your source of information?
MSX is the latest sign that Acura has gone badly in the wrong direction.
Will they ever again have any new models that aren't wannabe SUVs?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)