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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)
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Comments
If it has the leather, it is an automatic, right?
- Lou
I think you would have to be hammering the brakes repeatedly to notice a major difference between the X and XS. And personally, I feel that the LSD is only going to matter if you're really about to get "stuck". Those situations are probably rare for most of us.
Craig
My trade-in on the Forester was a 97 Lincoln Towncar that with the same kind of usage averaged 15.5MPG. Of course I have a few friends that tell me they average 25MPG on their Towncars which I know is a crock.
It's been my observation that when people buy a car they tend to exaggerate how little they paid for it, and when they sell it how much they got for it, and of course they always average better gas mileage then the manufacturers sticker says they will get.
The '03 XS is probably not broken in yet. Subaru engines are built to tight tolerances and I found that mine did not reach maximum fuel economy until 18,000 miles. I have averaged between 23 and 28.5 mpg with my '98 manual for nearly 5 years. My first few tanks were around 23 and gradually increased. The top mileage was on the highway in moderately warm weather without the AC running.
However, this winter, with temepratures lower than the last few years, with some challenging driving conditions and many accessories operating (seat and mirror heaters, wipers, full lights) much of the time, I hit a new low of 20 for one tank.
We do not have oxygenated fuel in our area, but the one tankful I purchased on a trip before I hit bottom, had a funny solvent-like odor, so I think that contributed to it.
I think you will find that your mileage will improve dramaticaly with warmer weather and extended break-in.
Losing Air:
Tires normally lose up to 1 pound per month with steady temperatures and also lose about 1 pound for each roughly 10 degree F decrease in ambient temperature. In our area, over the past few years, we have had wide swings in the position of the jetstream that have caused temperature changes of as much as 40 degrees F. in a day (although more often 10-15). It is also possible during bad weather to hit potholes and unseat the bead. This may correct itself over time if the wheel and bead are not actually damaged.
If both tires are on the same side, I would suspect that an object was hit, maybe when someone else was driving? But I would agree that this is a large amount in such a short time if there is no tire or wheel damage.
Personally, I'd prefer to see Subaru offer a Forester in 2WD, but it isn't gonna happen - AWD has become Subaru's calling card.
The pressure loss with decreasing temperature is consistent with the Ideal Gas Law but I'm not sure 1 lb-f/in2 loss in pressure per month with fixed temperature is normal.
tidester, host
I got the 03 X and its great in all the snows we've had here in NE Pa. Good clearance and plenty of head room. I do wish I had a cassette as some one else mentioned but that is the only thing I lack with the 03 X.
When I first purchased my Forester, my average gas milage was about 1 mpg lower.
What are your tire pressures set to? The "recommended" pressures by Subaru are on the soft side and don't do much for handling and fuel economy. I have my tires set at 34/32psi front/rear.
Ken
Craig
I'm in SE Wisconsin, so the fuel is the same here. I keep records of all my mileage; my Outback gets 18 or so in the winter on strictly city driving and 22/23 highway. In the summer, that changes to 21 city/25 highway. I have gotten 28 on a highway trip once, but that was a non-stop 'flight'.
-Brian
As for tire pressures, the dealer sets those which I assume are 29, as per the manufacturer's specifications. The car rides hard enough as it is so I would not want to increase tire pressures.
Because my wife is partially disabled we needed a vehicle that was not too high to get in to nor too low to get out of and after testing many we found that the Forester met that criteria really well. We also needed leather to enable her to slide on the seat easily and to get that in the Forester we ended up with that dam moonroof which we will never use.
Nothing rides as well or as quietly as our old (97) Towncar but it was too big when we moved into a retirement village and had smaller underground parking. Sounds like I am unhappy with the XS but I am not because it is so easy to park in tight situations (44" shorter and 8" narrower then the Towncar), to manuever in traffic, and the visability in all directions is great. Its fun to drive, although I shudder when people say it rides so nicely.
You could lower the tire pressure for a softer ride, but that'll lower your mileage as well.
- Switch to synthetic oil. I found that my milage went up approx 1 mpg after switching to Mobil 1.
- Experiment with different brands and grades of gas. Use each for several tanks and see what happens.
- Try different tires -- rolling resistance is another factor that influences gas milage. For example, Michelin MXV4 Plus (IIRC) are designed to have lower rolling resistance leading to better fuel milage.
Ken
Easy enough to check and correct. They may be as high as 40psi.
-Brian
Ron
I purchased the car the last weekend in Dec; which was a double-whammy of end-of-month and end-of year. I was negotiating with two dealers, and the price for the brand new 2003 Forester XS 5-speed was $21,098.
No "exageration" here!
Like taft4, my previous car (a Cadillac Deville) was quite different than the Forester -- and nicer riding, of course -- -- but nowhere near the FUN!!!
Larry: I believe excess oil can cause seals and gaskets to leak. Depends on how much excess there is. I had a 93 Honda Civic that was flawless. Needed to go to the dealer for a state inspection, so I had them change the oil for once. A few days afterwards, oil began to leak from the valve cover gasket. Upon checking the level, it was about a quart too high. On top of that, the idiots must have overtorqued my wheels, since my brakes began pulsing shortly thereafter.
Craig
Here's the situation:
Brake pads replaced and rotors turned at 50,000 miles.
Rotors machined and replaced 57,000 miles.
Currently at 64,000 miles and car is back in the shop for new pads and rotors.
Now almost all of my miles are around town but this seems a bit too frequent...
The first two repairs were under warranty and this one is as well. The shop, a Subaru dealer, is willing to split the cost of repairs with me; they pay for labor and I pay for parts. Since this is obviously a recurring problem I'm wondering two things: has anyone else had this consistent problem and do you think the dealer is giving me a fair shake, particularly since I have extended warranty protection?
Thanks in advance,
Ken
Craig
Ken
When the rotors warp you'll feel no vibration unless you apply the brakes. Its been my sad experience that today's rotors aren't as sturdy as the older rotors used to be - it seems thay've made them as thin as possible from the get go.
That being said and to address Craig's post above, when the mechanics put on the wheels they normally overtorque them - a lot. I'm not sure most of those guys would know a torque stick if they tripped over it. Because if they do, there's no excuse not to use one. This is not only stressful to the rotors but can also lead to wheel warpage.
Having rambled through all that, if the job was done right and the parts weren't defective when they installed them, there's no reason you should need rotors and pads in 7000 miles.
I think they should "good will" the entire job, without it costing you a dime.
Larry
Rotors should last longer than pads, of course. One thing it to try to let off the brakes after a hard stop, because the pad and rotor cool at different rates, and holding them together during the cooling process can make rotors warp.
Finally, the rotors' surface is hardened, so once your resurface them they're not going to last nearly as long as the original rotor.
Nice long-term test. Caroline should just remove those rear head rests - I have since I have kids back there. Visibility is excellent. I put the head rests up only on rare occasions that I have adults in the back seat. Also, why complain about the door locks when you can just use the power lock button or the key fob? Overall a positive review, though.
Even Edmunds is getting 21.4mpg on a green car, and press fleet cars get flogged big time. 19.4mpg is a bit low, you sure you're not a lead foot, taft4? ;-)
I'm tracking my mileage, and my low is 20.7mpg, high is 30.4mpg, with the average right at 25mpg. That's even though I've towed and had the Forester off road (on beaches) several times.
One strategy I use is to shift at about 3000 rpm if you're after top notch fuel economy. 4000 rpm max for hills and more pep. Just make sure to run it to redline once per tankful to prevent carbon build up in the cylinders.
And by the way, my record of 30.4mpg was actually with my wife behind the wheel. She takes it easy, we were driving up to see the in-laws on a road trip and her speeds were a good 10mph slower than mine. My mileage is usually 2-3 mpg lower than hers!
The shape is square, so you'll do better at 55mph than you will at 70 by far.
-juice
It could very well be that the wheel lugs were overtorqued causing the rotors to warp.
Also, machining rotors is a trade-off. You do get smoother action for a while, but you also make the rotors more susceptible to future warping.
My original pads and rotors lasted me until well past 70K miles (I do a lot of highway). Instead of resurfacing the rotors, I had a set of larger WRX rotors and pads installed in the fronts.
Ken
Another thought -- certain types of pads will affect rotor longevity (heard a discussion about this on Car Talk recently). I would make sure the pads are the proper Subaru replacement parts.
Finally, could it be possible that the shop screwed up the rear brakes while servicing the bearings? If so, and the front brakes are carrying more load than they should, this would lead to overheating and warpage under normal driving. You'd wear through brake pads quickly too.
If the problems started happening after the shop serviced the bearings, I would suspect something connected to that event.
Craig
-juice
I wonder if I should change my automatic transmission oil.
Could you give me an answer?
And what esle should I check for my first visit to the dealershop?
Thanks!
The only thing you really need the dealer to do at 3K is change the oil and filter.
Craig
My personal experience with rotors is that if they are turned, even if still within thickness spec, there is a good chance that they will warp within a few months. The thinner material does not dissipate heat well. So, I have insisted that the pads be replaced and the rotors cleaned, but otherwise left alone. I usually get arguments like "but they are rusted and will damage the pads." OK, but if they are turned, they will just rust again. Rotors rust when they are not used often, such as when a car is stored.
The rotors on my Forester have worn quite a bit, and the pads and rotors are quite expensive. The dealer quotes $180 per axle to replace pads and turn rotors, clean calipers, etc.
Independent shops will do this for less, often about half. But my expreience with some of the better known chains has not been good. Plus, the warranty that attracts most people is really not much. They will install a new set of pads if yours wear out during a short warranty period, typically 2 yrs, 24,000 miles. BUT, in order to get them to do that, you have to agree to whatever repairs they recommend. After all, your pads would not have worn prematurely unless there was something wrong with your vehicle! This gives them carte blanche to charge whatever they want to install your "free" warranty pads. If you refuse their recommendations, they give you the pads and tell you to install them yourself or take then elsewhere.
Because of the long wear, it seems to me that it is better to pay the dealer more for the factory spec pads. However, I wonder if the dealer above isntalled something OTHER than genuine Subaru. I have seen this happen before.
I bought my '92 SVX in Sept with 71K miles, it now just turned 83K miles!
-mike
taft4: well, at least that explains the rough ride you were experiencing.
-juice
As far as exaggerating goes, I've kept a written record of every fill-up for the past 45,000 miles. I know that driving patterns and habits have a lot to do with your mileage. I'm on my 10th car and every one of them exceeded the EPA estimates by about 3 mpg with the Forester being no exception.
-Frank P.
YEP............2.5 XT !!!!!
2.5XT eh? Is that from the mouth of SoA?
The debut is 2pm today, can't wait!
-juice
Other details will follow at 2pm
-juice
I know ...#$@%# we have to wait another hour
Let's try to hack the Subaru site like they did before the WRX launch. ;-)
-juice
* 210hp and 235 lb-ft at a low 3600 rpm!
* AVCS and it's based on the STi engine!
* aluminum finish roof rails
* black side walls just for you Bob!
* body color door handles are new
* standard sport guage package
* Premium only with auto and black leather
* what's this Direct Control 4 speed auto? no Shiftronic I guess
* it keeps the Hill Holder
Sweetness!
-juice
Good stuff!
Getting weak...must hold out...must not test drive...UGH!
Brian
But the Forester 2.5XT will be a high volume model. The WRX was just a tad small, but the XT doesn't seem to have any such "deal killer" flaws.
Dang, I want one too now. I can't even let Sandy see the expression on my face!
-juice
The rims are nice, I like them better than the current alloys on the XS. 6 twin spokes. The black wall tires are just the ticket, they look sportier. I have black walls on my aftermarket rims.
Otherwise looks are similar. Monotone Silver is shown so you don't notice the aluminum finish roof rails.
The hood scoop is mellow, not as showy as the 2004 WRX's.
They picked my favorite color just to tempt me further!
-juice