Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
For clarity, do we know...
1) When was the last year this frame model was used in tacomas? (1995 - 2004?)
2) Are the 2005 and newer ones using a different design?
3) Is Dana the supplier of the original bad frames, or just the replacement ones?
4) Who makes the frames for 2005 - 2009 model run?
Thanks
-wsn
Again everybody has their own things that work for them, but Toyota's lack of communication (still no letter yet) and arogant attitude is what upset me.
As far as the loaner goes. Some people want 'their' trucks. This is not a 3 day deal, it will be many months. Also Toyota offers no insurance on their rental, that burden is also on you.
Toyota has also known about this for some time but has chosen 'saving face' in the media over alerting people asap as they are maybe riding around with loved ones in a potentialy structually unsafe (in crash) truck.
Again to each their own, but while it may work for you, the outlined points above, in my opinion, justify people's anger.
-wsn
that is an excellent way to put it..
They act as if they are doing us a favor. My rep (kevin) kept saying this was a good will decision for me because I have an 01 but got into the buyback program.
He kept saying it as if to shut me up because I was lucky to be getting a check instead of the frame. He kept saying how the "program" my truck fell into does not offer a buyback only a frame replacement. So I asked, Kevo, what would your answer be if we were having this conversation 6 months ago when there wasnt a "program" for the 01-04 trucks?. I got no answer.
I'm scheduled to get my check for my 2001 TRD in less than two hours.
it isnt a recall, im not sure how toyota got away with this not being a recall but they did. Maybe because they call it a "buy back" program and they "extend" the warranty on the frames.
In my experience, it didnt seem to matter if you were going to buy another toyota.
I had initially said that to the boston rep that came to look at my truck at the dealership and then when ISG called me with an offer I declined because I thought I should have got a little more. My case manager called me and basically said I was lucky and that this was a "good will" buy back.
As I mentioned before, he claims " we are not in the business of buying trucks back".
so that made my decision simple.
I wont ever give my money to toyota again.
As I said before, they act as if we are lucky they are even doing anything.
Also, think of this... Toyota had a 3rd party company manufacture these frames so you can only assume toyota is going after them as well so toyota will be compensated in some way so its not totally out of pocket for them.
My case:
My Tacoma was a 1999. I took it in for inspection in August, 2008.
I was told the program covered 1995-2000 Tacomas.
My Truck had enough rust that made it eligible for buyback.
But I didn't leave it at the dealer -even though one service guy tried to get me leave it - telling me it was a "safety" issue and it was dangerous. I told him I drove it to the dealer, I'm taking it and driving it while I wheel and deal with the Tacoma ISG Rep. They don't have any choice - it's your truck. You have the right to take it.
I FIRST drove it as much as I wanted;.
AFTER I settled with the Tacoma ISG rep, and he paid me, THEN I took Tacoma's loaner for 30 days. That way I took my time looking for a new vehicle.
How the extended 15 year warranty works:
My brother took in his 1998 at the same time I took in my 1999.
It didn't qualify for buyback - not enough rust. However, Dealer said Tacoma will extend, immediately the entire frame warranty for ALL TACOMAS, for
15 (fifteen) years from the date it was purchased new.
He bought his in December 98, so he can breing it back, once a year, until December 2013 and have it checked for rust, and if enough rust shows up on it, that is eligible for buyback. I don't see how they can't extend the warranty for 2001's, 2002's 2003's etc. if rust remains a problem.
I would sit and wait and drive it sparingly and try to drive something else old until it's resolved. I wouldn't spend $ 2,000 or $ 3,000 on it until I found out about Toyota covering it ean,ezn1o
But, like you guys, I have no idea when the "kits" will be available, what my "kit" will include as all models will have different "kits" according to Kevin. When the dealership could expect my "kit" to arrive, or how long it would take once my "kit" got there. Sounds like they're building a model truck or something. He did mention leaf springs, but that's it, and even those he didn't seem too sure about.
I mentioned the absence of any formal acknowledgment from Toyota corp that there are frame rot issues with their Tacomas. The way I see it, regardless of how they're treating us who are aware we have a problem, the fact that they seem to be in no rush to let others know they might be putting themselves and their families in harm's way is frightening and disgusting. Is the corporate logic so far advanced that they will refuse to issue a recall and cross their fingers that noone is killed in a Tacoma due to frame failure while this little mess is being swept under the carpet by keeping us quiet by replacing our frames? It's downright scary when you think of it like that.
Kevin said that a formal letter was being sent out, but in "waves", that these mass mailings "take a lot of time" to get off the ground. Chalk that one up to bull, I've seen a backwoods secretary priority mail a thousand envelopes in under an hour. Don't tell me a corporate monster like Toyota can't do the same. Kevin told me even though I had opened a case that I would receive a letter. He even says it could take months, and that I could very well have my truck back from the dealership by the time the letter arrives. Gee, that makes me feel a lot better, and all the parents driving around with their kids in the back should do so in blissful ignorance and as long as it doesn't affect corporate earnings, right?!
All right ... off that soapbox for the moment and on to another one: A complete dissatisfaction with the NEW Toyotas.
I love my 2001. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin' ... until a serious frame issue pops up, but that's beside the point. I've been tooling around in a dealership provided 2008 Highlander until last Thursday. Kind of like a luxurious schoolbus ... handles about the same too. Anyway, the windshield wiper fluid light comes on. Pulled over, got a gallon and poured it in the resevoir ... and kept pouring. Turns out the resevoir is busted and fluid is pouring all over the concrete. Huh? Call the dealership and trade the Highlander rental for a 2009 Tacoma. By the time I get home, there is a message on my answering machine demanding a call back right away. The rental agent says the service department has looked at the Highlander and determined that I must have struck something as the interior bumper plates are pushed back and that's what crushed the windshield wiper fluid resevoir. Huh?! She said that the techs have seen it a lot this winter and I must have struck a snow bank. According to the techs the snowbanks are especially hard this year. WTF?! Long story short, I owe them $395 for damages incurred while in my possession, even though I think I'd remember if I smacked a snowbank, don't you? And that leads me to my initial rant about the new Toyotas. Are they that fragile that I might have crushed the front bumper supports and wiper fluid tank by simply parking the car into a snow bank? If I Dukes of Hazzarded it into the parking lot, I might understand, but the idea that a brand new vehicle can be messed right up with something I could probably inflict with my fist is really pathetic. So now I got this 2009 Tacoma and I'm scared to death to drive it in fear that it might suddenly incur some random damage I'll be held responsible for.
Uggghhh. Fixing up that old Ford truck out behind the garage is starting to look more and more inviting. Toyota has pissed in my shoes too many times in the last month.
This is the other reason I worked a trade-in deal with my dealer.
Having their rental is a liability, and can become an extra expense in this already nightmare-ish problem.
If you can and it's in the cards for you, get your dealer to take yours in trade @ kbb trade value (as if the frame problem did not exist) and then take it to buy an aggressively discounted new car from them.
You do sadly get a new payment, but you also get a new car, and the nightmare goes away. They also get a 'sale' at a time when they need them and Corp will pay for frame work (not the dealer).
It worked for me. Didn't want a payment, but more so didn't want the nightmare to last another 6 months... or longer.
However, I think it might be in my best interests to take a spin around there used lot and see if there is something that might work as a trade. Even if they offered me top KBB for my Taco, that's not saying a whole lot since the value has plummeted recently.
I'd like to get a truck back. Not a TOY that breaks if it's sneezed on wrong. I use my truck, it's not just for looks.
why buy another toyota after this run around and blatant disregard for your safety.
I will never buy a toyota again and not because of the quality, [non-permissible content removed] happens,
but the way they are treating people sux.
further more, trade in your taco now for nothing, the dealership will get the frame paid for the same way and turn around and sell it for much more and tell the buyer " dont worry about the frame problem you heard of sir, this has a new frame with a 15 year warranty.."
DONT GIVE EM UR MONEY..
u want a truck ? buy a ridgeline.. look at consumer reports.. it got awesome accross the board
I wanted a Tacoma ever since I saw Back to the Future. No joke. Finally got mine and spent a lot of happy years driving it and telling everyone I know how great and dependable and reliable they are. And now this?
Dont misunderstand, when I get another truck, it will NOT be a Toyota.
In the end I think Corp is jerking the dealers around just as much.
I was also skeptical of a new Tacoma but this is all my dealer sells.
One may have better luck at a multivendor dealer.
Just thinking out loud.
FWIW: It has been six weeks and still no letter and I know my old 02 is still just sitting there.
doublesn,
you are not obligated to buy a truck from the dealer your getting yours "fixed" at.
so go to another dealer after yours get fixed.
Odds are ( i assume) the new tacoma's will not have the same frame problem but this is a matter of morals.
I didn't wanna wait 3-6 months for this to happen, I didn't want the rental liability, and mostly didn't want the hassle of waiting.
I agree I am gambling, but the dealer now owns the problem, and I can walk away per se.
I got a trade number from the dealer a few days before my frame problem was discovered (I like to keep up on what things are worth). They honored this number in my 09 deal, and also heavily discounted their 09.
Everybody has different situations. If I had the time and my cal was clearer I would have waited it out, but it was not the case.
Some here have the time, some don't want the hassle, some want anything but Toyota, some wanna keep their truck, just have to go with what works best for you.
What I did was the best version of walking away I could get, and I needed to do that.
Cheers
-wsn
I have since purchased a 2002 Tacoma regular cab for very short money. Going into this knowing about frame replacements, I can't complain and actually look forward to having new suspension done when the frame finally goes. It just sucks to lose your truck that you thought you would have forever, not so bad when you keep in mind the frame warranty while buying used. If it was a low milage or decent shape truck, I'd complain, but for a used vehicle with 116k on it, free leaf springs/frame/suspension/etc is pretty decent. Think i'll have them do my clutch while they are in there.
I have until 2017 for the 2002, so far the frame is solid.
Yikes......i dont even need the e- brake ( mine is frozen).
I am going to have my local mechanic do all of this for1/2 the price........kind of a bummer to see the greed coming from Toyota..........Hey, how did 01' people get the buy out and not the 02? Should i hound Kevin on this?
Hi, I have a 2001 Tacoma. I appreciate the buyback program you offered for the earlier models. I'm sure your sales of 09 tacomas increased because of it. My problem is that I do not officially qualify for the buyback even though I have the EXACT same symptoms/problems. I know about the frame replacement but I did not buy my tacoma to have its frame swapped out. This is unheard of. What I need clarification on is the reason as to why some 2001 tacoma owners are getting buyback at %100, some at %150, and some don't even get offered the buyback, and yet again, some are told their trucks don't qualify for any program at all, and are left to drive their unsafe, uninspectible trucks away empty handed due to no fault of their own. It can't be the dealers deciding to buyback certain 2001's because if they are not officialy included in the buyback then TOYOTA corporation would not reimburse them. So in my mind I believe that TOYOTA CORP has given them instructions to buyback certain 2001 models. If this is the case then it is discrimination against 2001 owners and it should be made officical that all 2001's are eligible for buyback. Please let me know what is going on here. I am too scared to even bring my truck to the dealer yet because I am afraid of what the outcome will be and my option for repair, if any at all. Please get back to me ASAP.
Let's see how long and what kind of response I get back.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought they bought a 300,000 mile vehicle of impecable reliability. I never would have believed the frame would do it in. You can bet that with any truck I buy in the future, I'll keep the frame well washed and painted. Trial by fire. We'll always carry these scars caused by Toyota.
Dear Mr. --------,
Thank you for your most recent correspondence.
We would like to take this opportunity to explain that Toyota has received isolated reports regarding a small number of 1995 through 2000 model year Tacoma vehicles exhibiting excessive rust corrosion to the frame causing perforation of the metal. Only certain 1995 through 2000 model year Tacoma vehicles, produced in North America between January 1995 and September 2000, are eligible. Although we will continue to monitor the later model years, we have not seen any pattern of rust incidence in 2001 to 2004 model year vehicles that is unusual for this age range.
It is important to remember that this condition is unrelated to and separate from normal surface rust which is commonly found on metallic surfaces after some years of usage and/or exposure to the environment. However, if you notice perforation of the frame and/or large amounts of rust that flake off the vehicle, we suggest you contact a Toyota dealership of your choice in order to have your vehicle inspected.
Thank you once again for taking the time to write.
Sincerely,
Nikki Cornell
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.
Here’s what mine looks like.
http://tinyurl.com/tacomaframe
Got the check yesterday, which was pretty much exactly 150% of KBB by my calculating, and my local dealer was extremely helpful throughout the process, making sure I had a nice new Camry to drive while the process played out.
Took delivery of my '09 Taco the week before turning over the title to the old one. This is my second Taco and fourth Toyota truck, and this problem aside, they're just hard to beat. I too had planned to keep my '01 for at least two or three more years, and wasn't planning on having payments again this soon, but I think the treatment I received was more than fair.
I am "in the system" as of approximately two months ago. I took my Taco in for the 90k maint. and found out then that I had the frame perforation issue. At that point the dealer placed me into the buy-back program.
Since that point, I have been surfing all the blogs and forums and communicating directly with my dealer weekly. I have read many conversations regarding the newer vehicles and questions surrounding the buyback and how much they might get or have gotten some dollar amount for their vehicles.
Approximately three weeks ago, my dealer informed me that I (my situation) would not be participating in the buyback plan, but would instead be eligible for the "frame rework" plan. This was after the dealer took about 40 pictures of the Taco and sent them to the district manager. After another week I found that I would not be participating in a rework plan but that I would be participating in a rebuild plan.
Subsequent conversations have revealed that Toyota is responding to the newer owners (2001-2004) by 1)If their vehicles are not in good enough shape overall (Not sure what the specific requirements of this are), then a buy-back might be possible, but unlikely. 2)Some vehicles (frames) could be "rvamped". Highly unlikely as the liability associated with revamping a questionable frame structure would carry too high of a liability in my opinion for a large company as Toyota to deal with. 3)If their vehicles are considered of a high level of good condition, they are seriously considering a "re-build" which means Toyota will perform a complete ground up new frame on restore.
This now appears to be the case for me. Last week I spoke with my dealer and they stated that they in process of putting together the "parts list" for the rebuild. This means the new frame, all A325 bolts (high strength), bushings, isolators and possibly the leaf springs as they deem necessary.
To date, this is all I know. I have generated a list of questions that will need to be answered and a "punch list" of items that I feel they should consider part of the rebuild. And I naturally plan on doing some "refeshing" on my own.
Like- Body & bed checked for rust- treated with rust inhibitor and undercoated as needed. There will be more added to this list as I find out what Toyota is not including on their list.
Right now, I'm staying in close contact with my dealer and my body guy in case I need him for some "tweaking".
Hope this answers some of your questions.
MobiKobE
If you really like your '01 Taco and don't see them
a. buying it back;
b. giving you much of a trade-in, then
I suppose rust-inhibitor would be a good idea. I would be kind of susicious if they were applying what they call "rustproofing" to an 8 yr. old Taco.
I had a '99 and it had enough rust for the buyback program, even though I didn't think it had much.
I have a brother who rust-proofed the h*** out of his '98 Taco when it was brand new and he has "no hint" of rust on his, hence, his did not qualify for buyback.
Tim Cincy
right now toyota is saying 2001 - 2004 and I bet that is only because owners complained. whos to know if it affects 05,06,07 ? they may be too new to see
any rot problems.
I asked toyota if they knew for a fact when the frames were manufactured correctly and they wouldnt answer me.,
It failed an independent state safety inspection last week. I then took it to the local dealer where I purchased it new. He inspected it and stated that it was "UNSAFE TO DRIVE". I can see why. The picture is only a sample of the terrible condition of the frame. This dealer is gearing up specifically for a lot of frame replacements. I am told they anticipate doing about six a month for some indefinite period. They start their first one tomorrow. I will be the second one behind that. I don't like being a guinea pig but I guess it's better to be second than first. It is very unclear to me just how much this is going to cost me out-of-pocket. The dealer seems to be saying that ONLY the frame itself is included in the deal. That leaves a lot of other parts up in the air. Surely there will be some that have to be replaced that otherwise would not be, simply because they will have to be destroyed during removal. Anyway, I'm playing it by ear right now. I expect to be called sometime during the next two weeks for my frame replacement. There is no buy-back option. I was told my only choices are frame replacement or trade.
I like my 09 and am glad to be rid of the frame nightmare.
Whoever moved the clock in the post 05 tacomas ( I had a 98 and an 02) ... thank you :-)
I also always had SR5's and the TRD shocks make frost heaves (new england) much easier to deal with.
Still feels weird having an ebrake on the floor.
There I am in showroom 15 min later quietly reading a book - Svc Mgr comes over and sits down next to me. - He: "Have you heard about our 2001 - 2004 frame replacement program?" Me: "No". Goes on to briefly explian that I have a rusted frame - that they found a 1 1/2" hole etc and that they will "replace the frame". Me: "Wow - that's a lot of work!"
Apparently I am the first at this dealership - so my Taco will be their "Guinea Pig"!
They gave me a 4x4 2009 Taco Access Cab loaner/rental - very nice but I am obviously spoiled with the room / access of the Double Cab.
Svc Mgr said it would take 2 - 3 weeks - and that they would call me w/ update on frame work - also would call due fact loaner had under 1K mi and I should not go over 4K (assume so they can sell as a demo) - maybe then swap out loaner.
No word as of today. My Taco also has a badly rusted rear bumper (started 2 yrs ago) - thru painted surface every few inches (assume at mountings) - and rust is starting to perforate / show on the tailgate (4 - 5" area lower right corner).
SO - my questions (4):
1) Do any of you have new info - has anyone's Taco frame been worked yet?
2) Seems to me that ANYTHING however connected to the rusted frame should be part of the deal is rusted beyond solid/safe attachment capability - brackets / body pan / rocker panels / fenders etc? If I am not presented with a ZERO-$ repair bill I will "pitch a fit", to say the least.
3) Should I seek to get the rear bumper and tailgate replaced as part of the deal - for "Goodwill"? They should have gone rust-free to at least 150/200K mi, yes?
4) W/ ref to #3, guess the possibility of getting a "Rattletrap" back from the so-far-untested frame replacement process is fairly high (no rattles/squeaks on my Taco so far), so all the more reason to press for some addl "Goodwill", yes?
PS: I have not yet contacted Toyota Corp/Cust Svc, as after reading this forum my problem seems clear - no buy-back offered on 2002 etc- dealing only w/ dealer on their frame replacement option.
Thanks, all!
in other words, they should replace anything connected to that frame that is rotted.
Very Funny, that comment about "parked even close"! - Believe you mentioned in previous post(s) that you are in the Albany area? Hey, maybe our Tacos "traded rust" last year while parked in adjacent spaces in the Crossgates Mall? --- Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!
My Taco apparently spent the first 67K miles of it's life running back & forth on I-88 - beautiful condition when I bought it 10/04.
Nov 08 I heard an exhaust noise - crawled under and found a split on muffler seam - OK I can deal w/ that (probably original) - replaced all from Cat back for $390 local shop.
At the same time I did notice a HELL OF A LOT OF RUST ON THE FRAME AND ANYTHING CONNECTED TO IT. But then I am not an expert on frames/rust - no knowledge/notice until dealer advised me during the 01/09 oil service appointment.
To date have received no letter/notice from Toyota re the frame problem. No, I am not the orig owner, but servicing dealer database should have generated the letter, yes?
So much for customer communications...
You're zeroing in the biggest issue with this frame replacement - "the zero $ repair bill".
Now do you really believe that they aren't going to break things and try to backcharge you, as what broke wasn't part of the original frame kit? Us Tacoma owners being charged for stuff that breaks during this frame replacement or immediately after the frame replacement is my biggest fear. I simply don't have the money to pay for all the rusted incidental stuff that broke during the frame replacement or fails soon after due to be thrashed on. Come on. You know Toyota and their dealers. You WILL be charged for some of the incidental stuff that breaks and to me that is unacceptable, as that stuff wouldn't have broken if I wasn't forced into this frame replacement.
Toyota is NOT going to warranty stuff that breaks soon after the frame replacement. For instance, I fully expect my entire exhaust system to fail after the frame replacement, because once you disturb something like the exhaust, the subsequent failures are like dominoes. Toyota is NOT going to fix for free all that ratty stuff that pops up after the frame replacement.
Because of the sad reality of this out of pocket cost to us owners, that's why I say that high buyback is the only acceptable option.
This is why I think the ultimate answer is to force Toyota to do the right thing - easier said than done. My state AG blew me off with a form letter, refering to this Tacoma debacle, as this "matter". My US Rep is supposedly pursuing this "matter". Somehow, someone of authority, needs to force a mandatory recall of this truck. It's hard to get past the fill in the forms to a live person who is actually willing to carry the torch.
I'm taking the approach that I'm entirely on my own. I need to do everything I can to make this frame last. I need to keep the salt washed off, keep the exterior painted, and keep the interior of the frame covered in oil. Toyota is not likely to solve all my problems for free, even if they played a part in most of them.
I would highly recommend what others have done - write and call everyone you can to complain. NHTSB, state consumer protection board, attorney general, etc. Seems quite coincidental that a few days after I received a letter from my state consumer board indicating they had sent a letter to Toyota corporate the parts suddenly became available. Most be just one of those coincidences.
I am not confident that the truck will ever be the same but am stuck. My regular mechanics will check it out after I get it back to let me know what's what. Hope all works out well but ...........
Please let us know how things turn out.