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Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
Well while I was away from edmunds for a few weeks I didn't totally give up on cars. When I did a little research on the models at the New York Autoshow, I ran across this hot looking Hyundai.

When I examined the details I scratched my head and said WOW ! :surprise: Hyundai, might of just hit the Jackpot. It sure looks great on paper ;)

So I think it's very important to start discussing one of the most important launches in Automotive History. If this car is a winner, it could send shock waves around the globe. One could buy a Lexus at Toyota, prices has been quoted.

I as a very loyal GM, fan love the design of this future great automobile. I look at it as the Cadillac STS, I always wanted and getting it for a Pontiac Bonneville Price ;)

Rocky
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Comments

  • Hey rocky!

    Long time coming... I haven't posted here in a while, but it seems things have been pretty busy at hyundai. I, too, like the concept car Genesis. It does resemble the Toyota Camry in a way, but it's more luxurious. I also like the front end of the new concept opened at Seoul. I forgot what it was called, but it totally looks like the future of the Tiburon. If the front end looks anything like it, I'm totally buying it!

    Anyhow, hope to hear from a potential hyundai fan/customer...lol.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Well kingslamon, we will see if the "on-paper" is as good as it is in person. ;)

    I as a GM, fan am terrified of this vehicle. I think Toyota, is fearful also. A Luxury Vehicle with a powerful refined RWD V8 at Toyota Camry prices is something we could predict but always wonder when ? Well it will be here in a few years and it will be interesting to see how the market reacts. Will car prices have to drop ? Can the manufactors using more expensive labor afford to drop MSRP's ? Hyundai, is using not only inexpensive South Korean, labor but they also buying inexpensive parts to manufactor this vehicle. Will it be "Toyota" like in the Luxury department or will it have content that is also found on Lexus class of vehicles ? If they can give it above average gadgetology aka creature features then this car will steal lots of sales from a lot of segments that want to upgrade without having to pay the high stickers !!!!!!

    Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    A dog and a cat who just got married riding on the back of a flying pig. ;) That's only slightly more common than Rocky drooling over a Hyundai. :P

    Anyway, the Genesis is set to be the second coming of the LS400. Big, luxurious, powerful, and light on the wallet. The BH (the platform code) is already the size of a BMW 7-series, and there's an even larger version (VI) in the works.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,603
    Looks like a pretty good car that Hyundai is coming out with. RWD 300+ HP and large for a reasonable price. This thing just might be a hit. My guess is that there are enough people that like the luxury but don't want to pay for a name to make this work.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    A dog and a cat who just got married riding on the back of a flying pig. That's only slightly more common than Rocky drooling over a Hyundai.

    Yes bumpy, I am drooling over this Hyuyndai. The Veracruz looks to be about as nice. It's a poor mans Lexus, and if I wasn't so prejudice about buying a foreign car I would line up for one (Genesis) in the near future. ;)

    Anyway, the Genesis is set to be the second coming of the LS400. Big, luxurious, powerful, and light on the wallet. The BH (the platform code) is already the size of a BMW 7-series, and there's an even larger version (VI) in the works.

    It's going to kick the snot out of all luxury cars in my estimation. I did not know the platform could stretch to those siszes. I still think Hyundai, should offer the Delphi Magneride suspension as a option on the "Limited-Ultimate" ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    snakeweasel, If it's enough to get me to like it that pretty much tells you they have a hit. I'm pretty picky and conservative on my car choices. You won't see my driving a Aztek, like vehicle ever. I like smooth lines.......

    Rocky
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    Rocky, I like this concept. But I don't think it will be anywhere close to Camry in terms of MSRP. As of now, Sonata is not much cheaper than Camry anyway.

    Let's say, Sonata is 5%~10% cheaper than Camry. Let Genesis be 5%~10% cheaper than the V8 RWD Toyota (LS460), subtract another 10% for not using an up-market brand name. That will still be at least $50,000 for the starting MSRP.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    What ????? Did you not watch the video on this car ? It won't even hit $40,000. Most estimates have a well loaded version "Limited" V8 being no higher than $35K

    The "Ultimate" Genesis is only expected to be in the upper $30K range if it's even that high. The 2008' Veracruz Limited-Ultimate package is the highest priced Hyundai, ever with a $37 and change MSRP. I don't expect the Genesis, Ultimate to be much if any more than that. ;)

    So $50K isn't going to happen unless they make a 7-series/S-Class competitor which as bumpy said could happen someday soon. ;)

    Rocky
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    In that case, the Genesis won't be anywhere close to LS460 in terms of performance and quality.

    After double checking, Hyundai is not a company owned by God himself. They cannot create a super luxury car out of thin air.

    The Sonata, being a 5% better value than the Camry, is already an achievement. The Genesis will be the same, 5% better value than a car of same quality.

    After all, being a 5% better value is all you need to capture a market. That's how Lexus beats the crap out the MB in North America.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Like I said I can't make absolute factual comments on a car that isn't out yet but on paper I think it's realistic to say one will beable to own a Cadillac STS/Lexus 460/Mercedes E-class/BMW 5 series, like mixture of vehicles for entry brand money.

    I don't know how you can justify saying that Hyundai, won't have a very competitive offering ? One of their targets was the BMW 5 series in handling. I'm not saying this thing will carve up roads like a Bimmer, but in should be able to equal what the Infinti M45 is able to do which also had the 5-series as a target.

    You also are forgetting the difference in labor rates. The South Koreans, aren't exactly making are wages levels thus they are able to keep those costs down helping them undercut the competition. They are essentially not going to make the margin of profit on having a luxury brand name but they will still make a good profit and give the customer one hell of a vehicle for his buck.

    I checked out the Sonata vs. Camry and it appears you are taking a loaded out Sonata and comparing it to a base Camry :confuse: A loaded out Camry can touch well into the $30K range something a Sonata, won't even come close to. ;)

    Rocky
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Hyundai is merely doing what Lexus did 20 some years ago: offer a luxury car to battle the entrenched and over-priced marques at a budget price. Hyundai is selling 90% of its Azera's in the Limited and Ultimate package option which puts that at about $30k.. so this things could just fly and fly off the floors fast.
    Naysayers are claiming 'noone is going to buy a luxury Hyundai' because it doesn't have the prestige factor. AND LEXUS HAD PRESTIGE WHEN IT ARRIVED." DID IN THE 80'S? No, it didn't. Lexus invented and marketed themselves and the segment was redefined. Remember the Lexus add that changed it all. "From Question Mark to Benchmark"
    Look, the market is totally ready for a newcomer to shake things up. Hyundai is the Cinderella story of the automotive world and we know people love those stories. Check out what the Washington Post said:

    "It is a threat to anyone making cars, economy or luxury."

    "It(Hyundai)can topple General Motors. It can upset Toyota. It already has bypassed Nissan and Honda in global vehicle sales. It is as determined as any company to rank No. 1 on the world's automotive stage."

    "Consider the matter of engineering. The Veracruz comes with an easy-breathing, 260-horsepower, 3.8-liter V-6. It uses regular unleaded fuel. The engine is linked to a remarkably smooth six-speed automatic transmission. The comparable RX350 comes with a 3.5-liter, 270-horsepower V-6 that requires premium unleaded fuel. That engine is linked to a five-speed automatic transmission. Put another way, the Veracruz is less expensive to operate than the RX350. But it's every bit as much fun to drive."

    "the 2007 Hyundai Veracruz Limited crossover utility vehicle, which easily runs against the likes of the excellent Lexus RX350 -- for thousands of dollars less."

    "In design and creature comforts, the Veracruz -- especially the fully loaded Limited edition -- is an undisputed winner. It has a longer, more elegantly sculpted body than the RX350. Inside and out, it simply looks better. Inside, it also feels better -- more spacious, less cramped than the RX350."

    Mark my words: Hyundai is going to shake things up BIG-TIME!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,603
    It's going to kick the snot out of all luxury cars in my estimation.

    It's going to hurt them but not kick the snot out of them. To many people want the name. You could sell a Yugo to many people if it only had a BMW, Benz or Lexus badge on it.

    What it will do is allow people who want the luxury but can't or don't want to spend the extra $10-15K on a name. Then once they get into a Hyundai they might just stay with it and deny the others future buyers.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    You have no disagreement from my side of the fence !!! ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I think snake, you will see a trend of buyers that need to rescue that 401K and make up those contributions but don't want to lose the feel of owning a Benz, Lexus, Caddy.

    That $10-15K savings can be as high as $20-$25K depending on what model you look at from the Elites.

    It will shake the automotive world up just like the Azera did only in a bigger way this time. ;)

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'll post pics of it later today. I was there, and this car is hot. As for them coming in cheap, there is a lot of profit built into those high-end cars because they can get it from their customers. Do you really think that a MB S600 costs over 100k to build/design, nope.

    Anyway RWD is hot!

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Yeah, I'd like to see them :)

    Rocky
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    At the risk of being a brownnoser, the host is right on the profit thing. The Elite marques don't even need to offer reliability or quality but just offer the perception and marketing of such. I recall a recent Car and Driver article which noted engine failure in several of their long-term tests of BMW's below 50,000 miles. People who buy a BMW don't care though because the perception of the marque is greater than the reality of its failures. Hyundai has the opposite: the reality of their quality and durability is less than the perception of its previous failures and therefore prevents many customers from experiencing just how good recent Hyundai's are.
    Our family was loaded up with Hyundai's at one time and had so few problems that we were shocked and amazed that people thought we were driving 'junk'. We were alomost evangelistic to try to tell others just how good they were. This is what many Hyundai owners experience, partly due to low expectations, and why Hyundais return customers % is rapidly rising above other brands.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,719
    Where is the Genesis going to be built? What percent will be US content?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Who cares what percent will be US content and where it will be built. As I say to all the folks out there who claim we need to buy american cars built here, I ask you, where are your clothes made? Guaranteed that they are not made here, and if they were they cost $500 for your outfit at the very least for a shirt and jeans.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    As for quality?

    My parents bought a Kia Optima 2 years ago, it's got 45k miles on it, zero problems. Paid $12k for it which included tax, tags, title, etc. I drove it and it was pretty darn good for a FWD 4-cylinder. Heck it's got projector headlights and manumatic shifting!

    Would I buy the optima they bought? Probably not because I like AWD or RWD cars, but, I have to say Hyundai and Kia are some of the best value cars out there.

    -mike
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    The 'Genesis' will most like be built in the worlds largest plant in Ulsan, South Korea.
    I read recently that Hyundai is already planning on 5 liter variants of the 4.6 and direct injection and twin turbo applications that will make the Genesis over 500hp from the plant! Not taking that serious? Noone is taking the Genesis as a serious contender to the BMW or Lexus but neither did they take Lexus serious either. By the way, for anyone who thinks this could not measure up, Hyundai has already spent 5 years on the development of this and they know it has to meet or exceed expectations..that is why they keep changing and revising this thing. Also, Hyundai has the money to throw into this because its their 'halo' car that will catapault them to new heights of brand recognition and sales.
    This one car could change everything when it arrives.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,719
    I don't think you read my context correctly.

    I'm interested because if it's built here, it will sell even better. If not built in US, if its content is parts built here, i.e., a motor, and assembled elsewhere, that's better for them.

    I don't know where Hyundai has plants and builds what currently that might become Genesis production plants. That's what I was asking.

    I didn't ask about clothing, TVs, shoes, etc, since that's off topic.

    As someone who shopped Sonatas recently, I find this an interesting upscale for Hyundai. The only item I really didn't like on the Sonata was the lower profile, larger diameter tires. I want the old-fashioned 16-inch 60 profile or taller tires for what I consider a better ride. Yes, I know I'm out-of-fashion on that one. Other than that the Sonata could get my dollar. The Azera might even make it as a LeSabre replacement.

    As Toyota loudly advertises its US plants building cars, I believe the Hyundai has an even better chance of giving Honda/Toyota a run if the car is built in US or has a good content. I am in favor of Hyundai making a competitive car for competition with the cache the other two have built.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Sorry for that, I was verbally attacked by a Ford representative yesterday at NYIAS as to the fact that I drive a Nissan and that I'm hurting American workers etc and that Ford is supporting them etc. It irritated me that she couldn't see the fact that I'm going to buy whatever is the best product for my money. Hence the clothing reference because it's the same analogy of buying them from overseas due to the price/value being significantly higher than domestically produced goods.

    -mike
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,603
    In that case, the Genesis won't be anywhere close to LS460 in terms of performance and quality.

    It is possible to come close, and even exceed, performance and quality for less money. Cost does not always equate to performance and quality.

    But then again we are discussing a car that hasn't been produced yet. When we can touch and feel the real thing we can talk more on this.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,603
    Naysayers are claiming 'noone is going to buy a luxury Hyundai' because it doesn't have the prestige factor.

    I don't think Hyundai needs the prestige factor, its going to battle it out on price. There is a significant number of people who will buy it simply because it offers everything the other luxury cars offer (we are presuming) at a much lower cost. It has worked for Hyundai in the past.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Fords and Chev's built in Mexico, Honda's and Toyota's built in Canada, Hyundais and Benz's built in Alabama, BMW's built in South Carolina. When are people going to realize that we are living in a global community whose borders are being torn down daily. Either you accept this and learn to grow with it or you'll be like the record industry who lost 20% of its market last year, and even more this year, because they refuse to accept that music lovers wanted to download songs and not buy their whole albums. Welcome to an ever-changing Global community that doesn't care about your traditions or allegiances. Wake-up!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Thanks prosource, at least someone is sane on the global economy thing! :)

    -mike
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I don't know where Hyundai has plants and builds what currently that might become Genesis production plants.

    The Genesis (or whatever Hyundai decides to call the production version) will be built in Korea since it requires an entirely new production line, and being the halo car they would want to keep the engineering and production close at hand. There is some talk of setting up an Azera production line at the Hyundai plant in Alabama around 2009 (they build Sonatas and Santa Fes now).
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    I wanted to add one thing about the Hyundai offering the Genesis:

    -Hyundai should have offered the Genesis at next years Detroit or NY Auto show which would have sent shockwaves thru their competitors. Now its not a secret and...

    -I'm guessing that Hyundai's competitors will not sit by and let an upstart like Hyundai trump them. That is a fact and is the basis for competition.

    -I'm guessing that Lexus, Acura and others will seek to offer an equivalent or better car for at least an equivalent price

    -I know that the consumer is going to be able to get more car for less money once Hyundai seeks to enter this market.
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Do you all think Hyundai will take an outfitted variant of the Veracruz, the I30 or Velostar, Azera, Genesis concept and develop a luxury line out of them. Hyundai has a number of concepts in the pipeline and has the production capability with new plants coming on-line to be able to put together a luxury bran with a new name. What do you think? Imagine how much of a shake up it would be if Hyundai showed up in 2008 with a 4 vehicle line-up that was $10-$25k cheaper than anything Lexus or others offered. Hyundai is really going after Toyota/Lexus so I would bet you would see a vehicle line-up to mimic that brand:

    Lexus Offering Hyundai Offering

    IS250/350 Variant of I30, Velostar comcept or C'eed
    GS 350 Azera variant w/new suspension;sh'tmetal
    RX 350 Veracruz variant
    Lexus LS 460 Hyundai I70 (Genesis Concept)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    This is the best forum on edmunds, right now. Lots of good posts.

    Well I do guys think it's a good idea to try to buy american, but when Ford, is building cars like they built my Detroit Lions team for the last 5 or 6 decades the consumers get tired. GM, has pushed the brand I love "Cadillac" to prices that people making my middle class wages can't afford them even if they save.

    Ya know what imidazol97, that surprises me you were shopping a Sonata. :surprise: Well the same can be said about me with looking at this Genesis. I'm getting pissed that the big 3 are bringing a lot of their new cars from Australia, or like the new Saturns will be built in Mexico, like the Astra.

    Perhaps maybe you and I should be like everyone else and say screw it and buy what's best for our wallet as cars are getting way to expensive even though they have cut production costs by more than 60% in the last decade to decade and a half with out sourcing. I do try to buy american made clothes, shoes, etc, but cars are going up faster than my raises. The Genesis, will be on my radar when it comes out and so will the EVO-X. The Caddy STS will be out of reach cuz GM, hasn't ran any specials on the V8's as far as leases go. Ford, at least does this time to time to move these expensive cars. My GM, discount will not eat enough lease cost to make one afordable. I can lease a Navigator Limited for the same money $150-$200 a month cheaper as an example than a STS and I will save $7K on a STS with my discount. I checked into it on a 05' when they came out. It was $780 a month with my GM, discount. I assume my 09' CTS-V will run around $60K so that is out of the question probably also and knowing GM, I will have to wait months for them to offer GM employee elgible people a discount like they did when the first CTS-V came out I was looking into. That's when I bought the 1 yr. old 02' Seville STS. ;)

    So just maybe a Genesis, will fit the bill. We will see. I do like iluv's Lancer, thus I will have to check out those EVO's also. :shades:

    Rocky
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    Hyundai needs a new luxury division called Genesis badly. Current Hyundai dealerships are still upset Hyundai isn't making $8000 cars for their poor customers. They have no clue about how to sell a luxury car and their customers can't afford it. Just the name Hyundai is one of the worst, hard to pronounce, and offputting names for a company in the English language. Hyundai owners are going to have to say "hyundai" a lot in their daily life, many if not most people don't even know how to pronounce it and wouldn't want to if they could. And Equus?? Genesis is an ideal name and isn't a made up cheesy word like Acura, Infiniti, or Lexus.

    Seriously, Kia sounds cool but if I was Hyundai I would consider changing the name of the whole brand just like Datsun became Nissan years ago. And tell whoever's planning on selling Ssangyong cars from Korea to stop smoking crack, one S might be doable but 2?? Hyundai dealers claim they can't even give away Azeras now that Hyundai stopped advertising it. Nobody's going to want to buy a Hyundai costing $35-40,000 with options. I know I wouldn't want it because of the hard to pronounce and unpleasant "Hyundai" name alone.

    Instead of calling it the Hyundai Genesis, it should be the first car in a new luxury Genesis division and be called simply the Genesis M luxury performance sedan. The different engines would be distinguished as the Genesis M 4.6 or Genesis M 3.8. The number denoting engine size wouldn't be officially part of the name much like the Audi A4 3.2 or 1.8 or whatever is still called just the A4. The Genesis name would be centered between the taillights, "M" would be above the left taillight, and 4.6 above the right taillight. A lot of people would consider buying an AWD loaded Genesis M 4.6 since it's basically an LS460 or next generation M45 for less than the price of an ES350 or G35. Reshape the M's Camry-like grill and come up with daring designs in the future, hire some Italians.

    Future Genesis models could include the S for a smallish sports sedan to compete against ES350, G35, BMW 3, etc. An even smaller R sedan might not be necessary but could compete against the IS250, BMW 3, Audi A, etc. A large L sedan could compete against Lexus 600hL, BMW 760iL, Mercedes S class, etc. G coupe and C convertible hardtop and maybe B hardtop roadster could appeal to sports luxury buyers.

    A Genesis X crossover SUV should be sold immediately alongside M as a rebadged and slightly restyled Veracruz with additional luxury features like real wood trim, navigation system, etc. Potentially a real offroading trucklike SUV could be sold as a V class or they could use V as the name for the 2010 Portico large minivan/SUV.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    They need to build up Kia's rep to Toyota, level of reputation and make Hyundai, the luxury brand like Lexus IMHO. I think the 2 brand idea that Honda and Toyota has works best in this global economy. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    So you find it hard to say "Hyundai" :confuse: It comes off my tongue quite easy. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    So what you are really saying is these guys are S.O.L. ;)

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yeah let's dumb things down because people can't pronounce Hyundai. Perhaps we should pass a law to not use words over 4 letters long too? haaaaa That's the funniest thing I've ever seen.

    -mike

    PS: Pics coming up.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    ROTFLMAO :D

    Paisan, maybe this helps explain why america, is behind the rest of the world in education. Well K-12 anyways. ;)

    I'm looking forward to those pics :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Mike,

    Thanx for the pic. That's a good one. G35 from the front and the rear pics I've saw say BMW Bangle like Butt ;)

    Rocky
  • nycdc911nycdc911 Posts: 27
    Potentially thinking about changing the Hyundai name wasn't my main point, creating a new luxury division called Genesis is the major issue. If you were a luxury car buyer would you rather own a Hyundai knowing their cheap reputation or a new Genesis luxury sedan?
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'm a trader on wall street and rub elbows with the folks buying luxury cars. BMW/MB, guess what? They won't buy it period, no matter what name you put under it. Heck Infiniti and Lexus BARELY are accepted at the country clubs these days. I think Hyundai would go a lot further w/o creating a phony "luxury" company and just continue to give people good value for their money, which in this case would be upscale ammenties and looks at a rock bottom price. That's what attracted folks to Hyundai in the first place and what they should continue to be rooted in.

    I'd be first in line to buy one of these suckers. Heck I'd signup for an AWD Sonata if it came out!

    -mike
  • gpkgpk Posts: 38
    I think that this car is going to benefit all consumers. Hyundai is sending a message and in the end its a win win situation for all consumers. I am a Honda fan I have owned 4 and usually get a lot of life out of them. What I see is that Hyundai forces T/H/N and the rest to really pump out the best product that they can. This might force honda to redo the Acura RL and come out with a V-8/10. Everyone see's whats happening to the big 3 so if T/H/N do not want to walk down the american auto industry path they will take notice. This car is BIG for the entire auto industry(except the European's). Like I said this is BIG and VERY GOOD for all of us... :)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I wonder when honda will figure things out about RWD and V8s, I remember reading where they basically have no desire to put out a V8 or a RWD car and pretty much feel that FWD and V6 is the be-all end all. Although there is the s2000 and NSX which aren't in that area.

    -mike
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Yup - change the name. Hyundai has a stigma. And the name looks weird too.

    How about Masters? Or Callaway? Or Grand Slam?
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Rocky, I like this concept. But I don't think it will be anywhere close to Camry in terms of MSRP. As of now, Sonata is not much cheaper than Camry anyway.

    Let's say, Sonata is 5%~10% cheaper than Camry. Let Genesis be 5%~10% cheaper than the V8 RWD Toyota (LS460), subtract another 10% for not using an up-market brand name. That will still be at least $50,000 for the starting MSRP.


    1) It's not meant to compete with the Camry. As noted, the Sonata is.

    2) The BH (codename, no official name has been given yet) will likely start under $30K in the US, with the V8 version estimated at low-to-mid 30s range.

    3) Feature-wise, what you see is what you get. I've been told everything listed in the PR would be available on the production model next year (e.g. Nav, Xenon). Also, Hyundai will likely become to first non-luxury nameplate to offer HD radio.

    4) Good news for the power fans - the V8 will put out a lot more than 300 horses, Hyundai has always estimated conservatively. Upwards of 340 or more is possibly a slightly precise estimate.

    5) Few changes in the front and the rear, otherwise, this is the car coming to the showroom next year.

    6) MSRP and comparably speaking, the Sonata is a good 10%-20% cheaper, depending on trims, packages and options.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If the Genesis is supposed to start "well under" $30k (V6 version), what happens to Axera? Is this Azera's replacement?

    If the V6 Genesis is in the high $20's, the V8 would be $5-7k more? Around 33-35k?

    I don't have a problem with Hyundai building a luxury marque. If they are meeting/exceeding sales goals for the former XG350/Azera, then go for it.

    Genesis is a better name for a company than a car.

    They will DEFINITELY need another vehicle to start a marque with. I'd build a coupe. ;)

    Personally, I'd get people comfortable with considering Hyundai as a 1st-rate full-line marque, which most people haven't realized yet. I don't see what the rush is? :confuse:

    But now might be the time to pounce! Acura continues to struggle, and Infiniti is working on a very slow upswing. Lincoln is all but dead. Audi isn't setting the world on fire, after countless opportunities.

    I think they're getting ahead of themselves, and should wait until the Fall of 2010, at the earliest.

    And I agree, producing a couple of studly models for the NAIAS, and announcing in the Fall a new brand will emerge is definitely the way to do this, as Lexus did.

    If Lexus writes a book, you should tear out a page or two, no? :blush:

    DrFill
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    I 100 % agree with your take. I, like you care about the product. A badge is for people who are so insecure they need somebody's name tag taped to their [non-permissible content removed] to give them a self confidence boost. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Very good for the consumer, with a career not in the Japanese/Domestic automobile industry. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,994
    Genesis is sort like going from GS to LS in Lexus. The Azera, for now will be the GS, and the Genesis, will be the LS. I don't know exactly what the future plans are for Hyundai, but the Genesis, appears to be a hit. I'd like to see Hyundai, spice up the Azera, by going with a AWD system. The way it looks I feel confident these people know what they are doing. ;)

    Rocky
  • gpkgpk Posts: 38
    I wonder when honda will figure things out about RWD and V8s

    Rumor has it that the next Acura RL will have both. Honda has been famous for doing more with less but I digress. No I feel that Hyundai is good for everyone involved in the auto industry. Will the Genesis be the end all? Thats irrelevant. The point is just the car itself forces Honda into RWD v-8 scene and for me that is a good thing.
    Content wise that is good for all consumers. As far as the domestics I wonder what if anything can save them? You kinda have to stop shooting yourself in the foot like GM and Ford are famous for. Chrysler is at last rites along with mitsubishi. I remember reading in The Wall Street Journal that Toyota/Honda/Hyundai/Nissan RD departments are huge compared to GM/F/C. That says a lot right there as well.
    You cannot remain competitive in the auto industry by sitting still. The only segment where they try to compete is in huge SUV's and Full size truck segment. Which is losing them market share and not really helping them at all.

    In the town where I live the amount of Hyundai and Kia's on the road is constantly increasing.
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