Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

snakeweasel · April 2007

I really don't think Hyundai is currently interested in building a new marque. Hyundai is building a name for building a high quality, high content car for less and its working for them. I feel that they will continue with this strategy. Building a new luxury marque will go against that strategy as one builds the name as a status symbol.

If Hyundai creates a luxury marque it won't be for some time.

rockylee · April 2007

I as you know would 100% agree with your perspective.

I think in a decade or so the Hyundai, name could be mentioned in the same breath as Lexus, and Kia, could build a reputation to be mentioned in the same breath as Toyota.

Rocky

snakeweasel · April 2007

Are you saying that there will be a slow shift of Hyundai going more and more upscale and Kia becoming more and more like Hyundai. That in the future Kia will be all low and mid level cars like Hyundai is now and Hyundai would be high end cars?

Possible.

rockylee · April 2007

Well sort of. I still think Kia, will make very inexpensive cars on the cheap but at the same time they will stretch into where Hyundai, is now (someday)

I think Hyundai, will go slightly more up market in the future starting with the Genesis. I still think it will be a very long time before we see a $55K+ Hyundai

Rocky

paisan · April 2007

isn't Kia owned by Hyundai? It would make sense that Kia would go against Toyota and Hyundai go against Lexus down the road.

-mike

bumpy · April 2007

I think that's exactly what they're going to do: bring in more high-end models and leave the inexpensive entry-level stuff to Kia.

bumpy · April 2007

If the Genesis is supposed to start "well under" $30k (V6 version), what happens to Axera? Is this Azera's replacement?

The Azera is Hyundai's FWD flagship at the moment, but the Genesis will bump it down a notch in the pecking order. The Azera is slated to get the Sonata 3.3L V6 as an option (the 3.8L V6 is the only current engine), which would put in solidly in the mid-$20s range, while the top-end Azera would cost about as much as the base V6 Genesis in the $28-29k neighborhood.

rockylee · April 2007

Yep !!!!! I'd be willing to place a bet on it that is what happens.

Rocky

rockylee · April 2007

I didn't know the Azera, is going to get the Sonata's 3.3L V6 ? When is that going to happen ?

Rocky

bumpy · April 2007

2008 MY, I believe. The Azera is already sold with that engine in most of the rest of the world.

rockylee · April 2007

Well thanks for the info. I did not know that. I'm curious if and when Hyundai, is going to build a hybrid ?

Do they sell hybrids any where in the world ?

Rocky

snakeweasel · April 2007

Several months ago I heard some scuttlebutt of a hybrid Accent in the next couple of years. Haven't heard anything of late on it.

joe97 · April 2007

It should be happening now (2007MY). I'd think local dealers should have some allocations (3.3L - GLS) by now.

http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2007_Models/Azera/Press_Release.asp

Also, the Sonata will soon receive 4 cylinder option across trims, which would mean more choices for consumers

rockylee · April 2007

Okay.....I wonder if they developed their own hybrid or shaired with somebody else ?

Rocky

rockylee · April 2007

Thanks for the info pal.

* Azera Limited with Ultimate Package now features a 605-watt Infinity® Logic 7 Surround Sound AM/FM/XM/CD-changer/MP3 audio system with 12 speakers (including subwoofer) and external amplifier

*I guess the Genesis, is either getting this or a better version. I heard 7.1 surround sound :surprise: If that is true only the Levison from Lexus, has that capability.

Rocky

joe97 · April 2007

Believe it or not, it has already made its world debut last year IIRC, in China. Hyundai is working out the cost issues but as it stands now, we should see it at some point next year for the North America market (NA), 09 at the latest.

While on the subject, Hyundai is favoring more towards diesel options for NA, and I would agree with them. Latest news coming out of the Hyundai camp has them working to bring diesels in NA. Quoted saying about $1K option over the petrol version.

If you ask me, diesel > hybrid

snakeweasel · April 2007

My understanding is that they are developing it themselves.

snakeweasel · April 2007

If you ask me, diesel > hybrid

I agree, less likelihood of technology failure with the diesel.

rockylee · April 2007

I'm down with diesel, as long as they can promise me some gas engine beating power. Right now Audi, has one of the best diesel's made it's 4.2 V8 Turbo Diesel. Something like that is what I could live with. Of course Hyundai, pricing.

Rocky

gpk · April 2007

A diesel hybrid is optimal. I was thinking that the biggest strike against hybrids right now is the lagging battery technology aspect of the equation.

snakeweasel · April 2007

The biggest strike against hybrids is that they are far more complicated. That means its more likely to break down and when it does more expensive to buy.

paisan · April 2007

Agreed, hybrids in 10 years are going to be super expensive to fix once out of warranty...

I'll take a diesel, preferrably an Isuzu based diesel system any day of the week. It's funny the Duramax Diesel is actually Isuzu in the GMs.

-mike

prosource1 · April 2007

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/17/hyundai-getz-as-efficient-as-a-toyota-pr- ius-in-london-test/

63 MPG
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/roadtests/43126/hyundai_getz.html

snakeweasel · April 2007

Being in London I would guess thats Imperial gallons which is 20% more than a US gallon. So 63 MPG would be 52.5, which still is a lot.

According to the Hyundai UK web site the Getz gets 42.8 city and 60.3 highway in the diesel version. The gasser gets about 20% less.

I do wish they would bring that car here.

drdonrs · April 2007

I own an 06 Azera Limited as well as an 06 Sonata LX6 which are replacing 03 Acura TL's. Let me tell you that the Azera is luxurious and has "boulevard manners" and my Sonata is like a frisky colt. My Azera is competitive with the Avalon and the Lexus LS, and I have driven in both of those cars. The problem as I see it is that the present dealerships do not have the luxury mentality and do not offer the ambiance that the luxury owner craves as well as the "badge cache". That being said if you are looking for value, performance as well as quality at a price that is considerably less than the competition then Hyundai is the answer. I have been more than happy with my cars. I have had the Sonata for 15 months and the car is as "tight" as the day I bought it, and very few problems, if any. I have had the Azera for 8 months absolutely trouble free in every aspect. The Genesis can be a winner if marketed well, certainly better than the Azera. As an aside the Azera is going to be equipped with the Sonata 6 at a lower entry point and the planning for the Genesis is to also offer it with a 6 cylinder engine. This would interest me.

Don

paisan · April 2007

I like the Azera, but it's not an LS, sorry. RWD and V8 is nothing like a V6 FWD.

-mike

jdkahler · April 2007

I disagree that hybrids are "far more complicated" - at least Toyotas - and even where they are different that is no basis to make the statement "that means more likely to break down." My Toyota Highlander Hybrid is in many ways the same as the ICE Highlander - same V6 ICE, most other components the same. Differences include several electric vs engine mechanical systems (power steering, air conditioning, etc.), a CVT that has more than one drive component (the ICE and an electric motor that doubles as a generator) - which is different but not necessarily more complicated than any other type of transmission, and the electric/battery parts of the hybrid systems which absolutely are unique. These may be different but that doesn't make them more complicated than their counterparts in non-hybrids. Electric motors have been around as long as engines, and they are extremely reliable and very simple in their operation (their required control systems are also different but not necessarily more complicated either - and many components today are electronic rather than mechanical so again, different but not necessarily more complex). Charge circuits and batteries likewise are different and unique, but not all that complicated. And most of the rest of the components on the Highlander, at least, are the same as the non-hybrids.

The really big difference is they are drive by wire, and managed by a computer to a greater extent than your standard ICE vehicle (which today typically pretty computer controlled anyway), but I'd suggest this makes them more reliable, though a failure means they _might_ not be able to limp in for service. A well-designed, electronic system can be no more complicated (aside from the programming) than a mechanical system, but more precise and, especially compared to the mechanical cars of old, much more reliable. Sure, technically the computer is doing lots of things when, for instance, it switches from power to charge to regenerative braking, but the actual execution of it is really pretty simple, different but no more complex than an automatic transmission shifting while the engine accelerates or when the brake pedal is pushed and the mechanical brake mechanisms using friction, hydraulics and other components along with the downshifting transmission slow the vehicle down.

But there are ways they are less complicated. No serpentine belt, pulleys and other components to run the alternator (there is none), power steering, air conditioning. Just electric motors. And those motors will probably last the life of the vehicle. Ever lose a serpentine belt on the highway? Sure, cheap to replace if one fails, but I'd suggest a well-designed collection of electric/electronic components is more reliable than the combination of similar components driven by that serpentine belt (I don't have statistics here to back this up, just a hunch based on experience with standard cars and reliability of electrical/electronic components).

I'd really like to see statistics that back up the likely to break down statement. Anecdotally, after almost 2 years of driving the Highlander, and with friends who drive Priuses and a new Camry hybrid, my informal survey and personal experience says these are reliable, especially compared with my experiences in 35 years of driving any number of vehicles that were problematic. Yes, there have been reports of failures, but there are failures in all products, some design flaws but more often individual problems. The only recall I'm aware of for the Highlander had to do with an interior trim piece that could affect the accelerator - on hybrid AND ICE models.

Yes, the average driveway mechanic can't work on the hybrid components of hybrids, but with most vehicles being more and more computer controlled, you can't work on them, either, when it comes to the electronic components. But compared to the last 2 vehicles I've owned, I have a feeling the Highlander Hybrid will continue to be absolutely trouble free by 25000 miles while each of the last 2 had to have service for problems - and they were run of the mill vans that in the long run had significant failures in "proven" systems that ended up costing significant $$ and, with the last one, would have cost thousands more had it not been we bought the hybrid. Initial cost of the Highlander was higher than the ICE version, over the life of the vehicle our TCO will probably be similar to the ICE version, so overall it's a wash. But we'll also have saved about 20% of the gasoline an ICE version would have used, we will have polluted less, and our overall experience would have been similar with excellent reliability and comparable maintenance costs. Check with me in 10 years/150K miles and we'll see if I'm right, but I suspect the reliability of the hybrid components will be better than had we had an equivalent ICE vehicle, based on their being electronic rather than mechanical.

tibtuscani · April 2007

looking sexy hyundai genesis

paisan · April 2007

I have no doubt that hybrids will be fine mechanically for 5/100k miles, but once they move beyond that, my feeling, no stats here, are that the batteries will start to hold less and less charge, meaning the "hybrid" part of the car will start to do less and less work, thereby making it even less fuel efficient than a decent gasser. Also since there is a small market for hybrids with all different components, you are looking at extremely high replacement costs on parts when the time comes to replace those parts that are unique to the hybrid portion.

Again these are all just my own opinion not based on any "facts" or stats.

To keep this on topic, I'd still like to see more diesels come over here, especially in a hyundai.

-mike

snakeweasel · April 2007

I disagree that hybrids are "far more complicated"

You may disagree but the facts present a different view. With a hybrid you have two separate power sources working to power the same set of wheels either together or each on its own. It is impossible to do something like that without it being more complicated than one power source. It requires more moving parts, the ability to shut off and turn on power sources automatically. Its far more complicated.

a CVT that has more than one drive component (the ICE and an electric motor that doubles as a generator) - which is different but not necessarily more complicated than any other type of transmission,

While the transmission itself is not more complicated the linkage to the two power sources are.

Anecdotally, after almost 2 years of driving the Highlander,

2 years is nothing, get back to be in 10 years when you have 200K on the car and shelled out $5k on batteries alone.

I suspect the reliability of the hybrid components will be better than had we had an equivalent ICE vehicle, based on their being electronic rather than mechanical.

But you see its not either ICE or electrical it is both. When you combine the two it becomes far more complicated than either one combined. your typical drivetrain on a Hybrid has more than twice the number of parts that a ICE engine has. You cant sit here and tell me that it is not.

louiswei · April 2007

1. No way this car will be starting at "well below" $30K like Hyundai stated. I will make a prediction that a base V6 will have a MSRP of $28,999 and top of the line V8 at around $40K. Mark my words. Even at these prices, if the Genesis could live up to its hype it'll still be a great value.

2. The V8 better has well more than 300HP, it should be at somewhere around 330 - 350HP range. The V6 will be adequet at around 270HP.

3. Although it's most graceful looking Hyundai in its short history it is still a combination of rip-offs from other brands. Headlights from Acura, grill from Nissan, front facial from Lexus, side profile from Infiniti, tail lights from Aston Martin and tail profile from BMW. However, there is nothing wrong with that since the first LS was a complete rip-off from MB S-class anyway.

4. I would never buy this car since it's too big in size for my taste (mid-size is the largest I'll go, prefer something like 3er, IS or G). However, would I recommend this car to my friends/relatives? You betcha.

prosource1 · April 2007

Hyundai USA execs emphatically state that the Genesis will not top out at $40K. They are stating it would defeat the very purpose to trying to gain a foothold in the luxury segment.
Let's face the fact that Hyundai can put anything on the MSRP sticker and then sell OTD $5k less. So they can sell it for anything they want as they attempt to get the attention of those they are targetting.
Could we admit that the loaded Azera, which sells nowhere near $30K is one of the bargains of the automotive world? The Genesis will follow suit. I guarantee that.

drdonrs · April 2007

I drive the "loaded" 06 Azera and it is one of the best bargains I have ever owned. This in addition to giving excellent performance and offering superb quality. I find it a joy to own, and drive. I think the Genesis will be similar in all aspects. My only question is will the Hyundai dealers be prepared to sell such a car and how will they handle a car that is in an upper price range, at least for them? The dealerships have to be upgraded, in my opinion. :confuse:

joe97 · April 2007

I read Hyundai has been putting the hammer down on some poorly performed dealers.

ocg35man · April 2007

If Hyundai Genesis arrives with what they promise and starts at $30k and V8 models well under $40k then, Yes it
will be a great value.

When Lexus first came out, it was a true bargain compare
to BMW and MERCEDES. Now depending on which model, I don't
think they are bargains anymore. It took many years to
establish themselves in that segment.

For Hyundai, it's probably not right time to create a
second brand like Lexus or Infiniti. It costs lots of
money and those costs have to be passed on to consumers.
If Genesis project is successful, someday they might have
a second luxury brand.

In the near future, we might see some low-end cars from
China. It seems smart for Hyundai to capture different
market than just low to middle segment.

And competition is always good. If it wasn't for Lexus
or Infiniti, other high-end brands would be charging more
or come up with lesser quality vehicles.

flatibby · April 2007

As a matter of fact the Hyundai dealer that I recently bought my new Sonata from in Deerfield Beach, Florida is going through a major change. They have bought properties next door to them and are building new facilites from the ground up. I have seen the artist rendition and it surely looks nice. Could this be the sign of Hyundai telling dealers to get their act together? :confuse:

dborth · April 2007

RE. 86: You are correct. The dealer I leased my Azera from last October just lost the line, and it was exclusive Hyundai.

rockylee · April 2007

prosource1-Heard DAT !

The 3.8 V6 will push close to 300 hp. and the Geneses Limited will at first be 340-350 hp. Give them a couple of years and they will Twin-Turbo it to "M" POWER specs. :shades:

Rocky

sinosure · April 2007

Hi, I'm new to the forum. Glad to be here! I too checked out the features of the new concept, & I think there's going to be a BIG PROBLEM for the other car makers! This Genesis looks like its going to be the industry nightmare to all the other car makers! It's going to offer just about everything that mid to high vehicles such as Lexus, BMW, M-B, & the like offer! Especially the U.S. car makers, GM, Ford, & Chrysler; boy they better watch it! And one thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is the fact of Hyundai's ever touted warranty of 10yrs. - 100k miles! Something none of the other car makers ever make a claim to! Those higher end cars never tout a warranty of that length! With those type of cars being built on & by the standard that they are, they should at the very least have that type of coverage offered from the gate, not as option to buy as most of them do. This is going to be interesting to see! My eyes are wide open! Everybody is going to be focused on this one! :surprise:

louiswei · April 2007

think there's going to be a BIG PROBLEM for the other car makers

A problem maybe. A BIG PROBLEM? No way.

This Genesis looks like its going to be the industry nightmare to all the other car makers

That's what they were saying about the LS400 back in 1990. MB looks to me are still doing pretty good these days. Of course, except the whole Chrysler thingy they got themselves into.

It's going to offer just about everything that mid to high vehicles such as Lexus, BMW, M-B, & the like offer

But with the Hyundai badge...

Hyundai's ever touted warranty of 10yrs. - 100k miles! Something none of the other car makers ever make a claim to

That's the case for Sonata vs. Accord/Camry/Altima as well. But last I checked, the Camcords are still the segment leaders in sales (Camry) and comparo (Accord).

Those higher end cars never tout a warranty of that length

Because they don't need such a warranty to sell.

sinosure · April 2007

Your ever so right on your comments. I have an Accord, 98' & I've had one previous, so I know what you mean. But, I feel even though T/H/N make very reliable cars, a warranty of that nature wouldn't hurt as I know you can get 300k miles easily from them. Its just peace of mind. But nevertheless, this thing is going to be something to watch & see!

paisan · April 2007

MB and BMW are still the cars driven by the elite, and as such even Lexus is looked down in the ritzy hoods. Will the Genesis be a cool car? yup! Will it sell to the middle class and upper middle class who only could dream of a MB 5 series? Yup!

-mike

sinosure · April 2007

I totally agree! And what makes it so bad is that BMW & MB have had more car problems than Lexus. But the Genesis will have its turn!

nthe · April 2007

"I didn't know the Azera, is going to get the Sonata's 3.3L V6 ? When is that going to happen ?

Rocky "

it has already happened. we have one sitting out on our lot right now. it stickers for a little less than 25K.

nthe · April 2007

" My only question is will the Hyundai dealers be prepared to sell such a car and how will they handle a car that is in an upper price range, at least for them? The dealerships have to be upgraded, in my opinion"

from what i've been told, many older hyundai dealerships were just made from existing buildings. the dealership i work for is one of hyundai's premier buildings cause it was built for hyundai (and by hyundai). we opened in dec 05, and hyundai is pushing new dealers to build new if they want a franchise. so hyundai already "appears" to be upgrading their facilities.

w9cw · April 2007

As Hyundai, slowly (?), but surely, moves its line up-market, perceptions will change, just as they did with Honda, Nissan, and Toyota before it. After all, Hyundai is Asian too, albeit not Japanese, but with the similar basic strategy, and work ethic. Hyundai's planned entrance into F1 racing won't hurt either - this may come to pass in either 2008 or 2009.

As for the flagship Hyundai, it will be a Hyundai - not a rebadged Toyota (Lexus), Honda (Acura), or Nissan (Infiniti). Give Hyundai credit, at least they feel their product is worth it without having to launch a new division to justify and differentiate the flagship model. Of course, new divisions are only needed here in the USA (read into that what you will!).

floridabob1 · April 2007

Is that dealership King Hyundai?

floridabob1 · April 2007

Has anyone from Hyundai actually stated if and when this car will go into production.
The people at my local dealership claim that a pickup will be offered first.

ricwhite · April 2007

My Azera comes off lease in March, 2008. Will the Genesis be offered by then?

chiefload · April 2007

Sorry for coming to the party a bit late, just found this thread/forum..

One of the problems that Hyundai has and potentially will continue to have is the pronunciation of their name. Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Nissan, Volvo, Saab, even Ford, Dodge, Cadillac sound very similar in a multitude of (western) languages. I speak English, French, German, some Italian. Having a heck of a time with 'Hyundai' in a conversation in the non-English languages. That might be a hindrance in today's global economy. And the company logo of the italicized H is, well, it is close to the H for Honda.

If they want to go the luxury brand route, Genesis might be a pretty good name for it.... In just about any language (and it does give me some great musical flashbacks to my younger days...)

Mark

Hyundai Genesis Sedan 2009+

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