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Comments
These cases are incredibly different, and while I don't agree with AIG's bailout it is completely different from bailing out a manufacturing/retail company.
AIG is being given money in order to keep liquidity so that they can insure bank investments. This allows companies like GM and Ford and customers like us to get credit.
Bailing out GM is like giving Circuit city or Pan-Am money to stay in business. The business model and management failed, but your handing out cash just so the business can exist.
Yes GM is large, but so was Texaco, Delta, Worldcom, United Airlines, Manville, Malden Mills etc. The only difference is that people are emotionally attached to GM (and their crappy cars).
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=121777
"All this reaffirmed our original hypothesis: The Aura is a decent car, but it's no Camry and it's no Accord. Fortunately, it's at least a start."
Taxpayers own 80% of AIG and they certainly insure their bonus. If they would have gone bankrupt, the contracts would be null and void. Then the taxpayers could have owned 100% of AIG as liquidation at this fire sale.
You fail to mention that GM is in dire straight from GMAC going into the subprime business. The UAW is very much solvent and living within its means/income. Your just punishing good hard working folks who may in fact be frugal and conservative fiscally. I work beside many who have amassed fortunes of seven digits and are far from the stereotypes you claim all UAW workers to be.
What I think Jacobs and Sinden have tried to do, was keep costs under control, while some teams (Detroit, the Rangers, Dallas) were spending like drunken sailors.
Interesting parallel is that, while the foreign automakers were investing wisely, the D3 and UAW were spending like drunken sailors. The NJ Devils may be considered the best run franchise in hockey, much in the way Honda may be considered the best run car company right now.
The only thing is I have FAR less sympathy for the $8,000,000 goaltender taking a paycut than I do the $80,000 forklift oper......(GASP.....what did I say????) NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Not that again......Gary, please bite your lip.....
Football baby!
Products: Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban; GMC Yukon and Yukon XL; Cadillac Escalade and Escalade ESV
Capacity: 450-500 vehicles per eight-hour shift, two shifts a day
Employees: About 2,280 UAW-represented production workers; about 200 nonunion management and engineering staff.
2008 payroll: $309 million
http://www.star-telegram.com/189/story/1218230.html
Football players can't hold a candle athletically or in toughness to a Hockey player.
Bailing out people that make dumb decisions with money I worked hard for just does not sit right with me.
Since the deficit is so high it is actually loaned Chinese treasuries.
-Rocky
-Rocky
And Rocky, I thought you said the quality of the plant did not matter?
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
See?
Rocky, w/ all due respect, that is where the state has failed, by laying all it's eggs in one basket. Michigan should try to diversify it's industries, even with a healthy auto industry.
LOL, I would like to be CEO of GM. It was my dream job as a child. Buy enough stock and appoint me will ya!!! :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
G-RAP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-dE4wydKOA
Furniture City
During the second half of the 19th century, the city became a major lumbering center and the premier furniture manufacturing city of the United States. For this reason it was nicknamed "Furniture City". After an international exhibition in Philadelphia in 1876, Grand Rapids became recognized worldwide as a leader in the production of fine furniture. National home furnishing markets were held in Grand Rapids for about 75 years, concluding in the 1960s. Today, Grand Rapids is considered a world leader in the production of office furniture.
In 1880, the country's first hydro-electric generator was put to use on the city's west side[4]. At the turn of the twentieth century, the people of Grand Rapids numbered 87,565. In 1916, the citizens of Grand Rapids voted to adopt a home rule charter that abolished the old aldermanic systems and replaced it with a commission-manager form of government, one of the first in the country. That 1916 Charter, although amended several times, is still in effect.
In 1945, Grand Rapids became the first city in the United States to add fluoride to its drinking water.
Downtown Grand Rapids used to host four department stores: Herpolsheimer's (Lazarus in 1987), Jacobson's, Steketee's (founded in 1862), and Wurzburg's. Like most downtown regional department stores, they suffered the same fate of falling sales, caused largely by the flight to the suburbs, and consolidation in the 1980s and 1990s.
Metropolitan Area
As of a 2007 census estimate, the Grand Rapids-Wyoming Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) had a population of 776,742, while the Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland Combined Statistical Area (CSA) had a population of 1,323,095.[7]
-Rocky
-Rocky
The Devils saw a lot of success through a failure to enforce obstruction rules, especially in the 90s. Sounds more Toyota-like, unexciting
GM's worst enemy and mine as a car sales consultant=The Media :sick:
From article: --An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated that the Chevy Cobalt gets 24 miles per gallon. The most popular version of the Cobalt gets 25 mpg.
The Cobalt's most popular model much better than 25 mpg thus get your facts straight editor!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: The XFE is capable of 37+ mpg highway :mad:
-Rocky
I call another silly diversion. You treat UAW like it is a business. Who cares if the UAW spends well? We're talking about GM here, a company that should be making money. They might be without all of those UAW costs. The brilliant Union that struck almost bankrupt American Axle last year. Suck all the remaining blood out of the turnip.
I read an interesting fact yesterday. Did you know that more "American" nameplate cars are made in the province of Ontario, Canada, than in Michigan?
Rocky, stay honest and I'm sure the good work will pay off. Your biggest problem is probably just how poor the economy is right now. We wish you the best of luck; if I were in Michigan and buying GM I would buy from you!
And that would help the UAW! (to keep it relevant
Grand Rapids has long been a center for furniture and automobile manufacturing; however, the presence of both industries has declined in the region along with manufacturing in general. American Seating, Steelcase and Herman Miller, major manufacturers of office furniture, are based in the Grand Rapids area.
In 1880, Sligh Furniture Company started manufacturing furniture.[8] In 1881, the Furniture Manufacturers Association (FMA) was organized in Grand Rapids, it was apparently the first furniture manufacturing advocacy group in the country.[9] Also Since 1912, Kindel Furniture Company,[10] and since 1922, the Hekman/Woodmark Furniture Company,[11] have been designing and manufacturing traditional American furniture in Grand Rapids. All of these companies are still producing furniture today.
More recently the city has had some success in developing and attracting businesses focusing on the health sciences, with facilities such as the Van Andel Research Institute (primarily focused on cancer research), Grand Valley State University's Cook-DeVos Center for Health Sciences (undergraduate and graduate health-related programs, doctorate program in Physical Therapy, upcoming Doctorate of Nursing Practice (DNP)), and Michigan State University's new Grand Rapids based Medical School. Over the next several years, multiple millions of dollars are being spent on new and expanded facilities (including the Spectrum Health Cancer Pavilion, the Spectrum Health Helen DeVos Children's Hospital and an addtion to the Van Andel Institute, which will more than double its space. Most of these buildings are located in the Michigan Street medical corridor, and is commonly known as "Medical Mile". Employment opportunities thrive and the growth has developed specialized health science employment groups to facilitate the influx, such as the [3]Medical Mile Group].
The Grand Rapids area is also home to a number of well known companies that include; Alticor/Amway (a consumer goods manufacturer and distributor), Foremost Insurance Company (a specialty lines insurance company), Meijer (a reigonal Supercenter chain), GE Aviation (formerly Smiths Industries, an Aerospace products company), Wolverine World Wide (a designer and manufacturer of shoes, boots and clothing), MC Sports, Inc. (a regional sports retail chain) and Universal Forest Products (a building materials company).
The city is also known as a center of Christian publishing, home to Zondervan, Baker Books, Kregel Publications, and Eerdmans Publishing.
The surrounding area is noted for its fruit production. Due to its close proximity to Lake Michigan the climate is considered prime for apple, peach, and blueberry farming.
In recent years, the convention business has seen an increase following the construction of the DeVos Place Convention Center.
We are 2nd in the world next to Detroit, in automotive but as you can see we have a diverse economy in Grand Rapids. The suburbs like Holland/Zeeland, are filled with manufacturing plants like Gentex, Johnson Controls, Herman Miller, Donnelly, Haworth, Tier Yachts, all of which are non-union and are struggling to stay alive
-Rocky
-Rocky
EGR, is also the hometown of our most famous former Grand Rapids, resident and President of the United States, Gerald R. Ford. He was a decent president from what I read about him. I in fact watched a video about him on PBS the other night but was too tired to watch the ending. If I remember right Gerry Ford, was against globalism I think. Is that correct information???
I also appreciate your kind words saying you would buy a UAW made car from me. The economy is tough despite our diversity and I've lost a lot of deals not because I did anything wrong but because the imports are able to lease or Ford or Chrysler are giving em' away. Beth, gets 3-4x the volume that I do at her Chevy dealership because she is on perhaps the busiest street in Michigan called 28th street. I like where I work and love my boss because he cares about his people. I also have good coworkers also. She has stress that I don't deal with day to day due to a rotating door of sales staff and management that back stab one another. I was recruited by another dealer though today that wanted me to sell Hyundai's, in Holland. The devil angel on my left shoulder was telling me to do it Rocky! It was tempting!!! The angel on my right shoulder said Rocky, you are a UAW-GM man and don't sell your soul to the devil!!! :surprise:
-Rocky
-Rocky
That was my thought exactly. From the article:
Total Routine Maintenance Costs (over [16] months): $223.24
Additional Maintenance Costs: 0
Warranty Repairs: 5
Non-Warranty Repairs: 0
Scheduled Dealer Visits: 4
Unscheduled Dealer Visits: 6
Days Out of Service: 33
Breakdowns Stranding Driver: None
Not a whole lot different from my '87 BMW! Except, of course, I had no warranty repairs or any unscheduled dealer visits :shades:
So,this is an example of one of the D3's best?
It would be tough for a while, but people, cities, and states survive these kinds of things. Metropolitan Baltimore survived the closing of it's GM plant and the closing of Bethlehem Steel which, at one time, was the largest employer in the state. The biggest losers, in my mind, were the Beth Steel retirees who had their pensions cut, sometimes significantly, when the plan was taken over by the PBGC. But, they have survived - just not as comfortably as before.
Just like the Auto Industry. Government-issue cars and UAW Government employees.
Sounds about right.
Regards,
OW
But heck, these days if you're anal about oil changes and do them every 3,000 miles, and do a tire rotation, say, every 3rd oil change, I guess just that could run over $200. Plus, throw in an air filter or two. And if that thing has a pollen/dust filter for inside, I guess that would run the cost up pretty quickly.
Don't you think that the Chinese would've figured out on their own that this communism thing just wasn't working out?
Anyway, this is a car forum, & I haven't seen any Chinese cars on the streets of my town. And I'm surprised you haven't worked yourself into a white-hot rage over the damage that the Germans have done to your beloved Cadillac. All of those luxury car sales lost to BMW & Mercedes Benz have cost GM untold billions of dollars.
I'd say our lifestyle (materially) now is far better than the 70's and early 80's. Our houses are larger, larger and better TV's, everyone's got a cellphone, airfares are cheap with more and more people travelling ...
I used to work at a submarine shipyard, and needless to say my workplace was getting hit in the first 15 minutes by a Russian sub in the Atlantic.
I think you and a lot of people need to find why you're not happy, or a way to be happy unless you have the newest Escalade or Lacrosse in the driveway.
Regards,
OW
It gives us a chance to argue over the UAW.
"Free Choice" is a faux choice; retain the secret ballot (Fredericksburg.com)
Well we had 1 of the above in the 1950s. Relatively little crime. Maybe it is the fact that people did not feel entitled to having every thing as the UAW is now displaying. We nearly starved in 1953. We ate broken Oreos & Graham Crackers my dad brought home while working at Nabisco in Portland Oregon. He was going to college days and working nights. Our rental house leaked on my bed in the loft. It was freezing at night as the house was not insulated. I think you and Rocky got your perception of the 1950s by watching Ozzie and Harriet re-runs. Then again maybe the fat cat UAW families lived like what you see in the movies. I am to this day frugal and conservative with my money as I do not want a repeat of my life in the 1950s
Chrysler makes its segment-defining Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivan as well as the Chrysler 300 sedan in Canada; it has some 9,000 direct employees there. Chrysler and the CAW began negotiations just this week."
Chrysler Rhetoric Gets Contradictory - and Desperate? (AutoObserver)