well i imagine most of them never worked at a auto supplier....we dont want to lose contracts by shipping junk to anyone, plus that we might be responsible for recalls...we make millionsof parts a year for chrysler and toyota and i know the quality is identical...but let the suckers overpay for their japanese cars and trucks...even CR admits domestics have closed the gap..i see a lot of parts every week we have to go thru or redo again before it gets shipped as a component to our molding facility
Yeah it's difficult for some who have never worked in the industry to comprehend what we are talking about. I see more Detroit, iron on the road that is 20 or 30 years old than I do Japanese/Korean cars. I'm not saying that the Japanese don't make good cars because they certainly do today but there stuff made in the 70's, 80's wasn't superior no matter how much they want to believe Consumer Imports.
-Rocky
P.S. Steve can you manually delete my empty album for me pal??? I added some pics to my album and tried to move them to the empty one like a fellow poster said and it wouldn't allow me to access it still. :confuse:
consumer imports , good one...it is hard to be a consumer if you dont have a job....my wife dragged me to a restaurant tonite with 4 other couples and i noticed they all drove asian cars JHC...one guy who was 76 and grew up indiana hadnt bought a domestic in 25 years...his subie engine just blew up...another girl who works for same company as me bought a subaru..she had a pontiac vibe which ran well for her before she wrecked it..i dont understand how someone from midwest and a supplier worker would not buy a big 3 product and support our auto industry...if americans cared about where products they bought were made i believe our economy wouldnt be so bad
Yeah it's difficult for some who have never worked in the industry to comprehend what we are talking about. I see more Detroit, iron on the road that is 20 or 30 years old than I do Japanese/Korean cars.
That's because NOBODY was buying Japanese cars in Michigan 20 years ago unless they had a suicide wish.
>"That's because NOBODY was buying Japanese cars in Michigan 20 years ago unless they had a suicide wish."
YOU NAILED IT !
A couple of weeks ago a Fox News reporter visited a GM plant. While on camera, Drove a new vehicle and commented on how most every car in the employee parking lot was a GM. Therefore: "They must be proud of the cars they build."
Probably doesn't have anything to do with the huge employee discounts, and fear that anything foreign might "accidently" be damaged, along with the driver.
Wonder how many of those cars were old "Beaters" , used for strictly work commutes?
Kip
Seems the day of reckoning for Chrysler UAW folks is at hand. (Do or have it done to you)
In Western Michigan 20 years ago you weren't cool unless you owned one. The Dutch people are import fan boys. They have sung a little different tune here lately as they've watched loved ones lose jobs because of it.
Good article....They can fire the older ones with vacation and good benefits and replace them with a mindless sheep for a lot less money fresh out of college that attended on mommy and daddy's nickle and never worked any where in he/she's life of substance. :sick:
He did not nail it. You still see plenty of camcords to this day around here but note quite as many here lately as the people around here are buying Detroit iron once again. It might also have something to do with how they are treated at the local import dealerships around here. It's like it's a priveledge as a consumer to buy one of there products which turns people off.
The saddest situation was the 40 year-old woman whose benefits are about to run-out looking into homeless shelters! This is no way for an otherwise productive citizen to end up! All these people did the right thing. They stayed in school. They kept their noses to the grindstone - and for what? Tony Montana said it best in Scarface, "You know what capitalism's all about? Getting (censored)!"
Just made in the USA is not enough. One must also determine whether or not the item in need is also "union made" in the USA. Make sure that autos to be ppurchased are made in USA by UAW workers. That excludes Mexico and Canada made.
LOL you aren't going to convince me that you old timers in the Teamsters never screwed over the younger workers?
We did go from a 3 year to a 6 year progression. After 6 years ALL the technicians and mechanics made the same pay and benefits. Our mechanic was making about $17 per hour more than Teamster mechanics working in other bargaining units. He was carried on our shirt tails. Th oil companies paid more to avoid dealing with the Union. Two tier is an anti Union concept.
I agree with you that the sacrifice should be shared but the facts are those contracts of having "temps" were negotiated with the union long before the first new hire that replaced a veteran happened.
Again this idea of temps in a Union is not new. We did not have any in our contract. The IBEW does have a Temp category and they make more per hour than full time to make up for the benefits. Just another example of the old timers screwing the new hires and Temps in the UAW. How you can try to spin that any other way is beyond me. And the lack of equality IS my major gripe with your beloved UAW. And the main reason they are NOT gaining ground. If temps are only worth $18 per hour, the fulltimers with benefits are worth even less. This is the whole purpose of a Union. Not to just coddle the old guys and stick it to the new hires.
Sounds like a few people on the radio I know you listen too *cough* Rush ummm Hannity
I would bet you have more hours listening to those guys than I have. I don't have a radio or TV in the house and usually listen to classical music in the vehicle. Not everyone has to be told what common sense looks like.
A UAW forklift worker at Delphi starts out at $14 an hr. A material handler that worked at Delphi was making $28 bucks an hour before the restructuring and buyouts
Both wages about double the going rate in the USA. Part of the inflation caused by the UAW. Paying a warehouseman over $10 per hour in Michigan is crazy. A person would be lucky to start at that here in CA, where it costs a lot more to live than MI.
The level playing field is in regards to american business competing on a equal playing field. What they pay there employees is between them and the individual employee or union.
I agree on employee pay, the UAW does not. If company B is forced to pay double labor to Company A the playing field is NOT level. The high wages enjoyed by unskilled factory workers in the Midwest, has caused the playing field to be uneven. The Midwest started losing manufacturing jobs to the South and other countries long before you were born. It just now is hitting close to home. It is not going to change. You and the UAW workers will have to change or be eliminated from the unskilled work pool. Too many people looking for any kind of job now. $15 per hour is top tier in the real World you have been insulated from all your life.
PS It was my nephew that took a job at Dell in Austin for $85k without a college degree. He does have all the Certs to make him valuable. He had to move from his family in NM to survive. You do what you have to do in this life.
i dont understand how someone from midwest and a supplier worker would not buy a big 3 product and support our auto industry Simply because our auto industry wasn't building cars for everyone. Some people wants RWD which can be driven on curved roads, other people want good midsize sedan. It is hard to believe, but not everyone dreaming about SUV or PU
All I can say is you and I view the world a lot different.
Very different. We were brought up in different worlds. You are from an upper middle class family. I was lower middle class. I was taught you have to work hard to succeed and there is no free lunch. You were taught the world owed you a living even when there was no work in the factory. I remember in the late 1950s when my step dad was in the carpenters Union here in San Diego. He quit and went to work for a non union contractor. He hated the attitude of the workers and their laziness. The UBC are an older Union than the UAW. Like the UAW they have lost a lot of jobs, due to their indifference to the business and entitlement. You do not create jobs by bankrupting the company.
You do not create jobs by bankrupting the company.
The reason gagrice gave above and the Jobs Bank, together with the fact that in Unions you don't really distinguish yourself from anyone else(at The Boeing Company managers were hogtied by the SPPEA Union in comparing employee apples and oranges, and giving said rewards to those deserving)at all. What good is working hard then?
Or working smart, as is the catch-phrase for many a manager in attempts to motivate employee's on to higher production, or, work that is more rework-free.
The Union philosophy can work if the business climate is ripe and ready for it. But to strike GM, get at The Man, imagine for a minute Karl Malone and one or two of his big, ugly elbows clearing a path to drive to the hoop or shoot, is dumb as dumb is.
"We landed on the moon!" Jim Carrey, from the 1994 movie 'Dumb and Dumber'.
"Probably doesn't have anything to do with the huge employee discounts, and fear that anything foreign might "accidently" be damaged, along with the driver."...rest assured, UAW people, when they had the chance, would destroy anything not made by them...no, we can't learn from the competetion, we can only vandalize the competetion...that'll show 'em...
gagrice: "You are from an upper middle class family. I was lower middle class. I was taught you have to work hard to succeed and there is no free lunch. You were taught the world owed you a living even when there was no work in the factory"...my father was middle middle class...if you wanted to know the median income of the average American, that was what my father made each year...yep, there ain't no free lunch, and the world does not owe you a living...I would bet no one in the UAW ever taught that to their kids because they were in a welfare entitlement attitude before Lyndon's Great Society welfare was created...company pay for this, company pay for that...what, me actually pay a portion of my health premiums, AND pay a portion of my healthcare???...doesn't GM cover everything???...can't we just raise the car price so I don't have to pay for anything???...
When I see inner city welfare, I somewhat understand the attitude, as they only see "paychecks" coming in the mail...but UAW people???...sadly, same mentality, nothing changes...
rocky: why do you keep blasting Rush and Hannity???...you must be listening in or you would not know what they say...my thoughts are mine, developed long before Rush and Hannity were popular
The 3-4 times I have listened to Rush over the last year, he was always pushing GM. If he is anti UAW, it is because they are destroying an automaker he obviously likes. So Rush and Rocky are on the same page. I could care less if I never sit in another GM vehicle. They have nothing on the market today I would consider buying.
>" For Darwin, cooperation between individuals could be an adaptive strategy in many environments as individual reproductive success increases through the safety and support of the group." Sounds rather like a union.
Right....the UAW survived by attacking the lion, but when there is no lion, the hyenas also get no kill left by the lion to scavenge off of in the future.....
I have worked in manufacturing and would say that the quality is very dependant upon the buyer. I worked with the world#2 bearing manufacturing company and QC was very different depending upon who was buying. for a regular off the shelf product, it does not matter. But when a company like Suzuki or the Railways place an order, it is specially setup and monitored. After that, even the buyerwould carry out a random inspection of the batch produced and might reject the whole batch if the percentage failure to meet set standards was not met. You are now talking months of manufacturing. Nobody wants to set up and manufacture just to have the buyer reject it. Therefore special attention does apply to customers who are demanding.
They are the grunts!!!!!! They don't design anything other than look for ways to screw-up the process..How much skill does it take to do repetive assembly line work????
The Asians figured it out, for they established assembly operations in remote areas to attract non-skilled small town folks who needed a better job other than what the their community offered..The Asians are good at keeping costs down, and they had the flexibility within every plant to control the operations.. The D3 lost their ability to control the process from every aspect, through years of contract concessions..
From my personal standpoint, GM was the easy to deal with on pricing, Ford was a pain and Chrysler was a waste of time..however I did business with all..
When I became a straight-commissioned manufacturer's rep, I dealt only with the Tier1 supply base folks, commissions were the name of the game---quick turn around..You can't pay this years bills with a new part that is three years away from production.. Easy business to enter, needing only a cell phone and a fax machine, and a car...Spent 3 months a year in Fla for 13 yrs, and quit in 2002..
I stayed away from the Asians car guys for they were too needy and too cheap..
My 7yrs of running a UAW infested plant near Flint, Mi was a great experience, however our employees were taught how to setup and operate their machines with management eager to teach all aspects to insure quality and profitability..I kept the prices up.. Approx 25% of the plant employees had their applications in for employment at local GM plants..they wanted the good life....
Have at it you auto folks, I didn't mention anything political today..
GM in the future will supply about 12% OF THIS COUNTRY'S NEEDS., quite a stepdown.. Ford will be okay, my 09 Bullitt is running wild folks, cruise at 90 is a piece of cake, for it is getting better every day..No I haven't gone the limit as yet, top end..Still miss my old 71 SS350 Camaro, and 90k miles driven over 1 1/2 yrs. Awesome set of wheels..the good old days, been there and done it..Still nothing political...
That is a good story and shows what people do when they are faced with adversity. I think it is a lot like the story ILUV tells of his life after being screwed by a Union at Boeing. It will do no good to lament the loss of manufacturing. It is a done deal and getting a head start on a new career is the smartest move a UAW worker can make.
He passed the state licensing exam on St. Patrick’s Day and recently started full-time at Vandalia Park Nursing Center.
It’s been a tough road getting here, marked by some serious belt tightening, no medical insurance, help from local churches and negotiations with a mortgage company so the family wouldn’t lose their home.
That makes it all the more surprising that Towe and his wife now say the layoff was a blessing.
“It was the change that needed to happen to get him to do what he knew he wanted to do,” said his wife, Kimberly, who has turned her passion for photography into a home-based business.
What did the Government do with the Tax dollars taken from the Auto workers ?Billions of Dollars over the Last 100 years in Taxes, now consider that now the auto workers are not consider tax payers,or even have payed taxes. The industry? How many times have you payed tax buying a car? tough stuff. Then consider the claims agenst the Government for lost wages because of their interfierance in contracts the UAW had with Ford GM and Chrysler. Class action suits by the thousands ,you will be on the hook for
I do think the retirees in the UAW will have a legitimate case against the UAW and the D3 if they take away their gold plated health care plan. The UAW should be culpable for signing such a Ponzi scheme. GM will probably be long gone or protected by the bankruptcy court. It was mainly the UAW that led their sheep to believe that the D3 could continue making promises on future profits. The checks in the mail so to speak.
there's a story like mine! I was waiting for a UAW one about a former UAW worker in automobile manufacturing or parts supply who gets laid off. Then you grieve, get over it, and figure out what you're gonna do.
What's that Jim Carrey movie? Oh, 'Fun With Dick and Jane.' I didn't even consider robbing banks for a living after getting laid off. But Jim and his blonde wife in that movie indeed go that direction. Kind of funny, but it's just another movie of Jim's that can't top the hilarity of 1994's 'Dumb and Dumber.' I don't know if it's because I watched that movie with my son and his friend, who were in their terrible teens at that time, or what, but that one touches my funny bone big time.
Anyhow, great read on that guy from Delphi. rocky, ya readin' these? rock, I, like the man in the story, saw that we could retrain in a career that would fit us as people, and what a Godsend the Trade Act Program was for me and my wife, and our Norwegian Forest cat and two Pomeranian babies. I couldn't retire, I was only in my early 40's at layoff time. Needed another route to continue earning money on.
But bravo for this man, and now that I strain to think of it, I do remember my manager at Boeing, upon hearing of my decision to train in Respiratory Therapy, after explaining to him what one of them does at work and all, tell me "that that job would suit me to a tee."
And as much as I bring up Boeing now and a then, and sorta punt them around a while, I sure am very happy to be here in the southwest desert with my wife in a small town. Anyone heard of Rex Allen, the Singing Cowboy? I hadn't before arriving here, but he is sort of a local celebrity from Willcox, AZ. Starred in many Hollywood movies singing and acting.
My wife and I and some friends went to the Chiricahua National Park, to see the unbelievable rock formations left behind after a volcanic eruption "hundreds of thousands of years ago." Inside the visitor center they show a video on the area's animal life, plants, scenery, rock formations, etc. It was very well done. As the credits rolled afterward, I saw Rex Allen's name all of a sudden. He did the narration for the video...he very much had a "Walt Disney" natural wonders kind of voice.
Anyhoo, thanks, imidazol97, for posting that great story. UAW members would be helped to see it, me thinks.
I didn't intend to call names but my thinking if Ignorance is you don't know then so be it ,I feel if most people were educated enough to know Auto workers pay taxes and most feel that it goes into limbo . Then give it back,not to take what has happened and laugh at what is going to happen is also sad. The general public has to know many lives will be in kayos and dealerships lost because the customers didn't buy what their neighbors were building. You don't shoot your neighbor because he had a job working to make a living building what he was told to.
I don't think anyone is happy people will lose their jobs. Most Americans feel the UAW is a big part of the demise of the Domestic Auto makers. In 1998 GM was not making any money and the UAW went on strike. Then again in 2005 when GM was bleeding red ink by the bucket fulls. Then as recently as 2008 the UAW went on strike at the only plants making vehicles that were selling. GM was losing nearly $40Billion when the ignorant folks in the UAW went on strike. So I think it will be hard to find many sympathetic to the UAW cause. I feel much more pain for the dealers and the 1000s of folks that have lost their jobs in the industry. Jobs that could have been saved if the UAW workers were not so greedy.
Maybe you feel so strongly because you are a member of the UAW. If so look in the mirror and you will see a big part of the failure of the D3. Not globalization, or currency manipulation. It is Bad management and a greedy Union workforce.
PS Most of US pay a lot of taxes, and get little say in how they are spent. Has nothing to do with the current mess in the auto industry.
imidaz: great posted article...I copied some of the quote from gagrice's post which, to me, is the most telling...the act of taking responsibility for oneself instead of whining what one thinks one is "owed" by the system...
gagrice: "That makes it all the more surprising that Towe and his wife now say the layoff was a blessing.
“It was the change that needed to happen to get him to do what he knew he wanted to do,” said his wife, Kimberly"...some people rise to the occasion and some people just flounder and whine...this guy, like iluv, took control of his own life and made a change in his direction...that is simply what these UAW people, in general, are unable and unwilling to do...they just whine that they lost car sales and their jobs, and they will do NOTHING to make a positive change in their lives...
That is why they are the UAW sheeple for the most part...mindless, wandering, ready to be led like lemmings by their UAW steward masters, who tell them daily they will get their jobs back when Obama is elected, or that they "deserve" no-pay health care and health insurance because "the man" should pay for it...
The end of the UAW will also mean the end of mindless fools who can't take control of their lives but can easily destroy an Accord at the Auto Show because of their envy and jealousy...the mindless sheeple, as rocky likes to call them, populate his own UAW, for they have no idea what to do now that their steward is gone...
Reminds me of an episode of the original Star Trek where Captain Kirk is enslaved (along with the hot half naked girl, of course) and the other species...he offers to fight the big aliens, not just for his freedom, but for the freedom of all of them...they wear these rings around their necks (slave necklaces) that the "masters" can use to cause them great pain when they disobey...naturally, Kirk wins, and the slave necklaces are suddenly released...the girl looks at Kirk and says something like, "What do we do with our freedom, Jim Kirk, we have been ordered around and led all our lives, we don't know how to think"...and Kirk replies, "You will get used to freedom in time, as it is a great experience and you will learn over time how to live for yourselves"...
UAW sheeple have been led like blind children for half a century...it is time they reached adulthood and lived for themselves...being able to think for UAW sheeple will be scary, as they have not had to think for decades, just follow orders from the idiots above...
Can you hear the slave necklaces coming off???...the thought of a quarter million people suddenly freed from UAW-think is a scary thought to most of us, but the strong will survive...and the rest won't...if not Darwinism, call it something...
Some will go to their graves in 30 years, complaining that they had to pay copays on their doctor visits (...I thought GM was supposed to pay for that...honey, what's a GM???)...
we all know that the UAW screwed themselves over writhing in their greediness. No, I don't feel sorry for them. Hoped they saved their dollars and cents, though. This ride is going to be not only out of control but very scary for a lot of midwesterners, yes.
But let's talk about bad mangement for a sec. I believe the Pontiac Solstice was a Bob Lutz creation, of course with help from many others. The Solstice was an example IMO of good management. The Solstice is one of a very, very few GM rigs I like. But think for a second and let's get everyone's thoughts on some very dumb management moves by GM execs or other managers.
Since we've discussed this ad naseum for so long I'm sure many will have ideas immediately pop in to their mind. Continuing to make large SUV's and large pick-em-up trucks while ignoring the passenger car segment no doubt hurt GM.
Not going ahead with the EV-1 was a mistake, obviously. But probably the largest mistake I can think of is how the UAW struck GM during times that gagrice has mentioned, when they were losing so much money hand over fist. This is not hard to figure out, car nuts. It's easy. GM execs let the out-of-control UAW worker strikes turn out to be succesful ones for the union. Hurting the hand that feeds them.
Why should the average schmaverage U.S. consumer and employee really shed tears for you all? Fu-get-aboud-ittt. I don't. I would immediately contact your UAW and GM sources at work and find out about Federal Aid in getting retrained and get out while you can. The bleeding is gonna go on for quite some time. Grieve, get it all out in one weekend or one brief period of time away from work. And be done with them.
Turn your attention to your future, and bury your thoughts in to getting re-trained immediately. It only makes sense. And realize that in your next career things won't be so slanted like working for the UAW's was. It'll make itself obvious soon enough for ya. You don't deserve overly-inflated wages. Dumb idea for a dumb...and dumber throng.
"Samsonite...Mary Samsonite! That's it, Harry!" Jim Carrey-from 1994's 'Dumb and Dumber'.
Every day, companies go out of business because they don't know how to earn a profit making things that customers want to buy. When this happens, good people lose their jobs. It's tough, but that's the way the world works. There's nothing special about the auto industry & no reason to prop it up with taxpayer dollars.
I've been laid off at least twice. It always hurts, but I've managed to retool & find something else. Along the way I've learned 2 things: (1) no matter how good your job is, don't assume that it will last forever, & (2) when times are good, build up your savings & pay down your debt. Money in the bank takes some of the sting out of losing your job.
Once upon a time, you could graduate from high school, find a job & keep it until you retired. Those times ended many years ago.
"It's easy. GM execs let the out-of-control UAW worker strikes turn out to be succesful ones for the union. Hurting the hand that feeds them."
That is why Roger Smith had the opportunity in 1983 or 1984, after GM's first losing year since 1925, to break and destroy the entire UAW right there, and could have become GM CEO of the Century...the strike fund paid something like $65 per week, and the UAW could probably have barely held out for 3 or 4 months...the entire state would have been in foreclosure because of the 1/2 million members, much more than now...instead, Smith capitulated in about six weeks, and the UAW marched on...
I was praying that Smith would take a 6 month strike, not only breaking the UAW, but breaking any memories of the UAW...great followup to the PATCO strike response by Reagan, but, alas, it was not meant to be...they couldn't strike Ford or Chrysler, as they were both on the ropes and almost bankrupt themselves, with Iaccoca getting his loan check for Uncle Sam...
Can you imagine if the world had been rid of the UAW over 25 years ago???...can anyone say "heaven on earth"???...soon, we will have what Roger was unable to accomplish, and it won't be any CEO that does it, it will be the UAW destroying itself, because the buyers went on strike instead of the UAW...hang on, folks, just a little longer, and complete sanity will be restored to automaking...
soon, we will have what Roger was unable to accomplish, and it won't be any CEO that does it, it will be the UAW destroying itself, because the buyers went on strike instead of the UAW
The most ironic piece of the puzzle is Obama putting the final nail in the UAW coffin. He could offer the UAW workers minimum wage jobs with ACORN. :shades:
The most ironic piece of the puzzle is Obama putting the final nail in the UAW coffin. He could offer the UAW workers minimum wage jobs with ACORN.
That hasn't happened yet. It looks the UAW will win again. They will NOT agree to any cuts in wages or pensions but will take insurance cuts and all will be well until next winter! We'll shell out another $20 billion and in 8 months we'll be doing this all over again!
think for a second and let's get everyone's thoughts on some very dumb management moves by GM execs or other managers.
HHR chasing PT Cruiser Camaro chasing Mustang Volt chasing Prius Backing down to UAW in '98 and '08 Failure to make a quality small car - recycling the "C's": Chevette-Cavalier-Cobalt-Cruze rather than sticking with one vehicle name that they could be proud of Failure to enter the premium small car market (like TSX/A4/3-series/Jetta) 4 copies of Traverse/Acadia/what are the others? Focusing on more brands rather than more quality Focusing on more advertising rather than more quality ("A new kind of car company", "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet", "Born from jets") No plan for when gas got expensive No plan for when economic cycle tanked
The reason gagrice gave above and the Jobs Bank, together with the fact that in Unions you don't really distinguish yourself from anyone else(at The Boeing Company managers were hogtied by the SPPEA Union in comparing employee apples and oranges, and giving said rewards to those deserving)at all. What good is working hard then?
It's a matter of pride and self respect. Why do you need special recognition for doing your job??? Some sheeple need positive re enforcement from another person for doing there job or they get upset. :confuse:
The Union philosophy can work if the business climate is ripe and ready for it. But to strike GM, get at The Man, imagine for a minute Karl Malone and one or two of his big, ugly elbows clearing a path to drive to the hoop or shoot, is dumb as dumb is.
"We landed on the moon!" Jim Carrey, from the 1994 movie 'Dumb and Dumber'.
If they wouldn't of went on strike they would of got nothing. You aren't going to convince people when you the boss are pulling down $15 million a year while asking your employees to forgive everything they faught for at the bargaining table because "the man" screwed up with product launches. The UAW doesn't market Big 3 vehicles nor designs or engineers them. They screwed up in the 1980's and made some very bad vehicles and when they broke they didn't take care of the customer despite having a majority share of the market. What pisses me off is that corporate america expects the working man to always swallow the largest burden for there screw ups while they keep there jobs, corporate jet, multi-million dollar salary. It's just not fair and despite what you and others think you will never convince me to believe otherwise.
-Rocky
P.S. How many years of college does it take to become a respitatory therapist??? What is the average salary range???
So you "ran" a UAW plant thus you probably had some grievances filed against you for violating the contract. Now the missing pieces of the puzzle have completed the big picture of your hate.
Now, explain that simple process to rocky, and see how well he understands it...
If that is the case which I know it isn't for all of those jobs then please explain how a UAW worker is supposedly screwing up all these cars that are inspected multiple times down the assembly line if they are such utter failures??? (Even though we all know they aren't) For someone who has never done that line of work in his life he sure knows a lot about how these processes work!!! :surprise: :confuse:
8.4% of the total cost is greed??? :confuse: Unbelievable!!! The reason why they are failing so badly isn't because of the UAW but is because millions of people have lost there good paying jobs. Someday you will realize that our wages vs. cost of living are out of balance. One would think Marsha7 would be able to recognize this better than anyone but apparently because he had a grievance filed against him or something in his past his hate and anger towards unions well gets the best of him.
That is why they are the UAW sheeple for the most part...mindless, wandering, ready to be led like lemmings by their UAW steward masters, who tell them daily they will get their jobs back when Obama is elected, or that they "deserve" no-pay health care and health insurance because "the man" should pay for it...
I guess because the mindless sheep were to dumb and ignorant to form a union and got raked through the coals by their company who promised to take care of them for a job well done is now screwing them over on benefits and want the employee wants someone to blame and are now taking there hate and anger on those who have it better than them. They won't unionize because that would take risk and it's just easier to knock the other person down. I tell em' to grow a set like the UAW workers.
UAW sheeple have been led like blind children for half a century...it is time they reached adulthood and lived for themselves...being able to think for UAW sheeple will be scary, as they have not had to think for decades, just follow orders from the idiots above...
Those idiots above helped create a strong middle class and it's just only a coincidence right that the less union jobs we have in this country the lower our standard of living has became. You and gagrice are something else. :confuse:
Can you hear the slave necklaces coming off???...the thought of a quarter million people suddenly freed from UAW-think is a scary thought to most of us, but the strong will survive...and the rest won't...if not Darwinism, call it something...
They like millions of others will be broke also. Welcome to your New World Order of serf n' elites. Great time in american history isn't it!!! :sick:
Some will go to their graves in 30 years, complaining that they had to pay copays on their doctor visits (...I thought GM was supposed to pay for that...honey, what's a GM???)...
Yep!!! They will go what's a GM. They will also ask what was freedom like before the Chinese invaded us. Daddy what is a factory? Daddy what is English? and so on!!!
Volt chasing Prius - We will see. It could be a great move thus no comment right now.
Backing down to UAW in '98 and '08 - The UAW gave up a lot of benefits during the 2007 strike.
A take from a UAW employee:
THE reason we have earned the wages and benefits we have today, is because of the blood, sweat, and the pain we have endured on these assembly lines. Thirty, forty years ago, we did not have the benefits we have today. Do you think GM just decided to increase the pay and benefits because they love and care about their employees. Don’t believe it. We have earned everything we've gotten. I have seen workers get injured on the line, pinched between two carriers, pushed out the way and they, (General Motors) have kept the line running .There is no love there. For years, GM’s attitude has been “I am the BOSS you are the HORSE”. There is no room for that mentality any more .That is why we call it WORK; if it were fun everyone would be doing it. I've been a proud Third generation Union Member GM employee for 27 years and both my sons are also proud UAW GM auto workers. I have been supporting this company since I was a kid learning at an early age "You don’t bite the hand that feeds you!” We have given up so much over the years, now they want to take the very source that can put us back together. Our “HEALTH CARE”. People need to be made aware that when General Motors Employees retires, their life span expectancy usually last at around 6 years. The physical work toll that we, the employees have to endure on a daily bases, have left many employees from our past generations in disabled and frail conditions. This is why we are fighting for what we deserve!
Posted by: Hector E Rodriuez Jr | September 25, 2007 at 9:07 AM
Failure to make a quality small car - recycling the "C's": Chevette-Cavalier-Cobalt-Cruze rather than sticking with one vehicle name that they could be proud of
I can agree with that. Hopefully the Cruze is finally it.
Failure to enter the premium small car market (like TSX/A4/3-series/Jetta)
Well they had plans to make a baby CTS thus yeah I agree it was a mistake.
Focusing on more advertising rather than more quality ("A new kind of car company", "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet", "Born from jets")
LOL, a bit true.
No plan for when gas got expensive
Who predicted $4-5 dollar gas??? I sure in the hell didn't.
No plan for when economic cycle tanked
Did anyone??? Look around at all these companies losing money. even your beloved imports have went to there guvaments for money.
All this from Rocky's best CEO ever!
I agree Wagoner made some mistakes BUT it's not his fault that he was competing on a UNLEVEL playing field. If we would of TARIFFED imports it would of solved the uncompetitive advantages of currency manipulation and 3rd world labor. We held the trump cards and we still lost the game. Put Richard G. Wagoner in charge on a level playing field and he will succeed. He proved it in China. They are all competing on a level playing field over there.
What pisses me off is that corporate america expects the working man to always swallow the largest burden for there screw ups while they keep there jobs, corporate jet, multi-million dollar salary. It's just not fair and despite what you and others think you will never convince me to believe otherwise.
Nobody says it was fair, but that's just the way it is. I agree that way too many CEO's get outrageous compensation packages even when their company is tanking, and that workers, professional and line workers, bear the brunt of bad CEO decisions. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I have a Master's degree in EE. But when you come right down to it, my rights and "fairness" as far as my job goes is closer to that of the person who makes sure the the stalls in the mens room have toilet paper in them than they are to those of our executive management.
Comments
-Rocky
P.S. Steve can you manually delete my empty album for me pal??? I added some pics to my album and tried to move them to the empty one like a fellow poster said and it wouldn't allow me to access it still. :confuse:
That's because NOBODY was buying Japanese cars in Michigan 20 years ago unless they had a suicide wish.
YOU NAILED IT !
A couple of weeks ago a Fox News reporter visited a GM plant. While on camera, Drove a new vehicle and commented on how most every car in the employee parking lot was a GM. Therefore: "They must be proud of the cars they build."
Probably doesn't have anything to do with the huge employee discounts, and fear that anything foreign might "accidently" be damaged, along with the driver.
Wonder how many of those cars were old "Beaters" , used for strictly work commutes?
Kip
Seems the day of reckoning for Chrysler UAW folks is at hand. (Do or have it done to you)
Coping With Unemployment
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
We did go from a 3 year to a 6 year progression. After 6 years ALL the technicians and mechanics made the same pay and benefits. Our mechanic was making about $17 per hour more than Teamster mechanics working in other bargaining units. He was carried on our shirt tails. Th oil companies paid more to avoid dealing with the Union. Two tier is an anti Union concept.
I agree with you that the sacrifice should be shared but the facts are those contracts of having "temps" were negotiated with the union long before the first new hire that replaced a veteran happened.
Again this idea of temps in a Union is not new. We did not have any in our contract. The IBEW does have a Temp category and they make more per hour than full time to make up for the benefits. Just another example of the old timers screwing the new hires and Temps in the UAW. How you can try to spin that any other way is beyond me. And the lack of equality IS my major gripe with your beloved UAW. And the main reason they are NOT gaining ground. If temps are only worth $18 per hour, the fulltimers with benefits are worth even less. This is the whole purpose of a Union. Not to just coddle the old guys and stick it to the new hires.
Sounds like a few people on the radio I know you listen too *cough* Rush ummm Hannity
I would bet you have more hours listening to those guys than I have. I don't have a radio or TV in the house and usually listen to classical music in the vehicle. Not everyone has to be told what common sense looks like.
A UAW forklift worker at Delphi starts out at $14 an hr. A material handler that worked at Delphi was making $28 bucks an hour before the restructuring and buyouts
Both wages about double the going rate in the USA. Part of the inflation caused by the UAW. Paying a warehouseman over $10 per hour in Michigan is crazy. A person would be lucky to start at that here in CA, where it costs a lot more to live than MI.
The level playing field is in regards to american business competing on a equal playing field. What they pay there employees is between them and the individual employee or union.
I agree on employee pay, the UAW does not. If company B is forced to pay double labor to Company A the playing field is NOT level. The high wages enjoyed by unskilled factory workers in the Midwest, has caused the playing field to be uneven. The Midwest started losing manufacturing jobs to the South and other countries long before you were born. It just now is hitting close to home. It is not going to change. You and the UAW workers will have to change or be eliminated from the unskilled work pool. Too many people looking for any kind of job now. $15 per hour is top tier in the real World you have been insulated from all your life.
PS
It was my nephew that took a job at Dell in Austin for $85k without a college degree. He does have all the Certs to make him valuable. He had to move from his family in NM to survive. You do what you have to do in this life.
Simply because our auto industry wasn't building cars for everyone. Some people wants RWD which can be driven on curved roads, other people want good midsize sedan. It is hard to believe, but not everyone dreaming about SUV or PU
-Rocky
Very different. We were brought up in different worlds. You are from an upper middle class family. I was lower middle class. I was taught you have to work hard to succeed and there is no free lunch. You were taught the world owed you a living even when there was no work in the factory. I remember in the late 1950s when my step dad was in the carpenters Union here in San Diego. He quit and went to work for a non union contractor. He hated the attitude of the workers and their laziness. The UBC are an older Union than the UAW. Like the UAW they have lost a lot of jobs, due to their indifference to the business and entitlement. You do not create jobs by bankrupting the company.
The reason gagrice gave above and the Jobs Bank, together with the fact that in Unions you don't really distinguish yourself from anyone else(at The Boeing Company managers were hogtied by the SPPEA Union in comparing employee apples and oranges, and giving said rewards to those deserving)at all. What good is working hard then?
Or working smart, as is the catch-phrase for many a manager in attempts to motivate employee's on to higher production, or, work that is more rework-free.
The Union philosophy can work if the business climate is ripe and ready for it. But to strike GM, get at The Man, imagine for a minute Karl Malone and one or two of his big, ugly elbows clearing a path to drive to the hoop or shoot, is dumb as dumb is.
"We landed on the moon!" Jim Carrey, from the 1994 movie 'Dumb and Dumber'.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
gagrice: "You are from an upper middle class family. I was lower middle class. I was taught you have to work hard to succeed and there is no free lunch. You were taught the world owed you a living even when there was no work in the factory"...my father was middle middle class...if you wanted to know the median income of the average American, that was what my father made each year...yep, there ain't no free lunch, and the world does not owe you a living...I would bet no one in the UAW ever taught that to their kids because they were in a welfare entitlement attitude before Lyndon's Great Society welfare was created...company pay for this, company pay for that...what, me actually pay a portion of my health premiums, AND pay a portion of my healthcare???...doesn't GM cover everything???...can't we just raise the car price so I don't have to pay for anything???...
When I see inner city welfare, I somewhat understand the attitude, as they only see "paychecks" coming in the mail...but UAW people???...sadly, same mentality, nothing changes...
rocky: why do you keep blasting Rush and Hannity???...you must be listening in or you would not know what they say...my thoughts are mine, developed long before Rush and Hannity were popular
The 3-4 times I have listened to Rush over the last year, he was always pushing GM. If he is anti UAW, it is because they are destroying an automaker he obviously likes. So Rush and Rocky are on the same page. I could care less if I never sit in another GM vehicle. They have nothing on the market today I would consider buying.
Well maybe a Corvette.
they have been striking.....not a picket line, but their pocket
Right....the UAW survived by attacking the lion, but when there is no lion, the hyenas also get no kill left by the lion to scavenge off of in the future.....
I have worked in manufacturing and would say that the quality is very dependant upon the buyer. I worked with the world#2 bearing manufacturing company and QC was very different depending upon who was buying. for a regular off the shelf product, it does not matter. But when a company like Suzuki or the Railways place an order, it is specially setup and monitored. After that, even the buyerwould carry out a random inspection of the batch produced and might reject the whole batch if the percentage failure to meet set standards was not met. You are now talking months of manufacturing. Nobody wants to set up and manufacture just to have the buyer reject it. Therefore special attention does apply to customers who are demanding.
The Asians figured it out, for they established assembly operations in remote areas to attract non-skilled small town folks who needed a better job other than what the their community offered..The Asians are good at keeping costs down, and they had the flexibility within every plant to control the operations.. The D3 lost their ability to control the process from every aspect, through years of contract concessions..
From my personal standpoint, GM was the easy to deal with on pricing, Ford was a pain and Chrysler was a waste of time..however I did business with all..
When I became a straight-commissioned manufacturer's rep, I dealt only with the Tier1 supply base folks, commissions were the name of the game---quick turn around..You can't pay this years bills with a new part that is three years away from production.. Easy business to enter, needing only a cell phone and a fax machine, and a car...Spent 3 months a year in Fla for 13 yrs, and quit in 2002..
I stayed away from the Asians car guys for they were too needy and too cheap..
My 7yrs of running a UAW infested plant near Flint, Mi was a great experience, however our employees were taught how to setup and operate their machines with management eager to teach all aspects to insure quality and profitability..I kept the prices up.. Approx 25% of the plant employees had their applications in for employment at local GM plants..they wanted the good life....
Have at it you auto folks, I didn't mention anything political today..
GM in the future will supply about 12% OF THIS COUNTRY'S NEEDS., quite a stepdown.. Ford will be okay, my 09 Bullitt is running wild folks, cruise at 90 is a piece of cake, for it is getting better every day..No I haven't gone the limit as yet, top end..Still miss my old 71 SS350 Camaro, and 90k miles driven over 1 1/2 yrs. Awesome set of wheels..the good old days, been there and done it..Still nothing political...
Yes, you did, and you summed it up well: "My 7yrs of running a UAW infested plant near Flint, Mi was a great experience,"
Considering what the UAW has done to kill off the domestic auto industry, infested describes them to a "T"
Now, explain that simple process to rocky, and see how well he understands it...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
He passed the state licensing exam on St. Patrick’s Day and recently started full-time at Vandalia Park Nursing Center.
It’s been a tough road getting here, marked by some serious belt tightening, no medical insurance, help from local churches and negotiations with a mortgage company so the family wouldn’t lose their home.
That makes it all the more surprising that Towe and his wife now say the layoff was a blessing.
“It was the change that needed to happen to get him to do what he knew he wanted to do,” said his wife, Kimberly, who has turned her passion for photography into a home-based business.
What's that Jim Carrey movie? Oh, 'Fun With Dick and Jane.' I didn't even consider robbing banks for a living after getting laid off. But Jim and his blonde wife in that movie indeed go that direction. Kind of funny, but it's just another movie of Jim's that can't top the hilarity of 1994's 'Dumb and Dumber.' I don't know if it's because I watched that movie with my son and his friend, who were in their terrible teens at that time, or what, but that one touches my funny bone big time.
Anyhow, great read on that guy from Delphi. rocky, ya readin' these? rock, I, like the man in the story, saw that we could retrain in a career that would fit us as people, and what a Godsend the Trade Act Program was for me and my wife, and our Norwegian Forest cat and two Pomeranian babies. I couldn't retire, I was only in my early 40's at layoff time. Needed another route to continue earning money on.
But bravo for this man, and now that I strain to think of it, I do remember my manager at Boeing, upon hearing of my decision to train in Respiratory Therapy, after explaining to him what one of them does at work and all, tell me "that that job would suit me to a tee."
And as much as I bring up Boeing now and a then, and sorta punt them around a while, I sure am very happy to be here in the southwest desert with my wife in a small town. Anyone heard of Rex Allen, the Singing Cowboy? I hadn't before arriving here, but he is sort of a local celebrity from Willcox, AZ. Starred in many Hollywood movies singing and acting.
My wife and I and some friends went to the Chiricahua National Park, to see the unbelievable rock formations left behind after a volcanic eruption "hundreds of thousands of years ago." Inside the visitor center they show a video on the area's animal life, plants, scenery, rock formations, etc. It was very well done. As the credits rolled afterward, I saw Rex Allen's name all of a sudden. He did the narration for the video...he very much had a "Walt Disney" natural wonders kind of voice.
Anyhoo, thanks, imidazol97, for posting that great story. UAW members would be helped to see it, me thinks.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I don't think anyone is happy people will lose their jobs. Most Americans feel the UAW is a big part of the demise of the Domestic Auto makers. In 1998 GM was not making any money and the UAW went on strike. Then again in 2005 when GM was bleeding red ink by the bucket fulls. Then as recently as 2008 the UAW went on strike at the only plants making vehicles that were selling. GM was losing nearly $40Billion when the ignorant folks in the UAW went on strike. So I think it will be hard to find many sympathetic to the UAW cause. I feel much more pain for the dealers and the 1000s of folks that have lost their jobs in the industry. Jobs that could have been saved if the UAW workers were not so greedy.
Maybe you feel so strongly because you are a member of the UAW. If so look in the mirror and you will see a big part of the failure of the D3. Not globalization, or currency manipulation. It is Bad management and a greedy Union workforce.
PS
Most of US pay a lot of taxes, and get little say in how they are spent. Has nothing to do with the current mess in the auto industry.
gagrice: "That makes it all the more surprising that Towe and his wife now say the layoff was a blessing.
“It was the change that needed to happen to get him to do what he knew he wanted to do,” said his wife, Kimberly"...some people rise to the occasion and some people just flounder and whine...this guy, like iluv, took control of his own life and made a change in his direction...that is simply what these UAW people, in general, are unable and unwilling to do...they just whine that they lost car sales and their jobs, and they will do NOTHING to make a positive change in their lives...
That is why they are the UAW sheeple for the most part...mindless, wandering, ready to be led like lemmings by their UAW steward masters, who tell them daily they will get their jobs back when Obama is elected, or that they "deserve" no-pay health care and health insurance because "the man" should pay for it...
The end of the UAW will also mean the end of mindless fools who can't take control of their lives but can easily destroy an Accord at the Auto Show because of their envy and jealousy...the mindless sheeple, as rocky likes to call them, populate his own UAW, for they have no idea what to do now that their steward is gone...
Reminds me of an episode of the original Star Trek where Captain Kirk is enslaved (along with the hot half naked girl, of course) and the other species...he offers to fight the big aliens, not just for his freedom, but for the freedom of all of them...they wear these rings around their necks (slave necklaces) that the "masters" can use to cause them great pain when they disobey...naturally, Kirk wins, and the slave necklaces are suddenly released...the girl looks at Kirk and says something like, "What do we do with our freedom, Jim Kirk, we have been ordered around and led all our lives, we don't know how to think"...and Kirk replies, "You will get used to freedom in time, as it is a great experience and you will learn over time how to live for yourselves"...
UAW sheeple have been led like blind children for half a century...it is time they reached adulthood and lived for themselves...being able to think for UAW sheeple will be scary, as they have not had to think for decades, just follow orders from the idiots above...
Can you hear the slave necklaces coming off???...the thought of a quarter million people suddenly freed from UAW-think is a scary thought to most of us, but the strong will survive...and the rest won't...if not Darwinism, call it something...
Some will go to their graves in 30 years, complaining that they had to pay copays on their doctor visits (...I thought GM was supposed to pay for that...honey, what's a GM???)...
But let's talk about bad mangement for a sec. I believe the Pontiac Solstice was a Bob Lutz creation, of course with help from many others. The Solstice was an example IMO of good management. The Solstice is one of a very, very few GM rigs I like. But think for a second and let's get everyone's thoughts on some very dumb management moves by GM execs or other managers.
Since we've discussed this ad naseum for so long I'm sure many will have ideas immediately pop in to their mind. Continuing to make large SUV's and large pick-em-up trucks while ignoring the passenger car segment no doubt hurt GM.
Not going ahead with the EV-1 was a mistake, obviously. But probably the largest mistake I can think of is how the UAW struck GM during times that gagrice has mentioned, when they were losing so much money hand over fist. This is not hard to figure out, car nuts. It's easy. GM execs let the out-of-control UAW worker strikes turn out to be succesful ones for the union. Hurting the hand that feeds them.
Why should the average schmaverage U.S. consumer and employee really shed tears for you all? Fu-get-aboud-ittt. I don't. I would immediately contact your UAW and GM sources at work and find out about Federal Aid in getting retrained and get out while you can. The bleeding is gonna go on for quite some time. Grieve, get it all out in one weekend or one brief period of time away from work. And be done with them.
Turn your attention to your future, and bury your thoughts in to getting re-trained immediately. It only makes sense. And realize that in your next career things won't be so slanted like working for the UAW's was. It'll make itself obvious soon enough for ya. You don't deserve overly-inflated wages. Dumb idea for a dumb...and dumber throng.
"Samsonite...Mary Samsonite! That's it, Harry!" Jim Carrey-from 1994's 'Dumb and Dumber'.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I've been laid off at least twice. It always hurts, but I've managed to retool & find something else. Along the way I've learned 2 things: (1) no matter how good your job is, don't assume that it will last forever, & (2) when times are good, build up your savings & pay down your debt. Money in the bank takes some of the sting out of losing your job.
Once upon a time, you could graduate from high school, find a job & keep it until you retired. Those times ended many years ago.
That is why Roger Smith had the opportunity in 1983 or 1984, after GM's first losing year since 1925, to break and destroy the entire UAW right there, and could have become GM CEO of the Century...the strike fund paid something like $65 per week, and the UAW could probably have barely held out for 3 or 4 months...the entire state would have been in foreclosure because of the 1/2 million members, much more than now...instead, Smith capitulated in about six weeks, and the UAW marched on...
I was praying that Smith would take a 6 month strike, not only breaking the UAW, but breaking any memories of the UAW...great followup to the PATCO strike response by Reagan, but, alas, it was not meant to be...they couldn't strike Ford or Chrysler, as they were both on the ropes and almost bankrupt themselves, with Iaccoca getting his loan check for Uncle Sam...
Can you imagine if the world had been rid of the UAW over 25 years ago???...can anyone say "heaven on earth"???...soon, we will have what Roger was unable to accomplish, and it won't be any CEO that does it, it will be the UAW destroying itself, because the buyers went on strike instead of the UAW...hang on, folks, just a little longer, and complete sanity will be restored to automaking...
I can hardly wait...
The most ironic piece of the puzzle is Obama putting the final nail in the UAW coffin. He could offer the UAW workers minimum wage jobs with ACORN. :shades:
That hasn't happened yet. It looks the UAW will win again. They will NOT agree to any cuts in wages or pensions but will take insurance cuts and all will be well until next winter! We'll shell out another $20 billion and in 8 months we'll be doing this all over again!
HHR chasing PT Cruiser
Camaro chasing Mustang
Volt chasing Prius
Backing down to UAW in '98 and '08
Failure to make a quality small car - recycling the "C's": Chevette-Cavalier-Cobalt-Cruze rather than sticking with one vehicle name that they could be proud of
Failure to enter the premium small car market (like TSX/A4/3-series/Jetta)
4 copies of Traverse/Acadia/what are the others?
Focusing on more brands rather than more quality
Focusing on more advertising rather than more quality ("A new kind of car company", "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet", "Born from jets")
No plan for when gas got expensive
No plan for when economic cycle tanked
All this from Rocky's best CEO ever!
It's a matter of pride and self respect. Why do you need special recognition for doing your job??? Some sheeple need positive re enforcement from another person for doing there job or they get upset. :confuse:
The Union philosophy can work if the business climate is ripe and ready for it. But to strike GM, get at The Man, imagine for a minute Karl Malone and one or two of his big, ugly elbows clearing a path to drive to the hoop or shoot, is dumb as dumb is.
"We landed on the moon!" Jim Carrey, from the 1994 movie 'Dumb and Dumber'.
If they wouldn't of went on strike they would of got nothing. You aren't going to convince people when you the boss are pulling down $15 million a year while asking your employees to forgive everything they faught for at the bargaining table because "the man" screwed up with product launches. The UAW doesn't market Big 3 vehicles nor designs or engineers them. They screwed up in the 1980's and made some very bad vehicles and when they broke they didn't take care of the customer despite having a majority share of the market. What pisses me off is that corporate america expects the working man to always swallow the largest burden for there screw ups while they keep there jobs, corporate jet, multi-million dollar salary. It's just not fair and despite what you and others think you will never convince me to believe otherwise.
-Rocky
P.S. How many years of college does it take to become a respitatory therapist??? What is the average salary range???
-Rocky
-Rocky
If that is the case which I know it isn't for all of those jobs then please explain how a UAW worker is supposedly screwing up all these cars that are inspected multiple times down the assembly line if they are such utter failures??? (Even though we all know they aren't) For someone who has never done that line of work in his life he sure knows a lot about how these processes work!!! :surprise: :confuse:
-Rocky
-Rocky
I guess because the mindless sheep were to dumb and ignorant to form a union and got raked through the coals by their company who promised to take care of them for a job well done is now screwing them over on benefits and want the employee wants someone to blame and are now taking there hate and anger on those who have it better than them. They won't unionize because that would take risk and it's just easier to knock the other person down. I tell em' to grow a set like the UAW workers.
UAW sheeple have been led like blind children for half a century...it is time they reached adulthood and lived for themselves...being able to think for UAW sheeple will be scary, as they have not had to think for decades, just follow orders from the idiots above...
Those idiots above helped create a strong middle class and it's just only a coincidence right that the less union jobs we have in this country the lower our standard of living has became.
Can you hear the slave necklaces coming off???...the thought of a quarter million people suddenly freed from UAW-think is a scary thought to most of us, but the strong will survive...and the rest won't...if not Darwinism, call it something...
They like millions of others will be broke also. Welcome to your New World Order of serf n' elites. Great time in american history isn't it!!! :sick:
Some will go to their graves in 30 years, complaining that they had to pay copays on their doctor visits (...I thought GM was supposed to pay for that...honey, what's a GM???)...
Yep!!! They will go what's a GM. They will also ask what was freedom like before the Chinese invaded us. Daddy what is a factory? Daddy what is English? and so on!!!
-Rocky
Yep and we aren't better off because of it. Just because it is common doesn't make it right. :sick:
-Rocky
He is??? :confuse:
-Rocky
Camaro chasing Mustang - Excellent move!!! :shades:
Volt chasing Prius - We will see. It could be a great move thus no comment right now.
Backing down to UAW in '98 and '08 - The UAW gave up a lot of benefits during the 2007 strike.
A take from a UAW employee:
THE reason we have earned the wages and benefits we have today, is because of the blood, sweat, and the pain we have endured on these assembly lines. Thirty, forty years ago, we did not have the benefits we have today. Do you think GM just decided to increase the pay and benefits because they love and care about their employees. Don’t believe it. We have earned everything we've gotten. I have seen workers get injured on the line, pinched between two carriers, pushed out the way and they, (General Motors) have kept the line running .There is no love there. For years, GM’s attitude has been “I am the BOSS you are the HORSE”. There is no room for that mentality any more .That is why we call it WORK; if it were fun everyone would be doing it. I've been a proud Third generation Union Member GM employee for 27 years and both my sons are also proud UAW GM auto workers. I have been supporting this company since I was a kid learning at an early age "You don’t bite the hand that feeds you!” We have given up so much over the years, now they want to take the very source that can put us back together. Our “HEALTH CARE”. People need to be made aware that when General Motors Employees retires, their life span expectancy usually last at around 6 years. The physical work toll that we, the employees have to endure on a daily bases, have left many employees from our past generations in disabled and frail conditions. This is why we are fighting for what we deserve!
Posted by: Hector E Rodriuez Jr | September 25, 2007 at 9:07 AM
Failure to make a quality small car - recycling the "C's": Chevette-Cavalier-Cobalt-Cruze rather than sticking with one vehicle name that they could be proud of
I can agree with that. Hopefully the Cruze is finally it.
Failure to enter the premium small car market (like TSX/A4/3-series/Jetta)
Well they had plans to make a baby CTS thus yeah I agree it was a mistake.
4 copies of Traverse/Acadia/what are the others?
Enclave, Outlook. Agree badge engineering won't fix wounds.
Focusing on more brands rather than more quality
That is true up until about 2006.
Focusing on more advertising rather than more quality ("A new kind of car company", "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet", "Born from jets")
LOL, a bit true.
No plan for when gas got expensive
Who predicted $4-5 dollar gas??? I sure in the hell didn't.
No plan for when economic cycle tanked
Did anyone??? Look around at all these companies losing money. even your beloved imports have went to there guvaments for money.
All this from Rocky's best CEO ever!
I agree Wagoner made some mistakes BUT it's not his fault that he was competing on a UNLEVEL playing field. If we would of TARIFFED imports it would of solved the uncompetitive advantages of currency manipulation and 3rd world labor. We held the trump cards and we still lost the game. Put Richard G. Wagoner in charge on a level playing field and he will succeed. He proved it in China. They are all competing on a level playing field over there.
-Rocky
And neither do you hold up you neighbor forcing him to buy a product he just doesn't want.
Nobody says it was fair, but that's just the way it is. I agree that way too many CEO's get outrageous compensation packages even when their company is tanking, and that workers, professional and line workers, bear the brunt of bad CEO decisions. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I have a Master's degree in EE. But when you come right down to it, my rights and "fairness" as far as my job goes is closer to that of the person who makes sure the the stalls in the mens room have toilet paper in them than they are to those of our executive management.