>Can you imagine if the world had been rid of the UAW over 25 years ago???...can anyone say "heaven on earth"???...
I'm not sure it would have turned out to be Xanadu for GM during the last 30 years. I posted a review of the foreign car and plant development here earlier. Can't find it. It must have been removed.
The management of GM has as much culpability in failing to adjust as the UAW did. The Governments at all levels allowed foreign cars to compete with help of tax benefits and all. Look at what Alabama spent per worker in the Mercedes plant that was built. While the government is encouraging other companies to move production overseas with tax breaks, the local governments are buying jobs with local taxpayer money.
Then there's the new store phenomenon. Here I could call it the Kohls vs Elder Beerman department store. It's the old established store competing with the fresh new building and different buying style, special sales style, new employees, of the Kohls store. People flock to the Kohls store and the Elder Beerman at the end of the plaza is quiet. The management of EB (GM in this case) didn't adjust. It has the weight of UAW around its neck, but it didn't adjust.
My big concern now is that because of the politics being played in DC the czar annointed to watch over the GM reformulation will protect the UAW noose around the GM neck. GM needs a full, fresh start without the UAW. GM already has the problem of older plants and too many of them that it owns around the country. It would be nice for GM to be able to have new employees, many of whom might have been UAW members--GM wouldn't have to discriminate as do the foreign brands when selecting employees to avoid union-liking employees.
So you "ran" a UAW plant thus you probably had some grievances filed against you for violating the contract. Now the missing pieces of the puzzle have completed the big picture of your hate.
I think you are getting your posters mixed up. That would be Motorcity that ran a UAW shop and was not pleased with the work ethic.
It's going to take a real patriot to stand up and say enough is well enough!
I don't think you would like that either. A Duncan Hunter would not bail out a company run into the ground by poor management and dead weight Union. GM cannot even compete when they have all the advantages and an uneven playing field to their advantage.
Daddy what is a factory?
A place where people work while they are going to school to get a better job. The UAW destroyed most of the manufacturing in the USA. They believed a line worker in a factory should make as much as someone with 8 years of college. Then retire after 25 years with the same pay and benefits. The UAW leadership did not have the brain power to realize you cannot do heavy type work until normal retirement age of 65.
I agree Wagoner made some mistakes BUT it's not his fault
No it is never anyone's fault in the Domestic auto industry. Always some other outside force that brought them down. How you cannot see that GM was destroyed by itself is incredible. It was a joint effort of the UAW and management. If it is not the UAW then why is GM doing so well in China. It seems they are buying Buicks in China at a very rapid pace. They passed the USA up in sales the first quarter. Must be someone living in a hut with a Buick parked out front.
Which brings up something we saw yesterday. A lady was loading her daughter into an H2 Hummer bright yellow. They came out of the most run down house in that neighborhood. There are poor people in the USA buying Hummers. It shoots your "Who will buy the Cars" line of rhetoric down.
Who predicted $4-5 dollar gas??? I sure in the hell didn't.
That would be Wagoner's job. GM, Ford and Chrysler missed it the last time. Though Ford seems a bit closer to getting it right than the other two. I think if you could get the straight scoop, Soros was one of the big beneficiaries of the Oil run up and back down. He made money for his Quantum Hedge Fund in both directions.
Well that is because you are drunk on the Toyota Kool-Aid and are delusional to believe your Sequoia is superior to a Big 3 SUV despite all the evidence that says different.
Hardly. This is probably my last Toyota. At least the doors fit right. I think my next vehicle will be German in origin. It will be a diesel. I want to be ready when the diesel made from Natural Gas becomes available. I think the Algae will be after that. The Germans make the best small diesels in the World. It will NOT be made by someone that thinks I owe him a living, such as your misguided UAW workers.
Some will have committed suicide. Many more may end up in prison.
Are you referring to executives like the CFO or Fannie Mae and Madoff?
"What's a GM?" The emaciated homeless man looked up at me with his glassy eyes and a vacant expression and replied with a mouth full of rotting teeth that kept him constantly in excruciating pain, "GM was the most wonderful thing in the world!"
GM stands for Grand Mess. The rotting teeth is hardly anyone's problem except the person their mouth resides in. I know as I have more crowns than original teeth. At about $600 per out of pocket with Union dental plan. No excuse and not the tax payers problem. Go to Mexico for cheap dental if you cannot afford the prices here. More UAW entitlement BS.
What is unbelievable is the fact that you take those figures thrown out by Gettlefinger as true. He fails to mention the current 10%-15% of the price of a car going to health care for the retirees.
Why should the consumer feel obligated to pay 15% extra so a UAW retiree can have a gold plated health care plan. Especially when the consumer is more than likely paying a big premium each month for his family. More UAW entitlement.
My friend, you've been here for 2 months. I've frequented these forums for almost 11 years. Most of us come here looking for some diversion - not because we think that our scribblings will change the world.
Don't take this stuff seriously. You'll have more fun that way.
“With employees effectively sharing the risks, this could play to the advantage of the ailing company,” said Howard Wheeldon, a senior strategist at BGC Partners LP in London. The UAW role, if confirmed, may be the only “feasible way of moving forward,” he added."
The Caliber would have to go as well. A proper Corolla-esque car, (or up the ante to a Civic-like car) should be developed in it's place. The 300 and Charger are nice but so long in the tooth they look like Sabre-toothed tigers. Oh, and the Avenger and Sebring - redesign these two pronto! Get them up to at LEAST Chevrolet Malibu standards. The interiors look Soviet-bloc!
Depends. If he's a bum who comes in drunk every other day, I would fire him for the good of the company. His wage rate would depend on his job and skill level.
The U.S. Treasury, which still is negotiating on Chrysler’s behalf with the company’s secured lenders, has little room to give the banks more equity. Fiat SpA would get 20 percent of the company to start, with the ability to increase ownership to 35 percent by hitting performance goals. The Treasury would keep 10 percent.
I have some questions about the math involved. The UAW retirees will get 55%. Fiat can have up to 35% and the Treasury keeps 10%. !00% right? What about the fact that Daimler still owns 19%. And is Cerberus giving Chrysler away? Or did the Car Czar forget about the Daimler holdings. What about the bondholders?
DETROIT — With Chrysler's deadline to complete a deal with Italian automaker Fiat rapidly approaching, bondholders offered a counterproposal Friday that would cut the company's debt to $3.5 billion, says a source.
Chrysler owes the Bond holders $6.9 Billion. If the UAW gets 55% for their $8.9 B that would mean the bondholders should get an equivalent percentage. That on top of all the other grubby fingers in the pie make for a real interesting mix. They owe US $4B so we should get closer to 25%. Talk about fuzzy math. I can see why the UAW was unanimus in their acceptance of the proposal.
I think you are getting your posters mixed up. That would be Motorcity that ran a UAW shop and was not pleased with the work ethic.
My mistake. If that is the case then I owe Marsha7 an apology.
I don't think you would like that either. A Duncan Hunter would not bail out a company run into the ground by poor management and dead weight Union. GM cannot even compete when they have all the advantages and an uneven playing field to their advantage.
Duncan Hunter would allow globalist to run his country into the ground either gagrice. GM would be competing on a level playing field I would assume in a Hunter administration and Mr. Hunter also believes americans shouldn't have to compete with the 3rd world in wages.
A place where people work while they are going to school to get a better job. The UAW destroyed most of the manufacturing in the USA.
That is such hawg wash gagrice. The UAW isn't some huge international union with large membership groups in all 50 states. The Teamsters dwarf the UAW. It is utter non-sense to blame the UAW for the manufacturing base. You can point that finger at your neocon globalist buddies. :mad:
No it is never anyone's fault in the Domestic auto industry. Always some other outside force that brought them down. How you cannot see that GM was destroyed by itself is incredible. It was a joint effort of the UAW and management.
I never said that they shouldn't share in the blame but what is even more incredible is so many sheeple are ignorant and don't want to blame outside forces like our domestic economic policy that scews the worker and american business that wants to build here and puts the interests of these huge multi-national corporations first. :mad:
Which brings up something we saw yesterday. A lady was loading her daughter into an H2 Hummer bright yellow. They came out of the most run down house in that neighborhood. There are poor people in the USA buying Hummers. It shoots your "Who will buy the Cars" line of rhetoric down.
Are you really that naive??? Certain groups has a history of buying fancy cars while living in slummy trailers. On average most normal people will put there home above there automobile. The fact remains that we are selling half the vehicles we were under Clinton. Peoples disposable income is in the toilet and because you live in a fantasy world in wealthy San Diego your views of reality are severely distorted. Do yourself a favor and get you a TV so you can see the real world that you are missing. Maybe if you could see the struggles of what normal people are going through your views might be different?
That would be Wagoner's job. GM, Ford and Chrysler missed it the last time. Though Ford seems a bit closer to getting it right than the other two. I think if you could get the straight scoop, Soros was one of the big beneficiaries of the Oil run up and back down. He made money for his Quantum Hedge Fund in both directions.
Last time I checked Wagoner was never a member of a large gas firm or a sitting member on OPEC. :confuse:
Hardly. This is probably my last Toyota. At least the doors fit right. I think my next vehicle will be German in origin. It will be a diesel. I want to be ready when the diesel made from Natural Gas becomes available. I think the Algae will be after that. The Germans make the best small diesels in the World. It will NOT be made by someone that thinks I owe him a living, such as your misguided UAW workers.
What is freaken hilarious is the German unions are more militant and have superior benefits compared to the UAW workers. A German autoworker works 35 hours a week. Every weekend off and gets a months worth of vacation + holidays, sick time/personal leave, and good German Beer served at work. I think the UAW workers would love to trade places. My great uncle who was a Tool & Die worker at GM, was shipped to do some work in Germany for GM. He said you couldn't ask for a better lifestyle than what they got. I guess on a positive note I'd rather see you buy German than Japanese.
Daimler got rid of their 19% yesterday or the day before.
Sounds like there's a deal in the works that may keep Chrysler out of bankruptcy entirely. Was just getting ready to post a link about it over in the Chrysler Allies With Fiat discussion.
Bondholders depending on the UAW for their interest. Could be interesting. :shades:
I think the UAW workers would gladly pay for there own healthcare like you if they could have your pension plan and I assume your company matched your 401K, no?
What is unbelievable is the fact that you take those figures thrown out by Gettlefinger as true. He fails to mention the current 10%-15% of the price of a car going to health care for the retirees.
You again are hilarious gagrice. The 8.4% includes all pay and benefits. Also it wasn't Gettlefinger that came up with that figure as it was Harbor Research.
Why should the consumer feel obligated to pay 15% extra so a UAW retiree can have a gold plated health care plan. Especially when the consumer is more than likely paying a big premium each month for his family. More UAW entitlement.
Well the same could be said about the consumers of your telephone company that paid an extra % that gets passed down to the consumer for your fat teamster pension check. :confuse: Gagrice seriously you need to turn Hannity off.
Depends. If he's a bum who comes in drunk every other day, I would fire him for the good of the company. His wage rate would depend on his job and skill level.
I can't believe I am reading that from you. Wait till Rocky sees this. You will have a contract out on you. One for all means you protect that drunks job, even if it means going on strike. It is the UAW work rules more than the high wages that have crippled the D3. It is the protectionism of incompetence and cronyism that permeates the UAW. Not just the UAW. I have seen it in the IBEW, Carpenters and Teamsters also. The IBEW in Alaska is the worst I have witnessed personally. Even though I am thankful for my Union retirement. As a board member and a shop steward, I was on the other side of the fence many times with our Union Leaders.
I have no tolerance for drug or alcohol abuse regardless of whether it occurs at home or in the workplace. That intoxicated worker is putting himself, his co-workers, the plant, and the product in peril.
If this worker is a low-level grunt like a materials handler or assembler, he'd be immediately terminated with extreme prejudice. If he's a highly-skilled industrial trades worker, engineer, or talented designer, I'd give him the chance of going to rehab to clean himself up or get canned!
I can't believe I am reading that from you. Wait till Rocky sees this. You will have a contract out on you.
I actually agree with lemko and it suprises me that you think I wouldn't??? :confuse: I assume lemko's wage rate and skill level view is a lot different than the minimum wage that you want to pay everyone.
One for all means you protect that drunks job, even if it means going on strike.
You send the drunk to rehab and if he doesn't clean up his act he will get the door. It happened to a UAW Millwright at Delphi. He got the door!!!!
It is the UAW work rules more than the high wages that have crippled the D3. It is the protectionism of incompetence and cronyism that permeates the UAW. Not just the UAW. I have seen it in the IBEW, Carpenters and Teamsters also. The IBEW in Alaska is the worst I have witnessed personally. Even though I am thankful for my Union retirement. As a board member and a shop steward, I was on the other side of the fence many times with our Union Leaders.
I agree that some "work rules" are a little ridiculous. Not all unions are perfect gagrice. I think the work method that is catching fire is the ones that build the Cadillac's in Lansing, MI that have very flexible work rules and people work in small groups which reduce injury rates by quite a bit and increase productivity.
I think the UAW workers would gladly pay for there own healthcare like you if they could have your pension plan and I assume your company matched your 401K, no?
That was the choice of the UAW to entrust the Pension to the D3. The Teamster's did not want to leave that to a corporation that could be gone tomorrow taking the Pension funds with them to the Caymans. I did not gladly pay my own health care until I went on Medicare. It still costs me $126 per month for Medicare. Most retirees on just SS are paying even more than that. Yes they matched our 401K. Not by choice, it was negotiated in our contract. Without a strike. It was supply and demand. It ain't easy finding someone to spend half their life in the Arctic away from family and friends. The unskilled up here are mostly making $10-$12 per hour. In the 1980s the same jobs were paying $18 per hour. Your beloved 1990s was a real downer for some of the USA.
"please explain how a UAW worker is supposedly screwing up all these cars that are inspected multiple times down the assembly line if they are such utter failures???"...your theory of multiple inspection must be false, as many posters here have written about doors that don't fit, windows that jump out of track, and cars that, for one reason or another, do not work well...
Remember, rocky, you can SAY anything you want...the American people have deserted YOUR UAW and your Big 3 car companies FOR A REASON, and I truly doubt it was poor management, I would bet on poor quality or poor workmanship...you can argue with me, but you have no argument for them...you are simply like the boat captain, who, while his ankles are getting wet on the deck, denies that there is a leak on the boat...it is so obvious, you really are incapable of seeing it...if there were the inspections you claim, then why did such junk leave the factories for decades???...or, the inspection do exist, but they are performed by the drunk and worthless UAW people on Monday and Friday, so they canot tell that the door does not close because they cannot stand up long enough to close a door...either way, you lose...worse yet, as the buyers, either way WE lose...so we sought out the alternative and found it better...
Second quote: "Certain groups has a history of buying fancy cars while living in slummy trailers"...I see you, like me, have lived in Detroit...if ANY group of people would live in a thatch hut and drive new Cadillacs it was the people of Detroit...I saw it with my own eyes as we drove around Detroit on occasion...houses that looked like they survived the blast at Hiroshima, and 1 or 2 brand new Caddys or Town Cars out front...rocky, you have described your own to a "T" and you don't even know it...
No, I did not run a UAW shop...ever...apology accepted...
I did just think of a possible exception...they inspect 1 of every 10 vehicles, but when they were UAW made, any fool would know you must inspect 11 out of every 10 vehicles (not a misprint, just sarcasm)...
Problem is, rock, that buyers experiences out there fly in the face of your assertions, and the experiences outweigh your assertions by a million to one...they deserted the Big 3 because of THEIR experiences with Big 3, not your assertions...and the desertion is a fact, while your assertions are either fantasy in your mind, or just wishful thinking on your part, because what you say about it just ain't so...if it was, buyers would be deserting Honda and Toyota in droves, and they are not doing so...
One day, you WILL wake up, I pormise, and understand what the REALITY is, and is isn't what your mind thinks it is...pleasant dreams...
What is freaken hilarious is the German unions are more militant and have superior benefits compared to the UAW workers. A German autoworker works 35 hours a week. Every weekend off and gets a months worth of vacation + holidays, sick time/personal leave, and good German Beer served at work. I think the UAW workers would love to trade places. My great uncle who was a Tool & Die worker at GM, was shipped to do some work in Germany for GM. He said you couldn't ask for a better lifestyle than what they got. I guess on a positive note I'd rather see you buy German than Japanese.
Not sure of your point. If the D3 was building cars with UAW labor as good as the Germans we would not be having this conversation. Do the Germans have a Ponzi scheme for the retirees. I would bet money they do not have the same gold plated health care the current UAW retirees have.
If your Uncle wants to go he should. They are losing more people than are coming into Germany. There must be some unrest in that country.
You send the drunk to rehab and if he doesn't clean up his act he will get the door.
And why should the company pay $100,000 for rehab to a UAW employee that is likely to fall back into the same pattern? Rehab is somewhere around 15% successful. Get rid of the guy or gal and if they end up on skid row, it is not anyone but their own doing. You work for the oil companies in Alaska and it is ZERO tolerance. One drink on their property and you are on the next flight out. That is for the entire time of your shift, 24/7.
your theory of multiple inspection must be false, as many posters here have written about doors that don't fit, windows that jump out of track, and cars that, for one reason or another, do not work well...
That boils down to engineering. Weak door hinges which gagrice was talking about on his vehicle had a history of sagging down. The UAW worker didn't design those door hinges. They were crap which I agree. I owned a GMT-800 Chevy Silverado Sidestep and I can say as a owner I wasn'tsuper impressed with the fit and finish of those trucks. My dads 98' was better made and the 2007+ GMT-900's are light year ahead of any truck IMHO on the road. :shades:
Remember, rocky, you can SAY anything you want...the American people have deserted YOUR UAW and your Big 3 car companies FOR A REASON, and I truly doubt it was poor management, I would bet on poor quality or poor workmanship...you can argue with me, but you have no argument for them...you are simply like the boat captain, who, while his ankles are getting wet on the deck, denies that there is a leak on the boat...it is so obvious, you really are incapable of seeing it...if there were the inspections you claim, then why did such junk leave the factories for decades???
Not all the parts in those vehicles were junk. You are incapable of realizing that also. I have many family members and friends that have a ton of miles of there GM products. The junk that did leave was poorly designed. Just like the first generation of Allison Transmissions that had metal shavings that caused failures. How is that the UAW's fault??? You are just so angry with hate you blame UAW workers without thinking about the orgin of the parts and why certain stuff was allowed to be shipped. :confuse:
or, the inspection do exist, but they are performed by the drunk and worthless UAW people on Monday and Friday, so they canot tell that the door does not close because they cannot stand up long enough to close a door...either way, you lose...worse yet, as the buyers, either way WE lose...so we sought out the alternative and found it better...
It is laughable that you still live in the past. Did some UAW workers show up drunk at work, you betchya. Does it occur now? Not without consquences. It is a whole different world than the 1970's and 80's. The Big 3 make many fantastic cars today. Are all of em' perfect??? Nope. However they have caught and in some cases exceed there competitions quality.
I see you, like me, have lived in Detroit...if ANY group of people would live in a thatch hut and drive new Cadillacs it was the people of Detroit...I saw it with my own eyes as we drove around Detroit on occasion...houses that looked like they survived the blast at Hiroshima, and 1 or 2 brand new Caddys or Town Cars out front...rocky, you have described your own to a "T" and you don't even know it...
Umm I've never lived in Detroit. I have always lived in Western Michigan outside of my 5 year run in Texas.
No, I did not run a UAW shop...ever...apology accepted...
Thanks......
I did just think of a possible exception...they inspect 1 of every 10 vehicles, but when they were UAW made, any fool would know you must inspect 11 out of every 10 vehicles (not a misprint, just sarcasm)...
LOL, you are something else. I will leave it at that!!!
Problem is, rock, that buyers experiences out there fly in the face of your assertions, and the experiences outweigh your assertions by a million to one...they deserted the Big 3 because of THEIR experiences with Big 3, not your assertions...and the desertion is a fact, while your assertions are either fantasy in your mind, or just wishful thinking on your part, because what you say about it just ain't so...if it was, buyers would be deserting Honda and Toyota in droves, and they are not doing so...
If that is the case then why is GM the #1 brand sold in the U.S. and apparently will continue that market share lock??? ;confuse:
One day, you WILL wake up, I pormise, and understand what the REALITY is, and is isn't what your mind thinks it is...pleasant dreams...
Not sure of your point. If the D3 was building cars with UAW labor as good as the Germans we would not be having this conversation.
They are now. The problem was GM vehicles weren't engineered to German standards. Have you ever heard of the coin phrase "German Engineering"???? You do pay a premium for that standard though.
Do the Germans have a Ponzi scheme for the retirees. I would bet money they do not have the same gold plated health care the current UAW retirees have.
They have Germany's gold plated national healthcare plan. There is no need for a crappy UAW plan in Germany. That is why Germany is the standard of the world for many things.
If your Uncle wants to go he should. They are losing more people than are coming into Germany. There must be some unrest in that country.
They are experiencing a illegal immigration problem like us. Not enough jobs to go around thus people are leaving. It's a damn shame. When WWII was over Germany lost a lot of its nationalism and now days as Fintail I assume will back me on they have been neutered by the radicals in that country because if you have any pride for Deutchland you must be a [non-permissible content removed]. :sick: FYI - My uncle is retired and I believe has visited Germany like last year.
And why should the company pay $100,000 for rehab to a UAW employee that is likely to fall back into the same pattern? Rehab is somewhere around 15% successful. Get rid of the guy or gal and if they end up on skid row, it is not anyone but their own doing. You work for the oil companies in Alaska and it is ZERO tolerance. One drink on their property and you are on the next flight out. That is for the entire time of your shift, 24/7.
I have a hard time believing the success rate is only 15% that the guy/gal won't show up to work drunk again. I'm not saying these people will quit drinking but they can successfully make it 8 hours without a drink. The zero tolerance policy at the oil companies is unbelievable. I guess if they were paying me $180K a year to not have a drink well I could follow there rules.
Remember, rocky, you can SAY anything you want...the American people have deserted YOUR UAW and your Big 3 car companies FOR A REASON, and I truly doubt it was poor management, I would bet on poor quality or poor workmanship...you can argue with me, but you have no argument for them...you are simply like the boat captain, who, while his ankles are getting wet on the deck, denies that there is a leak on the boat...it is so obvious, you really are incapable of seeing it...if there were the inspections you claim, then why did such junk leave the factories for decades???...or, the inspection do exist, but they are performed by the drunk and worthless UAW people on Monday and Friday, so they canot tell that the door does not close because they cannot stand up long enough to close a door...either way, you lose...worse yet, as the buyers, either way WE lose...so we sought out the alternative and found it better...
You nailed it about the marketplace. People vote with their feet and they have done so overwhelmingly with solid cars from Japan and other countries. That isn't just some magic wand or spell that the foreign makers have cast upon the buying public. It's experience and reputation talking. The only folks buying American cars these days are those that work at American companies and their families. That just won't cut it and hasn't cut it. Yes, there are some decent American cars out there and if the price was right, I might jump on one but the dealers are holding out and not offering any "value" deals that I can see so I'll pass. Frankly, it's too much money to spend on something just to make me feel "patriotic". Besides, do I buy a Ford Fusion, an "American" product built in Mexico or a Honda, built in America but by a Japanese company? If I narrowed the search to simply american built/american company, I lose a lot of options.
Frankly, I have issues with unions (and I live in Michigan) and, all else being equal, would rather support a right-to-work state that employs Americans not beholden to unions anyway.
Two down, one to go--Ford...This nationalized auto industry scheme puts Ford in a bad spot..Why???? How could they survive w/o the Govt's guidance???? This is a way to funnel money to another community organization, UAW has been paid back for supporting the Change in DC..
Your tax money will be lavishly spent to support GM and Chrysler w/o any congressional input..The GM bondholders really got screwed in this govt takeover, a dime for every dollar invested..
Our govt will do everything they can to bankrupt Ford. The grunts are running the show,here I thought the Mafia was dead!!!!
Bankruptry was sidetracked by Washington which usurped our legal system and took over. It's called "Communism". Ever drive a car produced by a "Pinky", are there Russian built cars being sold in the USA???? No, but they are coming!!!
My 06 Pontiac GPGT is a goner, will trade it on a 2010 Fusion Sport ASAP.., the 09 Bullitt will have a good friend...No Pinky cars in my garage..past or present..
The UAW is all political!!!! Do I sound biased????
The Auto industry was a fun ride for me for many years, now all I have to do is unload my Michigan properties at a great loss and gamble in my next favorite playground, the "stock market". Remember---the successful get punished because somehow they did something illegal, and
not to say you too have no inside knowlage of the UAW but you are wrong ,to think the productivity of american workers is slack to say the least . Lazy incompitant uneducated from my thinking and holding a Job with a pension and being told the Mexicans do a better Job must be degrading. Then the Government tells you you are not fit to have a job because the Taxes you have payed don't mean anything, Then your Neighbors tell you you build a bad product and should be treated like garbage while your Neighbors buy off shore and drive Nissan Honda and Toyota and point the finger at you and laugh,makes you feel worm all over. Thanks Neighbor.
The only folks buying American cars these days are those that work at American companies and their families. I use to work for EU company and drive GM car :shades:
They were crap which I agree. I owned a GMT-800 Chevy Silverado Sidestep and I can say as a owner I wasn'tsuper impressed with the fit and finish of those trucks. My dads 98' was better made and the 2007+ GMT-900's are light year ahead of any truck IMHO on the road.
Why should I believe the 2007 and newer trucks are any better built. I drove the new GMC and it was noisy by my standards. Turned me off before we had 2 blocks. My experience parallels yours and your dad's. My 98 Suburban built in Mexico was much better built than my UAW built GMC 2005 Sierra.
It is laughable that you still live in the past. Did some UAW workers show up drunk at work, you betchya. Does it occur now? Not without consquences. It is a whole different world than the 1970's and 80's
GM and the UAW are paying now for the sins in their past. That is just the way it is. It took me 30 years to forgive Toyota for their shoddy engine in the 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser. Why should the consumer treat GM any differently? Personally I don't think that GM has gotten better. I think Toyota starting with their new models in 2007 came down to GM level. The 2008 Sequoia and Tundra are not only ugly, they are not in a league with the 2007 models. I deal fairly and have given my share to GM.
If that is the case then why is GM the #1 brand sold in the U.S.
If you think going from 50% to 18% market share in two decades is a bragging right. I'm happy for you. They will be lucky to have 15% by the end of the decade.
Frankly, I have issues with unions (and I live in Michigan) and, all else being equal, would rather support a right-to-work state that employs Americans not beholden to unions anyway.
That would go a long ways in restoring a good work ethic and jobs to one of the hardest hit states in this recession. Good to see not everyone in Michigan feels the rest of US owe them a living.
With more globalization, the larger and more powereful these multinational corporations get. And the more demanding of their employees they get. You don't like the way they do things, their attitude is "Too bad! Maybe we'll have to move even more of our company elsewhere?" It is ridiculous that some naive people believe most unions are causing wages to become too high and "uncompetitive". The only reason these large companies have some of their operations in the USA, Canada etc. is because it is too expensive and/or inconvenient for them to have EVERYTHING overseas where labor is cheaper.
A good example is Wal~Mart. They rely on all their retail locations being close to their consumer. So they can't move everything overseas or they probably would have!
Big business keeps their interests at the forefront, maximizes THEIR profits, and keeps the little guy down.
So the only protection the average hourly worker, the "little guy," has is if he or she belongs to a UNION!
... the only protection the average hourly worker, the "little guy," has is if he or she belongs to a UNION!
the only protection the average hourly worker, the "little guy," has is if he or she belongs to a UNION! gets an education!
There. Fixed it for you.
There will always be jobs for people who have something to contribute to a company.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows the following for March 2009 (Seasonally Adjusted):
Educational Level---------------Unemployment Rate Less than HS-------------------- 13.3% HS Degree------------------------ 9.0% Some College------------------- 7.2% BA Degree or higher---------- 4.3%
So the only protection the average hourly worker, the "little guy," has is if he or she belongs to a UNION!
Yeah, right! That's the attitude that's put my state (Michigan) in the toilet these days. I think if you polled the non-union auto workers from the right-to-work States about which companies they would rather be working for right now, they might have a different take on things. While all autos in general are down in sales, I'd cast my lot with Toyota, Honda, and other non-domestic.
I'd say Philadelphia is a good distance from the Midwest and the ratio is more like 70:30 in favor of domestics.
Granted, my thoughts are only an estimate based on what I see while travelling but I'd say your "estimates" are WAY off based on domestics having less than a 50% market share with those results skewed by midwest areas probably having the highest % of domestic.
If they wouldn't of went on strike they would of got nothing. You aren't going to convince people when you the boss are pulling down $15 million a year while asking your employees to forgive everything they faught for at the bargaining table because "the man" screwed up with product launches. The UAW doesn't market Big 3 vehicles nor designs or engineers them. They screwed up in the 1980's and made some very bad vehicles and when they broke they didn't take care of the customer despite having a majority share of the market. What pisses me off is that corporate america expects the working man to always swallow the largest burden for there screw ups while they keep there jobs, corporate jet, multi-million dollar salary. It's just not fair and despite what you and others think you will never convince me to believe otherwise.
Yep, unions are great. I heard on the radio here in So Cal the other day that the "teacher of the year" in a local school district, awarded only two months ago, was LAID off due to budget cuts! That's because this teacher was low on the seniority scale. Let's not brown nose and let the excellent ones rise to the top! Reward mediocrity and laziness at all costs! At least the old dog teachers with all those years of experience got to keep their jobs....
Why should I believe the 2007 and newer trucks are any better built. I drove the new GMC and it was noisy by my standards. Turned me off before we had 2 blocks. My experience parallels yours and your dad's. My 98 Suburban built in Mexico was much better built than my UAW built GMC 2005 Sierra.
I have driven a few 2007+ Silverado's and was impressed with each one of them. I think the GMT-900 is the best made truck in the world.
GM and the UAW are paying now for the sins in their past. That is just the way it is. It took me 30 years to forgive Toyota for their shoddy engine in the 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser. Why should the consumer treat GM any differently? Personally I don't think that GM has gotten better. I think Toyota starting with their new models in 2007 came down to GM level. The 2008 Sequoia and Tundra are not only ugly, they are not in a league with the 2007 models. I deal fairly and have given my share to GM.
Outside of the door hinges on the drivers side was there anything else that went wrong???
If you think going from 50% to 18% market share in two decades is a bragging right. I'm happy for you. They will be lucky to have 15% by the end of the decade.
Not bragging rights. It is sad what has happened. We were on the right track until the 2008 crash. :sick:
Comments
I'm not sure it would have turned out to be Xanadu for GM during the last 30 years. I posted a review of the foreign car and plant development here earlier. Can't find it. It must have been removed.
The management of GM has as much culpability in failing to adjust as the UAW did. The Governments at all levels allowed foreign cars to compete with help of tax benefits and all. Look at what Alabama spent per worker in the Mercedes plant that was built. While the government is encouraging other companies to move production overseas with tax breaks, the local governments are buying jobs with local taxpayer money.
Then there's the new store phenomenon. Here I could call it the Kohls vs Elder Beerman department store. It's the old established store competing with the fresh new building and different buying style, special sales style, new employees, of the Kohls store. People flock to the Kohls store and the Elder Beerman at the end of the plaza is quiet. The management of EB (GM in this case) didn't adjust. It has the weight of UAW around its neck, but it didn't adjust.
My big concern now is that because of the politics being played in DC the czar annointed to watch over the GM reformulation will protect the UAW noose around the GM neck. GM needs a full, fresh start without the UAW. GM already has the problem of older plants and too many of them that it owns around the country. It would be nice for GM to be able to have new employees, many of whom might have been UAW members--GM wouldn't have to discriminate as do the foreign brands when selecting employees to avoid union-liking employees.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They took our jerbs!
-Rocky
I think you are getting your posters mixed up. That would be Motorcity that ran a UAW shop and was not pleased with the work ethic.
It's going to take a real patriot to stand up and say enough is well enough!
I don't think you would like that either. A Duncan Hunter would not bail out a company run into the ground by poor management and dead weight Union. GM cannot even compete when they have all the advantages and an uneven playing field to their advantage.
Daddy what is a factory?
A place where people work while they are going to school to get a better job. The UAW destroyed most of the manufacturing in the USA. They believed a line worker in a factory should make as much as someone with 8 years of college. Then retire after 25 years with the same pay and benefits. The UAW leadership did not have the brain power to realize you cannot do heavy type work until normal retirement age of 65.
I agree Wagoner made some mistakes BUT it's not his fault
No it is never anyone's fault in the Domestic auto industry. Always some other outside force that brought them down. How you cannot see that GM was destroyed by itself is incredible. It was a joint effort of the UAW and management. If it is not the UAW then why is GM doing so well in China. It seems they are buying Buicks in China at a very rapid pace. They passed the USA up in sales the first quarter. Must be someone living in a hut with a Buick parked out front.
Which brings up something we saw yesterday. A lady was loading her daughter into an H2 Hummer bright yellow. They came out of the most run down house in that neighborhood. There are poor people in the USA buying Hummers. It shoots your "Who will buy the Cars" line of rhetoric down.
Who predicted $4-5 dollar gas??? I sure in the hell didn't.
That would be Wagoner's job. GM, Ford and Chrysler missed it the last time. Though Ford seems a bit closer to getting it right than the other two. I think if you could get the straight scoop, Soros was one of the big beneficiaries of the Oil run up and back down. He made money for his Quantum Hedge Fund in both directions.
Well that is because you are drunk on the Toyota Kool-Aid and are delusional to believe your Sequoia is superior to a Big 3 SUV despite all the evidence that says different.
Hardly. This is probably my last Toyota. At least the doors fit right. I think my next vehicle will be German in origin. It will be a diesel. I want to be ready when the diesel made from Natural Gas becomes available. I think the Algae will be after that. The Germans make the best small diesels in the World. It will NOT be made by someone that thinks I owe him a living, such as your misguided UAW workers.
Are you referring to executives like the CFO or Fannie Mae and Madoff?
"What's a GM?" The emaciated homeless man looked up at me with his glassy eyes and a vacant expression and replied with a mouth full of rotting teeth that kept him constantly in excruciating pain, "GM was the most wonderful thing in the world!"
GM stands for Grand Mess. The rotting teeth is hardly anyone's problem except the person their mouth resides in. I know as I have more crowns than original teeth. At about $600 per out of pocket with Union dental plan. No excuse and not the tax payers problem. Go to Mexico for cheap dental if you cannot afford the prices here. More UAW entitlement BS.
What is unbelievable is the fact that you take those figures thrown out by Gettlefinger as true. He fails to mention the current 10%-15% of the price of a car going to health care for the retirees.
Why should the consumer feel obligated to pay 15% extra so a UAW retiree can have a gold plated health care plan. Especially when the consumer is more than likely paying a big premium each month for his family. More UAW entitlement.
Don't take this stuff seriously. You'll have more fun that way.
Not after 1980.
UAW Said to Get 55% Chrysler Ownership, Board Seats (Bloomberg)
Dodge Nitro
Dodge Journey
Jeep Patriot
Jeep Compass
Jeep Commander
The Caliber would have to go as well. A proper Corolla-esque car, (or up the ante to a Civic-like car) should be developed in it's place. The 300 and Charger are nice but so long in the tooth they look like Sabre-toothed tigers. Oh, and the Avenger and Sebring - redesign these two pronto! Get them up to at LEAST Chevrolet Malibu standards. The interiors look Soviet-bloc!
Would you fire your buddy on the line?
Would you hire your buddy at a lower tier wage rate?
I have some questions about the math involved. The UAW retirees will get 55%. Fiat can have up to 35% and the Treasury keeps 10%. !00% right? What about the fact that Daimler still owns 19%. And is Cerberus giving Chrysler away? Or did the Car Czar forget about the Daimler holdings. What about the bondholders?
DETROIT — With Chrysler's deadline to complete a deal with Italian automaker Fiat rapidly approaching, bondholders offered a counterproposal Friday that would cut the company's debt to $3.5 billion, says a source.
Chrysler owes the Bond holders $6.9 Billion. If the UAW gets 55% for their $8.9 B that would mean the bondholders should get an equivalent percentage. That on top of all the other grubby fingers in the pie make for a real interesting mix. They owe US $4B so we should get closer to 25%. Talk about fuzzy math. I can see why the UAW was unanimus in their acceptance of the proposal.
My mistake. If that is the case then I owe Marsha7 an apology.
I don't think you would like that either. A Duncan Hunter would not bail out a company run into the ground by poor management and dead weight Union. GM cannot even compete when they have all the advantages and an uneven playing field to their advantage.
Duncan Hunter would allow globalist to run his country into the ground either gagrice. GM would be competing on a level playing field I would assume in a Hunter administration and Mr. Hunter also believes americans shouldn't have to compete with the 3rd world in wages.
A place where people work while they are going to school to get a better job. The UAW destroyed most of the manufacturing in the USA.
That is such hawg wash gagrice. The UAW isn't some huge international union with large membership groups in all 50 states. The Teamsters dwarf the UAW.
No it is never anyone's fault in the Domestic auto industry. Always some other outside force that brought them down. How you cannot see that GM was destroyed by itself is incredible. It was a joint effort of the UAW and management.
I never said that they shouldn't share in the blame but what is even more incredible is so many sheeple are ignorant and don't want to blame outside forces like our domestic economic policy that scews the worker and american business that wants to build here and puts the interests of these huge multi-national corporations first. :mad:
Which brings up something we saw yesterday. A lady was loading her daughter into an H2 Hummer bright yellow. They came out of the most run down house in that neighborhood. There are poor people in the USA buying Hummers. It shoots your "Who will buy the Cars" line of rhetoric down.
Are you really that naive??? Certain groups has a history of buying fancy cars while living in slummy trailers. On average most normal people will put there home above there automobile. The fact remains that we are selling half the vehicles we were under Clinton. Peoples disposable income is in the toilet and because you live in a fantasy world in wealthy San Diego your views of reality are severely distorted. Do yourself a favor and get you a TV so you can see the real world that you are missing. Maybe if you could see the struggles of what normal people are going through your views might be different?
That would be Wagoner's job. GM, Ford and Chrysler missed it the last time. Though Ford seems a bit closer to getting it right than the other two. I think if you could get the straight scoop, Soros was one of the big beneficiaries of the Oil run up and back down. He made money for his Quantum Hedge Fund in both directions.
Last time I checked Wagoner was never a member of a large gas firm or a sitting member on OPEC. :confuse:
Hardly. This is probably my last Toyota. At least the doors fit right. I think my next vehicle will be German in origin. It will be a diesel. I want to be ready when the diesel made from Natural Gas becomes available. I think the Algae will be after that. The Germans make the best small diesels in the World. It will NOT be made by someone that thinks I owe him a living, such as your misguided UAW workers.
What is freaken hilarious is the German unions are more militant and have superior benefits compared to the UAW workers. A German autoworker works 35 hours a week. Every weekend off and gets a months worth of vacation + holidays, sick time/personal leave, and good German Beer served at work. I think the UAW workers would love to trade places. My great uncle who was a Tool & Die worker at GM, was shipped to do some work in Germany for GM. He said you couldn't ask for a better lifestyle than what they got. I guess on a positive note I'd rather see you buy German than Japanese.
-Rocky
Sounds like there's a deal in the works that may keep Chrysler out of bankruptcy entirely. Was just getting ready to post a link about it over in the Chrysler Allies With Fiat discussion.
Bondholders depending on the UAW for their interest. Could be interesting. :shades:
-Rocky
You again are hilarious gagrice. The 8.4% includes all pay and benefits. Also it wasn't Gettlefinger that came up with that figure as it was Harbor Research.
Why should the consumer feel obligated to pay 15% extra so a UAW retiree can have a gold plated health care plan. Especially when the consumer is more than likely paying a big premium each month for his family. More UAW entitlement.
Well the same could be said about the consumers of your telephone company that paid an extra % that gets passed down to the consumer for your fat teamster pension check. :confuse: Gagrice seriously you need to turn Hannity off.
-Rocky
I can't believe I am reading that from you. Wait till Rocky sees this. You will have a contract out on you. One for all means you protect that drunks job, even if it means going on strike. It is the UAW work rules more than the high wages that have crippled the D3. It is the protectionism of incompetence and cronyism that permeates the UAW. Not just the UAW. I have seen it in the IBEW, Carpenters and Teamsters also. The IBEW in Alaska is the worst I have witnessed personally. Even though I am thankful for my Union retirement. As a board member and a shop steward, I was on the other side of the fence many times with our Union Leaders.
Americans Must Take Back Gains
You mean we aren't going to write future history in here??? :P
-Rocky
If this worker is a low-level grunt like a materials handler or assembler, he'd be immediately terminated with extreme prejudice. If he's a highly-skilled industrial trades worker, engineer, or talented designer, I'd give him the chance of going to rehab to clean himself up or get canned!
-Rocky
I actually agree with lemko and it suprises me that you think I wouldn't??? :confuse: I assume lemko's wage rate and skill level view is a lot different than the minimum wage that you want to pay everyone.
One for all means you protect that drunks job, even if it means going on strike.
You send the drunk to rehab and if he doesn't clean up his act he will get the door. It happened to a UAW Millwright at Delphi. He got the door!!!!
It is the UAW work rules more than the high wages that have crippled the D3. It is the protectionism of incompetence and cronyism that permeates the UAW. Not just the UAW. I have seen it in the IBEW, Carpenters and Teamsters also. The IBEW in Alaska is the worst I have witnessed personally. Even though I am thankful for my Union retirement. As a board member and a shop steward, I was on the other side of the fence many times with our Union Leaders.
I agree that some "work rules" are a little ridiculous. Not all unions are perfect gagrice. I think the work method that is catching fire is the ones that build the Cadillac's in Lansing, MI that have very flexible work rules and people work in small groups which reduce injury rates by quite a bit and increase productivity.
-Rocky
-Rocky
That was the choice of the UAW to entrust the Pension to the D3. The Teamster's did not want to leave that to a corporation that could be gone tomorrow taking the Pension funds with them to the Caymans. I did not gladly pay my own health care until I went on Medicare. It still costs me $126 per month for Medicare. Most retirees on just SS are paying even more than that. Yes they matched our 401K. Not by choice, it was negotiated in our contract. Without a strike. It was supply and demand. It ain't easy finding someone to spend half their life in the Arctic away from family and friends. The unskilled up here are mostly making $10-$12 per hour. In the 1980s the same jobs were paying $18 per hour. Your beloved 1990s was a real downer for some of the USA.
Remember, rocky, you can SAY anything you want...the American people have deserted YOUR UAW and your Big 3 car companies FOR A REASON, and I truly doubt it was poor management, I would bet on poor quality or poor workmanship...you can argue with me, but you have no argument for them...you are simply like the boat captain, who, while his ankles are getting wet on the deck, denies that there is a leak on the boat...it is so obvious, you really are incapable of seeing it...if there were the inspections you claim, then why did such junk leave the factories for decades???...or, the inspection do exist, but they are performed by the drunk and worthless UAW people on Monday and Friday, so they canot tell that the door does not close because they cannot stand up long enough to close a door...either way, you lose...worse yet, as the buyers, either way WE lose...so we sought out the alternative and found it better...
Second quote: "Certain groups has a history of buying fancy cars while living in slummy trailers"...I see you, like me, have lived in Detroit...if ANY group of people would live in a thatch hut and drive new Cadillacs it was the people of Detroit...I saw it with my own eyes as we drove around Detroit on occasion...houses that looked like they survived the blast at Hiroshima, and 1 or 2 brand new Caddys or Town Cars out front...rocky, you have described your own to a "T" and you don't even know it...
No, I did not run a UAW shop...ever...apology accepted...
I did just think of a possible exception...they inspect 1 of every 10 vehicles, but when they were UAW made, any fool would know you must inspect 11 out of every 10 vehicles (not a misprint, just sarcasm)...
Problem is, rock, that buyers experiences out there fly in the face of your assertions, and the experiences outweigh your assertions by a million to one...they deserted the Big 3 because of THEIR experiences with Big 3, not your assertions...and the desertion is a fact, while your assertions are either fantasy in your mind, or just wishful thinking on your part, because what you say about it just ain't so...if it was, buyers would be deserting Honda and Toyota in droves, and they are not doing so...
One day, you WILL wake up, I pormise, and understand what the REALITY is, and is isn't what your mind thinks it is...pleasant dreams...
Not sure of your point. If the D3 was building cars with UAW labor as good as the Germans we would not be having this conversation. Do the Germans have a Ponzi scheme for the retirees. I would bet money they do not have the same gold plated health care the current UAW retirees have.
If your Uncle wants to go he should. They are losing more people than are coming into Germany. There must be some unrest in that country.
You send the drunk to rehab and if he doesn't clean up his act he will get the door.
And why should the company pay $100,000 for rehab to a UAW employee that is likely to fall back into the same pattern? Rehab is somewhere around 15% successful. Get rid of the guy or gal and if they end up on skid row, it is not anyone but their own doing. You work for the oil companies in Alaska and it is ZERO tolerance. One drink on their property and you are on the next flight out. That is for the entire time of your shift, 24/7.
That boils down to engineering. Weak door hinges which gagrice was talking about on his vehicle had a history of sagging down. The UAW worker didn't design those door hinges. They were crap which I agree. I owned a GMT-800 Chevy Silverado Sidestep and I can say as a owner I wasn'tsuper impressed with the fit and finish of those trucks. My dads 98' was better made and the 2007+ GMT-900's are light year ahead of any truck IMHO on the road. :shades:
Remember, rocky, you can SAY anything you want...the American people have deserted YOUR UAW and your Big 3 car companies FOR A REASON, and I truly doubt it was poor management, I would bet on poor quality or poor workmanship...you can argue with me, but you have no argument for them...you are simply like the boat captain, who, while his ankles are getting wet on the deck, denies that there is a leak on the boat...it is so obvious, you really are incapable of seeing it...if there were the inspections you claim, then why did such junk leave the factories for decades???
Not all the parts in those vehicles were junk. You are incapable of realizing that also. I have many family members and friends that have a ton of miles of there GM products. The junk that did leave was poorly designed. Just like the first generation of Allison Transmissions that had metal shavings that caused failures. How is that the UAW's fault??? You are just so angry with hate you blame UAW workers without thinking about the orgin of the parts and why certain stuff was allowed to be shipped. :confuse:
or, the inspection do exist, but they are performed by the drunk and worthless UAW people on Monday and Friday, so they canot tell that the door does not close because they cannot stand up long enough to close a door...either way, you lose...worse yet, as the buyers, either way WE lose...so we sought out the alternative and found it better...
It is laughable that you still live in the past. Did some UAW workers show up drunk at work, you betchya. Does it occur now? Not without consquences. It is a whole different world than the 1970's and 80's. The Big 3 make many fantastic cars today. Are all of em' perfect??? Nope. However they have caught and in some cases exceed there competitions quality.
I see you, like me, have lived in Detroit...if ANY group of people would live in a thatch hut and drive new Cadillacs it was the people of Detroit...I saw it with my own eyes as we drove around Detroit on occasion...houses that looked like they survived the blast at Hiroshima, and 1 or 2 brand new Caddys or Town Cars out front...rocky, you have described your own to a "T" and you don't even know it...
Umm I've never lived in Detroit. I have always lived in Western Michigan outside of my 5 year run in Texas.
No, I did not run a UAW shop...ever...apology accepted...
Thanks......
I did just think of a possible exception...they inspect 1 of every 10 vehicles, but when they were UAW made, any fool would know you must inspect 11 out of every 10 vehicles (not a misprint, just sarcasm)...
LOL, you are something else. I will leave it at that!!!
Problem is, rock, that buyers experiences out there fly in the face of your assertions, and the experiences outweigh your assertions by a million to one...they deserted the Big 3 because of THEIR experiences with Big 3, not your assertions...and the desertion is a fact, while your assertions are either fantasy in your mind, or just wishful thinking on your part, because what you say about it just ain't so...if it was, buyers would be deserting Honda and Toyota in droves, and they are not doing so...
If that is the case then why is GM the #1 brand sold in the U.S. and apparently will continue that market share lock??? ;confuse:
One day, you WILL wake up, I pormise, and understand what the REALITY is, and is isn't what your mind thinks it is...pleasant dreams...
Those feeling our mutual pal.....
-Rocky
They are now. The problem was GM vehicles weren't engineered to German standards. Have you ever heard of the coin phrase "German Engineering"???? You do pay a premium for that standard though.
Do the Germans have a Ponzi scheme for the retirees. I would bet money they do not have the same gold plated health care the current UAW retirees have.
They have Germany's gold plated national healthcare plan. There is no need for a crappy UAW plan in Germany. That is why Germany is the standard of the world for many things.
If your Uncle wants to go he should. They are losing more people than are coming into Germany. There must be some unrest in that country.
They are experiencing a illegal immigration problem like us. Not enough jobs to go around thus people are leaving. It's a damn shame. When WWII was over Germany lost a lot of its nationalism and now days as Fintail I assume will back me on they have been neutered by the radicals in that country because if you have any pride for Deutchland you must be a [non-permissible content removed]. :sick: FYI - My uncle is retired and I believe has visited Germany like last year.
And why should the company pay $100,000 for rehab to a UAW employee that is likely to fall back into the same pattern? Rehab is somewhere around 15% successful. Get rid of the guy or gal and if they end up on skid row, it is not anyone but their own doing. You work for the oil companies in Alaska and it is ZERO tolerance. One drink on their property and you are on the next flight out. That is for the entire time of your shift, 24/7.
I have a hard time believing the success rate is only 15% that the guy/gal won't show up to work drunk again. I'm not saying these people will quit drinking but they can successfully make it 8 hours without a drink. The zero tolerance policy at the oil companies is unbelievable. I guess if they were paying me $180K a year to not have a drink well I could follow there rules.
-Rocky
You nailed it about the marketplace. People vote with their feet and they have done so overwhelmingly with solid cars from Japan and other countries. That isn't just some magic wand or spell that the foreign makers have cast upon the buying public. It's experience and reputation talking. The only folks buying American cars these days are those that work at American companies and their families. That just won't cut it and hasn't cut it. Yes, there are some decent American cars out there and if the price was right, I might jump on one but the dealers are holding out and not offering any "value" deals that I can see so I'll pass. Frankly, it's too much money to spend on something just to make me feel "patriotic". Besides, do I buy a Ford Fusion, an "American" product built in Mexico or a Honda, built in America but by a Japanese company? If I narrowed the search to simply american built/american company, I lose a lot of options.
Frankly, I have issues with unions (and I live in Michigan) and, all else being equal, would rather support a right-to-work state that employs Americans not beholden to unions anyway.
Your tax money will be lavishly spent to support GM and Chrysler w/o any congressional input..The GM bondholders really got screwed in this govt takeover, a dime for every dollar invested..
Our govt will do everything they can to bankrupt Ford. The grunts are running the show,here I thought the Mafia was dead!!!!
Bankruptry was sidetracked by Washington which usurped our legal system and took over. It's called "Communism". Ever drive a car produced by a "Pinky", are there Russian built cars being sold in the USA???? No, but they are coming!!!
My 06 Pontiac GPGT is a goner, will trade it on a 2010 Fusion Sport ASAP.., the 09 Bullitt will have a good friend...No Pinky cars in my garage..past or present..
The UAW is all political!!!! Do I sound biased????
The Auto industry was a fun ride for me for many years, now all I have to do is unload my Michigan properties at a great loss and gamble in my next favorite playground, the "stock market".
Remember---the successful get punished because somehow they did something illegal, and
Really? I don't work for any car company and neither do my friends or family.
I use to work for EU company and drive GM car :shades:
Really? I don't work for any car company and neither do my friends or family.
Same here - I've bought 4 Saturns since 2002 and I work in the technology industry while my wife works for a school district.
Why should I believe the 2007 and newer trucks are any better built. I drove the new GMC and it was noisy by my standards. Turned me off before we had 2 blocks. My experience parallels yours and your dad's. My 98 Suburban built in Mexico was much better built than my UAW built GMC 2005 Sierra.
It is laughable that you still live in the past. Did some UAW workers show up drunk at work, you betchya. Does it occur now? Not without consquences. It is a whole different world than the 1970's and 80's
GM and the UAW are paying now for the sins in their past. That is just the way it is. It took me 30 years to forgive Toyota for their shoddy engine in the 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser. Why should the consumer treat GM any differently? Personally I don't think that GM has gotten better. I think Toyota starting with their new models in 2007 came down to GM level. The 2008 Sequoia and Tundra are not only ugly, they are not in a league with the 2007 models. I deal fairly and have given my share to GM.
If that is the case then why is GM the #1 brand sold in the U.S.
If you think going from 50% to 18% market share in two decades is a bragging right. I'm happy for you. They will be lucky to have 15% by the end of the decade.
That would go a long ways in restoring a good work ethic and jobs to one of the hardest hit states in this recession. Good to see not everyone in Michigan feels the rest of US owe them a living.
A good example is Wal~Mart. They rely on all their retail locations being close to their consumer. So they can't move everything overseas or they probably would have!
Big business keeps their interests at the forefront, maximizes THEIR profits, and keeps the little guy down.
So the only protection the average hourly worker, the "little guy," has is if he or she belongs to a UNION!
the only protection the average hourly worker, the "little guy," has is if he or she
belongs to a UNION!gets an education!There. Fixed it for you.
There will always be jobs for people who have something to contribute to a company.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows the following for March 2009 (Seasonally Adjusted):
Educational Level---------------Unemployment Rate
Less than HS-------------------- 13.3%
HS Degree------------------------ 9.0%
Some College------------------- 7.2%
BA Degree or higher---------- 4.3%
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm
Yes, that was an exaggeration but when you get away from the midwest, the abundance of foreign cars vs. domestic is quite pronounced.
Yeah, right! That's the attitude that's put my state (Michigan) in the toilet these days. I think if you polled the non-union auto workers from the right-to-work States about which companies they would rather be working for right now, they might have a different take on things. While all autos in general are down in sales, I'd cast my lot with Toyota, Honda, and other non-domestic.
Granted, my thoughts are only an estimate based on what I see while travelling but I'd say your "estimates" are WAY off based on domestics having less than a 50% market share with those results skewed by midwest areas probably having the highest % of domestic.
Who knows, Rocky? Perhaps someday college students will write papers about our rants.
I doubt it, though.
Yep, unions are great. I heard on the radio here in So Cal the other day that the "teacher of the year" in a local school district, awarded only two months ago, was LAID off due to budget cuts! That's because this teacher was low on the seniority scale. Let's not brown nose and let the excellent ones rise to the top! Reward mediocrity and laziness at all costs! At least the old dog teachers with all those years of experience got to keep their jobs....
-Rocky
I have driven a few 2007+ Silverado's and was impressed with each one of them. I think the GMT-900 is the best made truck in the world.
GM and the UAW are paying now for the sins in their past. That is just the way it is. It took me 30 years to forgive Toyota for their shoddy engine in the 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser. Why should the consumer treat GM any differently? Personally I don't think that GM has gotten better. I think Toyota starting with their new models in 2007 came down to GM level. The 2008 Sequoia and Tundra are not only ugly, they are not in a league with the 2007 models. I deal fairly and have given my share to GM.
Outside of the door hinges on the drivers side was there anything else that went wrong???
If you think going from 50% to 18% market share in two decades is a bragging right. I'm happy for you. They will be lucky to have 15% by the end of the decade.
Not bragging rights. It is sad what has happened. We were on the right track until the 2008 crash. :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky