2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

ateixeira · October 2004

Sport/cutes, as I like to call them, are popular because they are affordable and fuel efficient alternatives to truck-based SUVs and do just about everything most owners demand from them better.

So basically they offer a lot of the advantages, such as a good view point, good cargo room, a roof rack, some towing capacity and AWD traction, without a lot of the common trade-offs: tippy handling, 12 miles per gallon, part-time only 4WD.

The segment is getting squeezed by more car-like SUVs and by cars that have gotten taller (Camry, Focus, Corolla, 500) and wagons that have also gotten taller (Freestyle, Pacifica, SRX).

But the segment is still thriving. RAV4 was pretty much first, and sales have not dropped despite the crowded segment today. The segment itself just keeps growing.

They can't tow 5000 lbs nor can they offer low-range gearing so perhaps they lost potential sales to both of the people that truly need those. lol

-juice

varmint · October 2004

Please consider this an attempt to rationalize the design, not an attack on anyone's opinion. I've got traction control (TC) on my wife's TL, so I have some experience.

"Lets say you are making a left turn on a very busy throuofare on a rainy day. You gun the throttle to merge quickly into traffic and your left wheel starts to spin and bam, the traction control kicks in and applies the brake."

In a FWD vehicle without TC, the spinning wheel would have spun and you still would not have moved forward. Most cars have open differentials, meaning that the spinning wheel would have allowed all the engine's power to "leak" out to the wheel that has no traction.

Had you gunned the engine without TC, you'd have gone nowhere. Might as well put it in park and get out before the semi impacts. With TC, you have a chance of getting moving.

"You panic and give it more gas because you have an 18 wheeler bearing down on you who you have just cut in front of."

I find this to be a strange reaction, having driven a TC optioned car for the past three years. When traction control kicks in, you feel a very unusual (sometimes harsh) vibration in the drivetrain. It's just like what you'd feel through the pedal during antilock braking.

In my experience, people get off the gas when that happens. That would allow the tire to regain traction. Stomping harder on the pedal seems like the last thing a driver would do (IMHO).

And, yes, I believe you can disable the VSA/TC functions.

ateixeira · October 2004

In that circumstance the left front tire would spin, because weight is shifting to the outside, i.e. right side of the vehicle.

The system would probably brake the left tire only, help transfer power to the right front wheel.

I imagine cutting engine power would only happen if both wheels were spinning, kinda doubtful in a turn.

The CR-V (with RT4WD) would have two weapons in its arsenal. The T/C would apply power to the left front wheel, and the AWD could engage to get both rear wheels to start helping.

I can't imagine what would work more safely to get you across that intersection.

-juice

varmint · October 2004

For many owners (not all), simply adjusting to the style of the seat makes a big difference. The CR-V is designed with a seating position that is more appropriate to much larger vehicles. When you sit in a sedan, you tend to lean back. In a pickup truck or minivan, you sit more upright.

A lot of people who come from a car to a CR-V have complained about the seating until they figured out how to make the seat worked. Sit upright.

That isn't going to help with the softness of the cushion, though.

varmint · October 2004

The documentation on the 2005 CR-V is a bit misleading (IMHO) with respect to the RT4WD. At the least, people are reading to much into it.

Based on what I've read, the dual pump design has not been replaced. It has been augmented. The new 2005 materials still include mention of replacing the dual pump fluid. The case for the RT4WD unit still looks the same. It still weighs about the same, as well.

I've been researching mechanical systems to find out more. A press release from Australia describes the new unit with pretty much the same terms as the US information. However, it uses the terms "one-way ball cam" and "pilot clutch". This is more specific than either the US or Canadian press material.

Both parts are frequently used in transmissions, but I'm still trying to figure out what advantage they provide to the existing RT4WD design.

Anybody got a good explanation for how these parts work?

When I find out, I'll post more.

2yearleaseonly · October 2004

theracoon:I lived in the Rochester, NY area for four years (Greece for a year, then moved to Webster, worked in Irondiquoit).

If you did indeed worked in Irondequoit, how come you didn't learn to spell it correctly, assuming you really did work there? And no, I am not Ted Kozinski, I welcomed air bags and front wheel drive.

If I pulled onto a busy road, and its wet uphill, sometimes you get a hint of spin, which is normal. With traction control on a Camry, the anti lock would kick in and then the engine would shut down, for a very minor slipping incident. You are exaggerating in assuming that I'm lighting up the tires with clorox at the starting line at a drag race. If you let up on the gas to stop the traction control, that is enough to get the cars behind you to be on your tail very very quickly.

Frankly, I wasn't fond of a computer chip making a decision to apply the brakes for me. Why can't Honda do like most truck manufacturers do which is, AWD is your traction control if it has the capacity to drive all 4 wheels. It seems redundant, frankly. On the two wheel drive trucks, they then add traction control.

Two year

varmint · October 2004

"Why can't Honda do like most car manufacturers do which is, AWD is your traction control if it has the capacity to drive all 4 wheels."

Because AWD alone only drives one front wheel and only one back wheel if there is slippage. (Read up on open differentials.) With TC, you can get power to two front wheels, and AWD adds a third wheel in the back.

2yearleaseonly · October 2004

Varmint writes:With TC, you can get power to two front wheels, and AWD adds a third wheel in the back.

As the lawyers would say, "asked and answered". Thank you

Varmint writes:And, yes, I believe you can disable the VSA/TC functions.

How would you guess one does that? The Camry had a switch that would work to turn it off until the next time you start your car, and then it would go back to the default setting of "on"

Two year

theracoon · October 2004

If you did indeed worked in Irondequoit, how come you didn't learn to spell it correctly, assuming you really did work there?

Because I didn't have to learn to spell it, since the mailing address for the office was Rochester, not Irondequoit. I apologize for misspelling Irondequoit.

And despite your insinuation that I was lying about working there, the office is located on East Ridge Road just past where Bay Shore Blvd turns to the south. East Ridge used to dead end into the parking lot, but they've built homes behind where the office building is and continued the road. And for a bit of history, the building used to be a winery.

And instead of You are exaggerating in assuming that I'm lighting up the tires with clorox at the starting line at a drag race.

I made no such assumption or assertion.

varmint · October 2004

The Camry had a switch that would work to turn it off until the next time you start your car, and then it would go back to the default setting of "on"

Good question. I don't have an answer, though.

I have disabled the TC in my TL (for testing purposes), but I did not shut the car off to see how it defaults when the car is restarted.

tidester · October 2004

If you did indeed worked in Irondequoit, how come you didn't learn to spell it correctly...

Hey, I lived there too and I never even remember whether Pittsford has two T's or just one! And the same for Henrietta! :-)

tidester, host

stever · October 2004

lighting up the tires with clorox

What's that all about? Does it have to be mixed with brake fluid to make lots of smoke?

Steve, Host
(ModBob reports that he used lighter fluid on his slot car dragsters - my misspent youth missed out ...).

2yearleaseonly · October 2004

Ok Mr. Tidester

Rochester, New York trivia question time. Is it pronounced Chili or Chili?

One last thing on this Rochester topic then we can drop it. Why did everyone leave? No one ever moves to Rochester, or upstate New York for that matter. They just leave, we have no jobs here for our young and like others on this board they up and leave and stiff the rest of us with same level of tax burden but with now less workers to pay it. Our schools, city excluded are undisbutably the best in the country. We spend more per pupil than any other state. Why, so we can prepare the workers of tommorow to go to work at the jobs out of state. I hope the rest of you appreciate it.

Please everyone come back, there's always a Taco Bell hiring here.

Two Year

pacifica · October 2004

Hi,

I'm considering getting a CRV 2005. I like the features but it seems to tight for me. I'm 6'2.

Are there any tall people out there that find the CRV comfortable? Does anybody know other mini SUVs to be more accomodating for tall people?

Thank you for your help!!

tidester · October 2004

Rochester, New York trivia question time. Is it pronounced Chili or Chili?

LoL! Now I KNOW you're authentic! Only someone who's lived there knows both i's are long.

tidester, host

theracoon · October 2004

Only someone who's lived there knows both i's are long.

tidester beat me to it, but I did know that it was not pronounced "chilly".

theracoon · October 2004

Why did everyone leave? No one ever moves to Rochester, or upstate New York for that matter.

I did move to Rochester for work, and I loved living there. Excellent Italian food. But while it was convenient for the job to be in the Rochester office when I wasn't traveling, it was never required. And my job changed somewhat, so instead of reporting to a manager in Rochester I was reporting to one in Dallas, then my job changed again. The new boss is in Salt Lake City.

So I moved back to Indianapolis, since that's where my significant other is from and where she insists upon living.

muxa · October 2004

Can someone tell me how many gallons of gas does the 2004 cr-v ex hold?

inkie · October 2004

JM2C,
Your not the only one that can't spell IRONDEQUOIT {did I spell it right?} We lived there for four years and made rubber stamps to use for our mailing address. That was before mailing labels became popular.

bshel · October 2004

I lived in Rochester (Fairport or East Rochchacha)3x so far in my life, and have moved back 1x since college to my hometown in upstate NY - about 30 min east of Syracuse. I would move back again, but jobs are tough to find that can really support a reasonable lifestyle. So I never stay too long. I guess if I was independently weathly, I'd live there again. My hometown, in Oneida County, just announced a sizeable increase in sales tax. Crazy stuff.

In any case, the CR-V is a great vehicle to drive up there in the mountains/valleys, etc, in snow or dry conditions.

mikefm58 · October 2004

< Why did everyone leave? No one ever moves to Rochester, or upstate New York for that matter. They just leave, we have no jobs here for our young and like others on this board they up and leave and stiff the rest of us with same level of tax burden but with now less workers to pay it. >

You answered your own question. When I used to live in Binghamton, sales tax was raised to 8%, right after another big round of IBM cut backs. The justification was that in times of need, govt. services are needed by more people. Bye Bye NY, Helllooooo Florida.

Sorry for going off topic.

theracoon · October 2004

Can someone tell me how many gallons of gas does the 2004 cr-v ex hold?

The information should be listed in your Owners Manual: 15.3 US gallons

Why do you ask?

ateixeira · October 2004

I felt the front passenger seat could've had more leg room also, maybe someone has managed to modify the seat track?

Honda could let the front seat go 6" farther back and still (!) have a roomy back seat. It's like the built the vehicle for short people with tall kids!

-juice

julia · October 2004

My 2004 CR-V just has 1100 mile on it. I checked the oil level last Sunday. The level is now right at low marker. It was right at high maker one and half months ago. I do not know whether this is normal.

Would any one have experience about how much oil may be added from low maker to high marker on CR-V EX? Thanks

kyfdx · October 2004

On this note...

What is the most gas you've ever been able to put in your CR-V at one fill-up? (Either generation.. I haven't noticed a difference between the two).

I've never been able to get more than 12.6 gallons in, and that is after running for 30 miles on dead E (and biting my nails).

regards,
kyfdx

theracoon · October 2004

I don't remember, since I rarely let it get below 1/4 (and never below 1/2 in the winter).

nowakj66 · October 2004

I too found the CR-V too small. The Element is better but still a bit cramped.

The Hondas that really fit me are the Accord sedan, the Odyssey. Even the Pilot is a bit tight. For Acuras - the TL, the TSX and MDX.

Here is hoping the FR-V or something like it comes to the US and has tilt and telescoping wheel and some leg room.

muxa · October 2004

Thanks theracoon.The reason why i ask is because i only get about 270 miles out of a full tank and i wanted to know my mpg. Boy that isnt much per gallon is it?

theracoon · October 2004

The reason why i ask is because i only get about 270 miles out of a full tank and i wanted to know my mpg. Boy that isnt much per gallon is it?

You can't calculate fuel mileage that way, because you (hopefully) never run your tank completely empty, and therefore never add that much fuel. Always use the actual miles you drove and the actual amount of fuel you added since the last time you filled the tank.

I use the trip odometer (my '99 only has one, I believe the 2002 and up have two), resetting it to zero after I fill up, so it records how far I drove since the last fill up. I take the number of miles shown on the trip odometer and divide by the actual amount of fuel I put in the tank. That gives me miles driven for the gallons of fuel used (MPG).

For example, the last time I bought fuel it took 8.5 gallons to fill the tank and the trip odometer showed I had driven 213 miles: 213 miles/8.5 gallons = 25 MPG.

kyfdx · October 2004

theracoon is exactly right as usual.. You can't go by the fuel tank capacity.. As noted in my post above, I've never been able to put in more than 12.6 gallons, even when sitting on E.

It looks like you are using your trip odometer, since you know how many miles you are getting per tankful... Now, just pay attention to how many gallons it takes to fill it back up..

If you are getting 270 miles, I'll bet you are getting at least 22 MPG..worst case.

Anyone else out there able to get 13 gallons or more in on a fill-up?

regards,
kyfdx

hkjcrv · October 2004

Rochester, New York trivia question time. Is it pronounced Chili or Chili?

Ooh, ooh! I want to get in on the Rochester discussion, since I live there, too!

It's CHY-LYE! Here's another one... is it Leroy or LeRoy?

And I have to say, I'm still here, haven't left yet. I graduated from college in May and miraculously managed to find a job here in June. My boyfriend is not having the same luck... so who knows how long we will actually stick around here. I love WNY. It gets a bad rap, for the weather and all, but I happen to appreciate the four seasons (even though some argue that those seasons are winter, winter, winter and construction!) LOL. We have a beautiful fall season, which we are enjoying right now. And when spring finally comes around, the sunshine is so much more appreciated!

I would love to raise children here... but with the economy going down the tubes and suburban residential costs rising (HOW is this happening?? You can barely get a 2-bedroom house on the east side for less than $200,000!), I don't know if that's going to be possible. Where are these people working that they can afford houses like that??

hkjcrv · October 2004

My hometown, in Oneida County, just announced a sizeable increase in sales tax. Crazy stuff.

What, it wasn't high enough at 8.25%?? Well, I don't know what it was in Oneida County before the hike, or even what it is now, but Monroe County has been enjoying the lovely 8.25% for years now.

hkjcrv · October 2004

What is the most gas you've ever been able to put in your CR-V at one fill-up?

I just looked at my fuel logbook... most ever was 13.442, just at my last fill up. I had been running on E since I left work, ran a couple of errands before stopping to get gas, and was definitely getting a little bit scared that I was going to run out!

stever · October 2004

You guys are off-topic and since my wife's folks left Upstate in the 50's for the warmer climes of California before she was born I really can't relate. The big concrete monster in downtown Buffalo is a trip though!

I could live in Niagara-on-the-Lake and commute in a CR-V I suppose :-)

Steve, Host

robmarch · October 2004

I felt the front passenger seat could've had more leg room also, maybe someone has managed to modify the seat track?

Honda could let the front seat go 6" farther back and still (!) have a roomy back seat. It's like the built the vehicle for short people with tall kids!

it is interesting. I've had the CRV for almost 3 years and have noticed a couple times that the passenger seat isn't as roomy as the drivers' seat feels.

2yearleaseonly · October 2004

Ok Ok... No more off topic. We will suffer in silence here in Upstate New York. It would be appreciated if all of you who have left upstate New York in your CRV's (see, back on topic), wouldn't mind filing a New York State tax return at tax time anyway to help us out, it would be greatly appreciated.

Two year

varmint · October 2004

"maybe someone has managed to modify the seat track?"

I know of an Element owner who modified the seat track to allow for more space. I have a few concerns with such a modification.

1. You'd better be sure of the welds. If a joint lets go in a crash, you're bummin'.

2. If the seat travels back too far, the seat belt will lose some effectiveness. The belt is mounted to the B pillar. If the seat ends up behind that mounting point, the belt will not hold tight.

ateixeira · October 2004

Valid concern about the seat belt and let's toss in the air bag position while we're at it.

I said 6" half joking, I think 2" more would make a world of difference. Honestly I bet the CR-V would still have the most rear leg room in its class.

And yes, I too noticed the problem seems worse on the passenger side. We test drove one and I didn't complain when I was driving, but when we switched and my wife was driving I felt cramped. This would have been her primary vehicle so that was a deal killer.

-juice

05crvse · October 2004

I have a 2005 Honda CRV-SE. Just wonder if anyone knows how the cam-driven Real Time 4WD mechanism works? Also, how is the 4WD going to work together with the VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist)?
If the VSA reduce the gas input into the engine to prevent wheels spin then the 4WD never really kick in, unless you turn off the VSA. Anyone know how all this high tech stuffs really work? Thanks.

varmint · October 2004

I think the actual legroom on the passenger side is identical. It's the glove box stealing room away from your shins that makes it seem more cramped.

05crvse - Working on it. The new system appears to be using the same dual pump design, but it has been enhanced with a pilot clutch and one-way ball cam for faster reaction time.

BTW, VSA will only reduce the power output from the engine if you give it too much gas and ignore the fact that your wheels have no grip. Most of the time, VSA uses the brakes to prevent one wheel from slipping (thus stealing power from the other side).

mikefm58 · October 2004

OK, my last off topic post on this subject. I moved from WNY to Orlando for weather and taxes, didn't count on 4 hurricanes this year, but here's the taxes: 6.5% sales tax, $1300/yr property tax on my house of 1800 sq. ft. in good schools (for florida at least), and NO state income tax. I pay more for tolls and water but nothing near the difference in taxes. Come on down!!!

rustyb · October 2004

Did you ever get an answer on the seat size for your height ?

gregf4 · October 2004

I live in Buffalo and just bought a blue CR-V LX. We love it! The standard warranty is 36,000 miles/3 years. Should I buy an extended warranty? Is it better to get one through Honda or elsewhere?

Greg

fhopkins · October 2004

I have gotten a bit confused about what VSA is, and whether or not it is traction control. YOur email suggests that it includes traction control and is therefore something else in addition. At any rate, does the feature perform the same regardless of whether I purchase the front wheel drive or the 4 wheel drive model?

johnnyrf · October 2004

I have a 2003 CRV with 25K miles on it. With my other vehicle (1999 Odyssey), I bought the extended Honda Care warranty via the internet and saved alot of money. I plan on doing the same with the CRV just for peace of mind. I'll look up my records and see if the dealer I bought the warranty thru (you can buy from any dealer in the US) is still selling .

mikefm58 · October 2004

I would say No, but some folks like the peace of mind with an extended warranty. I bought one warranty on a Ford Mustang from Warranty Gold and got burned, they went bankrupt one year in to my three year warranty. If you're going to get an extended warranty, get one through the manufacturer and shop around.

varmint · October 2004

Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and Traction Control (TC) are two different things. Both help manage the wheels using the brakes. That's why they are very similar. However, they differ in when and why the brakes are engaged.

VSA - The goal of VSA is more or less to keep the vehicle pointed in the direction where the driver has the steering wheel turned. It uses various sensors to determine if the vehicle is in a skid or slide (you've hit a patch of ice). If that happens, the car will brake whichever wheel is mostly likely to correct the slide. The drag provided by that wheel helps keep the vehicle going in the direction you want it to go.

For example, if you start to fishtail and the back of the vehicle tries to pass the front, the VSA will brake one of the rear wheels to prevent a spin out. These systems will frequently kick in before a small slip becomes a major skid.

Mercedes Benz pioneered this type of system back in the mid 1990s. Just about everybody has it now on their luxury cars, now. Volvo advanced it to develop their rollover prevention system.

Caveat: No system is perfect. You can still force a skid. These systems are not a license to drive stupid.

TC - The goal of TC is to provide better traction when moving from a stop on slippery surfaces. This applies only to the front wheels. It helps you get moving in the snow or rain.

Cars need open differentials so they can take tight turns. During a turn, the outside wheel must travel faster than the inside wheel, so the two sides can't be locked together. An open differential solves that problem, while still allowing the engine to power both wheels.

But it also creates a new problem. If one of those wheels starts to slip, all the engine's power will "leak" out through that wheel. Power takes the path of least resistance. If one wheel is spinning freely, it gets all the power. The wheel with traction just sits there.

Enter traction control... TC brakes the spinning wheel. This creates artificial resistance and sends power back across the differential to the wheel with traction. The wheel with traction pulls the car forward, gathering momentum, and eventually getting you out of the slippery spot.

You can feel when TC engages. It kinda feels like the chatter of an ABS system (coarse vibration in the pedal). If you were to ignore that and step harder on the pedal, you'd force both wheels to start spinning. Instead of allowing that to happen, TC will also cut power from the engine until traction is restored.

The combination of TC and VSA gives the CR-V two more weapons in the war on bad weather. (Sorry, election ads must be getting to me.) VSA keeps you from sliding. TC gets you moving forward using the front wheels. If you have RT4WD, that adds the rear wheels to assist you with moving forward. If you don't have RT4WD, the TC and VSA will still be very effective in making things safer on slippery roads.

masteryoda · October 2004

So what's the difference then between TC and limited slip differencial? I have rear LSD on my Legacy GT...

varmint · October 2004

An LSD is a mechanical device that allows the left and right wheels to spin at slightly different speeds, but does not allow all the power to leak out one side. It is neither an open differential, nor is it a locked diff. It's something in between.

Generally speaking, an LSD is better for racing and similar applications. TC brakes a wheel (cutting power). An LSD does not hinder power delivery.

That said, an LSD adds mechanical complexity, extra weight, and cost. TC is just a bit of software added to the existing ABS system.

mlouttit · October 2004

I am talking to a dealer about purchasing a CRV. The issue is that the one I want is several hundred miles away. They will send someone up and drive it here for me but, since it is almost all highway, I have a question about the break-in period. Should I be concerned that this new vehicle will be driven several hundred highway miles during the break-in period?
Thank you.

2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

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