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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Think god their are a few people left in this country that think like gagrice. :)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    As gagrice, has said it would be nice to protect our american businesses and workers with a tariff. One other thing that would be nice is im_brentwood that we eliminate a major problem and disadvantage called currency manipulation. I guess those two problems are to big and require to much common sense for the idiots we have elected to represent us in Washington D.C. :mad: No instead let's pick on the lowest person on the totem poll the proud americans called UAW workers and make them do all the damn sacrificing. :mad:

    If this administration and government would fix those two very important issues not only their would be a flow back of american manufactoring jobs we might just see a real increase in standard of living for this once proud country !!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    it would be nice to protect our american businesses and workers with a tariff.

    Nice for whom? Not people like me who would have to pay that tariff.
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    and not nice for companies that do business overseas. the contries that recieve the tariff's will retaliate with tariffs of their own. thats exactly what happened when bush did his stupid steel tariffs a few years back. The WTO drew up about 20 billion worth of tarrifs on US exports, and the rest of us got to pay more for for anything with steel in it. In the case of cars, any tariffs on japanese vehicles would result in tariffs on US vehicles overseas. currently, GM makes all its profit outside the united states, NA is still loosing money. So how would a tariff help detroit :confuse:

    and on top of all that, the consumer gets less choices when it comes to buy a car, and without competition, the quality of product coming out of detroit will once again go backwards. The lack of competition because of thier total market domination has a lot more to do with the big 3's current state of affairs than the UAW.

    Currency manipulation is a valid point that needs adressed. china is notorious for intenionally keeping the value of th yuan down to help their export business.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    the picture is really quite grim for the domestic automotive industry so desperate times call for desperate measures. It won't work to put our heads in the sand and pretend that the pendulum is swinging to the advantage of Ford and GM.

    Making these discoveries about 20 years ago would've required some real thinking on the part of the domestic manufacturers and the UAW. Spiraling health care costs have really taken their toll, so, the UAW demanding the moon doesn't help the manufacturers deal with the situation.

    They're gonna have to concede to a nasty situation and take less, or, as has been mentioned hundreds of times already on this thread, get laid off. Take the big hit to save Big Daddy. :sick:

    Boeing made my decision for me and about 40,000+ other aerospace workers. Only for me it worked out better 'cause now I'm enjoying my health care job more so than my aerospace one. I am getting paid better than my Boeing job but I'm paying about twice for my health care insurance than I was when with Boeing. So things have a way of evening out. Costs of housing are about half in this little SE Arizona cowtown, though, so there we come way out ahead.

    I'd also rather pick desert tumbleweeds out of my teeth than have some moron in a huge GM SUV run roughshod right over my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS on I-5 navigating Seattle's goofy traffic bottlenecks. That is a huge perk of living in the SW desert. Yesterday, heading east from downtown Tucson, we encountered some traffic with us on I-10. Ya know what, it cleared out in about 10 minutes and we were alone on I-10 heading east.

    Am I ever glad Boeing and the full box of know-it-alls laid me off out of that jungle. It sure would be too bad if they fell mysteriously off the ledge of Mukilteo in to Puget Sound and had to wrastle with octupii in those cold, dark waters, huh?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There is something to be said for taking the lemons life drops on you and making lemonade. I would take Wilcox, AZ over Seattle ANY day of the week. I do not see how people live in that gloomy environment without going crazy. I am sure Boeing shot themselves in the foot with all the restructuring. No one has said much about how Boeing has built factories all over the world.

    It is difficult to pull up stakes and leave your home after 25 years, where ever it may be. I think the Big 3 have held that re-hire carrot out for many UAW people that have been laid off. It is a good job when you are working. It is tough making house payments on unemployment.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    "There is something to be said for taking the lemons life drops on you and making lemonade."

    And when life sends gators making gatorade.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that's funny you should mention life sending you gators to make gatorade...I was seriously contemplating getting hospital work in Tampa or a smaller town in Florida to further my Allied Health career!

    Something tells me I grabbed a better location...the Wild, Wild West over gators, hurricanes and tropical storms. We are just getting out of our monsoon season here in southern Arizona and the waether will be getting cooler little by little as time moves along.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Sept. 16 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. offered to cap out-of-pocket health costs for United Auto Workers members to help gain approval for a union-run fund that would let GM shed $50 billion in retiree medical-care obligations, three people with knowledge of the matter said.

    GM, the biggest U.S. automaker, also proposed a freeze in cost-of-living raises and base wages in negotiations on a new four-year UAW contract, said the people, who asked not to be identified because they haven't been authorized to speak publicly. The union hasn't ruled out the cost-of-living freeze, a GM demand that spurred a 67-day strike in 1970, two of the people said.

    The proposals, which may change because talks are still in progress, are at the heart of GM's bid for union approval to get rid of retiree medical-care liabilities that cost the automaker as much as $3.3 billion in cash last year. GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC lost a combined $15 billion last year and are banking on the talks for cost cuts that would help them survive.

    ``An agreement like this would give the UAW four years in which the nuclear options are off the table,'' said Dan Luria, an analyst at Michigan Manufacturing Technology Institute, referring to workers' concerns that they might have to pay more for health-care coverage or lose it altogether.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Nice for whom? Not people like me who would have to pay that tariff.

    Depending on what you or your spouse does for a living you are paying for it anyways. If a UAW worker can't afford to buy your service or spend he/she's money at your business then you end up with less money in your pocket.

    I'd rather pay more at the cash register to keep the economy going and raise the standard of living for every american than save a few bucks now and I and my family lose our jobs do to cheap 3rd world made goods. I think cooterbfd, gagrice, lemko, imidazol97, and myself, all have done a fine job presently and in the past explaining why we can't continue on this current economic trail. At some point the tracks are going to run out and we are going to crash and it ain't going to be pretty. :sick:

    -Rocky
  • gaspasser2gaspasser2 Member Posts: 44
    Is union outdated?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    and not nice for companies that do business overseas. the contries that recieve the tariff's will retaliate with tariffs of their own.

    LOL, are you serious ????? They already have those tariffs and trade barriers in place. :surprise: :confuse:

    The WTO drew up about 20 billion worth of tarrifs on US exports, and the rest of us got to pay more for for anything with steel in it. In the case of cars, any tariffs on japanese vehicles would result in tariffs on US vehicles overseas.

    Well that's because we did a poor job of protecting U.S. steel company's. This nation sold them and the workers down the tubes because you capitalist thought it would be such a wonderful and great idea to import steel from Japan, and now China. The stuff they make in China, I could break a part with my bare hands. :P The stuff made in Japan, well isn't exactly much better. ;)

    As far as tariffs on U.S. cars in Japan, well they can impose trade barriers by switching up the regulations and working hand and hand with their Japanese business to establish a certain regulation that only the home manufactors will know about and are able to meet do to the insidenotice. They are then able to establish a sizable lead on developing this new engine and then anything over will not be allowed in Japan. This is one reason why GM, has had sucha problem meeting these changing rules and regulations in Japan, and has been well documented by the big 3. :mad:

    currently, GM makes all its profit outside the united states, NA is still loosing money. So how would a tariff help detroit

    If I recall correctly GM, made a small profit here in the U.S. last quarter. :confuse:

    and on top of all that, the consumer gets less choices when it comes to buy a car, and without competition, the quality of product coming out of detroit will once again go backwards. The lack of competition because of thier total market domination has a lot more to do with the big 3's current state of affairs than the UAW.

    No if the Japanese want to remain competitive they will have to slash their profit margin expectations a bit. Right now they are making billions of extra dollars off of currency manipulation. Don't get me started on the freebees called tax breaks we give them for opening up new plants. :mad:

    Currency manipulation is a valid point that needs adressed. china is notorious for intenionally keeping the value of th yuan down to help their export business.

    Well we agree, but the fact remains this do nothing administration and some members of congress has had this important issue in front of them several times and they ignore it. :mad: Japan, like China has no reason to switch tatics as nobody is really standing up to them and calling them on it. You have to physically impose a counter measure and not just give lip service. :mad:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wanna know what I did yesterday iluv ???? In your honor I established a BOEING account and submitted my resume on-line so I could apply for one of those worth less aerospace jobs. :P I actually would love to work for a great company like Boeing. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah, but working for Boeing, right now for me would be be as good if not better than working for General Motors.

    I looked in the Help Wanted Ads this week and it was the worst week for job selections. I'm going to take a 75% pay reduction here in Michigan, if one of these decent employers I've applied for don't call me soon. :sick:

    -Rocky
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    pay more at the cash register to keep the economy going and raise the standard of living

    which will be totaly offset by the increased prices you'll pay for everything. add to that the millions of jobs lost when every county retaliates with their own tariffs and you have a pretty bleak picture. Protectionism doesn't work. say we do as you say and put a 200% tariff on all textile imports from china. What do you think china will do in the face of that? They put huge tariffs on things like aircraft, computers, netorking equipment and a host of other items that are sold to china. those companies that now find themselves aced out of the fastest growing economy in the world will begin to lay off tens of thousands of employees. Those newly unemployed people will not be spending any money on the now more expensive items you've put tariffs on, and the whole thing contines to spiral downward.

    I think the part of the equation your missing is that the united states exports billions and billions of dollars worth of products and services. The only thing we've lost is unskilled manufacturing jobs. I don't understand why you think it's so important we get those back, or why you think the fate of our country depends on over paying people for the most menial of jobs.

    Look at it this way. Our economy and workforce has advanced beyond the point of needing unskilled asembly line work to thrive. The simple fact of the matter is, if you wan't a good job, want to make good money and enjoy a good life with all the materialism our country has to offer........you can't aspire to work on an assembly line. Your going to have to set your sights a wee be higher than that. your going to have to learn a skill, or a trade. It doesn't have to be heathcare or IT, you can be a plumber or mechanic or something. But you can't really expect to make 60k per year doing a job that can be performed by a trained chimp. And if you did get that, it would simply raise the pay of skilled emplyees, which they would have to raise their prices to get. Somebody who spent a couple years in a technical school learning how to fix cars isn't going to be happy making the same money as somebody sewing a button on a pair of levis. so you have everybodies pay going up, and everybodies prices going up to cover it, and your right back where you started.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Seems like that is the #1 issue, eh ?

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    which will be totaly offset by the increased prices you'll pay for everything. add to that the millions of jobs lost when every county retaliates with their own tariffs and you have a pretty bleak picture. Protectionism doesn't work. say we do as you say and put a 200% tariff on all textile imports from china. What do you think china will do in the face of that? They put huge tariffs on things like aircraft, computers, netorking equipment and a host of other items that are sold to china. those companies that now find themselves aced out of the fastest growing economy in the world will begin to lay off tens of thousands of employees. Those newly unemployed people will not be spending any money on the now more expensive items you've put tariffs on, and the whole thing contines to spiral downward.

    I think your missing my point and that is China, needs us a helluva alot worse than we need them. If our corporations wouldn't of went over their and exploit their people and virtually make them slaves then their people would still be unadvanced and starving on the rice farms. Now that we've spent billion$ in capital in China, we've not only advanced their economy but we've also have advanced them militarily and if that isn't a concern of yours well let me tell you what it's a growing concern of mine. ;)

    I think the part of the equation your missing is that the united states exports billions and billions of dollars worth of products and services. The only thing we've lost is unskilled manufacturing jobs. I don't understand why you think it's so important we get those back, or why you think the fate of our country depends on over paying people for the most menial of jobs.

    That's what I don't understand about your position ?????? You think our trading with China, is totally free !!!!!! Well I'm here to tell you it isn't. They have strong trade barriers and high tariffs set up to make it basically only economically feasible to build it their to sell it there. :confuse: China, is a protectionist nation.

    Look at it this way. Our economy and workforce has advanced beyond the point of needing unskilled asembly line work to thrive. The simple fact of the matter is, if you wan't a good job, want to make good money and enjoy a good life with all the materialism our country has to offer........you can't aspire to work on an assembly line. Your going to have to set your sights a wee be higher than that. your going to have to learn a skill, or a trade. It doesn't have to be heathcare or IT, you can be a plumber or mechanic or something. But you can't really expect to make 60k per year doing a job that can be performed by a trained chimp.

    I agree with the latter part as that is becoming a reality but evengetting a skill or educationisn't goingto bring you prosperity. Just looking in the help wanted ads most employers require a certain amount of time and experience in those so-called skilled positions and if you obtain your degree or skill and nobody allows you the time needed to gain the experience then that education becomes next to worthless. :confuse:

    As far as doing simple assembly line jobs asbeing wothless ? Well those worthless jobs did provide a huge impact on our economy and those people were once able to buy nice homes, cars, and other material things and goods and services. ;) I guess I could be a jerk and say we should import all our food and do away with farm subsidies for american agriculture because the Chinese, Russians, South Americans, can do it cheaper. :mad:

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Kids twenty years from now:

    ...I wanna be a doctor!
    Sorry, nobody has health insurance anymore. Guess you'll be working at the free clinic.

    ...I wanna be a lawyer!
    Sorry, nobody works anywhere else but Wal~Mart and has no money for a lawyer. Guess you'll end up as a public defender.

    ...I wanna be a Software Engineer!
    Sorry, Chang and Apu will do it for peanuts. Wanna be an apprentice fry technician?

    ...I wanna be in Real Estate!
    Are you out of your mind buddy? Nobody can afford houses anymore! Maybe you can work for Mr. [non-permissible content removed] the slumlord getting rental referrals.

    ...I wanna be a teacher!
    Uh, were you once a Navy SEAL or a Green Beret? If not, I can't recommend suicide as a career choice.

    ...I wanna be a police officer!
    Great choice, Junior! You'll have PLENTY of work. However, with no tax base left, you might get paid every other month - minimum wage of course!

    ...I wanna be a firefighter!
    Another good choice! You'll have PLENTY of work with all the riots burning down the ghettos that were solid middle-class neighborhoods 20 years ago, but like Junior who wants to be a police officer, you'll be risking your life for peanuts.

    ...I wanna be a Corrections Officer!
    Wow, then you'll be able to observe the remainder of the United State's manufacturing sector as the only way we can compete with China is to use free convict labor.

    ...I wanna be a CEO!
    FANTASTIC!!! Go over there and apply with Mr. Satan. It'll only cost you a little thing called your soul. Don't worry about the fine print on the contract you'll be signing in your own blood.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not all your scenarios are 20 years from now. Some are now. Silicon Valley is subsidizing housing for Police, Firefighters and Teachers. The pay is too low to live where you work. Anything under $150k family income is poverty. Or close to it.

    Many teachers in the inner cities of the USA need combat training. I don't even drive to downtown San Diego at night. And it is one of the safer cities in the USA.

    The doctor situation is already a poor choice. It is not worth the $100s of $1000s it takes to get the education. With the chance we will get socialized medicine makes it even less attractive.

    We have friends that took out a $180,000 loan to put their two children through college. The daughter got married and is working at the mall for $9 per hour. The son has a job as a construction superintendent making $65k per year.

    I am not optimistic about the future for our children and grandchildren. I think we will go down hill as the third World comes up. It could level out in a couple hundred years.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Depending on what you or your spouse does for a living you are paying for it anyways. If a UAW worker can't afford to buy your service or spend he/she's money at your business then you end up with less money in your pocket.

    It would take a team of economists to track the money flow from a UAW member's paycheck into my own. Now that the Ford truck plant is closed, the closest UAW facility is up in Delaware. That is probably the UAW's biggest problem: outside of a handful of union enclaves, the rest of the country is anywhere from indifferent to hostile to the union and the woes of its membership. A majority of the US population can go an entire lifetime without ever having any direct contact with a UAW member.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You wonder if the DOD will get the hassle that WalMart got for hiring illegals. If they used Union contractors it would be a lot more difficult for the illegals to get a Union journeyman card. I imagine it was a Davis Bacon job. The contractor will get Union Wage for workers. Probably getting $75 per man hour and paying $10 to the workers.

    Twelve construction workers were detained Friday at Fort Bliss because they were in the country illegally or didn't have proper work permits, officials said.

    The 12 were detained after Military Police and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents interviewed 335 workers at one housing construction site, at Fort Bliss and another at Biggs Army Airfield.


    http://preview.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_6897967
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I've heard of those "teacher's ghettos" they have in the Silicone Valley region - areas set aside so that somebody on a teacher's salary could afford a home. I think it would be poetic justice for all those yuppie IT jerks to have no police or fire protection because they priced all the police officers and firefighters out of the market.

    Myron the IT Geek: "Help! Help! Burglars are robbing my house and taking all my computer equipment, burning my comic book collection, and breaking all my D&D paraphenalia!"

    Police Dispatcher: "We're sending some officers all the way from Oakland. They might get there when they feel like it."

    Myron the IT Geek: "Oh no! My $2 million dollar 1100 sq ft. tract home is burning to the ground!"

    Fire Dispatcher: "Uh, got a garden hose?"

    Shoot, I don't even want kids because I wouldn't want to send them to the gladiator academies called Philadelphia public schools and I don't feel like working three jobs just so they can go to a parochial school. Guess I'm just a genetic dead end. I feel bad for the young people of today.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    There are some differences.
    1 I don't have a guaranteed job,if I don't produce, I'm gone.
    2 MY compensation is directly tied to my ability,and it is tied to the store making money.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Cooter,
    You just don't get it.
    Making cars has zero to do with patriotism.
    It has everything to do with controling costs.
    Alot of the cars the Big 3 sell are not made int he US. They are made in Mexico and Canada.
    Why?
    Because it costs less.
    If Ford or GM or Chrysler decide that for their own survival they need to take their manufacturing overseas,believe me, they will.
    You know what? If Americans like their product,they will buy them. No matter where they are made.
    People buy the brand,they really don't care where they are made.
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    You know what? If Americans like their product,they will buy them. No matter where they are made.

    and I would add no matter what they cost. the problem for the domestics is that they build, or at least for the last 20 yrs have built, crap. they continue to be behind the asian in innovation, design, features, reliability, fuel efficency and so on. Its not a matter of price. Asian cars cost 30% more than domestic cars, and people still buy them, in much larger quantities than their domestic counterparts. when the big 3 start building cars people want then their sales will increase.

    Of course, considering how the country is going to hell in a handbasket, everybodies wages are going down, the economy is in ruin..................You have to wonder where the money is comming from for all these people to elevate the more expensive forign car companies to record sales and proffit, and market share. as bad as a couple of people here think things are you'd susspect hyundai/kia would be domminating the market. Maybe that the goal. get the unions back to running the show, destroy the economy, and make people unable to afford those expensive foriegn cars that they prefer and are willing to pay more for ;)
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    My point was that the [non-permissible content removed] BIG 3 are selling more cars built here. Why??? Because people DO care where it is built. If not, NOBODY would build here. Tell me, why does Honda tout the Accord as being built in Ohio??? Wouldn't it be cheaper to build in Honduras?? Korea??? Speaking of Korea, why does Hyundai build here???

    All together now: "BECAUSE CARS ARE SUCH A BIG PURCHASE, IT MAKES PERFECT BUSINESS SENSE TO BUILD WHERE YOU SELL"

    BTW, we may send BILLIONS overseas in EXPORTS, yet we IMPORT over $700 BILLION MORE than we send out every year.
    Isn't that what gets companies in trouble? Spending more than you make??? AT some point THE WORLD will have more US DOLLARS than the US.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You are very correct bumpy, but a study has been done and a UAW autoworkers paycheck can switch hands around 7 times. This study was done many years ago to see how much a autoworker impacts the local community.

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wanna know what's so funny lemko, some talk about how over paid UAW, workers are but in a place like California, where the cost of living is so ridiculously high it's like getting a mininum wage job. I bet the UAW NUMMI, workers have to live in the slums to be able to live there. :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Cooter,
    You just don't get it.
    Making cars has zero to do with patriotism.
    It has everything to do with controling costs.
    Alot of the cars the Big 3 sell are not made int he US. They are made in Mexico and Canada.
    Why?
    Because it costs less.
    If Ford or GM or Chrysler decide that for their own survival they need to take their manufacturing overseas,believe me, they will.
    You know what? If Americans like their product,they will buy them. No matter where they are made.
    People buy the brand,they really don't care where they are made


    I strongly disagree with you as a large number americans still do care. Sure on the coasts people don't give a rat where they are made but here in the midwest a large number of people have some patriotism to their american business and workers. I know people that will only buy american made Japanese cars if they happen to like a foreign brand. I'm just saying it does play a factor for some folks still.

    -Rocky
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Rocky;

    I think it will always be a factor. If not, then why tout "made in USA" as much as the [non-permissible content removed] Big 3 do???
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    There were a lot more UAW members with a lot more walking-around money many years ago. Time, automation, and the general subcompetence of the Big 3.5 pretty well undid that, and the country moved on.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    If you have a vivid memory of Pearl Harbor and the rest of WWII, you have a tendency to buy American. If you were born after 1946 you don't care where it was made.

    The profit of foreign cars made in the USA still goes back to the home office in country of origin.

    It is allowable to buy English, they were on our side. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You would think history would of taught us a valuable lesson after WWII. Sure country's change and the way they think. However their are a few country's that are up and coming that have strong desires to rule at all costs and we keep feeding them and making them stronger each day.

    Perhaps lemko, is right by becoming a genetic dead end as he won't have any of his kids fighting WWIII.

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Rocky, I might live on the East Coast, but you can count me as one who really cares about where things are made. My Dad taught me the importance of it years ago.

    Historians of the future will marvel most of all at the non-resistance of those who had the most to lose.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    WWIII? Shoot, I'm more afraid of them being murdered on the means streets of Killadelphia let alone some future war. Philadelphia once had the proud title "The Workshop of the World." Now, the newspapers keep a tally on how many people are killed over the weekend. I'm sure there would be a lot less killing, violence, and drug abuse had such once-great manufacturers like Budd, Philco, Botany 500, Stetson Hat, Baldwin Locomotive, New York Ship, Whitman Chocolate, After Six, Marcus Pinkus, Dodge Steel, Disston Saw, and a whole host of others remained in Philadelphia.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What will happen to Hershey PA? I imagine many of the companies you mentioned were Union shops. Right to Work states have done a lot to undermine the Unions, and the middle class. Our economy is doing well on some levels. It is a house of cards. It was held together by the dot.com boom in the 1990s. It has fed off the housing low interest for the last several years. Now that all the malpractices of the lenders is coming back to bite them we are in for another slide. The war in Iraq is all that is feeding this economy. Pull that card and it all comes tumbling down.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hershey is a bit unique since the controlling interest in the chocolate company is held by the orphan's trust, and they've recommitted to staying in PA since the big legal and political stink a few years ago when the orphan board wanted to sell lots of their Hershey stock and diversify.

    The company has made some dumb decisions in recent years, like overpaying for the macadamia nut company and some power bar type outfit. Their financials haven't done squat for years now, in spite of some plant closings. And the union there struck in '02.

    I suppose they could shutter the plants and just leave the theme park running and move the chocolate production to Mexico and tell PA to kiss off.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    euphonium: It is allowable to buy English, they were on our side.

    I have the feeling that anyone who put up with a Lucas electric system, or owned a British car built in the 1970s, would wonder what the British had against us.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    wonder what the British had against us.

    Our soldiers, sailors, and airmen married their most beautiful women and brought them home as "War Brides".

    (My son in law's mother is one of them and at 75+ she is still thin and trim.) ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I hope the orphan's trust wouldn't be reckless and self-destructive enough to close the plant in Hershey, PA. The whole town will change almost overnight as I have observed in Philly when a major employer leaves town.

    I remember when Sears closed its huge warehouse complex on Roosevelt Blvd. and Adams Avenue in the early 1990s. The neighborhood went from a solid, clean, middle-class neighborhood of tidy homes and nice stores to a filthy, violent ghetto within a year. Once immaculate streets are filled with trash and graffiti. Recently, a corner store grocer was robbed and killed for no good reason and an Asian man was attacked and killed by thugs during his evening walk. This kind of lawlessness and mahem was unheard of when Sears was still there.

    Forget about visiting the theme park if those changes come to Hershey, PA. The park will be filled with the thuggish element and regular folks will fear to go there thus speeding its demise.

    Oh, the orphans' trust will certainly have a lot more business as unemployed ex-Hershey workers commit suicide, become victims of crime, or end up in prison as perpetrators of those crimes and leave parentless children behind. Milton S. Hershey will be spinning at 7500 RPMs in his grave.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    A year ago, Kalama-based NorthStar Yachts owner Jerry Clark sat on the dock at the Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show in Florida and realized his business needed to change to survive.

    Potential customers were touring a nearly identical 80-foot yacht in a neighboring slip, but they were ignoring NorthStar's boat because the Chinese-built competitor was selling for $2 million less, said Clark, chief operating officer of NorthStar.





    "The consumer has become more price-driven," said Clark, 46. "They are willing to accept it being built offshore."

    So Clark, a Longview resident, started thinking about moving his operations to Zhuhai, China's boat-manufacturing region. He said he made 10 trips to Zhuhai in the past year and "was really surprised at the growth there. It was the opposite of what I imagined."

    Clark, who worked through translators in China, settled on a pre-built spec factory and laid off the firm's 60 employees in January after NorthStar's plant at the Port of Kalama finished its last U.S.-made yacht.

    "I've been working with some of these guys for 20 years. We have a family-type relationship," Clark said. "This was a tough decision, but it was either this or close the doors."

    This is the first major Cowlitz County firm to pull anchor and move oversees, said Ted Sprague, president of the Cowlitz Economic Development Council. However, he said, it is unlikely more will follow suit and outsource production to China, the world's most populous country. "Often times it depends on the capital investments here," he said. "There's a lot of risk moving oversees. Typically, either the capital investment for a company here is so large or the investment is so large that companies won't move."

    From its Kalama plant, NorthStar made 80-foot to 125-foot long yachts costing between $6 million and $13 million.

    In China, the luxury boats can be manufactured for about $2 million less with the same number of workers and allow NorthStar to offer more boat options, said Clark, who has been in the boat-building business 28 years. Clark said he had no alternative for keeping the company afloat.

    Clark followed his father and grandfather into the boat building profession. All three worked for Tollycraft Yachts in Kelso. In 1997, Tollycraft shut down after more than 60 years making boats. Clark bought the company and moved it to Kalama in 1998.

    The Daily News, 18 Sep 07
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, but I hope those rich cheapskates think about the $2 million they saved and all those boat builders they put out of work and all the families out on the street as their cheap Chinese craft sinks in the middle of the ocean while the sharks and barracudas come in for the kill.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    There is a lot more to Hershey then the chocolate plant. The town is not dependent on the factory. They may lose some jobs there but Hershey will be the same. The trust is worth several billion dollars. The hospital is one of the top teaching hospitals on the east coast. You have the shopping outlets, concerts, minor league hockey, etc. Hershey has successfully turned itself into a tourist town. You can't compare it to Philly.

    You are also forgetting the crack down o the mob in Philly led to an increase in crime in certain areas as well.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Not to mention a little burg like Kalama needs every single job it has. SW WA is an economic wasteland compared to many other areas of the state. And it has the social ills to prove it.

    One can easily hope these people end up with a leaky ship. It would match their mentality.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    let us know how that Boeing thing goes, OK? If you get on there ask your lead or manager if they finally have a pay-for-performance program developed. Or, if they even tie your performance to getting raises at all. Never happened when I was there and there was no organized program in sight.

    Basically if you kiss enough of the right place or your group is for some reason left alone by middle management your job will be all right. It's a free-for-all with no intelligent method of progressing in your job available. Have at it and by all means good fortune to you.

    I'm happier taking care of people's respiratory needs here in the old Wild, Wild West.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    They apparently have forgotten J.P. Morgan's admonition to yacht customers: "If you have to ask about the price, you can't afford it."
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have less respect for a millionaire that spends his money in a country that did little to reward him, than the single mom that can only afford shoes at WalMart. Buying a yacht is for the rich. If they made their fortune in this country, they should do their best to spend it here.
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    It's their money. they worked for it, they earned it. they should be able to spend it however or wherever they see fit, on whatever they want. it's really none of your, or anyone else's business.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    And it isn't really your or anyone's position to dictate the comments of others :sick:

    Not to mention how much many of them "worked" for their money is easily debated. If they can't stand the criticism, they shouldn't act as they do. I suspect most of these people do not care, they are isolated from reality and from the plebes.

    This mindset is leading to the exploding socio-economic gaps of this society, and the ills which are following.
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