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Acura TL 2009

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Comments

  • chuckjrchuckjr Member Posts: 95
    The 09 TL is selling at sticker here in LA (I've only been to one dealer). The internet manager stated that there wouldn't be any incentives until next year.
    Do this mean that dealers will continue to ask sticker or that Acura corporate won't provide any dealer cash? Or is this a dealer by dealer scenario?

    Basically my question is after a new car is introduced when will I be able to purchase it at invoice +?

    thanks
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    He (or she) posted on the TSX board too. Maximize exposure I guess. No big deal.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    When the new model year is released
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "...after a new car is introduced when will I be able to purchase it at invoice +?"

    Depends on consumer response. If no one buys, it'll drop to invoice pretty darn quick.
  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    It also doesn't take that brain surgeon to know that almost any car, Porsche or otherwise, that has been subjected to 30,000 miles of 3-4 mile or less roundtrips has probably suffered more engine wear than a vehicle with 100,000 miles of mostly highway driving. But it is particularly bad for a car, Acura or otherwise, to be broken in with those 5 minute hops. The difference being that Acura probably only has 5 quarts of oil to heat up, whereas a 911 has 10 and takes a little longer to reach full operating temperature.

    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, but what should one do if 99% of my driving activity consists of "5 minute hops?" The supermarket, bank, church, school, and work are all "5 minute hops" for us. It could be weeks before one of my cars takes a 10+ mile trip before the engine is shut down. Suggestions for break in?
  • spiritintheskyspiritinthesky Member Posts: 207
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, but what should one do if 99% of my driving activity consists of "5 minute hops?" The supermarket, bank, church, school, and work are all "5 minute hops" for us. It could be weeks before one of my cars takes a 10+ mile trip before the engine is shut down. Suggestions for break in?

    And your situation is one of the "marketing" reasons why you don't see the recommendation in most owner's manuals. Again, short hops are not going to produce any immediate problems, but avoiding them would be percieved as an inconvenience or red flag to potential purchasers. Nevertheless, for the reasons stated previously, it is a good break in practice.

    One thing I have done is to try to schedule a longer road trip or two after taking delivery. The other option is to do your best to combine short hops - e.g. having a passenger in the car with the engine idleing while you grab that gallon of milk. Or just take the scenic roads to school and use that "quality time" time to ask your kids how how they are doing in nonlinear differential equations or cell biology. It has never been too tough for me to turn a 5 minute hop into a 15 minute drive, at least for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gas.

    Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work.
  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    Thanks for your reply.

    Again, short hops are not going to produce any immediate problems

    That's what I thought. It's not like I have ever kept the same car for 60k miles or more anyway.

    It has never been too tough for me to turn a 5 minute hop into a 15 minute drive, at least for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gas.

    True, if 2-3 tankfuls are sufficient, I'll be just fine. I will be excited enough to have a new toy and will not mind taking a few Sunday afternoon drives.

    Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work. Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work.

    Probably so. If I were buying today, it would be a tough choice to decide between an 09 Maxima and a 09 TL. I have never been particularly interested in a hybrid due to the additional purchase cost premium and the potential for extra maintenance costs. I don't see an economic advantage there for me. All of the data I have seen suggests that you have to drive a lot of miles and keep the car a long time to come out ahead. We tend to buy what appeals to us visually and what is in our price range, otherwise we, as most people, could get by in a Civic, Corolla, or Focus just fine.

    isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?

    Beats the heck out of the 2006 Jeep Commander that it would replace. ;)
  • mikey38mikey38 Member Posts: 141
    Finally got over to the local dealer to check out the 09 TL. I almost cried :( They've turned a fine car into a semi-land barge with a chickenman beak! The interior is nice enough, well laid out but it's too big and way too ugly. IMHO of course.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?'

    Have you seen the majority of drivers of high-end MB M-class, BMW X5, Cayenne, etc, and what they do? Women dropping off and picking up kids from school, dance classes, piano lessons, etc.

    If one can afford the car, who's to question whether his/her use justifies the cost? He/she can use it for a planter, if so desired.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    You would cry even more, if you went over to the Hyundai dealer and looked at the Genesis, or the Mazda6 at the Mazda dealer, and realized what could have been. :cry:
  • sandy25sandy25 Member Posts: 65
    "Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for ?"

    Spoken like the great engineer I/m sure you are. From the marketing perspective, almost all products are purchased primarily for subjective reasons. The accord/camry can't deliver that intangible satisfaction a "luxury" car (Acura) provides. The product choices most of us make are emotional as well as rational.

    Sigmund. Freud
    Director of Mrketing
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    If I were buying today, it would be a tough choice to decide between an 09 Maxima and a 09 TL.....Beats the heck out of the 2006 Jeep Commander that it would replace.

    Don't count on it. My 2004 TL 6-speed returns 30+ mpg on the highway, but barely manages 15-16 mpg in the kind of short hop driving you are describing.

    Not to throw out another option, but the E320 Bluetech that my marketing director owns never gets less than 25 mpg in the city. And with the incentives being offered by Mercedes, can be bought for under $45k, not that much more than a TL selling at MSRP.
  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    Don't count on it. My 2004 TL 6-speed returns 30+ mpg on the highway, but barely manages 15-16 mpg in the kind of short hop driving you are describing.

    True, 15-16 is nothing to get excited about but when I scroll through the Jeep's information center, it consistently reports 11-12 mpg after a couple weeks worth of around town driving. 17-18 or so is what it reports on interstate trips at 75-80 mph. (I have no idea how accurate these onboard systems are though fwiw.)

    The MB is a nice choice but the mid 40k range is getting a little ritzy for me. Can I make the payment on time - yes, but am I comfortable with it? probably not. I don't want to get used to a high end vehicle and later have to step back a notch if my budget tightens.

    not that much more than a TL selling at MSRP.

    It will be next August before I purchase. I don't expect it to be selling at MSRP at that point. Quite a few Acura owners/enthusiasts seem to be put off by the new styling; if this translates in to less sales I expect there will be deals to be had. I wasn't crazy about the 09 Maxima at first sight but it has grown on me greatly to where it is #1 or 2 on the list. We'll see what happens....
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I wasn't crazy about the 09 Maxima at first sight but it has grown on me greatly to where it is #1 or 2 on the list.

    I respectfully suggest you test drive the new Maxima, if you haven't already done so. I did back in July when I had my 1995 Maxima in for service. Some people think a rubber band CVT is the best transmission in the world. I am of the camp that would like to send the inventor to Siberia. Granted, I am a manual transmission person, but the CVT is about as diametrically opposed to "sport" as Rosie O'Donnel is to Donald Trump. I'd take a TL, even an automatic version, in a hearbeat before the Maxima - and that's in spite of thinking that my 1995, with 155k miles ia arguably the best long term car I have ever owned.
  • traumeritraumeri Member Posts: 32
    The reviews on the gain in performance for the SH-AWD has been mixed. Some feel straight-line acceleration is not much improved due to extra weight. Some say the ride is too harsh and road noise too high (19" tires I presume). I have only driven the FWD TL Tech, can you comment on the difference in your opinion in terms of acceleration, ride, and noise isolation? Obviously handling will be improved in the SHAWD but I'm curious at what cost relative to the base TL.
  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    I respectfully suggest you test drive the new Maxima, if you haven't already done so. I did back in July when I had my 1995 Maxima in for service. Some people think a rubber band CVT is the best transmission in the world. I am of the camp that would like to send the inventor to Siberia.

    No, I have NOT driven either the Maxima or the TL. Since I will not be ready to buy until late next summer, there's not much point in wasting a salespersons time (or mine) at this point. I have never driven or ridden in a CVT car, so I can't comment on the plusses or minuses of the CVT. I like the max from what I see visually; whether I like the CVT or not will be the primary thing I will focus on when I actually have the opportunity to drive one. (the thought has already occurred to me that I might want to see if an Altima or Max with the cvt is available to rent so that I might be able to spend an extended time test driving one)

    I know you are NOT a fan of the maxima from your posts in other places. The Max and the TL are what excites the wife at the current moment and, as this will be her car, I will submit to whatever strikes her fancy. She is looking at this as her car to "wear" and whether the max is a true "4DSC" is not even in her realm of thinking. A year is an eternity in the car world and what she is attracted to may change, once again, in the months between now and next summer depending not necessarily on common sense but whatever "flicks her Bic". Until then, I will lurk on "prices paid" forums, etc. so I will have a feel for what the market and consensus is on the models in question.

    I've made the mistake of pushing her into a car that she wasn't gung-ho on before and have learned the hard way to let my preferences stay on the back burner. She has expressed interest from time to time on the Acadia, 5 series, TL, Maxima and the Accord to name a few. Clearly, that's a wide range of choices in function as well as msrp. Right now its between the TL and the Max. I, personally, would add to that the Genesis, Passat, 3 series, G35, M35, ES 300?, Avalon, G8, CTS and some others that I am forgetting at the moment --- but again, the wife has vetoed those choices for one reason or another. (women: :cry: :confuse: :sick: :shades: )
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,726
    Back in '02, the Evil Wife wanted a new car. Not just a new car, a Lexus RX300. Among others, I had her review the Toyota Highlander. She liked the Highlander. It was several $$$ less expensive than the RX. I told her that the High and the RX were essentially the same car. She smiled, agreed and noted it would be nice to save the $$$. And ultimately, of course, the High came in second in a field of one.

    She continues to love her '02 RX and still does not want a new car (come 2011 or 2012, watch out, though...She's mumbling "Porsche" though to be honest if I bought an old Toyota MR2, slapped a Porsche badge on it she would never know the diff. In fact, she wouldn't know what a MR2 is either!). As I've oft posted, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets" as well as "A happy wife equals a happy life!"

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    As I've oft posted, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets" as well as "A happy wife equals a happy life!"

    Ain't that the truth. That about sums it up. :)

    Your Highlander-RX example is sort of what am thinking re: the Honda Accord. It is probably the best bang for the buck without a doubt and probably the "smartest" choice. After being stuck in a lease on something we have grown to dislike greatly, neither of us want to "settle" on something that is just "ok," and end up 18 months later trading again. Been there, done that too many times. I would like to get out of that cycle.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I finally got the chance to see the new TL up close and in person. If it looks better in the flesh v. in photos, the difference is inperceptable. In fact, IMO the interior looks less attractive then in the photos, although they only had the black interior at the dealer and I hate black interiors. Overall, my initial impressions were confirmed --- the car looks big & slab-sided, there is a lot of Camry/ES350 in the profile, and it has an Ellen Barkin nose (but unfortunately not her rear!). The prominent grill is acceptable if the body colour is a light colour, such as silver, but a dark body colour really accentuates the big schnoze. The standard 17" wheels/tires look puny, leaving way too much room in the wheelwell. They didn't have one with the 18" wheels so maybe that would make the car look much better. The only pleasant surprise is the MSRPs --- both the base and Tech FWD sticker for less than the '08, if I'm not mistaken. (Of course, the '08 has tons of cash incentives).

    We saw all the '09s there including the Canada-only CSX, which now also has the corporate plenum grill. The MDX looks the best with that grill, and sadly, the TL looks the worst with it.
  • strokeoluck2strokeoluck2 Member Posts: 91
    Saw the new pics. Upon seeing them I said to my wife of my '05 TL, "well, looks like I got the last good TL model". Also told her that the new one reminds me of Clark Griswolds' station wagon in "Family Vacation". I do have to give credit to Honda/Acura for being bold in their design, but dear Lord...this is God-awful-ugly! I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm certain that they'll move some units. But upon seeing this new model, I feel even more strongly that my '05 has gorgeous lines. To this day, after washing the car and shining up the tires, I stand for an extra 5-10 seconds in the garage staring at my car. Slightly pathetic and childish I realize (I'm really not even materialistic), but it's one of my few indulgences. I'm trying to take good care of the car so I can hang on to it for a long time. After viewing the '09 pictures it looks like I'll be keeping my '05 for at least another 4-5 years, until they make another model change.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "I stand for an extra 5-10 seconds..."

    Only 5-10 seconds? Not at least 5-10 minutes?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,726
    Fear not, Lucky. Not pathetic nor childish, rather pride of ownership! Not to mention enjoying a thing of beauty. That is a joy forever. I pretty much do the same...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Yeah, well, too much solitary time "enjoying" your "thing of beauty" and you might get the evil eye from the Evil Wife. :( :P
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    The TL makes the Mazda 6 look as if it has been out for more than two years.
    As for the Hyundai (I will keep on saying this) nothing comes out of that stable with an original design.Genesis = S550 want to be.

    My .02 cents
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "The TL makes the Mazda 6 look as if it has been out for more than two years."

    I think you got that backwards --- speaking strictly on the exterior design, as I have not seen the Mazda's interior.

    "....nothing comes out of that stable with an original design"

    You will no doubt recall that was (and maybe still is) the way the Japanese brands rose to prominence. Everybody copies from somebody to a certain degree. The key is not whether you copy, but rather whether you can pull it off and even improve on it.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    I think you got that backwards --- speaking strictly on the exterior design, as I have not seen the Mazda's interior.

    Absolutely not- The Mazda does not strike you as the TL does, looking at the Mazda one would probably say, I have seen that or something close to it before.

    I am not putting down Mazda because I owned one straight out of college back in 99-it was their Millennia (now that was beauty).

    As for Hyundai, I dont even want to debate that because I have not even the slightest interest there (please note that this is not a bias remark).
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The TL strikes me alright, just not in a positive way. Again, just styling-wise.

    You may not be interested in the Hyundai, but that doesn't mean it's not a good product. To each his own.
  • billyperks2billyperks2 Member Posts: 378
    To each his own.

    Yeah, I think so too.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,726
    I doubt that the EW is jealous of my little menage-a-trois: Myself, my TL and Zaino!

    As long as I pay the bills and buy her shiny things regularly, she is quite content... ;)

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    There is a Zaino support group around here somewhere... :P
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,726
    My only problem regarding Zaino, given the economy and my affinity for the stock market, is that I can no longer afford it! :cry:

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Seriously, not to hijack the thread but my 403 (b) is tanking! I asked my advisor what to do and of course he said don't panic, your a relatively young guy and you'll just buy more stock at a cheaper price and when the market goes up again like it always does, you'll be that much better off. My question is that if some companies stock goes so low that they go under, I'll own shares that are worthless? :cry:
  • strokeoluck2strokeoluck2 Member Posts: 91
    People straight-line optimism, and they straight-line pessimism. Your advisor is right. Dollar cost average and buy like crazy at these levels.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Dollar cost average and buy like crazy at these levels.

    I'm not sure you came to the right place for financial advice. And the "buy like crazy" suggestion is, IMO, worth about what you paid for it. I was just at lunch with an executive from one of the largest financial services companies in the world. His take is that there are several more shoes to drop before this mess is even close to over. We haven't seen hardly any commercial mortgage defaults....yet. There are probably some good stocks to buy now, but there are also some that could be lethal. I myself am getting hammered on Wachovia which looked like a screaming deal when it went from 60 to 20. Unfortunately on it's way to 6 - and only 6 because Wells Fargo beat out Citibank to keep it from being worth NOTHING.

    My advice - find someone as passionate about stocks as I am about manual transmissions. And then get their advice.
  • lax29lax29 Member Posts: 42
    Have to agree with you. The 09 TL looks much better in person. Personally, I think the grill will start to grow on you as you see more of them out there. Have not driven one yet, but plan on it this week. But, as an owner of a 04 Tl, can't imagine it's not a nice ride. Worried that once I drive it, it will seal the deal. Just not willing to pay full sticker price yet. That's the only obstacle to overcome.

    Does anyone else have insight to when they will start discounting them?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,726
    "Does anyone else have insight to when they will start discounting them?"

    Of course. When supply is greater than demand...!

    I had no problem buying an '05 TL during Xmas week in '04 at invoice. Didn't want a first model year TL (or any car, first model year).

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • lax29lax29 Member Posts: 42
    I have heard many people say the same thing. But, I bought the 04 when it first came out and never had one problem with it. Even all the talk about the bass rattling, never had it. Though, I did have a 08 loaner while my car was getting serviced and did notice the bass rattling. Tried to turn the bass down and made a slight difference. Guess that I have a lot of confidence in Acura. Probably would not say that about many other companies.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I'm guessing you meant to say you have to disagree with me.

    I tried to keep an open mind, but the versions we saw just weren't attractive ..... big, bulky, big schnoz (I don't want that to grow on me any further :P ), undersized wheels. Just did not look sharp or sporty. Maybe the SH-AWD version with 18" wheel would look better. Have to wait and see. But as of now, if I didn't have a car and was in the market for a family-size sedan, a fully-loaded Accord EX-V6 with the cylinder de-activation would rank ahead of the TL on my list. And not only because it is less expensive, but I think it actually looks better, more cohesive. The TL is a prime example of styling by committee ---- a mishmesh of ideas and cliches.
  • traumeritraumeri Member Posts: 32
    I don't think first model year is inherently bad especially coming from a quality company. Major updates are usually 2-3 years into the model anyway and don't forsee any tremendous changes 2010 other than the 6MT. That being said I'm weary Honda will finally come out with their 6AT in 2011 or 2012 but don't think I can wait that long. Other features TL lacks this year compared to competition (335, A4, G35, IS350) = adaptive headlights, lane departure warning, sunshades, and probably a few more things. IMHO these features are not deal-breakers.

    I would like to see a tighter turning radius, reduced weight, better fuel economy but these features won't change within the same generation.

    Also, anybody know why Acura changed the SHAWD highway EPA from 24 to 25? Perhaps it is 24.5? Anyway, I've found I exceed EPA for highway travel but just curious what people's takes are?
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "Other features TL lacks this year compared to competition (335, A4, G35, IS350)...."

    Don't forget size, although that's actually something the TL has too much of, compared to those other models. The TL is a land yacht next to those,
  • lax29lax29 Member Posts: 42
    This is the first time I have heard of Zaino. Is it that good of a product. Usually use the Maguires products.

    Looked it up and seems like it is a multi stage process. Do I really need to use it in stages? Currently do not have swirl marks and paint looks good, but I do take pretty good care of my cars. Have the red/burgundy color. Open to suggestions.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,726
    Visit zainostore.com for a bunch of info. I like the stuff, gives a great "mirror" shine and lasts quite a long time. It is not cheap, unlike me... but a little goes a long way.

    The number of products has grown a bit in the last few years, so different products, different application steps. But I do mix ZFX with Z2 or Z5 and Z6 in between coats (as well as Z7 wash). So, I multi-step. Not difficult to apply/remove, but it is a bit time consuming. To me, worth it especially for a darker blue color like my Abyss Blue TL.

    The '09 continues, in pix, to not grow on me. I'm fairly sure that the can-opener beak shall not grow on me... What a shame... Still, hope it sells well!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    The 09 TL looks much better in person. Personally, I think the grill will start to grow on you as you see more of them out there. Have not driven one yet, but plan on it this week. But, as an owner of a 04 Tl, can't imagine it's not a nice ride.

    I have an 04 TL, wife has an 07 TL. We were both at Acura dealer yesterday for servicing. Spoke to a sales guy and he having to be positive about style of entire car offered that front grille probably will not hold up well and will show scratches and other marks with time. He said that he liked the front end of TSX over the TL and also said that TSX would get a V6 next year.

    The car looks bloated compared to the 04-08 generation that was trim and athletic looking. With extra size and weight, would be surprised if handling/performance of 09 even matches 04-08.

    Hoping R&T does a road test on 09. Will look especially at slalom speed, in that is a key measure of a car's dexterity and agility.

    I nor wife would not consider buying the 09 TL because of styling/size. Fortunately, do not need replacements for awhile yet. Perhaps Acura headqtrs will get feedback on weird front styling of 09 and will at least make some adjustments in coming years of this generation car.

    Acura clearly goofed up on making a larger size car. The 04-08 was perfect size per my perspective and was actually downsized from previous gen 99-03 gen TL.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    My wife and son also gave the new TL their collective 4 thumbs down (it would have been more but they only had 4 thumbs!). Both of them also thought the TSX's front end is more attractive. The RL's is also more attractive, for that matter.

    I can't say Acura goofed, per se, on making a larger car. The design die was cast years ago, well before any signs of financial meltdown and high gas prices. They just got caught with their pants down just like most other manufacturers.
  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    Granted, the new styling is controversial. Current TL owners and enthusiasts might be put off by the increased size as well. However, there are tons of folks that are (reluctantly) coming out of SUV's that may appreciate the larger size of the TL. Personally, I am glad that the TL and the Accord have grown. YMMV.
  • lax29lax29 Member Posts: 42
    I seem to remember that everyone thought the grill on the new MDX was too extreme also. But I don't seem to hear about that anymore.

    Don't get me wrong, not defending the grill on the 09 TL. It's certainly not my favorite thing about the car.

    The only thing I liked about the size was the rear leg room seemed to be capable of seating adults without me having to adjust the driver seat. Measured my garage and would have to get rid of the shelving in order to fit it in. Would not be happy about that if I do decide on the purchase.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    If you search the forums on "zaino," you'll find a longstanding discussion related to their products.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The gain in interior passenger and cargo space is not proportionate with increased exterior bulk though.

    And if Honda had the former SUV folks in mind, wouldn't it have been better off coming out with a wagon version, if not in the TL line, at least for the Accord. I would imagine a wagon, rather than a sedan, would be a more natural migration path from a SUV owner looking to lower his gas bill.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I thought such a search would lead you to 116 pages of posts on Zaino from "laurasdada". :P :P
  • traindrivertraindriver Member Posts: 328
    The gain in interior passenger and cargo space is not proportionate with increased exterior bulk though.

    I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that the additional bulk is in the front/rear overhang or "fender bulge"....a bigger "footprint"? If not in the passenger compartment or trunk space, then how is it that a car gains "bulk?"

    I would imagine a wagon, rather than a sedan, would be a more natural migration path from a SUV owner looking to lower his gas bill.

    Right or wrong, that wasn't what SUVs were all about. Most SUV owners wouldn't be caught dead in a station wagon or minivan.
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