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Do this mean that dealers will continue to ask sticker or that Acura corporate won't provide any dealer cash? Or is this a dealer by dealer scenario?
Basically my question is after a new car is introduced when will I be able to purchase it at invoice +?
thanks
Depends on consumer response. If no one buys, it'll drop to invoice pretty darn quick.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, but what should one do if 99% of my driving activity consists of "5 minute hops?" The supermarket, bank, church, school, and work are all "5 minute hops" for us. It could be weeks before one of my cars takes a 10+ mile trip before the engine is shut down. Suggestions for break in?
And your situation is one of the "marketing" reasons why you don't see the recommendation in most owner's manuals. Again, short hops are not going to produce any immediate problems, but avoiding them would be percieved as an inconvenience or red flag to potential purchasers. Nevertheless, for the reasons stated previously, it is a good break in practice.
One thing I have done is to try to schedule a longer road trip or two after taking delivery. The other option is to do your best to combine short hops - e.g. having a passenger in the car with the engine idleing while you grab that gallon of milk. Or just take the scenic roads to school and use that "quality time" time to ask your kids how how they are doing in nonlinear differential equations or cell biology. It has never been too tough for me to turn a 5 minute hop into a 15 minute drive, at least for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gas.
Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work.
Again, short hops are not going to produce any immediate problems
That's what I thought. It's not like I have ever kept the same car for 60k miles or more anyway.
It has never been too tough for me to turn a 5 minute hop into a 15 minute drive, at least for the first 2-3 tankfuls of gas.
True, if 2-3 tankfuls are sufficient, I'll be just fine. I will be excited enough to have a new toy and will not mind taking a few Sunday afternoon drives.
Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?Now, not to question you, but if 99% of your driving consists of 5 minute hops, isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)? Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work. Seems like that is exactly what an Accord or Camry hybrid is made for - and they suffer a lot less engine wear from that kind of driving thanks to the electic motor doing much of the stop and go work.
Probably so. If I were buying today, it would be a tough choice to decide between an 09 Maxima and a 09 TL. I have never been particularly interested in a hybrid due to the additional purchase cost premium and the potential for extra maintenance costs. I don't see an economic advantage there for me. All of the data I have seen suggests that you have to drive a lot of miles and keep the car a long time to come out ahead. We tend to buy what appeals to us visually and what is in our price range, otherwise we, as most people, could get by in a Civic, Corolla, or Focus just fine.
isn't a 2009 TL a bit of a waste (in gas and performance)?
Beats the heck out of the 2006 Jeep Commander that it would replace.
Have you seen the majority of drivers of high-end MB M-class, BMW X5, Cayenne, etc, and what they do? Women dropping off and picking up kids from school, dance classes, piano lessons, etc.
If one can afford the car, who's to question whether his/her use justifies the cost? He/she can use it for a planter, if so desired.
Spoken like the great engineer I/m sure you are. From the marketing perspective, almost all products are purchased primarily for subjective reasons. The accord/camry can't deliver that intangible satisfaction a "luxury" car (Acura) provides. The product choices most of us make are emotional as well as rational.
Sigmund. Freud
Director of Mrketing
Don't count on it. My 2004 TL 6-speed returns 30+ mpg on the highway, but barely manages 15-16 mpg in the kind of short hop driving you are describing.
Not to throw out another option, but the E320 Bluetech that my marketing director owns never gets less than 25 mpg in the city. And with the incentives being offered by Mercedes, can be bought for under $45k, not that much more than a TL selling at MSRP.
True, 15-16 is nothing to get excited about but when I scroll through the Jeep's information center, it consistently reports 11-12 mpg after a couple weeks worth of around town driving. 17-18 or so is what it reports on interstate trips at 75-80 mph. (I have no idea how accurate these onboard systems are though fwiw.)
The MB is a nice choice but the mid 40k range is getting a little ritzy for me. Can I make the payment on time - yes, but am I comfortable with it? probably not. I don't want to get used to a high end vehicle and later have to step back a notch if my budget tightens.
not that much more than a TL selling at MSRP.
It will be next August before I purchase. I don't expect it to be selling at MSRP at that point. Quite a few Acura owners/enthusiasts seem to be put off by the new styling; if this translates in to less sales I expect there will be deals to be had. I wasn't crazy about the 09 Maxima at first sight but it has grown on me greatly to where it is #1 or 2 on the list. We'll see what happens....
I respectfully suggest you test drive the new Maxima, if you haven't already done so. I did back in July when I had my 1995 Maxima in for service. Some people think a rubber band CVT is the best transmission in the world. I am of the camp that would like to send the inventor to Siberia. Granted, I am a manual transmission person, but the CVT is about as diametrically opposed to "sport" as Rosie O'Donnel is to Donald Trump. I'd take a TL, even an automatic version, in a hearbeat before the Maxima - and that's in spite of thinking that my 1995, with 155k miles ia arguably the best long term car I have ever owned.
No, I have NOT driven either the Maxima or the TL. Since I will not be ready to buy until late next summer, there's not much point in wasting a salespersons time (or mine) at this point. I have never driven or ridden in a CVT car, so I can't comment on the plusses or minuses of the CVT. I like the max from what I see visually; whether I like the CVT or not will be the primary thing I will focus on when I actually have the opportunity to drive one. (the thought has already occurred to me that I might want to see if an Altima or Max with the cvt is available to rent so that I might be able to spend an extended time test driving one)
I know you are NOT a fan of the maxima from your posts in other places. The Max and the TL are what excites the wife at the current moment and, as this will be her car, I will submit to whatever strikes her fancy. She is looking at this as her car to "wear" and whether the max is a true "4DSC" is not even in her realm of thinking. A year is an eternity in the car world and what she is attracted to may change, once again, in the months between now and next summer depending not necessarily on common sense but whatever "flicks her Bic". Until then, I will lurk on "prices paid" forums, etc. so I will have a feel for what the market and consensus is on the models in question.
I've made the mistake of pushing her into a car that she wasn't gung-ho on before and have learned the hard way to let my preferences stay on the back burner. She has expressed interest from time to time on the Acadia, 5 series, TL, Maxima and the Accord to name a few. Clearly, that's a wide range of choices in function as well as msrp. Right now its between the TL and the Max. I, personally, would add to that the Genesis, Passat, 3 series, G35, M35, ES 300?, Avalon, G8, CTS and some others that I am forgetting at the moment --- but again, the wife has vetoed those choices for one reason or another. (women: :confuse: :sick: :shades: )
She continues to love her '02 RX and still does not want a new car (come 2011 or 2012, watch out, though...She's mumbling "Porsche" though to be honest if I bought an old Toyota MR2, slapped a Porsche badge on it she would never know the diff. In fact, she wouldn't know what a MR2 is either!). As I've oft posted, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets" as well as "A happy wife equals a happy life!"
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Ain't that the truth. That about sums it up.
Your Highlander-RX example is sort of what am thinking re: the Honda Accord. It is probably the best bang for the buck without a doubt and probably the "smartest" choice. After being stuck in a lease on something we have grown to dislike greatly, neither of us want to "settle" on something that is just "ok," and end up 18 months later trading again. Been there, done that too many times. I would like to get out of that cycle.
We saw all the '09s there including the Canada-only CSX, which now also has the corporate plenum grill. The MDX looks the best with that grill, and sadly, the TL looks the worst with it.
Only 5-10 seconds? Not at least 5-10 minutes?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
As for the Hyundai (I will keep on saying this) nothing comes out of that stable with an original design.Genesis = S550 want to be.
My .02 cents
I think you got that backwards --- speaking strictly on the exterior design, as I have not seen the Mazda's interior.
"....nothing comes out of that stable with an original design"
You will no doubt recall that was (and maybe still is) the way the Japanese brands rose to prominence. Everybody copies from somebody to a certain degree. The key is not whether you copy, but rather whether you can pull it off and even improve on it.
Absolutely not- The Mazda does not strike you as the TL does, looking at the Mazda one would probably say, I have seen that or something close to it before.
I am not putting down Mazda because I owned one straight out of college back in 99-it was their Millennia (now that was beauty).
As for Hyundai, I dont even want to debate that because I have not even the slightest interest there (please note that this is not a bias remark).
You may not be interested in the Hyundai, but that doesn't mean it's not a good product. To each his own.
Yeah, I think so too.
As long as I pay the bills and buy her shiny things regularly, she is quite content...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I'm not sure you came to the right place for financial advice. And the "buy like crazy" suggestion is, IMO, worth about what you paid for it. I was just at lunch with an executive from one of the largest financial services companies in the world. His take is that there are several more shoes to drop before this mess is even close to over. We haven't seen hardly any commercial mortgage defaults....yet. There are probably some good stocks to buy now, but there are also some that could be lethal. I myself am getting hammered on Wachovia which looked like a screaming deal when it went from 60 to 20. Unfortunately on it's way to 6 - and only 6 because Wells Fargo beat out Citibank to keep it from being worth NOTHING.
My advice - find someone as passionate about stocks as I am about manual transmissions. And then get their advice.
Does anyone else have insight to when they will start discounting them?
Of course. When supply is greater than demand...!
I had no problem buying an '05 TL during Xmas week in '04 at invoice. Didn't want a first model year TL (or any car, first model year).
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I tried to keep an open mind, but the versions we saw just weren't attractive ..... big, bulky, big schnoz (I don't want that to grow on me any further :P ), undersized wheels. Just did not look sharp or sporty. Maybe the SH-AWD version with 18" wheel would look better. Have to wait and see. But as of now, if I didn't have a car and was in the market for a family-size sedan, a fully-loaded Accord EX-V6 with the cylinder de-activation would rank ahead of the TL on my list. And not only because it is less expensive, but I think it actually looks better, more cohesive. The TL is a prime example of styling by committee ---- a mishmesh of ideas and cliches.
I would like to see a tighter turning radius, reduced weight, better fuel economy but these features won't change within the same generation.
Also, anybody know why Acura changed the SHAWD highway EPA from 24 to 25? Perhaps it is 24.5? Anyway, I've found I exceed EPA for highway travel but just curious what people's takes are?
Don't forget size, although that's actually something the TL has too much of, compared to those other models. The TL is a land yacht next to those,
Looked it up and seems like it is a multi stage process. Do I really need to use it in stages? Currently do not have swirl marks and paint looks good, but I do take pretty good care of my cars. Have the red/burgundy color. Open to suggestions.
The number of products has grown a bit in the last few years, so different products, different application steps. But I do mix ZFX with Z2 or Z5 and Z6 in between coats (as well as Z7 wash). So, I multi-step. Not difficult to apply/remove, but it is a bit time consuming. To me, worth it especially for a darker blue color like my Abyss Blue TL.
The '09 continues, in pix, to not grow on me. I'm fairly sure that the can-opener beak shall not grow on me... What a shame... Still, hope it sells well!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I have an 04 TL, wife has an 07 TL. We were both at Acura dealer yesterday for servicing. Spoke to a sales guy and he having to be positive about style of entire car offered that front grille probably will not hold up well and will show scratches and other marks with time. He said that he liked the front end of TSX over the TL and also said that TSX would get a V6 next year.
The car looks bloated compared to the 04-08 generation that was trim and athletic looking. With extra size and weight, would be surprised if handling/performance of 09 even matches 04-08.
Hoping R&T does a road test on 09. Will look especially at slalom speed, in that is a key measure of a car's dexterity and agility.
I nor wife would not consider buying the 09 TL because of styling/size. Fortunately, do not need replacements for awhile yet. Perhaps Acura headqtrs will get feedback on weird front styling of 09 and will at least make some adjustments in coming years of this generation car.
Acura clearly goofed up on making a larger size car. The 04-08 was perfect size per my perspective and was actually downsized from previous gen 99-03 gen TL.
I can't say Acura goofed, per se, on making a larger car. The design die was cast years ago, well before any signs of financial meltdown and high gas prices. They just got caught with their pants down just like most other manufacturers.
Don't get me wrong, not defending the grill on the 09 TL. It's certainly not my favorite thing about the car.
The only thing I liked about the size was the rear leg room seemed to be capable of seating adults without me having to adjust the driver seat. Measured my garage and would have to get rid of the shelving in order to fit it in. Would not be happy about that if I do decide on the purchase.
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And if Honda had the former SUV folks in mind, wouldn't it have been better off coming out with a wagon version, if not in the TL line, at least for the Accord. I would imagine a wagon, rather than a sedan, would be a more natural migration path from a SUV owner looking to lower his gas bill.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that the additional bulk is in the front/rear overhang or "fender bulge"....a bigger "footprint"? If not in the passenger compartment or trunk space, then how is it that a car gains "bulk?"
I would imagine a wagon, rather than a sedan, would be a more natural migration path from a SUV owner looking to lower his gas bill.
Right or wrong, that wasn't what SUVs were all about. Most SUV owners wouldn't be caught dead in a station wagon or minivan.